I'm asking you to make a moral judgement

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• 1 - Eric Olsen

  Nov 08, 2004 at 7:29 pm

  It's chickenshit, and the amendment is a stupid, destructive, pointless idea - at least Cheney had the balls to say he isn't for it. He has a lesbian daughter, you know?

• 2 - Natalie Davis

  Nov 08, 2004 at 8:06 pm

  HAD the balls. During the campaign, he FLIPFLOPPED and changed his public opinion to match the squatter's. If I were Mary Cheney, I would disown him.

• 3 - Natalie Davis

  Nov 08, 2004 at 8:32 pm

  Supporting/clarifying data from the wrong wing:
  
  

  When asked by moderator Gwen Ifill of the Public Broadcasting System about the marriage amendment issue, Cheney reiterated a view expressed four years ago that people should be free "to choose any arrangement they want" but states should be the level of government at which relationships are authorized or not. "States have regulated marriage, if you will," he said. "That would be my preference."
  
  Recently, however, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court has directed the state legislature "to allow gay marriage," Cheney said. "And the fact is that the president felt that it was important to make it clear that that's the wrong way to go, as far as he's concerned. Now, he sets policy for this administration, and I support the president."

  
  
  BP News (Southern Baptist Church)
  
  from another right-wing source:
  
  

  Vice President Dick Cheney says he is backing President George W. Bush's call for a federal amendment to ban homosexual marriage, even though Cheney has opposed such calls in the past.
  
  During the 2000 campaign and again last month, Cheney said he felt the issue of whether or not to legalize same-sex marriages should be left to the states. However, in an interview with MSNBC, Cheney recently said Bush has taken a "clear position" on the issue, and he supports the president."

  
  
  Crosswalk.com
  
  More than he supports his own child. Great.
  
  Was his support for the FMA "tepid," as BP News describes it? Absolutely, it appears. I wouldn't call Cheney a flagbearer for the FMA. But he chose to stifle his own (inadequate, inhumane, inane states' rights and DOMA-supporting) view in order to support the "president." And since the insurrection of Nov. 2, he has crowed about pursuing a conservative agenda which includes trying again with FMA. He seems to be a better soldier than he is a parent or a human being. Pitiful.

• 4 - Eric Olsen

  Nov 08, 2004 at 8:53 pm

  Nat, I can't argue with any of that, but at least at the debate he made a point of saying he personally had a different view from the president, although his job was to support the administration's position. AT least he said that, something he didn't have to do. I give him some credit, anyway.

• 5 - Natalie Davis

  Nov 08, 2004 at 9:31 pm

  Given that I find his own view disgusting, unamerican, and immoral, I can't give him any credit. Bully for him, he mentioned it -- and then said he would stand by the Shrub. If he had any backbone he would have resigned after his "boss" pimped legislation that would harm his child. But of course, Cheney supports DOMA, which hurts his child.
  
  I'm getting horrid chills just thinking about that sneering so-and-so.

• 6 - P6

  Nov 09, 2004 at 12:24 am

  Eric:
  
  What's more important: what a person says or what they actually do?
  

• 7 - Mac Diva

  Nov 09, 2004 at 1:59 am

  You are asking the wrong person, P6. Eric can't even bring himself to enforce the rules he made for this site when his friends break them. His 'wiggle out of this' machinations would put Dick Cheney to shame.

• 8 - Ricky

  Nov 09, 2004 at 6:00 am

  "I find his own view disgusting, unamerican"
  
  Haven't you emigrated from "Amerikkka" yet, ND?

• 9 - Ralph

  Nov 09, 2004 at 6:01 am

  "Eric can't even bring himself to enforce the rules he made for this site"
  
  I agree. Why haven't you been banned yet?

• 10 - Eric Olsen

  Nov 09, 2004 at 8:10 am

  Mac, your ability to ignore the ripe irony of many of your statements is rather breathtaking.
  
  Nat and P6, I am not comfortable being in the position of "defending" the administration in any regard on the subject of gay marriage - my own position is the exact opposite of theirs, as I have stated many times.
  
  However, to answer the question, words ARE actions in a political sense, and the fact that Cheney did voice his own personal disagreement with the administration's view does have the real effect of indicating that the administration is not a monolith, that memebers of it DO have varying opinions on matters of policy, and that he felt it was important enough to mention. I will defend Cheney on this no further, but I do think this variation from the party line bears mentioning.

• 11 - P6

  Nov 09, 2004 at 10:00 am

  I never intended the discussion to be about Cheney. Didn't mention him at all.
  
  I was talking about how chickenshit it is to do exactly what you accuse your opponent of. Even were I not already convinced to distrust President Bush this is pretty objective support.
  
  And frankly, I wonder why no one on the right is disturbed by it.
  
  Even if I assume a golden heart on his part, the best understanding I can get from his actions is he's constantly pursuing something other than he says he is. And I distrust those who constantly hide their intent.
  

• 12 - Eric Olsen

  Nov 09, 2004 at 1:19 pm

  as I said in #1, it IS chickenshit nad political pandering

• 13 - Hal Pawluk

  Nov 09, 2004 at 1:52 pm

  Cheye had the balls to say, but not the moral courage to oppose it.
  

• 14 - Eric Olsen

  Nov 09, 2004 at 2:27 pm

  that's the vice part of Vice President

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