In Christine Lakatos' recent BC article, "Pro-life House Dems Thrown Under the Bus: 'Stupak Dozen' Stand Firm" she states, as the title suggests, that the socially conservative Dems who will not budge from their anti-abortion position to pass the health care reform bill, are being "thrown under the bus."
They should be thrown under the bus. The anti-abortion group's position is so odious as to be deserving of whatever fate they may face.
The language demanded by Stupak and friends, if adopted, would assure that only those with means can even hope to obtain an abortion. As is typical from social conservatives, it is the poor who must suffer for their (the Cons') sanctimony.
Abortion is health care. It is legal in this country if anyone would take a moment to notice — you know, just like it's legal for all you good, god fearin' folk to walk around packing heat.
So, let's condemn those without means to suffer their indiscretions, or suffer the ignominy of rape, or endanger their own health and lives — forcing them to carry unwanted children to term, so that self-righteous fundamentalists and other tight-assed prigs can thumb their noses and say, "We told you so. You're going to burn in hell, you impecunious whore!"
Health care reform is more than likely going to pass. Dennis Kucinich announced his intention to vote for the bill. I believe others will follow suit. Why? Because the failure of this bill will most assuredly be the death knell for current Dems and probably Obama's presidency. And, that's what it's all about.
The demonizing of the current health care reform bill, as I've said ad nauseam here and elsewhere, has little or nothing to do with health care or even with ideology when considering most congressional Reps. It is political. Nothing more. The Reps and most people residing here at BC of whatever ilk are absolutely soiling their Fruit of the Looms at the prospect of dumping the Dems in November and Obama in 2012 — or what would provide even more of enematic effect would be his early resignation. The country would be awash in the "Red State Runs."
The health care bill is worlds away from being what many of us pro-reformers envisioned a year ago. Reps and weak-kneed Blue Dogs have so watered it down as to render it in many ways unrecognizable, having far fewer teeth than we had hoped.
Nevertheless, it still has a number of good points — and it does not represent a government takeover of our health care system, sad to say.
But, it does represent a starting point, a departure from the unholy status quo. Personally, I'd love to see the profit motive removed from our health care system altogether. But I'm enough of a realist to know that ain't gonna happen; not while I'm drawing breath at any rate.
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
In short, there are a number of positive aspects to this reform bill. Some of the dreck will be excised over time. Not all of it, I'm sure. But enough.
Based on history this is the exact opposite of what will happen. The dreck will stay, more will be added, costs will skyrocket and quality will plunge. Waiting lines, deaths, job losses and business failures. The legacy of this bill will be disaster and political holocaust for the democrats.
Dave
2 - Silas Kain
I don't think we can base anything on history in this mess, Dave. We've devolved into the Idiocracy nation. I am incensed over this textbook controversy and if Texas maintains its position it rings the death knell for public education.
The Health Care debate has so crippled Washington that it has had a profound effect in every department within Federal government. I was appalled at some of the stories I heard this week concerning the frustration of Federal employees who are trying their best to discharge their duties but can't because funding and departmental policies have been put on hold for sake of health care. There are so many agencies who want to do right by the citizens but can't because they survive at the whims of a handful of members of Congress. It's time for a political revolution.
3 - Christine
Personally, I'd love to see the profit motive removed from our health care system altogether.
Then you better throw the doctors ($250 for 15 minutes), hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and reps, and everyone else in the health care system that makes a profit, "under the bus too."
Free medical care for ALL! Even after they eat, drink, smoke, and drug their lazy asses into diabetes, heart attacks, high blood pressure, obesity, etc. (list too long). Take no responsibility: let the government take care of you. Wow, where do I sign up?
4 - jeannie danna
Baritone,
It's good to read you here!
You know I agree with you, so we don't have much to debate about, however we could discus how to get people to see past their own noses and small little lives?
It obnoxious to read the slurs written by commentators that apparently don't have any health care shortage of their own, yet the thought of helping the rest of the country attain affordable or any health care is see as a hand-out, welfare, or crumbs thrown to undeserving lazy people.
The only thing that's undeserving here is to classify an entire nation in this narrow tunnel-minded fashion.
Please come over and read myarticle if you feel up to it, OK? It’s about the right to vote, although it has turned into a verbal war about what else, the health care bill, and definitely it is going to pass!
:)Have a nice day, B
5 - Jordan Richardson
Christine,
Yes, free medical care for all. Imagine that!
And where do you sign up? Well, you can come to Canada for starters.
Do you really propose that people who commit these so-called "health sins" should be simply left to rot in the streets if they can't pay their bill? Do you really want to live in that kind of world, Christine?
Imagine what that would look like.
You conservatives say you hate the nanny state, yet you enforce one by making everyone fall in line with "right living" lest they be left out of the natural care and inclusiveness that a society should generate for its fellows.
Is it really that bad of a thing to take care of one another, regardless of whether we agree with one another's lifestyle choices or not?
6 - jeannie danna
One more comment, B,
Abortion is NOT going to be a wedge issue for the "holier than the rest of us" this time around, so roll your sleeves up because they are still going to cry foul!
I had an Uncle who lost his first love to a back ally abortion in the thirties; I wish it had been legal for her.
7 - jeannie danna
Jordan,
Whenever you talk about health care, I have more reason to fight right along with you.
You give em hell! AY?
Canada, is a country where they have a functioning health care system that’s not taking an entire nation to bankruptcy and where they treat their citizens with more respect than their corporations.
:) GO CANADA!
8 - roger nowosielski
"($250 for 15 minutes)" -MDs
Do you approve or disapprove, hard to figure from your comment. And you're grossly mistaken if you think they're making that much.
For all intents and purposes, MDs may well be on salaries (because the only way to make money in medicine these days is by cheating).
And I don't think you'd encourage that, Christine, would you now?
9 - Baritone
Christine's attitude and perspective is quite typical of many conservatives. They assume that all those less fortunate are just slackers. That attitude was clearly demonstrated overthe last day or two on video of a group of anti-health reformers openly taunting a wheel chair bound fellow with Parkinson's. Good stuff.
Also, the same spirit was often demonstrated during a # of the town hall meetings last summer. These instances may be anecdotal, but I look upon them as symptomatic.
Dave and the Reps predict Armageddon if health care reform passes. The Dems don't. As I noted, things will likely go awry, but the doomsday predictions are at best, overblown.
And again, back to the lovely Christine: Really! Does your scenario hold true in the plethora of countries that have universal health care? Are the Canadians, the Germans, the English, the French, the Aussies - yada, yada, yada... all simply nations of slackers?
I have prejudices and failings as we all do. I am glad, however, that I don't harbour such a dismal view of people as you apparently do, Christine.
B
10 - jeannie danna
B,
I saw the video of that man being attacked in a wheelchair.
It really shows the true nature of those that are so afraid of change that they would stoop this low!
These are most likely some of the same people that are apposed to abortion, because they call it murder, yet they could give a crap about you after you are born!
11 - Dr Dreadful
Christine,
Who do you think should get to decide who ate, drank, couch-potatoed or drugged their way to poor health and who is just unfortunate?
12 - Jet Gardner
That's easy Doc-Jerry Falwell's ghost
13 - Ruvy
the failure of this bill will most assuredly be the death knell for current Dems and probably Obama's presidency. And, that's what it's all about.
You got that one on the money, Baritone. For me, it's all about bringing down that Jew-hater, Obama. The more he is stifled, the more he is made desperate, the stupider his decisions will be (though I gotta admit, in his case, that'll take some work).
That is exactly what I want to see - a desperate American president who hates Israel and Jews making stupid decisions. That way, he does for me, what I want to see him do.
Don't take it personally, Baritone. This has nothing to do with ideology, or what I think of you, or national health care, or even of Americans generally.
But this fellow you elected, now that you elected him, and now that he is doing the evil I predicted he would do, must be brought to his knees....
14 - Silas Kain
Christine's attitude and perspective is quite typical of many conservatives. They assume that all those less fortunate are just slackers.
Well, let's try and be fair here. Many people are under the mistaken impression that all of the less fortunate are slackers based upon what they've personally experienced. The dynamics of life in California are quite different than, say, Detroit. Tip O'Neill used to say "politics is local". You can change "politics" to any word you want. How one neighborhood handles poverty may be quite different from another.
What we need to do is move away from generalizations. Case in point is the marijuana legalization debate. The last thing Barack Obama wants is a discussion during his first term. Why? Because legalization of pot during the first Administration of the First Black President would have stereotypical as well as political ramifications. I can see the Tea Party now -- anti-Obama posters with the President as a Rastafarian. We're such an easily led society. All we need are images and no substance to draw stupid conclusions.
15 - Silas Kain
Christine's attitude and perspective is quite typical of many conservatives. They assume that all those less fortunate are just slackers.
Well, let's try and be fair here. Many people are under the mistaken impression that all of the less fortunate are slackers based upon what they've personally experienced. The dynamics of life in California are quite different than, say, Detroit. Tip O'Neill used to say "politics is local". You can change "politics" to any word you want. How one neighborhood handles poverty may be quite different from another.
What we need to do is move away from generalizations. Case in point is the marijuana legalization debate. The last thing Barack Obama wants is a discussion during his first term. Why? Because legalization of pot during the first Administration of the First Black President would have stereotypical as well as political ramifications. I can see the Tea Party now -- anti-Obama posters with the President as a Rastafarian. We're such an easily led society. All we need are images and no substance to draw stupid conclusions.
16 - jeannie danna
If Christine, developed a preexisting condition she would see her world quit differently, yes?
17 - jeannie danna
Silas,
Good point! I have wondered why they don't just legalize it and get it out of the hands of the drug-lords to generate income. This is a very good explanation.
The last thing Barack Obama wants is a discussion during his first term. Why? Because legalization of pot during the first Administration of the First Black President would have stereotypical as well as political ramifications. I can see the Tea Party now -- anti-Obama posters with the President as a Rastafarian.
18 - Boeke
Christine appears to have limited worldly experience.
19 - Christine
Wow, I am so honored. I am in the health and fitness industry (have been for almost 30 years), and I can tell you for a fact that at least 65% (being generous) of chronic diseases come from a bad diet and lack of exercise, plus other lifestyle decisions. And I don't need to defend the stats that if you smoke (ciggs), bad things are bound to happen.
In fact, I took my teenager to the doctor when she was having some chronic stomach problems and what WE (me and the doc) figured out was that it was all due to lack of water.
And yes, there are times when "shit" happens with no fault of our own and I should know. But won't go there. My point is that we should take responsibility for our actions, or lack there of.
By the way, our government already helps our poor and the elderly: called medicaid and medicare.
By the way: Jeannie, I have 3 pre-existing conditions and my health insurance (when I have it) costs me a shit load of money.
By the way: I tried to make a doctors appointment the other day with a neurologist because my head was gonna explode (maybe due to blogcritics) and they wanted to charge me $250, of which would of taken Dr. S 15 minutes to evaluate me and send me on my way. And how do I know that? Because I have been to Dr. S before.
Too bad B thinks so poorly of me. What is frustrating is that when libs (not all), especially "progressives" disagree, they go for the throat. Kind of pathetic and it makes it difficult to have a decent, intelligent debate.
20 - Christine
Actually, Jeannie make that 4 pre-existing conditions!
21 - roger nowosielski
Christine,
No question about correlation between healthy living and health. Don't forget though how much of the advertising dollar is spent precisely to encourage bad diet and fast foods. People are being duped by the very system you so valiantly defend.
The $250.00 you pay doesn't all go to the MD - only a fraction thereof. The lion's share is being eaten up by administrative costs.
22 - Christine
Well, Roger, then why do all the doctors I know, have a net worth of about $2 to $5 million, (some much more)?
Duped or too lazy to figure "shit" out? Does it take a rocket scientist to know that twinkies are bad for you?
23 - Baritone
"What is frustrating is that when libs (not all), especially "progressives" disagree, they go for the throat. Kind of pathetic and it makes it difficult to have a decent, intelligent debate."
But it was your blanket slam against supposed slackers that set this thread off, is it not?
Yes indeed. All those stupid lazy poor people should start working out at LA Fitness and shopping at Whole Foods and purchase all organic foods. I just don't know what's wrong with those people?
B
24 - roger nowosielski
Christine,
You're right there. My sister's and brother-in law's assets are 6 million or so. But she complains she can hardly make a living anymore. I'll never know the truth. Perhaps they made their fortune earlier, over 25-30 years of practice.
So I say, put those suckers on salaries, run all hospitals on the model of military hospitals. Then she objects, saying it'll remove the motivation, not being in business for yourself. I say, "what business, if it's true what you're saying that you're barely making it?"
It's an ongoing and thus far unresolved conversation.
25 - Christine
I was making the point (dramatically) that we should take responsibility for our own health, that is all. Not meant to be a slam against all.
For you to connect ALL conservatives to anyone "taunting a wheel chair bound fellow with Parkinson's" is way over the top!
My niece is paralyzed and wheelchair-bound, for life probably, and at the young age of 23. It breaks my heart everyday! She helped me write my diet book and is on my website!