There are many who dismiss the suicides of the three detainees at Guantanamo with a kind of "good riddance" wave of the hand, a casual shrug of the shoulders denoting indifference to the fate of those who, if given half a chance, would kill us all.
But it is by no means clear that those detainees and the others being held there pose that kind of threat. And the reason we aren't sure - sure enough to have a clear conscience as we lock them away for the rest of their lives - is because of the unconscionable foot dragging by the Administration on determining exactly what rights the prisoners will be granted before U.S. courts.
The Justice Department last year passed the buck to Congress, giving them the opportunity to determine how to go about judging the detainees on a case by case basis The Congress demurred, believing the matter to properly belong to the courts. And while lower courts have granted the prisoners some rights like habeas corpus and the right to an attorney, the legal limbo of the detainees won't be cleared up until the Supreme Court rules on the matter.
On Friday, the President acknowledged that Gitmo has got to be closed and offered his explanation as to why it still functions:
"We would like to end the Guantanamo — we'd like it to be empty," Bush said. But he added: "There are some that, if put out on the streets, would create grave harm to American citizens and other citizens of the world. And, therefore, I believe they ought to be tried in courts here in the United States."Even the President is now convinced Guantanamo needs to be closed and that the prisoners have their cases tried in American courts. The amazing thing about the President's statement is that if indeed the Supreme Court rules that the President "overstepped his authority" in using military tribunals to detain the prisoners illegally, there's a chance that there may not be any trials in US courts at all; that most if not all the prisoners will be released outright.Bush said his administration was waiting for the Supreme Court to rule on whether he overstepped his authority in ordering the detainees to be tried by U.S. military tribunals.
To forestall that possibility, the Supreme Court's ruling is likely to be hazy enough so that the prisoners will not be released due to any technical violation of their "constitutional rights" - an incendiary term when applied to accused terrorists - but will grant the detainees a habeas corpus hearing that will force the government to reveal in open court some of the evidence compiled against them.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Al Barger
Proposed alternate headline: "Guantanamo Suicides Mean Three Less Assholes for US Taxpayers to Feed"
I am not "indifferent" to the fate of these three, but in fact actively glad for their demise. GOOD. Or perhaps you'd rather argue that these guys were just innocent goatherds minding their flocks when they were scooped up and sent to Gitmo for no reason.
And the reason for closing Gitmo won't be because it is horrible or unjust, but because it has become a ridiculous public relations problem with little or no relationship to what is actually going on there.
But what is really ridiculous is that that their co-ordinated asymetrical PR based stunt was in fact a good strategy. It is whipping up all the regular useful idiots to wring their hands over the wicked Americans yet some more, just as they would have hoped.
2 - troll
suicide as an alternative to unbounded incarceration - I'm surprised that there have not been more
troll
3 - Matthew T. Sussman
Troll: Fewer virgins that way.
4 - troll
may their grapes be peeled slowly for all eternity
5 - Arch Conservative
I wonder how long before the ACLU files a wrongful derath lawsuit.........
If only more ACLU lawyers would commit suicide.
6 - JR
Al Barger: I am not "indifferent" to the fate of these three, but in fact actively glad for their demise. GOOD. Or perhaps you'd rather argue that these guys were just innocent goatherds minding their flocks when they were scooped up and sent to Gitmo for no reason.
Perhaps you would argue that that compound in Waco was full of innocent Christians who were peacefully collecting assault rifles when the ATF went knocking on their door for no reason.
7 - Al Barger
JR, that's utterly bogus. The Branch Davidians WERE just peacefully collecting weapons. That is the most infamous massacre on American soil by our government in several generations. They never participated in, planned, nor in any way expressed any desire to do violence to their fellow citizens.
Now, I'm sympathetic to the point of being a little uncomfortable with the open-ended legal status at Gitmo- though there are some at least halfway reasonable arguments for it from the administration side. Still, I hate having to trust them this much.
Nonetheless, these people didn't get to Gitmo by being innocent shepherds. Further, I'm fairly certain that even if an innocent shepherd got somehow drug to Gitmo, he wouldn't be volunteering for ritual co-ordinated suicide.
8 - Arch Conservative
Yeah Al.....
Waco.........it's how liberals separate church and state.
Janet Reno's not a facist but George Bush is .
Hah!
And of course everyone at Gitmo is innocent. These libs support the troops don't believe they're capable of telling the difference between a farner and an al queda henchman.
9 - JR
The Branch Davidians WERE just peacefully collecting weapons....They never participated in, planned, nor in any way expressed any desire to do violence to their fellow citizens.
Well then, they were pretty damn good improvisers.
...these people didn't get to Gitmo by being innocent shepherds.
If the government had made a good case that these were all hardened terrorists, I wouldn't give them another thought. But the government doesn't seem to have made any effort whatsoever. I actually have no idea who all is in Gitmo, and I certainly don't see why we should trust the government more now than we did at Ruby Ridge or Waco.
I've seen the authorities make stupid mistakes; it scares me when they don't bother to explain themselves when they haul people away. And I can imagine an innocent man going along with anything in such a Kafkaesque situation.
10 - Jet in Columbus
That you can defend a religious fanatic with a Jesus complex is laughable.
That you can defend suicidal nuts with guns is dangerous.
That you're only deriding the decisions made because of political beiiefs is typical.
11 - JustOneMan
Jet...spoken like a true liberal!
I think we are guaranteed the - Freedom of Religion, Right to Bear Arms and Freedom of Association! REGARLESS if you like their religion, or what they beleive or that they are gun owners!
Obviously the Clinton Gang and Big Ma Reno didnt like the idea of these freedoms!
12 - handyguy
Are you willing to take the government's word, without proof, that these men are dangerous, but that their crimes are too secret for us mere civilians to understand? Then I ask: which of us is more naïve?
As this article says, Guantanamo shames us all. It makes a mockery of justice and democracy...supposedly what we are defending. Dozens if not hundreds of those prisoners have already been released, after being held for no good reason. Few if any have been charged, yet they continue to be held indefinitely.
Charge them, try them, or let them go.
13 - JustOneMan
Hey Handy...you dont make sense...on one hand you say that "Dozens if not hundreds of those prisoners have already been released" which validates that there is a process...
Do you expect the military to have open court hearings on Court TV...handy that aint no way to win a war!
14 - Arch Conservative
Jet is the type who would rather mourn the suicide deaths of three al queda at gitmo than of those at waco who did not actaully harm anyone Justone.
15 - Christopher Rose
Archie is the type who'd attack anybody who disagrees with him. Funny that he defends the American way of life, freedom for all, at the same time.
Anytime you master the art of joined up thinking Archie, please let us know...
16 - Silas Kain
Shit happens. Guantanamo never should have, but it did. We need to get over it and make things right. Personally I would like to convert Gitmo to a prison for all the politically corrupt politicians and lobbyists in Washington. But if we did that, Gitmo would have to become the capitol of the U.S.
17 - JP
Al, do you know first hand what "actually goes on there?"
18 - Silas Kain
Put a bunch of Fundamentalist Muslims in a prison and you get suicides and hunger strikes. Put a bunch of liberal Americans in a prison and you get an orgy. Put a bunch of Southern Fundamentalist Christians on a farm and you get frightened sheep.
19 - troll
Al - *Nonetheless, these people didn't get to Gitmo by being innocent shepherds.*
are you referencing the suicides or the entire gitmo population - ?
hasn't the administration released around 300 of the detainees with the statement that 'a number of them' should not have been detained in the first place - ?
troll
20 - Silas Kain
Yes, the Administration has released many inmates who were not justifiably detained. Again, I think that the press and Far Left are making too much out of Gitmo. War is war. There are certain rules as outlined by the Geneva Convention. We went too far by invading Iraq and we've a mess to clean up, period.
21 - troll
Silas - low blow warning...I'll remember your relaxed attitude when They start detaining homosexuals
troll
22 - Silas Kain
Low blow? Troll, let me get off my knees to make one thing very clear. War knows no gender or sexual orientation. The greatest military genius in history was at minimum bisexual. It may be that good ol' Abe Lincoln was as well. Gitmo happened. There are lessons to be learned. But for the Left to make such a big commotion out of it only serves as yet another smokescreen from the real issues which confront our nation. Troll, the extreme fringes on both sides will stop at nothing to throw up roadblocks by wagging the dog. It is left to all of those in between to figure out which course to chart.
23 - JustOneMan
Hey Silas...so what do you do for fun...dress up as a sheep and graze in the meadows of Southern Fundamentalist Christians farms...
Tell us all how does it feel to be made to feel like a real sheep?
Bahhhhhhhhh...you anti-christian asshole!
24 - Jet in Columbus
Question: Why does JOM never take his girlfriend to football games?
Answer: The embarrassement of her grazing on the field during halftime.
25 - handyguy
The title of this piece is a stain on good spelling (and possibly undercuts the author's very good points):
It's Guantanamo, not 'Guatanamo.'