"Tax and spend" is at least mathematically coherent when compared to "tax-cut and spend."
Many on the right are lamenting the "conversion" of former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and will likely start to discredit him for committing the unforgivable heresy of praising Clinton and criticizing Bush. Specifically, he praised Clinton for his fiscal-minded policies and focus on the spending deficit. Conversely, he criticized Bush and the Republican Congress for its out-of-control spending and divorce with fiscal discipline. He has it exactly right — the Democrats did not win in 2006, the Republicans lost.…
Article comments
76 - Clavos
And yet, Chile (and its 16 million citizens) is thriving (without socialism).
And Milton Friedman is the reason.
The bumper sticker is, I'm certain, apocryphal; Friedman wasn't the type to think in bumper stickerese.
77 - troll
following Pinochet's implementation of Friedman's policies Chile went through a 15 year period of 10 to 20% unemployment punctuated by recessions in which the rate increased by 50% or more - presently it's about 8%
and that's not even considering the impact of constant high inflation on the non-owner class
I question the premise that State underwritten capitalism is particularly preferable to socialism
(...and of course I made the bumper sticker thing up oh gullible one)
78 - Clavos
Vhile's economy was such a basket case prior to Friedman's intervention, a multi-year period of adjustment was inevitable.
"I question the premise that State underwritten capitalism is particularly preferable to socialism"
Fair enough. I question the premise that socialism is preferable to any form of capitalism.
I didn't accept that the bumper sticker was real. How am I gullible?
79 - troll
'period of adjustment' - ya gotta love it
80 - Clavos
Grouch
81 - troll
...and since State capitalism is a form of socialism I'm not sure that your mimicry works
82 - Christopher Rose
Socialism and Capitalism are not opposites so the statements about one being preferable to the other are absurd.
There is nothing wrong with money, which is just a medium of exchange, just as there is nothing wrong, indeed it is rather noble, that the more capable should care for those less able. It also helps to bind a society together in their shared experience, which brings many other ancillary benefits.
It seems to be a very odd and very American vision that any kind of collective social action is inherently wrong. Is it perhaps a hangover from the days when you were all made to feel that Communism was a threat to the very existence of the USA?
83 - moonraven
Sorry, oh ignorant assholes who do not:
1. live in Latin America
2. know shit about the area.
I would like clavos to post the gini coefficient for Chile--which is second only to Brazil in the most unequal distribution of wealth in the hemisphere.
Then he can proceed to EAT it--decimal by decimal.
The most thriving economy in the hemisphere--and second in the world--is not Chile's. It is Venezuela's.
Viva Chavez, cabrones!
84 - JustOneMan
Greenspan is another old fart trying to rewrite history in an attempt to preserve his legacy...
I guess he was worried that all of his other retired "tribesman" retiring to Florida would think he turned into a putz...well he has.
Rather than fade away into the sunset he had to try to be political and Bush Bash...instead he is hit in the head by the boomerang of his public record of supporting Bushes fiscal policies...
He should shut his mouth and just fade away..
JOM
85 - Arch Conservative
Why hasn't Moonbat gotten the point yet that no one gives a damn about Latin America or her bullshit Latin American anecdotes?
86 - moonraven
I am the only person who counts on this forum--the rest of you are either Nalle clones or 13-year old beatoff artists-- and I do give way more than a damn about Latin America, [Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor].
As for Lumpy wanting to give Pinochet credit:
I will give the DEAD fascist fucker credit for murdering at least 5,000 of his countrymen, and for scamming millions in arms deals and for taking Nixon and Kissinger to the cleaners.
He didn't take any of it with him to hell, though.
87 - moonraven
JOM:
Probably the ONE thing we have ever agreed on is that Greenspan is a senile old fart who should just fade away.
He and his silly Ayn Rand philosophy of objectivism.
88 - Matthew T. Sussman
"There is nothing wrong with money, which is just a medium of exchange, just as there is nothing wrong, indeed it is rather noble, that the more capable should care for those less able."
I think we all agree on that. Just not on whether charity should be mandatory.
89 - bliffle
"Is it perhaps a hangover from the days when you were all made to feel that Communism was a threat to the very existence of the USA?"
Yes. Even the language is the same. And Islamism is commonly conflated with communism. Right here on BC.
90 - Maurice
I can tell by the comments that nobody (except for me and Clavos) has read "Free to Choose" and nobody seems to understand how the economy broke down and how we got the depression.
Oh well. I am going to make a funny comment in one of Nalles old posts!
91 - handyguy
I haven't [and won't] read the Greenspan tome, but I did enjoy watching Jon Stewart subtly yet devastatingly undercut everything the man said last night as a guest on The Daily Show. They must have agreed in advance not to bring up that embarrassing sentence about oil.
92 - Christopher Rose
Communism was never a credible and plausible threat to the USA and radical Islamism isn't either.
93 - troll
...read the book and saw the show
Maurice - do you want to discuss Friedman's theories about the power of ideas and whether or not antisemitism caused the bank failures and depression and the Fed's restriction on the supply of dollars in '30 or what - ?
94 - Maurice
troll
they made a movie from the book "Free to Choose"?
If you had read the book you wouldn't be asking the question about anti-Semitism. There is no discussion of anti-Semitism in the book.
95 - troll
tv show in '80
..and just how much are you willing to wager on your memory and claim that: *There is no discussion of anti-Semitism in the book.* - ?
96 - troll
this one's free Maurice - having trudged off to my dusty library I can recommend that you look specifically at his discussion of the failure of the Bank of America pp 80 - 83
you might watch your assumptions
97 - Maurice
Troll - thanks, I sit corrected. I just quickly read those pages and you are very right. I was wrong.
I still say the lions share of the blame for the financial collapse as described by Friedman is the meddling of the Fed.
98 - bliffle
One is well-advised to watch Charlie Rose' interview of Greenspan. The best I've seen. If your locale is so arrested that PBS is unavailable (perhaps you live in Texas), then check here: Charlie Rose.
99 - troll
Maurice - what I got out of Friedman's argument was that if the Fed had meddled aggressively and differently early on (by increasing dollars in circulation instead of allowing the supply to dry up) the depth of the depression might have been avoided
imo minarchist libertarian theory is as fallacious as the notion that one can be just a little bit pregnant - for all his protestations to the contrary Friedman was a gung ho State-ist as evidenced by his support of the Pinochet regime with its totalitarian methods for...control...of Chile's people during the period of draconian policies that he prescribed
100 - Maurice
troll
I can't pretend to get into the mind of Friedman.... wait... alright I am going to try. I'm channeling him now... no wait. That's John Maynard Keynes! Crap!
Okay, I have no idea what he thought he was doing with Pinochet. Perhaps he was overcome with power.
At any rate Free to Choose is a great book and I can forgive Milton for making a few human mistakes in his remarkable life. At least he didn't get a hummer from an intern! He didn't, right?
101 - troll
...unlike Ms Wimpy Clinton I get the feeling that Rose would have castrated him - so I'd say probably not