Every few days some loon emails me a warning about the new uber-government of North America, but I'm still not buying it.
Being involved with political groups of a Libertarian persuasion, I get on the mailing lists of all sorts of well-meaning, but somewhat loony people on both the right and left of the political spectrum - and sometimes those two extremes are hard to tell apart. One of the things which is high on their list of concerns is the impending surrender of the sovereignty of the United States under the authority of a new continental government sometimes referred to as the 'North American Union'. I get a different email warning about it every few days.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - David Scrue
Good thing we're discussing this (perhaps imaginary) threat to our existence that I never heard of before so we don't have to contemplate the real horror of Iraq.
77 - Kris
Well the North American Union is coming... deny as much as you want. Sourcewatch.org
You people will be just as fucked by the NWO like we are in Europe ... I'm from belgium and the EU never did anything good for us ... it's totalitarion rule what they're after.
78 - Joe Blow in Cali
“The fact that there HAVE been conspiracies in the past does not mean that every goofy conspiracy that people come up with really exists. In general the conspiracies which are real are short-term and for very specific objectives. They are not the kind of vast, world-changing conspiracies the fanboys are so big on.”
I never said that all conspiracies are real, it is just the way come off; you make it sound like anyone who suggests a conspiracy is crazy from the get go. You use terms like “conspiracists” and “conspiracy theorists” as if we are a race of people: black, latino, white, conspiracy theorist; this tactic to discredit someone via name calling is of poor taste.
79 - Joe Blow in Cali
“Conspiracies which meet THAT definition are quite common. That simple definition is for things like a bank manager making a deal with burglars to get into his bank's safe. That kind of conspiracy is commonplace. That definition does NOT encompass massive secret conspiracies involving thousands of people over decades with the objective of changing the world in service of some obscure and nefarious agenda.”
Actually, that definition does “encompass” (include, cover, take in) massive secret conspiracies. “An agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act”. This blanket definition clearly covers the kind of conspiracy we are discussing here, it may not cover all the nuances of the situation, but to suggest that it doesn’t cover a NAU conspiracy is a perversion of the English language my friend. Also, the agenda is not obscure; it is nothing less than world government. It starts with consolidation of countries and once you set the precedent that you can join multiple countries together, you can then justify joining all those new unions into the world government.
80 - Joe Blow in Cali
“The 'criminals' inside our government didn't hit us with the FIRST 9/11, so why should we expect them to hit us with another one?”
Oh please, anyone who watches building 7 fall down in a perfect symmetrical fashion (like tower 1 and 2 I might add) can tell that there were explosives in the building. Buildings don’t collapse through the path of most resistance. Once you come to grips with that fact you will have to admit that the official story is false. Once you admit the official story is false you can join the rest of us in calling for a real investigation not some phony 9/11 commission report who refused to answer thousands of questions from 9/11 victim’s family members.
81 - Joe Blow in Cali
“People keep saying this, yet all I see from the public is cries for more freedom and more protection of our rights in the aftermath of 9/11.”
Of course the public is going to cry for more protection of our freedoms THEY ARE BEING STRIPPED AWAY! Why else would they be so concerned? Patriot Act I and II, military commissions act, so on and so forth. These acts are clear attacks on our Constitutional rights. The Patriot Act makes all crime terrorism! Once you are accused of being a terrorist you lose all rights as a citizen and all rights as a human because if you ask FOX news they will tell you accused terrorists are not human (I have seen this and nearly spit my lunch on the floor). The Constitution is not just a good idea, it is the law! Anyone who supports laws and actions that run counter to our Constitution are guilty of high treason (this means you - 99% of congress ‘Ron Paul excluded’ and the entire executive branch).
In conclusion, I’m just glad that you said you would not support a NAU if you were able to figure out that it was really happening. By the way, the European Union just celebrated its 50th anniversary http://europa.eu/50/news/article/070326_b_en.htm and they say it started with the trade deals between the six founding countries. So I guess we will be celebrating the 20th anniversary of the NAU in 2014 because Bill Clinton signed us into NAFTA in 1994.
82 - Brian Farmer
Here is a quote from David Rockefeller's memoirs:
"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with [Fidel] Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as “internationalists” and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure " one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
That's what's called a "confession." No conspiracy? There are none so blind as those who will not see.
83 - Clavos
Shorebreak,
The burden of proof is on you who allege the conspiracy to prove YOUR allegations to those of us who doubt you, not the other way around.
84 - DAvid
I notice you keep the free mason Illuminati eye at the top of your page. WHo pays you and why won't you come clean. Look at the FACTS, this NAFTA is the new European Union with the Amero, the one federal reserve and one government. Wake up.
85 - Shorebreak
Clavos,
I'm simply responding to the original opinion posted by Dave. He claims that
"If you read what the conspiracists claim and then look for the sources for their claims, you inevitably discover that some harmless idea has been reinterpreted as something radically different or that a single isolated example has been expanded on as part of a greater plan which doesn't really exist."
I've answered that challenge by requesting that the author take the different peices of evidence that he charges are used as "conspiracy theories" and state that they don't have any direct connections with each other.
I understand that you can't prove something that doesn't exist, so to eliminate any logic disconnect I'll rephrase my request to
"If you want to truly debunk the NAU "conspiratists" you should draw up a list of all of the players behind NAFTA, CAFTA, and the SPP, then state that they are NOT connected to each other, that the players DON'T serve a broader agenda, and that they are NOT associated with organizations whose leaderships have publicly declared that they are focused upon global economic and/or political integration."
I can promise you that such a statement will not be made by any educated person on this forum who value's their integrity. It would be shot down in a heartbeat, exposing the original post as nothing more than an attack with no merit whatsoever to support it's conclusions.
Would anyone care to make that statement?
86 - billg
come on dave, give me a break.
you cant be so naive as to think theres no agenda here.
i suppose our central banking system is just another way the govt was helping out american business? think of the money they have looted from us by inflating the money supply.
you mention the system of goverment that the founders designed. that sytem is gone. jefferson would be ticked if he knew we had adopted a central banking system, income tax, abortion, government education etc etc.
87 - Lumpy
Shorebreak. Have u ever heard of occam's razor?
And the burden of proof is not on the person supporting the mainstream interpretation of events, it's on those who believe in the conspiracies. And on this one the 'proof' is a joke.
I went to th SPP site and it's totally harmless. Not a thing there to back up the conspiracy theory.
Representatives of 3 governments meeting to discuss trade is called diplomacy not a conspiracy.
88 - ascended master
Us "Conspiracists" need not prove anything.When someone comes to you and says hey there are evil forces out there who have declared an all out war against the human race and they just so happen to be in positions of power in this world,that isnt a statement to be taken lightly. Any wise person would actually do some research to see for themselves if this threat is for real.The thing alot of people do is to automatically dismiss this as nutty conspiracy theory because well theyve been taught the exact opposite in government controlled school systems,and they see the exact opposite on tv.
Do your own research.I will not provide links and spoonfeed you people who are too lazy to do a few google searches.You want to learn the truth?you gotta go out and find it for yourself.Those who disclaim and debunk "conspiracy theories" do not realize that they are undermining the lifes work of hundreds if not thousands of credible scholars like Jordan Maxwell and Michael Tsarion and others.These people have studies the occult and government corruption worldwide for decades. People like Mr.Nalle who goes out and says there is no international conspiracy and your a nut if you believe otherwise,they are insulting the lifes work of these great scholars.And that is dispicable.
Id be more than happy to debate anyone on any of these issues but i suggest if you want to debate me,you better do your homework and you better know what your talking about.
The awakening continues....
89 - Rich B.
This author needs to get a Grip - seems to me he protesteth to much. And, if you think good people like Dobbs or concerned citizens like Jones are 'Nuts' then I guess you would of called our Father's that during the Revolution - "How dare they break free from the Crown!", "These folks are just crazy" - "The King is taxing us for our own protection!" - "How dare these 'buffoons' protest the intentions of our government in Britain?" YUP - WE KNOW YOUR TYPE.
Rich B. -American-
90 - Michael J. West
Us "Conspiracists" need not prove anything.When someone comes to you and says hey there are evil forces out there who have declared an all out war against the human race and they just so happen to be in positions of power in this world,that isnt a statement to be taken lightly.
It is a statement to be taken lightly when it is being spouted in an irrational manner by irrational people constantly and everywhere. The way you say this suggests that I, who live in a large metropolis where there are crackpots on every street corner, should be doing research into every sign I see that says Nancy Pelosi eats deep-fried babies that she's first sacrificed to Satan, or that the Bible says Jesus is coming back tomorrow with a flame thrower.
A person who makes outrageous claims without giving any support for those claims has no business asking people to take him/her seriously. Nice try, though, at ducking out of taking responsibility for your arguments.
91 - Lumpy
Hey billg. Is there anything that isn't a conspiracy in your book? How's the flouride in your water?
92 - ascended master
Look all im saying is do your own research before you dismiss these theories.The truth is these evil people in power like to write autobiographies and memoires bragging about how they are destroying our species.Go read their books and tell me there is no conspiracy theory.Again i wont spoonfeed you lazy people by providing links for you.Get off your ass and do some honest research like any level headed person would do.If you have two eyes and a brain it wont be very long before you discover the seriousness of these nutty conspiracy theories.
Dont call me a nut and run away.Stay and debate the facts with me.
The awakening continues....
93 - Lumpy
What I want to know is why conspiracy nuts can't form paragraphs. Isn't that a sign of emerging madness?
As for the great work and the respect that conspiracy researchers deserve, bunk! Obsessive crazy people do a lot of time intensive things that are totally worthless. Hitler put a lot of thought and years in jail into Mein Kampf. Does that mean we should respect his work and take it seriously? Oh wait. You conspiracy nuts probably agree with him. Are the jews secretly behind the NAU?
94 - Lumpy
Oh and on building 7. Let's say it WAS taken down by explosives. Not that there's a shred of evidence for it. Why would that prove anything but a conspiracy to make sure the building was eliminated for safety reasons or just to clear the site?
You do provide a good example though. It looks like building 7 was demolished by explosives. That's not evidence of a conspiracy. It's not even evidence the building was demolished. It's just an opinion and a pretty dumb one at that.
95 - Michael J. West
Oh, Jesus. Now we're going into the 9/11 conspiracies?
Folks, I've watched Loose Change. Twice. I don't know if that's what you call "doing your research," but, unlike most of the people who watched it, I've researched its claims. There is more cherry-picked evidence and flat-out wrong bullshit in that stupid movie than in the administration's case for WMD stockpiles in Iraq. And folks, that's a lot of bullshit.
Hope the 9/11 Truth movement has got better claims on its side than the ones in Loose Change, because anyone with any intellect would be embarrassed to have that movie representing their viewpoint.
96 - billg
lumpy,
hitler laid out his plan in mein kampf and then followed it as do our present day elites when they write something like PNAC. when they tell you another attack is not an if but a when...well.
it takes days or weeks to place charges and implode something the size of bldg 7 in its own footprint. that indicates foreknowledge.
97 - billg
by the way, my fouride is industrial grade waste as is yours.
thanks for asking.
98 - Clavos
am sez:
The thing alot of people do is to automatically dismiss this as nutty conspiracy theory because well theyve been taught the exact opposite in government controlled school systems
Yep, I "dismiss this as a nutty conspiracy theory," and never went a day of my life to a "government school;" either here or in Mexico, where I was born and grew up.
Do your own research.I will not provide links and spoonfeed you people who are too lazy to do a few google searches.You want to learn the truth?you gotta go out and find it for yourself.
Or you don't have any proof. I already know the truth; and it's not the hogwash you're peddling.
Those who disclaim and debunk "conspiracy theories" do not realize that they are undermining the lifes work of hundreds if not thousands of credible scholars like Jordan Maxwell and Michael Tsarion
Scholars?? Or nutcases??
The awakening continues....
Yaaaawwwnn.
99 - eebie
WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?
100 - Dave Nalle
That's what's called a "confession." No conspiracy? There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Confession? He's confessing to bein an intertnationalist. Lots of people are. He's not confessing to the conspiracy business, he's deriding it. I wonder how much of this conspiracy nonsense just comes from dimwitted people not being able to properly read and understand quotes like the one from Rockefeller.
Dave
101 - Dave Nalle
Its kind of funny how Dave knows so much about something that apparently doesnt exist....
I know so much about it because all the information is out there and publicly available, and if you look at the very documents on which people base their claims of a conspiracy they definitively prove that there is NOT a conspiracy anywhere but in the minds of the paranoid.
Those of you who refuse to acknowledge the existence of plans for a NAU,you just have failed to look into the matter.
But if you look into it with an open mind you don't find the proof you claim.
The heads of state for Canada,the US,and Mexico have met several times in the past discussing plans for integration which is publicly known as the SPP.
Improving trade relations and border security does NOT add up to a unified single government.
The Trans Texas corridor the new NAFTA highways etc are being built for the purpose of integration,and is part of the reason the government refuses to secure the US-Mexico border.
Except that they AREN'T being built. Aside from the TTC they don't exist even on paper, and the TTC only exists on paper at this point.
It is admitted that the government does pay people to go online and personally attack people and debunk any theories that goes against the governments official version.
Admitted by who? Show me some proof. No one has offered me any money to do it. Who's paying your bills to spread and support this nonsense?
Thats not conspiracy theory,thats conspiracy fact...look it up.
Look it up where? infowars.com?
It states here that personal attacks are not allowed,yet the writer of the article(one Dave Nalle)is free to personally attack people like Alex Jones and Lou Dobbs calling them lunatics and professional fearmongerers. This is total nonsense and should be unacceptable in the less than credible world of journalism.
They're public figures and I can attack them all I want. All I'm doing is accurately describing the nature of their public actions.
The real lunatics and fearmongerers are in government and on television telling you to fear terrorism,fear every disease,fear global warming,fear for your kids,fear for your pets,fear al quaeda under the bed,fear comets crashing on top of your head,
How is what Lou Dobbs does any different from spreading fear on any of these other topics, many of which are just as bogus as the NAU, but some of which are at least marginally real. Don't you see that the media acceptance given to Dobbs proves that his type of fear mongering is acceptable to the media you say is lying to you?
Again the only people who hate peace and freedom are the evil people in power who carry out terror attacks like 9-11
That would be al Qaeda and a bunch of associated groups backed by certain middle eastern governments.
as an excuse to go to war and end peace and who are passing laws which takes away your fundamental rights and freedoms.
Last I checked the Saudis couldn't pass laws in the US.
I cant say much for those who agree with Mr.Nalle,but most people actually have brains on their heads and can see through the lies.
That's what I'm banking on, AM.
The 911 truth movement is growing by leaps and bounds every year.
And it remains utterly full of crap. See my earlier post on the subject of the 9/11 truth movement fraud.
So you people can write articles trying to keep people stupid all you want,its not going to work.
I'm not trying to keep people stupid, I'm trying to counter their natural tendancy to be stupid, and it clearly isn't easy.
Next thing you know people will be thrown in a military prison and tried for treason for disagreeing with government polices...its part of legislation that was passed in America last October called the military commissions act.
Have you READ the MCA. Can you tell me the circumstances under which it could be applied to a regular citizen who just criticizes the government? Do you have anything in your head that hasn't been put there by liars and fools?
But hey dont believe me,look it up for yourself.
That's just it. I have. And when I look it up the evidence doesn't support the conspiracists positions.
Or you can continue taking your world views from people like Mr.Nalle and Bill Oreilly and all these other debunkers who are probably working on behalf of their superiors to debunk the truth.
Here's the difference. We both say 'go look at the evidence'. The difference is that when you actually DO look at the evidence it supports my position, not yours.
I wont say anything else except,you must be a gullible idiot to believe anything your told by our slavemasters in government
Admittedly, our government leaves a lot to be desired, but how is the paranoid fantasy you've accepted any better than the truth?
who think your stupid and think of you as "useless eaters" and ultimately plan to kill you to rid the world of what they call "certain undesirables" namely anyone who wont submit to their tryanny.Dont be an idiot, look it up.
I'd really like to know where I can look that up.
Dave
102 - Dave Nalle
credible scholars like Jordan Maxwell and Michael Tsarion
This sentence says everything there is to say about the gullibility of those who believe in these conspiracies.
Jordan Maxwell believes in UFOs, astrology and that the world is secretly run by sun-worshipping Canaanites. He's a lunatic and a proven con man who was fined by the FTC for running a false international drivers license scam.
Michael Tsarion thinks that people have psychic powers, that he's a reincarnated atlantean, that the earth was artificially constructed by aliens, and that the world is secrety controlled by the 'black pope' whatever the hell that is. He's not a credible scholar, he's a nutjob or at best a bizarre narcissistic fraud.
If these people are your idea of 'scholars' then you have no credibility at all.
Dave
103 - Michael J. West
Dont call me a nut and run away.Stay and debate the facts with me.
What facts?! How is it that you can pointedly refuse to present any facts, then insist that people debate the facts with you?
If you want a debate, provide something to debate about!
104 - Man Fading
Oh Daaave, can you say GULF OF TONKIN, USS LIBERTY, POLISH INVASION, REICHSTAG FIRE, NORTHWOODS? Do you actually deny that false flag ops have never been executed or exist? Whether you believe the 9-11 truthers or not really is irrelevent and only a reflection of your close mindedness. Even Pearl Harbor was investigated 9 times Dave. Is it so inconvenient that the government that is suppose to work for the people actually work for the people? Guys like you Dave will be the first in line for an R.F.I.D. chip. I'd rather be labeled a conspiracy nut than a brain dead lemming, and I'd rather die at the hands of terrorism than be enslaved by my own government. Be American, question authority Dave.
105 - Dave Nalle
Again, the fact that there ARE conspiracies does not mean that every conspiracy is real.
What you don't grasp, MF is that you are the 'brain dead lemming', because you don't question the conspiracies, only the government.
I question both. Read some of my other articles. I've written plenty on REAL threats from the government.
The problem is that these nutty conspiracies work to discredit and diminish efforts to address genuine threats and problems.
Real ID is a perfect example. It IS a genuine threat. But when you come in talking about tracking chip implants as part of the program then you make all of us who are concerned about it look just as idiotic as you are. The chip is in the ID, not implanted in people, and when you claim otherwise you discredit all of us who want to block the program.
Dave
106 - shuurou
DAVE.. lol... If NAU isnt being talked about behind close doors, then why are states perparing for it "not" to happen... Or trying to prevent it "from" happening.. NOW THATS COMMON SENSE. Go ahead and try to undermind the people that actually see the wrong things happening in the U.S.A. RFID Chips "CAN" TRACK PEOPLE DAVE!!!! ITS PRACTICALLY THE SAME THING THEY PUT IN PETS NOW DAYS.. oh but i guess they dont put things in pets that track them eh? or is that a conspiracy too eh? lol. The CFR wrote about the NAU PUBLICLY. LOOK IT UP. its not a conspiracy... YES THE CFR!!!!! SO IS THE CFR A CONSPIRACY TOO? LOL. You can say these things to people all day long, and try to whitewash the REAL DEAL of it all, all you want. BUT. When the Act is turned down by the people, then how you goning to say they never tryed to make it happen? Time will tell... oh and by the way... 73% of AMERICA does believe 911 was a inside job mr.. Once you LOOK at the facts and understand that jet fuel along with debis "CANT" MAKE IRON MELT, maybe you too will wake up. BUT, maybe you are payed and bought. To say these things arnt happening... When it all hits the fan.. Remember.. What you stood for and what you beleive... Then... try and sleep at night.. But, I guess that wouldnt be a problem, if someone is moraly evil now would it? I just hope you dont beleive in after life mr. I hope your beleifs will protect you from the things that will eventually happen. I hope your famliy loves you and I hope your children do too. Cause when my child grows up and asks me why the american people didnt stop these things from happening before it was too late. I'll just say there were to many "daves" out there for anything to actually get done. You know whats better than a conspiracy theory dave? The truth my friend... the truth..
THE KOMBUCHA MUSHROOM PEOPLE,
SITTING AROUND ALL DAY,
WHO CAN BELIEVE YOU,
WHO CAN BELIEVE YOU,
LET YOUR MOTHER PRAY......
107 - Man Fading
NAU is real and Bill Richardson is just the man to pull it off. Vote Ron Paul
108 - ascended master
I know so much about it because all the information is out there and publicly available, and if you look at the very documents on which people base their claims of a conspiracy they definitively prove that there is NOT a conspiracy anywhere but in the minds of the paranoid.
Forget about documents for a second.What about whats happening to the country itself.American culture has turned into a culture of fear.All these new security measures are being implemented which treats the average citizen like a potential terrorist.They tell us there are bad people out there who want to destroy our freedom because they resent to way we live(which makes absolutely no sense in the world of rationality)Its fear this fear that 24/7 for anyone who actually watches tv .What about the growing poverty?Two million plus people unemployed and that doesnt include poor children and poor elders and people who have been out of work for less than 6 months if you add it all up that two million number is raised significantly.The value of money is going down yet prices keep going up.The price of health care has risen substantially and there are millions of people who cant afford the hospital care they need for their ailments hence they are turned away.Americas economy is going to hell in a handbasket and that means devastation for the middle class. The superpower that was America is now slowly becoming a third world country and leaving the borders open for illegal immigrants doesnt help.Why would this be? Could it be because the only way to achieve worldwide totalitarianism is to abolish the world superpowers and to institute a police state to keep any dissenters in line.That exact agenda is manifesting itself all around us as i am typing these words, this is what is happening outside your doors .Call me paranoid for saying i dont agree with it.
Now you can choose to believe that all of this is coming about naturally and for our own good rather than seeing that its happening purposefully and the people who are setting up this world wide third world country/prison state only care about their own interests,their own powers,thats why politicians seem to totally disregard the will of the people in terms of instituting policy.What is the major malfunction in the minds of those who trustingly soak in all the LIES spewed onto them by their masters in government and who defend their abusers with their lives.How you fail to see how youve been conned is really astonishing.
Improving trade relations and border security does NOT add up to a unified single government.
You say they are improving trade relations and border security?...well show me the results.Where are the results? Certainly trade relations has not improved at all in fact it has gotten worse and the worsening state of the economy is evidence of that.The SPP has existed for years now and we only continue to see the economic situation worsen.See Dave,they are taking you by the hand and telling you that they only want to improve trade relations and border security thinking you are dumb enough to believe them.As for border security well i dont have to elaborate much on that one, any person who keeps up with the goings on in america knows the horrid state of border security.I guess if they wanted to improve trade relations and secure the borders they sure as hell failed miserably, in which case they shouldnt be in power.OPEN YOUR EYES MAN.
Except that they AREN'T being built. Aside from the TTC they don't exist even on paper, and the TTC only exists on paper at this point.
Plans for the new NAFTA highways with toll checkpoints and 24 hour camera surveillance doesnt even exist on paper? So i guess we just make this stuff up from the top of our heads...A simple google search will show that they DO exist and many workers who are building it are coming forward with what they know.As for the TTC,so i guess a huge highway spanning the length of most of north america has nothing to do with integration oh no.Its all for the betterment of trade relations little slave,NOW SHUT UP AND STOP ASKING QUESTIONS,BELIEVE WHAT YOUR TOLD AND YOU WONT BE PERSONALLY ATTACKED BY THE CONTROLLED MEDIA AND POSSIBLY THROWN IN PRISON.
Admitted by who? Show me some proof. No one has offered me any money to do it.
Again,a simple google search would show that yes the government has admitted to paying in total millions of dollars to hire people to go out there and disclaim and debunk the truth movement,and i wont put a silver spoon in your mouth by providing the link,but its there if you really want to find it.No one has offered you money so i suppose that means your willfully helping the evil bastards in power destroy the country,whether you realize it or not,by suppressing the truth and spreading disinformation and personally attacking anyone who does.
How is what Lou Dobbs does any different from spreading fear on any of these other topics, many of which are just as bogus as the NAU, but some of which are at least marginally real. Don't you see that the media acceptance given to Dobbs proves that his type of fear mongering is acceptable to the media you say is lying to you?
Dave i cant disagree with you here. Of course i realize hes no different from the rest of the talking heads on tv who spread fear about every topic...but did you ever stop and think maybe thats why they gave him his own tv show,prime-time?
That would be al Qaeda and a bunch of associated groups backed by certain middle eastern governments.
Name the associated groups and the certain middle eastern governments.You people keep telling people like me to provide evidence and name names well im telling you to do the same thing. Oh by the way, Al Quaeda was set up with CIA money its leaders are CIA backed and they are training terrorists with CIA money and thats admitted in CIA documents look it up on their website CIA.ORG where they also admit that Bin Laden is one of their agents.
Last I checked the Saudis couldn't pass laws in the US.
First of all,"Saudis" dont pass laws,the government of that country does,head by the Saudi Royal family.Second,the Bush family and the Saudi royal family have been the closets of political partners and the closets of friends for decades,many members of the Royal family have big time shares in Americas top oil companies.I think "Saudi" influence on american society shouldnt be laughed at entirely.
And it remains utterly full of crap.
I guess the majority of citizens of this world are full of crap then.No you are full of crap ,propagating the LIE that arabs with boxcutters outsmarted the NSA,CIA,FBI,NORAD and other defense organizations and attacked the most protected country in the world by flying highjacked planes into 3 out of 4 targets...im sorry but i laugh at you now.Now that is what i call gullible.
Have you READ the MCA. Can you tell me the circumstances under which it could be applied to a regular citizen who just criticizes the government? Do you have anything in your head that hasn't been put there by liars and fools?
Yes ive read the Military Commissions Act in its entirety and i was disgusted and appalled by what i was reading.The powers that a government would have with this act is something Hitler could only dream of.It states CLEARLY that anyone who disagrees with government policy CAN be labeled an unlawful enemy combatant and if its you, you can have SWAT teams come and take you away so you can be tried for treason,and the president has the power to execute anyone found guilty in their 3 panel military tribunal court system at will.My question to you is HOW FAR INTO THE MCA DID YOU READ MR.NALLE IF YOU READ IT AT ALL.Again dont believe me...type military commissions act in google and read the legislation for yourself.
Here's the difference. We both say 'go look at the evidence'. The difference is that when you actually DO look at the evidence it supports my position, not yours.
It seems to me that your position is synonymous with the governments official position. You talk to people like their stupid but you know what they really arent.They are going to look into the matters and they are gonna see that the so called loony conspiracy nuts were actually right.So many people are waking up and realizing just how evil the government is and they arent buying the crap anymore.I cant say the same for you Mr.Nalle but the majority of people does not trust a word the government says or any of the statistics or any information period they provide.People like you Dave,you are all a minority.The majority of people are waking up and its continue this way until there really wont be any denying it anymore,and thats when we are going to see some major changes on this planet.
who think your stupid and think of you as "useless eaters" and ultimately plan to kill you to rid the world of what they call "certain undesirables" namely anyone who wont submit to their tryanny.Dont be an idiot, look it up.
I'd really like to know where I can look that up.
How about going and reading the UN Population Control documents on their website for starters....or the PNAC documents on their website. Or read the autobiographies of people like David Rockefeller and one of the Oppenheimer's (i cant remember the first name, its hard to pronounce so sue me) or the memoirs of Henry Kissinger.Look it doesnt take someone with a PHD to sift through the lies and read between the lines.It just takes someone who approaches these things with an open mind and who have no preset world view they will use to edit and dismiss the information they will receive.
Id like to close by saying im glad we can have an open debate with both views expressed equally well.This is the kind of debate we need at the top levels of politics but unfortunately for us the head politician's absolutely refuse to discuss these things in an open public debate.The rational mind will ask why? The intuitive thinker will understand that they just dont want people to be aware of any of these theories period.Which raises the question why will they not talk about it if its all nonsense and all these theories are just the product of wacky conspiracy theorists...the answer is quite clear because there are elements of truth behind these wacky nonsense conspiracy theories and truth is the last thing they want to bring to public attention.
Aswell, i would like to say i will be leaving my country for a few weeks so i will not be able to respond to anyone who responds to this response,until i get back of course.So feel free to continue to attack me and debunk my claims all you want,it really makes me feel good.
To all those out there spreading light and truth and fighting the good fight, keep it up you brave souls,WE WILL WIN THIS INFO-WAR !
The awakening continues.....
109 - Lumpy
Shuru. Let's see a link to a real scientific poll that shows 73 percent think 9/11 was an 'inside job'.
110 - Clavos
Here's a good opinion piece on Loose Change.
The author is Mark Davis, a columnist for the Dallas Morning News.
111 - Man Fading
here's a cnn poll 83% but not scientific.
112 - Dave Nalle
Let me help out with that polling info. One of the few polls that actually asked the silly question of how many people believe that the government was behind 9/11 is this poll from the Scripps/Howard group. It found that about a third of those polled (not 73%) thought that the government might have known or been involved in the attack on the WTC.
Even that high a number is a troubling testament to the success of the conspiracymongers. It's a good argument in support of a republic instead of a pure democracy.
Dave
113 - Dave Nalle
MF, that link doesn't actually work. It's also an online poll - which is about the most innacurate you can have, and from what I was able to find it seems to have been a poll of who thought the government covered up details of the attack - a much broader issue - not who thought the government was behind the attack.
Dave
114 - Dave Nalle
I'm going to respond to ascended master, because he's one of the few here who seems to be halfway coherent.
Forget about documents for a second.What about whats happening to the country itself.American culture has turned into a culture of fear.
I don't see it. I see no greater fear among people I interract with than before 9/11. No one is worried about terrorism or much of anything else as far as I can tell.
All these new security measures are being implemented which treats the average citizen like a potential terrorist.
They are? Perhaps you could provide some details because I don't see them. The PATRIOT Act has some fucked up stuff in it, but very little of it imposes on the day to day life of average people.
They tell us there are bad people out there who want to destroy our freedom because they resent to way we live(which makes absolutely no sense in the world of rationality)
That's political rhetoric and has very little meaning or impact. There ARE people out there who are eager to destroy us, but the reasons are quite a bit more complex.
Its fear this fear that 24/7 for anyone who actually watches tv .
The one fear I see being promoted above any others by an enormous amount is the fear of child abductions. I'll give you that one. The rest of it isn't getting reported out of proportion. Hell the major news networks ignore half the terrorism that's going on out there.
What about the growing poverty?
What growing poverty? There are fewer people in poverty today - even with a cut-off for poverty which goes up every year - than there have been in decades.
Two million plus people unemployed
That's historically low unemployment. Remarkably low, in fact.
and that doesnt include poor children and poor elders and people who have been out of work for less than 6 months if you add it all up that two million number is raised significantly.
Yes, but we haven't changed the way unemployment is assessed and the fact remains that there is virtually no one who wants a job who can't get one. What we actually have is an increasingly serious labor shortage.
The value of money is going down yet prices keep going up.
Well duh. If the value of money goes down the price of goods goes up. But in fact, inflation is at a low rate and the CPI has been increasing at a rate lower than the rate of increase of wages.
BTW, I'm not going to provide sources here on all of this. I've written extensively with exhaustive supporting data on all of these subjects - check my writer page (link after article) to look up any of these topics.
The price of health care has risen substantially and there are millions of people who cant afford the hospital care they need for their ailments hence they are turned away.
I'll give you that healthcare needs some serious work. There are a number of viable solutions. The trick is getting the feckless government to agree on a reasonable one.
Americas economy is going to hell in a handbasket and that means devastation for the middle class.
So stunningly untrue. We're in a near boom economy and the middle class is the main beneficiary unless you're with the Dems who define the middle class as only those just above the poverty level.
The superpower that was America is now slowly becoming a third world country and leaving the borders open for illegal immigrants doesnt help.
Really? Studies show that a reasonable level of immigration raises wages and employment for the native population and generally helps the economy.
Why would this be? Could it be because the only way to achieve worldwide totalitarianism is to abolish the world superpowers and to institute a police state to keep any dissenters in line.That exact agenda is manifesting itself all around us as i am typing these words, this is what is happening outside your doors .Call me paranoid for saying i dont agree with it.
You're paranoid. There's no evidence of any of the things you suggest are happening.
Now you can choose to believe that all of this is coming about naturally and for our own good
Actually, I'll start out by saying that most of it is a load of misinformed twaddle.
rather than seeing that its happening purposefully and the people who are setting up this world wide third world country/prison state only care about their own interests,their own powers,thats why politicians seem to totally disregard the will of the people in terms of instituting policy.What is the major malfunction in the minds of those who trustingly soak in all the LIES spewed onto them by their masters in government and who defend their abusers with their lives.How you fail to see how youve been conned is really astonishing.
We ALL act in our own self-interest, and the self-interests of all the different power groups and powerful individuals work against each other to make sure that no one achieves a dominant position without being dragged down by others. From what I can tell you're so consumed with irrational hatred and jealousy that you can't see how the world really works.
You say they are improving trade relations and border security?...well show me the results.Where are the results?
I said that is the purpose of the SPP. I also don't think the SPP has done much of anything yet. It seems a fairly useless organization.
Certainly trade relations has not improved at all in fact it has gotten worse and the worsening state of the economy is evidence of that.The SPP has existed for years now and we only continue to see the economic situation worsen.
Actually, there has been some progress in improving limited areas of the Mexican economy, but the SPP isn't actually doing much of anything, true. I'd think that would make you happy.
See Dave,they are taking you by the hand and telling you that they only want to improve trade relations and border security thinking you are dumb enough to believe them.As for border security well i dont have to elaborate much on that one, any person who keeps up with the goings on in america knows the horrid state of border security.
Ah, you don't understand what the SPP means by border security. The SPP doesn't give a rat's ass about mexicans coming to the US. That's not what it's about. The border security it's concerned with is closing off the entirety of north america to 'undesirables' from outside the region.
I guess if they wanted to improve trade relations and secure the borders they sure as hell failed miserably, in which case they shouldnt be in power.OPEN YOUR EYES MAN.
The AREN'T in power. That's the whole point. The SPP is just a bunch of bureaucrats blathering and holding occasional meetings. It has no teeth, no resources and no power.
Plans for the new NAFTA highways with toll checkpoints and 24 hour camera surveillance doesnt even exist on paper?
By 'on paper' I mean in the form of legislation and actual development plans. Yes, people have made proposals and drawn maps. So what?
So i guess we just make this stuff up from the top of our heads...
No, you did the usual. You take some minor proposal or far-fetched idea and then act as if it's in the final planning stages when in reality nothing is being done with it.
A simple google search will show that they DO exist and many workers who are building it are coming forward with what they know.
Show me a link on this, because aside from some crazed ranting I can't find any legit information. The only thing which is close is NASCO, which uses existing highways and has as its main objective improving those roads to facilitate interregional trade. They specifically state that the TTC isn't even part of their system. They just want to get rid of some of the congestion on I-35 and make it easier for cargo to cross borders. More trade with Mexico and Canada is NOT a bad thing.
As for the TTC,so i guess a huge highway spanning the length of most of north america has nothing to do with integration oh no.Its all for the betterment of trade relations little slave,
The TTC is a giant wad of pork dreamed up by Rick Perry and it's mostly a pipe dream. No other states have indicated any intention to join in the project. It's a huge scam, but it's not part of some nationwide system, much though it may want to be.
Again,a simple google search would show that yes the government has admitted to paying in total millions of dollars to hire people to go out there and disclaim and debunk the truth movement
The 'truth movement' - now there's a cynical misnomer. So you mean that the government pays researchers and academics to do studies in association with FIMA and the NIST, and they present actual scientific fact and you don't like it?
,and i wont put a silver spoon in your mouth by providing the link,but its there if you really want to find it.No one has offered you money so i suppose that means your willfully helping the evil bastards in power destroy the country,whether you realize it or not,by suppressing the truth and spreading disinformation and personally attacking anyone who does.
No, it means I'm trying to stem the flow of paranoia and ignorance which is stirring up fear where it's unmerited and directing people away from the nation's REAL problems.
Name the associated groups
National Islamic Front, Islamic Courts Union, Islamic Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood, Ansar al Islam, the Taliban, Asbat al-Ansar, al Barakat, etc. etc.
and the certain middle eastern governments.
Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Syria.
Oh by the way, Al Quaeda was set up with CIA money its leaders are CIA backed and they are training terrorists with CIA money and thats admitted in CIA documents look it up on their website CIA.ORG where they also admit that Bin Laden is one of their agents.
Classic, perfect example of conspiracist distortion. Yes, the CIA funded the Mujahedin which became al Qaeda and supported bin Laden. But that doesn't mean they're still backing them. They were useful in the Afghan war with Russia and when we dropped them they went looking for other backing. The CIA also set up Reverend Moon. Does that mean moonies work for the CIA?
I guess the majority of citizens of this world are full of crap then.No you are full of crap ,propagating the LIE that arabs with boxcutters outsmarted the NSA,CIA,FBI,NORAD and other defense organizations and attacked the most protected country in the world by flying highjacked planes into 3 out of 4 targets...im sorry but i laugh at you now.Now that is what i call gullible.
Are you actually insane? Most protected country in the world? The US had virtually no security against this sort of attack and our intelligence agencies did little or nothing to follow up on leads prior to the attack. The remarkable incompetence and disorganization of our intelligence agencies is pretty well documented. It's the big scandal of the 9/11 attacks.
Yes ive read the Military Commissions Act in its entirety and i was disgusted and appalled by what i was reading.The powers that a government would have with this act is something Hitler could only dream of.It states CLEARLY that anyone who disagrees with government policy CAN be labeled an unlawful enemy combatant and if its you, you can have SWAT teams come and take you away so you can be tried for treason,and the president has the power to execute anyone found guilty in their 3 panel military tribunal court system at will.My question to you is HOW FAR INTO THE MCA DID YOU READ MR.NALLE IF YOU READ IT AT ALL.Again dont believe me...type military commissions act in google and read the legislation for yourself.
You may have read it, but you sure didn't understand it. The restrictions on when the MCA can be applied are very clear, and none of the ridiculous outcomes you describe are part of the act.
It seems to me that your position is synonymous with the governments official position. You talk to people like their stupid but you know what they really arent.They are going to look into the matters and they are gonna see that the so called loony conspiracy nuts were actually right.So many people are waking up and realizing just how evil the government is and they arent buying the crap anymore.
There's plenty to be concerned about with the government, but ridiculous conspiracies aren't the problem.
I cant say the same for you Mr.Nalle but the majority of people does not trust a word the government says or any of the statistics or any information period they provide.People like you Dave,you are all a minority.The majority of people are waking up and its continue this way until there really wont be any denying it anymore,and thats when we are going to see some major changes on this planet.
God I hope the majority of people aren't being duped by this conspiracy mongering. I like to think they're a little smarter than that.
To all those out there spreading light and truth and fighting the good fight, keep it up you brave souls,WE WILL WIN THIS INFO-WAR !
Ah, sorry I wasted time on all this. Didn't realize you were an Alex Jones drone.
Dave
115 - Kiayndr
Conspiracies which meet THAT definition are quite common. That simple definition is for things like a bank manager making a deal with burglars to get into his bank's safe. That kind of conspiracy is commonplace.
...what...?
...i have never heard of this...??
...come, on, that could never happen, next you will tell me Captain America is dead...
...what...?
...oh.
...symbolic...?
...or just another conspiracy...?
Kia
Revelation 21:4
116 - Merlin
We have a European Union, and lesser known, and not receiving any attention in the western press, we have a Asian Union consisting of a about 26 countries. Why would anyone not think we will have a North American Union? Could it be because of the Law of Disidence? People only believe in what they want to believe in. The distruction of the Constitution of the United States is not something anyone wants to believe in, except the architects of the union.
117 - Man Fading
The link does work...
118 - Dave Nalle
credible scholars like Jordan Maxwell and Michael Tsarion
This sentence says everything there is to say about the gullibility of those who believe in these conspiracies.
Jordan Maxwell believes in UFOs, astrology and that the world is secretly run by sun-worshipping Canaanites. He's a lunatic and a proven con man who was fined by the FTC for running a false international drivers license scam.
Michael Tsarion thinks that people have psychic powers, that he's a reincarnated atlantean, that the earth was artificially constructed by aliens, and that the world is secrety controlled by the 'black pope' whatever the hell that is. He's not a credible scholar, he's a nutjob or at best a bizarre narcissistic fraud.
If these people are your idea of 'scholars' then you have no credibility at all.
Dave
119 - Christopher Rose
You said that 16 comments ago, Dave!
120 - Michael J. West
Again,a simple google search would show that yes the government has admitted to paying in total millions of dollars to hire people to go out there and disclaim and debunk the truth movement
Is this related to the tangent conspiracy - my favorite part of the 9/11 "Truth" movement - that involves EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD, regardless of politics or ethnicity or national origin, knowing that the World Trade Center was destroyed ?
Ascended Master, you still haven't provided much in the way of facts. You've provided innuendo, hyperbole, and unfounded opinion. I frankly don't understand why you keep ending your comments with "The Awakening Continues," unless awakening means surrending one's faculties for logic, rationale, and basing one's conclusions on actual evidence.
121 - chris
Why does anyone even read this clown?? There are plenty of legitimate sources out there to prove that the North American Union is well on its way to happening.
Dave, you are a traitor and I hope you pay for spreading your ignorance. May your children forgive you for being the apologist for those who would end the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
122 - Clavos
More cacophony in the Tower of Babel...
123 - Joe Blow in Cali
Check this out... I know Wiki is not the best place to do research but here it is, in your face. Check out all the unions in the pipeline.
Continental union - Oh it is so innocent, they are just setting up unions for every continent. There is no world government forming. Nothing to see here folks. Go back to sleep. I hear the TV calling. Sleep... Sleep...
124 - gary
Dave has writeen an astounding missive.
Astoundingly lacking in truth, insight, and honesty.
Congratulations Dave. I can describe it in no other manner, than simply astounding.
125 - Dave Nalle
Why does anyone even read this clown?? There are plenty of legitimate sources out there to prove that the North American Union is well on its way to happening.
There are? Let's see some. And InfoWars.com is NOT a legitimate source.
Dave, you are a traitor and I hope you pay for spreading your ignorance. May your children forgive you for being the apologist for those who would end the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Chris, I'm about the strongest defender of the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and US Sovereignty you're likely to encounter. Read some of my other articles.
In my opinion, the people who promote conspiracy theories like this are the traitors, because by presenting such far fetched and untrue views of the world they help to discredit those of us who are fighting to oppose real threats to liberty and individual rights in the US.
To go back to an earlier example. The Real ID act actually does exist and is a REAL threat to personal privacy. But by misrepresenting and inflating what it does those who oppose it on the basis of the inflated fantasy weaken the argument of those of us who oppose it based on reality. When someone says that Real ID is going to result in tracking chips inserted under the skin of every citizen, he causes everyone who opposes the act based on what it really does to be lumped in with him as a reactionary kook. That's counterproductive.
Dave