The battle escalates. Syria and Iran are threatened by Israel. The international community does nothing as always. Is there a strategy somewhere?
The Military Situation: Escalation Beyond Lebanon…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Hanging On The Edge Of A Cliff: Update On The Mideast - Comments Page 2
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - john Smith
I don't think Israel has the balls for a full out war with Iran + Syria. Nukes are not an option as the international community would probably deny Israel's right to exist.
Why can't you guys just get on with each other for once. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is very poor and now the needless bombings.
Just lucky you don't have Saddam firing skuds at you too...then you really would be fucked.
27 - John Locke
I just can't understand why the Israels are killing all these Lesbians. I mean, jeez, I know that biblically they see same sex relationships as sinful. But to start commiting Genocide on an entire country of Lesbians? Lesbianon did not capture any Israel soldiers. What would any rug munchers need with some guys? No, this is all about Israel tired of all thier women leaving to live in Lesbianon. Poor women. Oh well, same as it ever was.
28 - JFK
You should re-name this page, something like blogpropaganda.org to let people know in advance what to expect from this side.
29 - JFK
"Political language . . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
- George Orwell, Politics and the English Language
"It is a tribute to the humanity of ordinary people that horrible acts must be camouflaged [with words] like security, peace, freedom, democracy, the 'national interest'."
- Howard Zinn,
30 - sr
Mark, What I did find interesting was the European Union criticized Israel for using what it called disproportionate force in its attacks. During WW11 when the frecking nazies were committing mass destruction on Jews does anyone believe that a European Union would criticize the nazies for using disproportionate force on Jews. Freck No. The European Union reminds me of fleas. Blood sucking parasites. J. I think you need to read up on some history. Look foward to the day when Israel whips out the SAMSON OPTION.
31 - iwp
Nancy,
"they're always the blameless victims of injustice, etc. etc. ad nauseam - and then they go out & blow up or kidnap & murder/decapitate/mutilate innocent parties"
Israel has done far worse to arab countries than what you claim to be "terrorist attacks" by the arabs. Israel is infact the biggest terrorist in the middle east. If anyone is to be accused of murdering innocent parties it is definately israel. You can not even begin to compare how many innocent lives they have taken to what any of the arab countries have done to israel.
The fact is, this time around israel was just waiting for a chance to start a war with these countries and this was the perfect chance. Capture of two israeli soldiers is not what I call a sufficient reason to wage full scale war on Lebanon. Israel has hundreds if not thousands of palestinian and arab prisoners, then they lose two of their own and thats a reason to start a war.
God knows best, and he sees all, and in time (this life or the next) israel will be brought to justice for the crimes they are commiting against innocents and civilians, as will all people, arabs or israelis who commit these crimes.
32 - Sanjay
Mark and Ruvy, the only solution is for Israel to re-establish the SLA. That's the real way to take on Hezbollah -- by proxy. It's not worth wasting IDF lives again and again for.
I hope Ehud Barak now understands the depth of his folly when he sold out the SLA and traded the buffer zone for some worthless "peace agreement" that wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
Peace is established through credibility. And that credibility either comes through military deterrence or it comes through trustworthy character. The Islamists certainly don't have the latter, but are under the illusion they're on the path to the former.
Israel needs to shatter their illusion first, and then it needs to re-shape reality by reconstituting the South Lebanese Army.
33 - nick
Israel is a schizophrenic state that claims to be struggling for its survival, but which actually seems to be begging for its destruction. Because of the endless provocation, humiliation and tyranny it imposes to its neighbour, Israel is a dead walking state.
It's a shame. I am in favour of the existence of the State of Israel but I have to say that its policians are totally out of control and should be stopped for humanity's sake.
34 - Arch Conservative
I can't help it................ the more bombs Israel drops on Hexzbollah and Beiruit the bigger my smile gets.
BC is rife with anti-semitism and sympathy for camel fucking islamic terrorists.
I say bring on world war 3!!!!!!!!!!
Time for all muslims to go down for a dirtnap.
35 - nick
I am so tired of those neo nazi islamophobes !
36 - mschannon
To the Arab apologists and closet anti-semites: Your total lack of understanding of what has been going on in the Middle East since 1917 is astonishing. Typical American historical ignorance.
It's not worth going over it (again--I've commented on it a dozen times) because you wouldn't let facts get in the way of your cherished opinions.
Go somewhere else to post. You're making me nauseous with your ignorance.
SR--agree completely, and, if I have the time (sigh), I want to write about the feckless EU.
In Decaf Veritas
37 - gazelle
an eye for ten eyes - that nine extra
is the official policy of restraint by israel
(just check any list of casualties on both sides, or prisoners - its worsse there)
nothing more can be said
cant fight history
hezbollah and others simply want someone to pay for those nine!
can do the same arithmetic in iraq. people need to get real.
best
38 - Victor Plenty
Hezbollah had been doing quite well in Lebanon. Too bad they decided to throw that all away for the chance to inflict some pointless pain on Israel.
39 - Sanjay
"Islamophobes" -- heh, what a narcissistic comment! Sorry, that one's one trademark phrase that isn't selling itself, other than with the inward looking Islamo-narcissists.
Hey nick, what about Rafiq Hariri? Do you remember him? Who was occupying Lebanon and bombing it then? No big tears over that, huh?
40 - Sanjay
Gazelle, deterrence is about imposing a penalty that is sufficient to make the enemy think twice about provoking again. There's no need for Hamas or Hezbollah to be kidnapping anyone. Those kidnappings were about escalation, and about predatory cocksureness that they could get away with the kidnappings. Anything that takes away from their ugly desire for provocation is a good thing, to me.
The peace arrangement with Lebanon and the Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the buffer zone were sold by the peace advocates as good for Israel's security. We can see what a lie that is. You give Hezbollah an inch, and they will see it as an opportunity to take a yard.
In some respects, these ugly events are a good education for ignorant Israelis who voted for fools like Ehud Barak. Where are those ignorant 'Peace Now' activists now?
Any of you here, and care to speak up?
41 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"john smith" writes,
"I don't think Israel has the balls for a full out war with Iran + Syria. Nukes are not an option as the international community would probably deny Israel's right to exist."
Don't put your money where you mouth is, John. You might find yourself broker than a mission house bum.
It is my considered opinion that Security Minister Peretz is an idiot promoted far above his natural station in life of street sweeper, and that Ehud Olmert is a coward, a thief and a bully.
But the continued rain of missiles from the north (the Bible says "the evil shall come from the north") may force even these scum to actually allow the IDF, one of the finest armies on the face of the earth, to fight like the Lions of Judah that they are.
Take out a map and take a good look at Egypt, my friends. Along the Nile River is a huge dam and a huge lake south of it. If it should happen that a nuclear missile from the northeast should strike this dam, 50 million Egyptians will die.
If the Arabs decide to try to exterminate us, we will not have any motive NOT to exterminate them.
If it comes down to US versus THEM, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be US left standing.
The West and all of its "people of good will" Israeli expatriate traitors included, can be damned.
42 - troll
may any country that uses WMD against any target be turned instantly to glass from border to border
peace
43 - gonzo marx
the bit that scares the shit out of me here is the confusion of those in Hizb'allah and Hamas, with other people....
example: i do hope the IDF stomps the shit out of those who have launched rockets into Israel and broken whatever fragile Peace there was...
but to confuse that, or even hold the Thought in your skull of nuking an Egyptian dam, as opposed to fighting those actively shooting at you...is, imo, Insanity at best...
wouold that people on both sides could See that NOT all on the "other side" are the Evil sterotypes they are thought of, but are INdividual people...
just as it is wrong for many arabs to consider all Israeli's "zionist fill-in-the-blank" it is also just as wrong to consider all "arabs" a blood Foe due to the actions of some (notably Hib'allah and Hamas, as well as others)
the Reality of the region is complicated, and deep...simplistic and un-thinking Hatred is part the root Cause, NOT part of any Answer...
just a Thought from someone on the other side of the World
Excelsior?
44 - Victor Plenty
Strong words, Troll, but there happen to be people living in Israel who are neither Israelis nor Palestinians. Should they be punished as well?
45 - troll
Victor - IMO WMDs are effective in MAD circumstances...anyone who believes that by using them *If it comes down to US versus THEM, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be US left standing.* is nuts (sorry Ruvy)
just doing my part to protect the innocents by deploying a troll hex to assure MAD and thereby prevent the use
if the US gov or some other nuke power would make the same promise then I could lighten up
troll
46 - mschannon
SR...to follow up on your comments about Europe and the US in WWII. The fire bombing of Dresden had not military purpose. The fire bombing of Tokyo killed more people than both atomic bombs. The allies routinely attacked cities with no regard for civilian casualties at all--even when it was clear they were winning the war.
And now they blame Israel for what is, by Western standards, a moderate response. The EU is bunch of sick, tired, old women with the moral authority of Neanderthals. Their fear of the Arabs in their own countries have simply increased their cowardice.
And how conveniently they forget that England, France and other Europena countries are ultimately responsible for the mess in the Middle East. Who cares what they say.
In Decaf Veritas
47 - Victor Plenty
Well, Troll, if Israel's borders were secured by a pledge of direct assistance from the US, from the UN, or from a similar military power, then maybe the Israelis would no longer feel the need to cling to their nuclear capability as the final guarantor of their survival.
48 - troll
absolutely Victor...(but we gotta show our oil suppliers the $love$)
49 - troll
and on the other hand...WMDs guarantee nothing least of all Israel's survival - this kind of thinking is delusional like that of a suicide
troll
50 - Victor Plenty
You're making a serious category error, Troll. The MAD function served by nuclear arms in the Cold War does not apply to Israel's situation.
Both the United States and the Soviet Union were large and powerful enough, during the Cold War years, to have relatively little fear of total annihilation by anything less than nuclear weapons. Only their opposing arsenals of missiles and bombers could carry a realistic threat of mutually assured destruction.
Israel has already been destroyed more than once, back in the era when the chariot and the catapult were the most fearsome engines of military power the world had ever seen. Their enemies don't need nuclear weapons to destroy them now, either. Israelis know they are only a few key military blunders away from being overrun by neighbors who vastly outnumber them and have dreamed of their violent deaths for decades.
This makes it understandable to me that Israelis think of their (widely assumed but never openly admitted) nuclear capability as a strategically vital ace in the hole, even though I certainly hope they never carry out anything like the breaching of the Aswan High Dam that Ruvy keeps talking about.
The alternative I mentioned is for someone else to become the deterrent, whether it's some form of international security force or a strong ally like the United States, making a credible pledge to commit whatever troops and assets may become necessary to assure Israel's survival.
Until some external power creates a credible threat of force to deter those who want to see Israel exterminated, I don't see how anyone can reasonably expect the Israelis to do anything other than cling to the nuclear option as a measure of last resort.
51 - Sanjay
mschannon, I would tell you that EU is much more dangerous than a bunch of sick, tired, neanderthals.
EU are a bunch of fanatical machiavellian zealots who will stop at nothing to undermine anyone who gets in their way of their dream for their own absolute security. And of course their dreams of self-security seem to require other civilized nations being condemned to insecurity.
If you ask them about Russia, the Europeans will blabber on endlessly about the age-old evil of the Russians, like they're still trapped in the Cold War. Our Cold Warrior liberals -- what an oxymoron.
The Europeans claim to love and tolerate Islam, but if you ask them about admitting Turkey into EU, then they'll quickly hold their noses.
These people are supposed to be Liberals????
Nope, not even close.
52 - gonzo marx
well, Interesitng indeed that the commenter in #51 claims to know the Mind of the entire EU...since it is obviously apparent that it is one big hive-Entity, rather than disparate parts that have yet to even agree upon a Constitution (which is about the size of a U.S. budget bill)
but this Quote...
*EU are a bunch of fanatical machiavellian zealots who will stop at nothing to undermine anyone who gets in their way of their dream for their own absolute security.*
is one that just staggers me... i am pretty Certain that an average Finn, or Czech might differ from a Brit, which will have major differences of Priority from a German or a Frenchman...
on and on
i had NO Idea that someone had met them all, and divined their motivations and tactics to such a high degree, nor that forming the EU had somehow homogenized the differences of , say, an Italian and a Swede
put down the broad brush sterotypes and back away slowly...
Excelsior?
53 - Sanjay
gonzo marx: the fact is that while EU is still having trouble overcoming their own internal contradictions, that gives them all the more of a tendency to erect foreign bogeymen as rallying points to push for their own elusive internal unity.
The Great Satan Bush, The Great Satan Russians, even the Great Satan Turks.
More importantly, the Europeans have a large ex-patriate pool abroad, particularly in the United States where they function as a vocal extra-territorialist lobby. Europe is consequently always held up as a litmus test for US involvement and engagement abroad. If the US doesn't toe the EU line, then the US is quickly branded as being "isolationist", "recalcitrant", "inward-looking", "xenophobic", "chauvinist", etc, etc.
What a bunch of garbage.
When it came to blowing up Serb TV stations and killing their staff, then EU feels this was legitimate pre-emptive diligence. But if Israel were to do that against Al-Jazeera, the EU would be hollering for warcrimes prosecution.
54 - mschannon
Gonzo, me lad, I do believe that the wise and erudite Sanjay and I are referring to the EU member leadership...no the individual people.
Some of my best friends are French...no, that's not a joke. We've known a family there for over 20 years, their kids call us their American parents, and we have French grandchildren now.
It's the politicians we were speaking of.
Thou shouldst know better, oh drinker of fine malt whiskey.
In Vino Veritas
55 - gonzo marx
wow... mixxing and matching like that tends to bloggle my little Mind...
but let me try and Discuss...
the only time i have heard the term "the Great Satan..." has been from the mid-east, NOT from anywhere in the EU...i had thought ,uslim culture had the copywrite on the phrase, but i don't get everywhere nor read everything...so perhaps i've missed something somewhere...
as for the difference between a tv station operated by an enemy government during a military conflict and another tv station more independantly operated that has no affiliation to either Hizb'allah, Hamas or Lebanon as far as i am Aware...
well, let's just say i hold that difference to be self-evident, and we can disagree
as far as any european litmus-test here in the states....that can sometimes be a sharp dividing line in our internal politics...and guess what, the political Party that has held all branches of our government for a few years now is the exact opposite of anythying euro-centric... in case you were uncertain on details here...
so, basicly...i still disagree with the accuracy of your basic Assumptions, and thus any result of logic or reason applied from such fallacious postulates is rendered suspect
Excelsior?
56 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"...IMO WMDs are effective in MAD circumstances...anyone who believes that by using them *If it comes down to US versus THEM, you can bet your bottom dollar it will be US left standing.* is nuts (sorry Ruvy)"
Troll, at least you said sorry.
Trouble is, that we here have to think in terms of exterminatory threats. I only used the Aswan High Dam as an example of Egypt's Achille's heel.
We Jews have a history of being victims of attempts at extermination. The Nazis and Soviets are only the latest chapters in a long and bloody book. So, it's about time to put the shoe on the other foot, since we have the capability to do so.
Mark Schannon is right. For all of the headlines blaring out of the rag sellers in the media, our government's response has been a moderate one. Given what they want to do to us, the appropiate response would be to beat the bastards to a bloody pulp, all of them, to make Arabia wail for generations.
Not a nice thing to say tp a fellow who is a pacifist at heart, but true.
57 - mschannon
Gonzo, you've been out of touch. Just like "Axis of Evil" can now be applied to anything, including the rear axis of my car (or is that axel or axle....well, you get the idea) so to can The Great Satan apply to anyone you don't like.
For example, the kid who broke my nose with a roundhouse punch from behind me when I was 14 is now The Great Satan. Anyone who misuses commas is the Great Satan. Even Satan himself is the Great Satan, although I have it on good authority that he's a little pissed to have to share the title.
Where was I?
Oh yes, suspect logic. Who said I was using logic? I was ranting and railing because the EU pisses me off so much. As a liberal Democrat (whatever those two words mean) I refuse to let facts intefere with a good rant.) So there!
In Vino Veritas (Ran out of Jameson, but it's a pretentious but nice little Bordeaux.)
58 - gonzo marx
fer Mark me boyo in #54...
well now me lad, dinnae fash yerself o'er it...
but what i said was just as True about the "leaders" and governments involved... that's quite a lot of folks, when you stop and think about it a second...
and what i said is just as true for the Nations as the Peoples... the desires of Greece are probably different from Norway's, etc
and no single malt fer me, boyo... long past are me days o' imbibing spirits...
but single malt scotch > any other whisky
just ta be clearin' such things up
Excelsior?
59 - troll
Victor - the underlying purpose of MAD - to prevent the use of WMDs and thereby allow humans to continue their existence on the planet - remains a critical issue...if one country's government can justify their use then so can any other (and they will) even though 'reasonable men' might disagree with the logic
(with Israel threatening nukes strategically on cities 'back home' any non nuclear invasion force would carry bio/chem WMDs into the theater to keep them in check...
now Israel couldn't have that so she'd be forced to use her weapons of last resort preemptively
dark thoughts this evening)
Ruvy - *We Jews have a history of being victims of attempts at extermination. The Nazis and Soviets are only the latest chapters in a long and bloody book. So, it's about time to put the shoe on the other foot, since we have the capability to do so.*
so that Jews can join the ranks of criminals against humanity - ?
then we will truly have broken the covenant - the one that says remain civilized no matter what
troll
60 - mschannon
Gonzo, you rascal, you know if it were anyone but you, I'd construct irrefutable logical syllogisms proving my point with such force that you'd be driven back to the demon drink.
But you won't leave a lad alone, will ye? I admitted ranting and raving, now you want me to admit that not all EU leaders are the same sniveling, war-mongering, ape-eating, Great Satans? O.k. you win. They're differences.
But don't tell anyone. This is just between us.
In Vino Veritas
61 - mschannon
Troll, you prick.
so that Jews can join the ranks of criminals against humanity - ?
then we will truly have broken the covenant - the one that says remain civilized no matter what
Do we allow ourselves to be destroyed? Do we allow the Arab scum to wipe Israel off the face of the earth?
I fear--and I'm an agnostic, so this has nothing to do with religion--that you are right. How do you balance "Never Again" with "joining the ranks of criminals against humanity?"
I don't know how. It's easy for me--as an old, fat, contented American Jew to pontificate. If Israel is destroyed and every Jew in the world takes up arms to kill every Arab in the world, do we become criminals against humanity?
The Arab terrorists are cowards and won't fight Israel openly. The Arabs are cowards and use the terrorists to keep their people from realizing the miserable conditions in which they're kept.
They send young boys and girls to commit suicide with lies about the Koran to spread terror. And when Israel strikes back, the world reacts with outrage that she tries to defend herself.
Maybe not WMD--but everything else in the arsenal. When the Arab world has paid a high enough price, perhaps it will understand what "never again" means.
Ah troll, you've broken my heart.
62 - Sanjay
mark, easy -- survival wins. Better to live with a troubled conscience, than not to live at all. I would hope that's a no-brainer for you.
You gotta admit though, it turned out to be a Hobbes' choice for Zionists to move back into a neighborhood that had really gone to the dogs in their absence. You were expecting Welcome Back Kotter, maybe?
63 - troll
Mark - *Do we allow ourselves to be destroyed? *
I've been working on this one for half a century now...since first learning of the events in the Warsaw ghetto...and I certainly have not come up with a prescription for everyone
but I took the idea seriously at a young age that to take one life is to destroy the entire world
for me - better to die a human being than live as a vengeful Beast
like I 've written before - that's my covenant with whatever G-d may be
(which I've stuck to pretty well with the exception of a nihilist period in my late teens/early twenties)
Sappy
64 - mschannon
Sanjay,
mark, easy -- survival wins. Better to live with a troubled conscience, than not to live at all. I would hope that's a no-brainer for you.
You're wrong. I've never been put in a situation where I've had to consider sacrificing my life for those things I believe in, and talk is cheap, but to violate those values I hold most dear and then to continue to live as a thief, having stolen from myself my own core beliefs--no, better to die with honor. Or at least, I hope I could take that path.
There must be some things worth dying for...or there's are no things worth living for...and that from an agnostic. I don't need a God to instruct me on morality, virtue, and honor.
A quote I've become addicted to (in fact, made it the theme of my still unpublished novel) is from Thoreau. Most people know the first line, but few know the second.
Most men live lives of quiet desperation
And go their graves with the song still in them.
I will not go quietly. It is only the journey that matters--not the end. How one lives one life is all that matters--not what one accomplishes.
So, no, I would not want to live with a conscience that troubled. It would mean that my entire journey has been a lie. What purpose living then?
65 - Clavos
How one lives one life is all that matters--not what one accomplishes.
That says it all, Mark.
66 - Sanjay
Mark, here we're not talking about your own individual survival. We're talking about the survival of an entire society. Certainly, you're free to give your own shirt off your back in support of your principles. But I don't feel that you're free to give the shirts off the backs of your wife, kids, or other family members, especially when you've been benefitting off them -- your allegiance and responsabilities are to them first. Do your Hamlet to-be-or-not-to-be act later on, after they're safe and out of danger.
What ethical conundrum is stymying you here?
Whether or not to hate an enemy that wants you dead?
Whether to shoot back if someone is shooting at you?
How many of your own family should die before you say enough?
The Hezbollah had no further reason to make war. The peace agreement had given them all their territory, and they were free to build a better society. Instead, they wanted to keep Syria on as their local lord, and wanted to pursue a course of further armed conflict.
They were given every chance to make peace, and they blew it. Now they're going to have to be cleaned out.
67 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Gentlemen,
Cool down, will you? If HizbAllah has missiles that can hit J-lem, I'm the one in danger, not you.
First of all, Troll, read the Book of Joshua. This too, is part of the Hebrew Bible, and the essential rules of the Torah for getting rid of the enemy on holy soil (kill everybody) are followed there by Joshua. Thirty one kings and all the inhabitants of the cities they rule are killed. If anything, Joshua's immediate successors are criticized for not following this strategy. All the problems in the Book of Judges stem from not following this strategy.
In order to live honorably, first you must live. You may have to live down terrible demons, but if you are dead, you cannot do that either.
Mark, give the Arabs a little credit. The attack by Hamas that really started this whole thing, was an attack on soldiers, not civilians. The same is true with HizbAllah in its initial sorties last week. Also, just so you are aware, Hamas is a Moslem social services help agency with an agenda of destroying Israel. Local Arabs, seeing the difference between the thieves of the PLO and Hamas, chose Hamas. I'm not sanctifying the bastards, just making sure that they are accurately protrayed.
Finally Sanjay, American Jews may be in danger, but if they are, it is not from the missiles that fly over the Galilee. I think they are in danger, grave danger, but that is not a subject directly germane to THIS article. If the news I've been getting from the States is accurate, Amdrican Jews are hanging on their own cliff - and don't want to even believe it. It would not be the first time this has happened with Jews.
68 - abundant
This is "war", is it not? Well, yes and no. Yes, if your definition of "war" is:
* to dispossess an entire people from large parts of their land
* shepherd them into refugee camps
* exile others and refuse them a right to return
* manipulate international opinion via the mainstream press and demonise the dispossessed people as terrorists when they resist your brutal measures against them
* deprive them of any real means to resist yet when they do manage to strike back, portray them as being a greater source of evil than you
* isolate them from any international aid and begin a process of slowly making their lives into a living hell
* periodically murder them, including many children to an average of 600 per year and then lie about it and ensure that their suffering is played down in the international mainstream press.
When stating his belief that Israeli citizens were inherently more worthy than their Palestinian brothers and sisters, Olmert (Israeli Prime Minister) made the comparison between the people of Gaza and the inhabitants of the Israeli town of Sderot who, as stated, have been making a lot of noise about their suffering from rockets fired by the palestinian resistance. The important details, which are as usual ignored by the mainstream press, are that, in the 9 day period from June 14th - June 23rd this year, 14 innocent Palestinian civilians were murdered by the IDF as part of the effort to stop the firing of rockets at Sderot. Yet in the past 5 years, just 5 Israeli citizens have been killed by such rockets, despite the fact that hundreds have been fired.
The simple fact of the matter is that , if the Israeli government was truly only concerned with protecting Israeli citizens and bore no visceral, racist hatred towards Palestinians, then we would surely be much further along the road to a peaceful solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. But it is hard to convince anyone that your primary goal is defence when:
* your air force fires 1,000 missiles per week at a 7x30 mile strip of land (Gaza) that is home to over 1.4 million impoverished people (Palestinians), 50% of whom are under the age of 15.
* 3012 Palestinian Civilians have been killed by Israeli Occupation Forces forces in the Occupied Palestinian Territories since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising (Intifada) in 2000.
* 22,750 Palestinians have been wounded by Israeli Occupation Forces in the Gaza Strip and West Bank in the same period.
And all of this when:
* in the same period approximately 700 Israeli civilians have been killed as a result of Palestinian attacks
* during all of 2005, just six Israeli Occupation Forces were killed by Palestinian resistance fighters
Yet the Israeli government does a very good job of convincing the whole world that it is the victim in the conflict. How can this be? Israeli control of the press? Could that ubiquitous "conspiracy theory" actually be closer to a conspiracy fact? I don't really care, all I want is for someone to explain to me how, in a situation where there is massive evidence that 1.4 million completely isolated Palestinian civilians in the Gaza strip are being systematically murdered and starved by the state of Israel with its shiny 21st century military and all the tax dollars and support America can muster, somehow the entire world believes that those 1.4 million dispossessed are "evil terrorists" and "only have themselves to blame".
Somebody, please tell me how it comes to pass, if not by control of the mainstream press, and very significant control at that.
9 Israeli children's deaths were reported in the headlines or first paragraphs of AP articles on the Israel/Palestine conflict in 2004, when 8 had actually occurred.
During the same period only 27 out of 179 Palestinian children's deaths were reported. Additionally, Palestinian children made up a disproportionately large number of Palestinian deaths in general. Children�s deaths accounted for 21.8% of the Palestinians killed, while children's deaths accounted for only 7.4% of Israelis killed during this period. 22 times more Palestinian children were killed than Israeli children.
AP reported on 113% of Israeli children�s deaths in headlines or first paragraphs, while reporting on only 15% of Palestinian children's deaths. That is, Israeli children's deaths were reported at a rate 7.5 times greater than Palestinian children's deaths.
You might want to consider this one also, and realise that, if the BBC "favors Israel", then American networks are positively "in love" with Israel.
69 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Abundant,
Your comment is abundant in that most common of American resources, horse manure.
You carefully frame your complaint to include only present day issues. The decision to herd Arabs fleeing this nation in 1948-49 into refugee camps was an Arab decision. From 1949 to 1967, the Arabs in Judea and Samaria and in the Gaza Strip were in prisons of Arab making. This is still true in Lebanon. Arab refugees from this country and the terrorists they have spawned have been responsible for most of the instability and deaths in Lebanon and Jordan over the last 5 decades.
So as is abundantly clear, this is an Arab problem, for Arabs to face up to and solve. Their treatment of their brothers has been a stain on the Arab umma. It is a stain on Arab honor and a stain on Arab manhood.
Arabs refused to abide by a UN resolution giving them half of this country. They've made their bed - let them sleep in it.
70 - troll
Ruvy - it's an international problem as well - the UN structured aid around the camps creating the obvious dependency
but underneath and driving it all is the problem of raging anti-semitism
troll
71 - mschannon
Sanjay, the ethical issue is using atomic bombs--things so horrible that even the creators of the first ones wished they had never done it. It's a slipperly slope. There has to be a point at which a society says no, and, for me, nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction are that point.
I'm all for full-scale war against the Arab terrorists and those states that support them. But I'm also all for the Geneva Conventions. I fully support what Israel is doing and have nothing but scorn for the Quislings in Europe or the dictator in Russia.
But if you say my life or my family's life is worth turning the earth -- or even one nation -- into a gigantic, molten pool of radioactive sludge...then we will never agree.
And Ruvy, I'm a little surprised at your response that you're in danger, we're not. It's almost as if you're saying we don't have the right to a point of view. I've heard that from other Israelis, and I honestly do understand the emotional context in which the statement is made, but the use of WMD is not simply an Israeli issue--it's an issue that affects the entire world.
And I'm sorry, but I won't turn to the Bible for ethical guidance--we've had this discussion too many times already.
72 - Sanjay
Mark, the whole point of civilized countries possessing nuclear weapons is that they don't use them, they merely benefit from their deterrence effect which affords them protection against all-out conventional war.
This is in contrast to irresponsible and backward dictatorships like Iran which frequently chortle and rave about using nuclear weapons.
I see no evidence that Israel would somehow automatically be forced to use nuclear weapons in a conflict with Syria, or even Iran, since neither are nuclear yet.
In light of that, wouldn't you prefer a pre-emptive strike by Israel to remove the nuclear or budding-nuclear capability of these countries? Why wait until more nukes arrive on the field of conflict?
It's just like detonating an avalance to avoid it building up to catastrophic levels, or burning off a section of forrest to avoid the dry tinder building up to levels where it could cause a much worse fire.
Treatment of cancer is painful, but leaving it untreated simply to forego some early discomfort is the worse option by far.
73 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Mark,
I didn't say you don't get a voice in all this. You're one or the Tribe. You most certainly get a voice. But HIZBALLAH'S missiles do not endanger YOU. They just can't fly that far. You may have family here, especially living in Netanya or Haifa and the missiles could endanger them. So realistically speaking I am the only one in danger of being hit by these missiles, and from what I can gather that danger is remote. Other Israelis may tell you to sit down and shut up - you're in the Galut. I won't - at least not yet... Give me another ten years...
From what I've seen, these Katyushas are not weapons of "mass destruction." One of them is not going to destroy the entire Azrieli complex in Tel Aviv, or the MalHa Mall here in town. Put on them eppes a nuclear tip, or cobalt 60 or bubonic plague, and that's a different story, a color of a different horse...
This doesn't mean that these missiles don't kill and it doesn't bring back to life the eight dead killed in Haifa today. But had the misile killed eighty dead, then you'd be talking about a weapon of mass destruction.
Finally, Mark, if you take a good hard and honest look, most of the morality surrounding you today comes from the Bible. Moral guidnce and belief in G-d are two very different things. Unless you are specifically willing to turn to the Hindu holy books, or the works of Confucius, or the Qur'an, you will wind up taking your moral guidance from the Bible. So you might as well take it directly from the Source and save yourself a lot of confusion.
74 - sr
Would it be possible for a Hizballah missile to accidentally hit the Dome of The Rock. Just wishful thinking. sr
75 - abundant
Ruvy,
It is clear to me that you are dodging the issue.
In a situation where there is massive evidence that 1.4 million completely isolated Palestinian civilians in the Gaza strip are being systematically murdered and starved by the state of Israel with its shiny 21st century military and all the tax dollars and support America can muster, somehow the entire world believes that those 1.4 million dispossessed are "evil terrorists" and "only have themselves to blame".
There is an experiment in human despair going on in the small Gaza Strip. If it works there, its lessons can be applied to a much bigger effect in the West Bank ghettoes. This is how ethnic cleansing looks when it is designed not by butchers in uniforms but by technocrats in suits.