Christiane Amanpour's "God's Warriors" is a great study of radical religion and its venture into violence.
Christiane Amanpour's three part, six hour special report, God's Warriors which aired last week on CNN was a great bit of reporting. I won't presume to "review" the program. I am a bit surprised that no one has seen fit to discuss it here at BC. Suffice it to say that Ms. Amanpour is, in my opinion, one of the best reporters anywhere. She took great pains to be as impartial as possible, revealing her incredulity only briefly in response to some instances of obvious sexism. …
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - bliffle
Zedd,
I found your reference to early explorers utterly mystifying. From whence do you speak?
27 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, I'm well aware you're no academic, you don't display enough respect for facts over fancy for that, but the word prophecer was carefully chosen for its obvious meaning. There was a joke there too, but unless you're a Reggae fan you wouldn't have got it!
So, somewhere between 19 and 23 years from now, this whole religion of yours is going to be shown as the biggest and longest con of all time or as the real deal. I really hope both of us live that long!
Zedd, if your powers of inference were half as good as you think they are, you would understand me better.
Judging solely by your commenting on this site, the only thing that is big about you is not your intellect but your ego. I've rarely come across someone who writes so much to express so little.
Mind you, I have noticed you're really trying hard not to make so many blatant spelling mistakes at the moment. Thank you for that at least.
28 - Zedd
Chris,
You should know more than anyone that my comments are partly tongue and cheek. I do apologies if I have portrayed anything other than that.
Yes the views that I reflect are what I believe or understand however the teases are just that, I take yours to be the same, else I wouldn't volunteeringly participate on this site. I mean really, you called me a giddy goon. I'm gonna use that one. It's my poke from now on.
I enjoy your pick on's. I think they are funny most of the time.
Now here's that floaty.... (four dots, yeah boiy!!!!)
Now......
I would venture to say that Ruvy's got me beat on the writing so much, blah blah blah....
I would venture that if you thought that I was male you would not see my comments to be so condescending. You would think that I may know what I was talking about or I would simply anger you.
Chris, you and I don't quite speak the same language. I see a lot of similarities between you and Dave. Surprisingly, you both are editors (minute details).
You seem to like ideas to fit into nice little categories. While your affiliations are different, you seem to miss what is off of the path that is familiar to yourself. However Dave seems to get simplicity, you have a disrespect for it. I could be wrong.
As many times as you have insulted me, lectured me, approved of my words or corrected me on a topic that I was aware of but just making a wise crack about, I never once squeaked that you are arrogant, or preachy or breaking the rules. I just laugh and move on.
Toughen up buddy. I'm sorry that you miss my point most of the time. But don't attempt to make me feel deficient because of it. It could just be you who lacks in some way. Not calling you thick by the way.
Now does that semi groveling suite your White male sensibility? Are you now prepared to engage like a big boy?
29 - Christopher Rose
Oh fuck! I wrote too soon. The illiterate Zedd is back and in full flow.
It's "tongue in cheek", though I admit your way sounds smuttier; you may "do apologies" although it sounds more like you do drugs; you can't "volunteeringly participate", not unless you're an editor at least; and, skipping over a whole bunch of equally inane nonsense, it doesn't "suite" me at all.
I really do think you're a bit dim and best left talking to children. Personally, I'm done with you.
30 - Lee Richards
I look forward eagerly to BC's own Ms. Malaprop's next discourse.
Aisle bed ids knot two bee mist!
31 - troll
you guys aren't what would be called 'pineapples of politeness'
32 - Christopher Rose
But you are, troll, you are!
33 - Zedd
Chris,
I wonder if it is BC's policy that the comments editor would be making fun of the commenter's spelling errors, and INTENTIONAL word, phrase and grammatical license taking.
I understand that this is an area that you feel most confident in, however being the giddy sort, I give myself liberty to speak liberally, especially in such a venue. For those who don't have confidence in their ability to reason or debate, it may be important to write in a conversational forum as if they are writing an essay. They've got something to prove, perhaps. I am fully aware of the "literary liberties" that I take. A person with your mind would not appreciate them. I am having fun. Not trying to prove how capable I am. I am confident in my capabilities thus I don't feel the need to prove anything. Obviously that is not the case for you. I have explained that over and over again. You understand exactly what I am saying. THAT makes it pitiful that you would veer from the discussion at hand to correct conversational speech. I don't revere the English language. I comfortable in understanding that language snobbishness was designed to exclude those of your class (I presume) from fully engaging and having power. You seem to have bought into the entire concept of your being common or inferior and are obsessed, it would seem, about how smart or good enough you seem to be by the pattern of letters on this page. I don't have that problem. Keep it. Don't try to pass it on. I challenge you to think. Simply think and convey a sharp argument. Forget about dots and whatever else you hide under to deflect the fact that you feel insecure about your smarts.
Your obsession with minutia reveals your insecurity about conversing intelligently about matters of substance.
Next time before you, THE EDITOR, make a huge deal about a spelling error intended or not, if it is mine KNOW that I DON'T CARE. Also KNOW that it's your language, I speak it quite well, but I don't revere it. Its YOU who does. Also know that your easy "distract-ability" only reveals your tiny mind. I've let you go on and on for months smiling politely at your minuteness without saying anything about it. You are telling more about yourself than you realize. Let it go.
Now whenever you are ready do have a real discussion, I here.
Again, you probably will find a error or two in this post. Let it go. The point is that you understand EXACTLY what it is that I am conveying to you. I have communicated to you perfectly. Now try and focus will you?
I'm at home relaxing. I will take liberty. Get over it.
Huuuuuug again. You silly goon.
34 - Christopher Rose
*Blood pours from ears, spittle from mouth and strange brown liquid from rectum. Falls twitching spastically to ground and loses consciousness*
35 - Catey
Comment # 20 - Ruvy -
What would a gentile do about the law concerning eating blood? I don't eat blood per se, but my steak can be bloody before I slap that baby on the grill. :)
As for the rest of the Laws of Noah, I observe them because they were given by God, and I will at last answer to Him.
However, I will go to the Father only by my faith in Jesus Christ.
36 - Zedd
Sorry Chris.
Can we be buds again?
I spelled correctly....?!
37 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Catey,
To the best of my knowledge, the law forbidding you to consume the blood of the animal is not necessarily part of the Noahide Laws, though it would only seem common sense that it would be. But google up the Noahide Laws to find out. I make no pretension to expertise. It may well be that they are included somehow.
These are the laws as I understand them.
1. You need to recognize the exisxtence of one G-d.
2. You need to bless G-d.
3. You need to avoid spilling blood. (maybe the rule is within here)
4. You need to avoid sexual immorality.
5. You are not allowed to cut off the limb of a living animal and eat it while the animal still lives - this is interpreted to mean you need to treat animals humanely.
6. Do not steal.
7. Institute courts of law to enforce these rules.
A more authoritative source can be found here or here
38 - Baritone
Zedd,
What I find odd is that you characterized my statements concerning the non-existence of god as "an outburst."
In a way that reinforces what I said above. Would you have considered it an outburst if someone included a "parise the lord" or a "thank god" in a post? Perhaps if it was totally out of context. But in normal conversation references to god are common. Some people can barely utter a phrase without giving a verbal nod to god.
I felt that my tying up the piece with my position on god was within the natural evolution of the piece. I certainly did not do it for shock value.
As you noted, most of the regulars here know my position regarding god and religion. And it is stated rather clearly in my profile. It never occured to me that reiterating it in the article would seem to some too great a leap.
B-tone
39 - No Dhimmi
Amanpour's show was quite good and, as you say, as impartial as is possible.
Check out this scary site: The Truth About Islam
40 - SABU NINAN
We can not change history, but we should learn from history. We should learn from crussades, armenian genocide and holocaust and so on.Most of theese wars had a religious component in it. We should seperate religion from politics.Only a secular, democratic, free society can avoid these kind of wars. Sharia courts in muslim countries should not be for all and it should be at mosque level on a voluntary base because it is so unfair to non muslims.Dhimmitude, sharia rule and jiihad could cause conflict with civilizations.
41 - Zedd
Baritone,
I really enjoyed your article. My statement about the last part was just a side note.
Silly as it is to go on with this however BC is rather quiet tonight... I would not write a paper on religion then start shouting hallelujah, praise his name at the end of it. It would be odd don't you think? Funny as heck though. We all enjoy a good meltdown. I wouldn't write a thoughtful paper on the upcoming elections, the issues at hand and the challenges of each of the candidates and then end it with a rousing scream about how Washington is full of scum. I'm just sayin'. (Chris no cow births today please, I meant to spell it that way).
But I enjoyed your article.
42 - troll
(re #32 - I offer up a bona fide Mrs Malapro and what do I get back - ? attitude
pearls before swine I tell ya)
43 - Baritone
Thank you, Zedd.
44 - Baritone
I suppose I should respond to Ruvy after his invective response to all this. I just don't know what to say. It's obvious that he doesn't care. He said so.
I won't try to be glib. There is something about the tone of his response, his conviction. It's frightening - moreso because I know he is not alone. There are many others who feel and believe just as he does.
He is so certain of his sight. Yet, so too are millions of others, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and on and on. They are, most of them, inflicted with tunnel vision. There is only one truth. Ruvy may not want to blow me to bits. I don't know that he, personally is of a violent nature. Actually, from some of his previous posts and comments, I'd say not. But there are many in his part of the world who are in fact ready and willing to do violence.
In the end it doesn't matter to what god they have pledged fealty - not to the rest of us at any rate. It doesn't matter if the fellow firing the machine gun is a Jew, or the woman detonating the bomb she's wearing is a Muslim, or if the guy launching a smart bomb from a remote location has an eagle, its talons gripping a flaming cross tatooed on his chest. The results are the same.
The delusions of all these people may bring about the destruction of all of us - deluded or not.
Ruvy is so inured in his faith, just as any number of other Jews, Muslims and Christians are, that he can't fathom any other possibilities.
His admonitions are so similar to those I've encountered from evangelical Christians - absolute certainty of his salvation and equal conviction concerning the tragic end of all who don't find and follow the right path.
The terminology varies, but Ruvy is, nevertheless a Raptile. He absolutely believes that the final atonement is at hand. Sadly, the same assertions have been made for centuries and, even sadder, will likely go on for centuries more. Each generation of true believers becomes so egotistical that they believe the "Judgement" is going to take place during their life time. Someone always finds a way to interpret "prophecies" so that they are convinced that it's all going to happen on their watch.
When "the end of days" does not take place as predicted, I presume all the erstwhile doomsday adherents must then scramble to find a reason why we are all still here drawing breath. Perhaps some wise up. Some probably lose all hope and go jump off a bridge, while others, the true die hards, just regroup and adjust their interpretations to fit a new paradigm, and go at it again. There will always be a fresh crop of newbies, the wide eyed, the uninitiated who will fall in line, divest themselves of their worldly goods and wait for god's spaceship or gaggle of winged angels or by whatever conveyance that will scoop them up to eternal bliss.
Good luck with that.
B-tone
45 - Irene Wagner
I'm a wuvver not a writer! How to answer all this?
46 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Irene,
If you really want to answer Baritone, reread comment #20 first - carefully. I can't answer now. Work calls...
47 - Christopher Rose
And faced with words more compelling than those written in outdated old books, the faithists bail...
48 - Ruvy in Jerualem
Baritone,
I never did figure out "Raptile". My 20 pound, 2,000 page Websters New Twentieth Century Dictionary (Unabridged) went from "rapter," an obsolete word for rapist, to "raptor," a hunting bird.... Maybe it's one of them new crqpdoodle words, like "faithist."
But I did figure out what you mean by "invective". Evidently, to you, invective is when a person who believes in G-d opens his mouth. Whatever comes out, by definition, is "invective"....
49 - Christopher Rose
Long on spluttering and sarcasm, short on any actual intelligent response...
50 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"Long on spluttering and sarcasm, short on any actual intelligent response...."
As I said in comment #20,
MY big beef with Christiane Ananpour's trash is not that she points out the dangers of "G-d's Warriors" but that she distorts Jews in Israel who believe firmly in messianic Redemption into something that we are not. But CNN has been doing that for a long time now. She only fits in with the mold.
While this article from CAMERA does not represent ALL my objections to CNN's trash and its distortions of Israel and Jews, it is a fairly good start.
So shut up and read.
51 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Oh yeah,
And if you want invective, I'll send it to your private e-mails, so that Christopher Rose cannot edit it out, and you know just how nasty invective can get - and what it really contains...
52 - Arch Conservative
It seems as if everyone wants to equate the troubles of modern christianity with the troubles of modern islam and suggest that the levels of violence expressed by the fundamentalists of each faith are comparable.
Never have I seen such ignorance and stupidity....
Oh wait..yes I have......I've been hanging around BC for quite some time now.
53 - Baritone
A "Raptile" (aka a Raptarian - both my own coinage,) for the uninitiated are those mainly christian uh, crapdoodles (for lack of a better word) who ascribe to the scenario depicted in LaHaye and Jenkins' Left Behind series of, well, crapdoodle books wherein the true followers of jesus will suddenly and without prior notice be swept up to heaven leaving behind all of the rest of us heathens who will then be left to endure Satan's wrath and yada, yada, yada...
Perhaps Ruvy believes that Amanpour got it right in her depiction of muslims and christians, but presented only "trash" when it came to jews - the one and only "put upon" and misunderstood people of the world.
Israel is an anomaly in this world. Had the Holacaust not occured and/or were the Israelis people of color, few in the world would notice their plight. Had they ever been able to establish their country in the first place, owing to the situation in the middle east and its vast and hotly sought after oil deposits, Israel would likely have been very short lived and now be but a tiny blip in the history books.
I know the above is an ugly charge, but given what has been allowed to happen in Rwanda, the Sudan and other countries over the years, I don't believe it to be a stretch.
I would also say to Ruvy that what you believe is also irrelevant to me. You can believe that god incarnate is actually a Pez dispenser with the characature of Papa Smurf atop. I don't really give a rat's ass. But between radical zionist jews, and nutball muslims and christians, you could well send yourselves and most of the rest of us down in flames in defence of your faith and your "holy" land.
"Believer's" pursuit of an imaginary god's redemption is ludicrous and in this nuclear age presents the prospect of total annihilation.
B-tone
54 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, why don't you expand on the bald statement that Ms Amanpour distorts what messianic Jews are about by explaining where, in your view, she goes wrong and what the reality, as you see it, really is.
Simply making the statement you did, even by effectively shouting by putting part of your comment in bold doesn't really get you. or us, anywhere.
Furthermore, as I've told you before, linking to material off site and putting the rude imperative "read" isn't very attractive. Make your own case.
I'll do you the favour of ignoring your #51 and its threatening tone but I'll thank you not to do that again. Please. I know you just do that because you still can't come up with an intelligent response to Baritone's #14
Arch Conservative: Talking of intelligent responses, you do have another choice; you could just like, you know, tuck your oh so well thought out opinions in your pocket and fuck off... But we know you love it here really, you just can't quite bring your self to step out of the closet of stupid. But one day, one day...
55 - Lee Richards
I, for one, wait fruitlessly for the believers to present one shred of evidence for the truths they shout about.
All we ever get is, "it is written", "it was prophesied", "scripture says," "God said to___", and "you'll be sorry some day."
Imagination, interpretation, wishful thinking.
Not evidence, not rational knowledge, not logic, not facts.
Do you buy, based on advertising claims alone? Do you vote based on facts, or fantasies? Do you want empirical knowledge from the doctor, or is faith alone good enough?
Do you require evidence or proof for anything in life, or are sincere beliefs, strong feelings, and accepting an arbitrary authority for everything good enough?
I would prefer living in an Age of Enlightenment to being trapped in the Middle Ages, myself.
56 - Doug DeLong
"G-d's Warriors"
Ruvy,
Just for my own edification, what's with the missing "O" in God? I'm guessing that you do it because you think the word is so sacred that it can't even be printed, kind of like Muslims get peeved if you print an image of Muhammed. But, you know, when you write it like that, it kind of makes "God" look like a 4-letter word. Well, a 3-letter 4-letter word, anyway.
57 - Dr Dreadful
As Ruvy and others have pointed out, "proving" the existence of God is a rather meaningless exercise. You either have faith that he exists or you don't.
That said, the most compelling attempt at a proof for the existence of a Supreme Being/Creator is the one posited by St Thomas Aquinas. In basic terms, St Thomas reasoned that because every thing and event in the universe has a cause, if you extrapolate far enough back you must eventually arrive at a Prime Cause - i.e. God.
The fundamental weakness of this argument, though, is that it assumes there indeed is a Prime Cause. It also does not answer the question of what caused God.
58 - Lee Richards
Dr. D:
I understand that faith is central to religious belief. I have no problem with that.
But then to present that faith as if it is literal proven fact and argue that it is, therefore, unquestionable truth--which many in all religious traditions do constantly--is illogical, irrational, and false...isn't it?
59 - MAOZ
Doug #56 re looking like a 3-letter 4-letter word: Yes, I noticed that myself years ago. That's part of the reason why I've come to prefer using ^ rather than - . Another reason being that my preferred option suggests looking up (metaphorically at least).
60 - Dr Dreadful
To outside observers, definitely.
Although millions of words have been written attempting to prove the contrary - by those for whom, in their hearts, there is no doubt. From an internal perspective, having absolute faith trumps any possible proof.
Where things start to get unpleasant is when such people fail to appreciate that others may not view the universe in the same way they do.
61 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Well, Baritone, now we know what a "raptile" is. That is the kind of thing you can use arguing with (or against) Christians. This kind of stuff just doesn't apply to Jews. In truth, your arguments against religion seem mostly directed against Christianity. Jews seem to get nary a mention. If you don't give a rat's ass what I believe, know that the feeling is mutual.
I do not necessarily think that Ananpour got it right with either Moslems or Christians in her show, but I leave it to them to do the arguing for their own cause. It ain't my problem.
"Israel is an anomaly in this world."
This is the first intelligent thing I have seen you write on the subject. You are right - far more than you know. We Jews are not supposed to be alive at all, and this country is not supposed to even exist. We, like the Hittites and the Alans, should be extinct by now, lost in history's garbage pail along with all the other little nobodies who have disappeared.
But we aren't. We Jews have outlasted all of our persecutors from ancient times - the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks, the genocidal Romans.... And for all the efforts of you goyim to kill us, gas chambers included, we have still managed to survive.
Our state has survived not on your generosity, but on our guts and determination. Our terrorists drove the British from this land, kicked the scum out, and I'm damned proud of that. Israel is a stinking little third world country - but we have nuclear weapons, the best health system in the entire Middle East, the healthiest and best fed people in the entire Middle East, the second largest number of startups in the world, one of highest levels of home computer ownership. Our research leaves a lot of you eating our dust. This, all with the burden of a traitorous government that works to kill morale; a brain drain due to the government's policies; a criminal class (the government) - well supported by the mafia that calls itself the US government - that burdens us with policies that will kill us.
Some blip.
It's the anomalies in nature or history that should get your attention. Why are they there? What do they have to teach you?
Pay attention, Baritone. You might even learn something....
And with G-d's help and guidance, you may be privileged to see the day when the People of Israel are indeed G-d's Warriors.
62 - Lee Richards
Sorry, I don't understand why God needs warriors.
Nations do, yes;gods, no.
Doesn't that imply that:
1. God wants to use some of us to get rid of others of us;
2. We can figure out which is which on our own and,
3. If he does want some of us gone, he can't or doesn't want to do it for himself, but wants his children to be responsible for the killing, in his name and for his glory.
I'm very uneasy when the slaughtering starts in God's name. Hasn't history taught us that's not a real good idea?
63 - Irene Wagner
#47 were you talking to me, Christopher Rose?
I wasn't bailing, and haven't bailed. My GOODNESS, consider the length, which speaks to at least an ATTEMPT at thoroughness, of my typical comment, when I'm asked a SPECIFIC question about the words of Jesus.
It has been made ABUNDANTLY clear to me that atheists such as the one writing this article, or the producers of "God's Warriors" believe that people of faith are to have laid at their feet the blame for most of the world's evil. I'm thoroughly convinced that this is what they believe about me. What's there to argue about?
Besides, if because I identify with the name Christian, I'm to be put in the same class as psychopaths like Joseph Kony of Uganda's Lord's Resistance Army, what POSSIBLE chance is there for me to be taken seriously in this discussion?
I'm not going to disabuse any atheist of his low opinion of me by mere words. Actions and attitudes speak louder. I see a glimmer of kindness once in awhile at BC, but by and large, the opportunities to demonstrate it in ways that won't be misconstrued as condescending are scarce.
64 - Baritone
Ruvy,
You say: "It's the anomalies in nature or history that should get your attention. Why are they there? What do they have to teach you?"
You could ask yourself: What is it about Jews which has fomented so much hatred and persecution throughout history? Could it be your arrogance and presumption?
I'm sure you will take that in the assumption that I am anti-semetic. But in truth, I'm an equal opportunity opponent of religion. In my eyes jews are no better nor no worse than muslims or christians. You all mold your lives around a mythical, supposedly all powerful god who is either going to raise you up to eternal salvation or comdemn you to eternal hell. No matter what label you put on it. No matter how deeply complex your liturgy may be. It is all crap. Idiotic, wasteful crap.
Faith is NOT a virtue. It is, rather, irrational. It is one thing to have faith that the sun will rise in the morning. We have substantial proof that it will continue to do so. It is one thing to have faith in another human being. That faith may or may not be rewarded, but at least one can make reasonably rational judgements regarding another person's trustworthiness. And yet, hundreds of millions of people through their faith put their very lives and the lives of their loved ones, their neighbors, their countrymen in the hands of a mythical being for which there is absolutely no evidence supporting its existence.
Lee,
I have asked a similar question to yours: If god is omnipotent, why does he need us puny, insignificant little humans to do battle on his behalf? Presumably, with a blink of his lordly eye he could do away with everything and everyone.
The only possible answer is that god is an asshole playing a very cruel game. With a god like that, who needs the devil? Humans can and often do maintain a higher level of ethics and honor than any god who commands his followers to commit mass murder in his name.
But that begs the point. The point being that there is no such god. There are only us humans inventing gods and other equally specious reasons to wage war against our fellow humans.
65 - Lee Richards
It IS condescending to think that only one's views, efforts, beliefs, and values can contain, constitute, and communicate kindness.
No one has called Irene evil or a psychopath;those are strawmen she set up so she can swat them.
I know and respect many devout Christians and Jews. They're definitely not responsible for most of the world's evil. They're good people, and want the best for their families and society.
Most of them, however, think for themselves, indulge in independent scholarship, read, and ask questions.
What good is any faith that doesn't?
66 - Irene Wagner
Whatever your faith may be, Lee Richards, I hope that its value is enhanced by independent thought and scholarship, the practice of reading widely and thoughtfully, the maintenance of a healthy skepticism, as well as an openness to the ideas of others, and the continued kindness, fairness and respect with which you've treated me each time you've addressed me in BC.
67 - Lee Richards
And, in the spirit of the Golden Rule, I wish the same for you, Irene.
68 - Irene Wagner
Re: #64 Baritone. I was going to hold my peace until I read that comment. I'm afraid for you, Baritone. You are insulting not just my God, but YOURS, and with such VILE language--the One who gave you eyes and sight and things to see, ears to hear music, lungs to breathe the air he made.
I am STUNNED to hear of the disdain you have for things you know nothing about. The battles for God (I speak of spiritual battles of prayer and discourse and efforts against evils like poverty and disease ) engaged in by "us puny humans" are to shame powerful rebellious beings in realms you can't even imagine, beings who are perhaps pulling YOUR strings even now.
Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
and
Ephesians 6: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of his world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Be careful, Baritone. Do be careful. You have less to fear from all the zany fundamentalist armies of the world than you do from your own Creator. He doesn't owe you a thing, remember that. And yet, in his mercy, he made provision to cover the sin of your insolent, ungrateful, persistent REFUSAL to acknowledge the Source of any of the blessings you might have in your life. It's COINCIDENCE, it's COINCIDENCE, it's COINCIDENCE, you say. What parent, other than God, could endure patiently that kind of pigheadedness, day after day, and yet continue to pour out His blessing?
I'd start exploring God right now if I were you. Ruvy's, Zedd's, Baronious', STM's...Better you should get a sense of the Divine in a faith different from my own than remain in the UTTERLY graceless state you now inhabit.
Don't cry me your blues, either. I've known quadriplegics with more of a sense of gratitude to and respect for God than you have.
69 - Irene Wagner
If you still do, Lee Richards, then thanks much.
70 - Christopher Rose
And the lunacy is revealed for all to see...
71 - Irene Wagner
Oh, I didn't mean to make you feel left out, Christopher Rose. You may replace your name for Bari-tone's in comment #68.
72 - Baritone
Irene,
I appreciate your concern for my mortal soul. I don't share your concern, but nevertheless, I appreciate it. The fact is, I don't believe I have a soul.
I have been writing of my atheism for nearly 2 years now. I know others have been doing so much longer, and probably to better effect. But I have, especially in recent weeks, taken my game, as it were, to another level.
I am told by christians and others that in their opinion, I am going to hell. Now, from a christian's viewpoint that's as bad as it gets.
If your god is disturbed by my language, he can certainly do whatever he deems fit. I doubt that he needs you or anyone else to defend his honor.
To reiterate: Your god is omniscient. He knows all. That means he knows where I'm destined to spend eternity. That means that it's a done deal, does it not? I am predestined to my eternal fate. It matters not what I say, what I feel, what I write or what I do. My fate is already written in stone.
I didn't use the language above haphazardly. I figured it would have some shock value. That's the world we live in today. It's all about shocking people. I'm not a particular fan of it, but perhaps some of us non-believers need to "shock" some people out of their complacency about religion.
It is obvious that you are a true believer. Everything in your life flows through your faith and whenever you feel the need to make a point, you do it by quoting the bible. I won't go into my opinion of the bible, except to say that it is not a part of my life.
I don't "cry" my blues. I am not on the pity pot. I am not angry - at least not at god. I simply don't believe in god. I owe nothing to any god.
I prefer to face life rationally without any dependence on some etherial phantom.
B-tone
73 - Dan Hennessy
Dear Baritone, et al,
To consider Christiane Amanpour's opinion piece on CNN "a great bit of reporting" is absurd. What it amounted to was yet another slick, highly deceptive, production piece of liberal political propaganda by a mainstream news media outlet.
Below is the feedback I gave CNN on the subject... "for your reading pleasure."
"God's Jewish Warriors," hosted by Christiane Amanpour, is a one of the most grossly distorted programs I've ever observed in the mainstream media. It is false in its basic premise, established in the opening scene in which Jewish (and Christian) religious fervency is equated
with that of Muslims heard endorsing "martyrdom," or suicide-murder.
There is, of course, no counterpart among Jews and Christians to the violent jihadist Muslim campaigns underway across the globe, either in the numbers of perpetrators engaged or the magnitude of death and destruction wrought.
As a Holocaust educator, I find your distortions morally repulsive, not unlike presenting German civilian casualties by the Allied forces during WWII as the moral equivalent of Nazi genocide. Not to mention your decision to include the testimony of someone as unreliable as Jimmy Carter, which transformed Ms. Amanpour's program from a work of "journalism" to a work of anti-Jewish/anti-Israeli "propaganda." For instance, Jimmy Carter, was not soundly "criticized" for criticizing Israel's treatment of the Palestinians, he was soundly "criticized" for purveying multiple false statements about Israel and the Palestinians in his book, 'Palestine: Peace, not Apartheid.'
The same kind of empirical error that has been pointed out in Jimmy Carter's book can also be found in Ms. Amanpour's report for instance, when she states about the Temple Mount: "It was from here, according to Muslim scripture, that the Prophet Mohammed ascended to heaven around the year 630. But Hebrew scripture puts the ancient Jewish Temple in the same location, destroyed by the Romans in the year 70. For the next 1,900 years, even the last remnant of the Temple known as the Wailing Wall, or the Western Wall, was lost to the Jews."
For the record, Muslim scripture never refers to Jerusalem, it refers to Mohammed ascending to heaven from the "farthest mosque," which could not have been on the Temple Mount, since the mosque there wasn't built until well after the death of Mohammed.
In the future, please consider doing the morally correct thing and disclaim your intention to present journalism to your watching public, and be honest in declaring the truth about such programming as being in support of your news agency's editorial opinion/agenda.
Sincerely,
Daniel A. Hennessy
74 - handyguy
Yes, Dan, but how do you really feel?
Only a hotheaded extremist could call Amanpour a propagandist or Jimmy Carter anti-Jewish. Temper your rhetoric, and you might start to make more sense.
75 - Irene Wagner
That means that it's a done deal, does it not?
No, Baritone. It's not a done deal. I have no idea whether you will continue to walk down the road you are on, or will turn to your Creator God, and to your Redeemer, his Son Jesus.
God is so merciful, you could call out to him on your deathbed, and he would still hear you. I hope you don't wait that long, though.
You say you've taken your assault on God to a new level, to shake believers out of their complacency.
Well, you shook me out of my complacency, and you must expect, at this "new level" to shake other believers out of theirs, but not in the way you've expected. The stronger your attack on God is, the stronger their defense of God will be, not for God's sake, Baritone, but for yours, and for the sakes of people being deceived by your words.