All five of the workers had been with the company for several years. One of them had worked for Texas French Bread for over a decade. All of them had families with children living here in the United States, entirely in the open and not part of some sort of underground conspiracy. They all appear to have been functional English speakers.
In the aftermath of the raid, the bakery has had trouble finding skilled workers to replace the deported immigrants, and the owner has had to work in the kitchen until replacements can be found.
So what we're talking about here are not some day-laborer vagrants you can pick up at Home Depot. They're solid, lower and lower-middle income skilled workers. They're fully contributing members of the community, earning wages, paying taxes, spending money and taking nothing from the government or society that they haven't earned. In short, they're just like the rest of us, but for one difference - that armed men were able to legally come and take them from their homes and jobs and send them to Mexico with no notice, minimal evidence, and none of the legal protections the rest of us enjoy.
Texas French Bread owner Murph Wilcott expressed his own dismay and the concerns of the community when he commented:
"These people paid taxes. They worked like crazy. The people that they took away hadn't done anything wrong...It's violent what they did. They came and raped my business."
He raises the point that's often overlooked in the debate over illegal immigration. The truth is that most of these illegal immigrants don't come here to cause trouble or commit crimes or take advantage of the system. Most of them come here, get jobs and work just like any other American. As was the case with the five taken in this raid, they were indistinguishable from their native co-workers, just workers filling a need and supporting their families.
Many other illegals fall into this same category of working under forged papers and bogus Social Security Numbers, and it raises an interesting question. The nativist crowd moans and rants about illegals taking social and medical services without paying into the system in any way. But these workers and others like them paid into all of our various tax-based programs and would likely never receive services of value equal to their contribution to those systems. They'd certainly never see any of the money they paid into social security again, which raises the interesting issue of how much the floundering social security system depends on the contributions of illegals who will never draw benefits from it, because the payments go to a number that doesn't really exist. A quick calculation suggests that even if only half of the illegal immigrants pay taxes, they basically donate $7.5 billion a year to the system to help underwrite everyone else's costs. Can Social Security afford to lose that money?
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Arch Conservative
Yeah Dave 7.5 billion into social security and probably 2-3 times that out in healthcare costs. Sounds great!
I hope this thread doesn't turn into another "oh they're such hard workers" and "they contribute so much to the economy" bullshit rant.
They're here illegally and they cost this nation more than they give to it.
End of of story.
2 - gonzo marx
well now, another case of cherry picking a single anecdotal incident and extrapolating it into a false postulate to bolster anunproven assumtion
actually, if i have read the bill correctly, the owner of the business is in the clear since they provided documentation...
the illegals, if holding false documentation, are now felons, (forgery) and are subject to either immediate deportation and/or federal pennitentiary time
now...whose social security numbers were being used? are there victims of identity theft involved here? or are the documents from dead people, this can make a bit of difference in the case.
but, either way...the operative word here is "illegal"
look it up sometime
Excelsior?
3 - Maurice
Amen gonzo.
I always think of the many people that I work with (scientists/engineers) that are patiently working their way through the system to become legal citizens.
4 - greenmill
"The lowest paid was receiving $9.50 an hour and the highest paid was working as a store manager, a salaried job paying about $30,000 a year."
These must be the jobs nobody else wants that I keep hearing about.
5 - Monica
That was a great article and everything is TRUE
6 - trouble
It is a terrible thing when the consequences of ones own decisions, such as coming here illegally come home to roost. Now these people are going to have to pay the price for having done that. A tough life for a family trying to make it.
It seems today that we live in a world where personal responsibility should have no consequence. Big Daddy (Government) should fix everything for me. I think middle America is about to tell Big Daddy to lay down the crack pipe of socialism and get the hell off our backs.
The moral to this story is to think about the actions you are about to take. It may be difficult where you are now but robbing a bank will only fix your problems until justice finds you.
Trouble
7 - Eric Berlin
Nice piece, Dave, that puts a human and reality-based face on an issue that is too often drawn into meaningless generalities.
8 - Tom
Dave. Could you be any more of an Open Borders advocate. These jobs paid well enough they could and should have gone to Americans citizens. Hopefully the owner gave the manager health insurance but I bet the 9.50/hr. workers were not. So every time they have a heath concern, you and I pay for there medical bills. Just as much as many on the anti-illegal immigrant side are bias and fail to mention the possible benefits of hard working illegals in this country, people like you fail to mention the massive burden they produce as well. Oh and yes with fraudulent documents they committed a felony. If the SS# was somebody else's, that is identity theft. The credit history of thousands of Americans have been ruined because of this. We, as American citizens would go to jail for that. Under Hagel/Martinez all crimes of that nature are forgiven. In other words, AMNESTY. Is that OK? Putting a human face on the crisis does not negate the need for justice.
9 - Dave Nalle
Dave. Could you be any more of an Open Borders advocate.
Sure. As a libertarian I could go with the official LP policy and actually endorse a full open borders policy.
These jobs paid well enough they could and should have gone to Americans citizens.
In Austin we have enough of a labor shortage that I imagine the business owner will have a hard time finding anyone to replace these workers.
Hopefully the owner gave the manager health insurance but I bet the 9.50/hr. workers were not. So every time they have a heath concern, you and I pay for there medical bills.
Did you not read the article? The point here is that these workers paid into Medicaid and SS, so they were as vested in that system as any native born worker and just as entitled to state subsidized medical care as anyone else who couldn't afford insurance.
Just as much as many on the anti-illegal immigrant side are bias and fail to mention the possible benefits of hard working illegals in this country, people like you fail to mention the massive burden they produce as well.
The point you miss is that these workers aren''t producing a burden that any other worker at the same wage wouldn't be just as responsible for. What's more, since there are millions of workers paying into the system with no claim on benefits, rather than being a drain on the system they are actually contributing more than they could possibly consume.
Hell, I even soft-pedaled that issue by only looking at social security. Each of those workers also paid 20% of their wages to the IRS as witholding and unlike the rest of us they would have been unable to file a tax return and therefore never got ANY of that 20% of their income back in a refund.
Let's do the math on that. Let's say half the immigrants are earning $10 an hour on average and not getting their income tax refund. That's $25 billion going into the coffers of the IRS and not coming out of your and my pockets. Adding Medicare, Social Security and witholding we're probably talking a total of close to $40 billion from illegals that they can never get back. That's $3300 per illegal per year - including the ones paid in cash - to cover state services and medical expenses. That's more than many of us pay for insurance, and more than most states pay per capita in social services.
Burden on society my ass.
Oh and yes with fraudulent documents they committed a felony. If the SS# was somebody else's, that is identity theft. The credit history of thousands of Americans have been ruined because of this. We, as American citizens would go to jail for that.
Bullshit. They weren't taking out credit cards in other peoples names or ruining their credit histories. They'd get caught quickly if that were the case, because it would raise their profile high enough that some government agency would take an interest.
Under Hagel/Martinez all crimes of that nature are forgiven.
Not the last time I read it. No one has proposed pardonning actual criminals for anything other than the crime of crossing the border illegally.
In other words, AMNESTY. Is that OK? Putting a human face on the crisis does not negate the need for justice.
I agree. Let's apply an appropriate penalty for overpaying into the tax system and working hard and contributing to the community.
Dave
10 - Paul Jordan, Sr.
Due to cetain medical circumstances beyond my wife's control, I now work a second job at a local Florida gas station. One striking thing that I witness every single morning is a great deal of migrant workers pouring in to get water, ice, breakfast, diesel, and start their collective day. No crimes are commited, no near misses, no drive offs from the pumps, simply a group of workers contributing on average, $5000 per day to the guy who pays me.
Furthermore, and again to no fault of my wife or anyone, I make an obscene number of trips to the local emergency room each month, (see "Small Town and Big Time") and I notice each time that the demographics are nearly the same every visit. Approximately 70% Black, 20% elderly White, and 10% Hispanic.
For those who want to argue these stats, I humbly invite you to join me in poverty that forces you to acquire a meaningless job, and to contract a dibilitating disease that renders you incapable of avoiding regular trips to the ER. Other than that, shut up and listen to the likes of me and Dave and thank God you do not have to witness first hand.
11 - Dave Nalle
Good lord, Paul, not more evil anecdotal evidence which exposes these northerners who've never seen a Mexican to the truth of their role in society.
Let me throw out another anecdote. I'm associated with a community group which owns a large facility which we rent out for parties and meetings and especially weddings and quintaneras (look it up). Most of our renters are Mexicans and many, many of them are likely illegals. They pay a great deal to rent the hall for a saturday evening and enormously more for entertainment and decorations and clothing. They pay these bills with money they've earned, and it all goes back into the local community. The money isn't coming from crimes or welfare payments. I've met these people. They're illegals, but in many cases they're economically well into the middle class and they pay their own way.
Dave
12 - Paul Jordan, Sr.
My only true jealousy is that I wish my frame were younger, and I could do their job at their wage as a second income. ( about $5 an hour more than the gas station pays), but reality sets in, and I am glad they patronize the guy who pays me so that I can buy my wife's exorbitantly expensive medications.
13 - Dave Nalle
I've known a couple of people who've started up small businesses which cater specifically to illegal aliens starting out from jobs like yours where they are in contact with them a lot. Not that you're necessarily in a position to do it, but there is a lot of money to be made from services tailored specifically to that market.
Dave
14 - gonzo marx
i just gotta laugh here...
all in all, skirt and dodge, the point is that what we are talking about here are people who have broken the Law and entered the country illegally, if thay have used false or forged documentation they have compounded the isdemeanor with a felony, possibly multiple counts
scream all you want for cheap labor, doesn't change the fact that in 1986 amnesty was granted under the Law with certain provisions to prevent a huge flood of illegals into the country...
the EXACT opposite happened, proving that the policy in place has NOT been enforced and has NOT worked...
here's an idea...enforce the fucking Laws on the books, seal the fucking borders, and THEN debate on what to do with the millions of illegals here
sound like a start?
Excelsior?
15 - Paul Jordan, Sr.
Hey Gonzo,
Just a couple of questions. When is the last time you smoked a joint? When is the last time you left a bar after putting a couple of cold ones down? The Pot need not call the kettle black my friend. Oh, and if you find offense in my assumptions, change your tag, Gonzo says a lot.
16 - Andy Marsh
Holy mackeral!!! Isn't that like a little kid saying...but Joey did it! Why can't I???
What the fuck does smoking a joint have to do with this discussion other than the fact that the pot probably came across the same border that the illegals did?
17 - Clavos
there is a lot of money to be made from services tailored specifically to that market.
I have a friend who does very well selling 'em prepaid phone cards.
And Dave, FWIW those parties are called quinceaneras (literally, fifteen years), the age at which young latin women are presented--an old, old custom--we have them here in South Florida as well.
18 - gonzo marx
yep, it sez a lot about my past, not about where i am...except my style of typing
try again
and even if i was doing both at the moment...that doesn't excuse me from getting busted, and doing time for the crime...does it?
what you are suggesting is allowing people to get away with their crimes...and THAT is the problem
so , no offense taken, but you can shove yer straw man argument and try again cuz it ain't making it
NO ONE is above the Law, otherwise we forfeit our right to live under the Rule of Law...
so...take what i said earlier, any problems enforcing the laws we have already (ie:the 1986 laws), busting the meployers who knowingly hire illegals, busting those that have false documents, sealing the borders to prevent further influx of new illegals as well as for national security, and THEN working out what to do with the millions of illegal aliens already here?
try answering the point rather than attempting to distract...
k?
tnx
Excelsior?
19 - Dave Nalle
i just gotta laugh here...
You can laugh, but you're just feeding the racism and deceit of the anti-immigrant crowd by rejecting rational solutions to this problem.
all in all, skirt and dodge, the point is that what we are talking about here are people who have broken the Law and entered the country illegally, if thay have used false or forged documentation they have compounded the isdemeanor with a felony, possibly multiple counts
Regardless, it's still a relatively trivial crime which does little or no harm and is committed in pursuit of the admirable goal of being a productive part of the US.
here's an idea...enforce the fucking Laws on the books, seal the fucking borders, and THEN debate on what to do with the millions of illegals here
sound like a start?
No, it sounds like an cop-out that doesn't address the reason why they are coming here and therefore will NEVER actually work. It's the jingoistic and lazy answer of people who want to bluster and posture about immigration without really addressing the issue in any but the most simpleminded, knee-jerk way. It's not an actual solution, it's just going to be the source of more problems down the road.
Dave
20 - Paul Jordan, Sr.
If we are to claim the letter of the law, then by God let's claim them all!! What? Because I don't smoke anymore, I can't call Gonzo to the carpet? He just made his case by the letter of his law....
21 - Paul Jordan, Sr.
Lo siento mis amigos, pero tu eres son locos cabezas en todos, muy muy locos...
22 - Andy Marsh
so, if we use your argument then a person that smokes a joint can't argue that a person that commits murder should be punished because what...he's stoned? Supply a urine sample 'cause I don't think you've quit smoking yet!
23 - Maurice
Dave
I accept your point about the mexicans being nice people and wanting to work and not being a burden.
What I don't like is the fact that we have many people working their butts off to become citizens the legal way and these people (the illegals) are diminishing that effort.
PJ #15 2 wrongs don't make a right!
24 - Andy Marsh
Hey Paul - you forgot to press one for english!
25 - Paul Jordan, Sr.
I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and speculate that Andy and Maurice live no less than 500 miles from the Mexican border and therefore have no clue to the topic other than what Fox has told them they need. And yes, for the record and On the record, A person who is in continuom breaking a law has absolutely no business promoting any other law. This is not a pick and choose system folks, if it was I would most certainly not pick and choose your lame drug using arses!!