Bush says the "jury is out" on evolution then warns that bird flu will evolve into a human to human strain.
George Bush illustrates the level of contradiction you must live with to be a conservative in America. First he says the "jury is out" on the theory of evolution, meaning he does not believe evolution is a "fact", then he warns the nation in a press conference that bird flu, heretofore only passed between birds, is poised to mutate and make the huge evolutionary leap to be able to be passed between humans.…
Article comments
26 - diana hartman
he simplified it for our tiny little minds
how could a "little mind" have figured out that something was simplified for it?
27 - steve
where do I sign up to be a nihilistic pinko bastard like some people on this blog?
28 - Nancy
Just look in the mirror, steve.
29 - Mark Schannon
Gonzo, me lad, and you've been soorly missed these long days or I'm a bleedin' leprechan! As fer me, 'fraid t'ere ain't enough time in der world fer all ta stuff I gotta do.
Between the new novel, posting on way too many sites, trying to make a living creating and then fixing crises...ah, but if the good Lord had only designed us so we didn't need to sleep.
Baronius, check recent literature. Scientists no longer talk about micro and macro evolution--that problem was fixed years ago. Sorry.
And Phil, your logic is illogical. It's not "If The Bushman believes in God, then he's an idiot. I believe in God, therefore I am an idiot."
It's "George Bush is an idiot. He also believes in God." The two statements are unrelated. Sorry--that alone can't make you an idiot. You have to do it all yourself. Yuk, yuk, yuk.
And to all a good night.
In Jamesons Veritas
30 - Eric Olsen
classic title!
31 - JR
Jim Bendewald: That is great for the imagination but that does not make it science.
Funny, I could say exactly the same thing about everything you've written. I did you the favor of describing how "new information" can be created; if you can blow that off so casually, what hope that you'll be open-minded to anything I present as evidence?
all you have to do is find any empirical evidence to demonstrate that I'm wrong. Since evolutionists claim that evolution is so well documented, that should not be too hard to find. Otherwise evolution as a well-founded established theory is all hype, isn't it?
You are asking me to put in the work here when you are the one who hasn't bothered to pay for and get the education and you are probably going to do your level best to deny the reasoning and evidence at every step of the way.
Seriously, what's in it for me?
32 - Jim Bendewald
JR said, "Funny, I could say exactly the same thing about everything you've written."
I started off explaining that the author did not understand the creationist point of view in regard to natural selection. I also stated that natural selection is a subtraction process. You said I was providing bogus information and asked where I got my information from. Understanding natural selection as a subtraction process is basic genetics. I provided a few quotes from a pro evolutionary source which also describes natural selection as a "weeding out" process and "genes will become more exclusive when the environment changes, or the species migrate." Explaining natural selection from a pro evolutionary source is providing evidence to support my view -- it is not an imaginative scenario.
You said, "Seriously, what's in it for me?"
Debating is not just about winning, it's about learning. I do not claim to be a scientist but I am on a quest to learn truth and communicate it as best I can. If I'm wrong I want to know it.
Richard Dawkins writes, "There is enough storage capacity in the DNA of a single lily seed or a single salamander sperm to store the Encyclopedia Britannica 60 times over." The Blind Watchmaker, (pp. 115-116). Now where does all that information come from, either in the hypothetical first cell or even in the hypothetical idea of evolving new creatures from pre-existing creatures? We are talking about massive amounts of highly detailed information.
Information scientist Dr. Warner Gitt, describes information, wherever it exists is in five levels. The five levels he describes are: statistics, syntax, semantics, application and purpose. Just as this forum displays all five levels so does DNA. DNA is the most highly compact form of information known. Where did that information come from if there is no intelligent designer who I call God? Steven Meyer describes information as a massless quantity. He then asks the question, how can a universe of matter and energy provide information which is not made up of either?
You said, "So while one copy stays the same, the other accumulates changes, becoming essentially a new text." Your scenario just cannot account for intelligent information required to assemble proteins, organelles and new organisms.
33 - Brandon
a closed mind brings ignorance and with it stupidity please understand we have more chance of MT. rushmore making itself than the theory of common ansestry being true I'm a 16 year old and know that please accept that either side could be wrong like Jim Bendewald here hes the only one who seems to know what hes talking about both creation and the heory of common ansestry (not evolution) are just theories and evolutions a part of both as i explained in my earlier post so once again find a more constructive debate topic and stop the abuse on what our president said it matters little to our pollitics
34 - Anthony Grande
The man doesn't believe in the fact of evolution just like many people. What does that have to do with anything???
35 - Timmy
The New York Times could save themselves some time by just using "BUSH MAKES HYPOCRITICAL REMARK" or "BUSH SAYS SOMETHING STUPID" as a headline everyday from now until the end of his term. But it's gotten to the point that his idiocy is so common-place that it's not even worth pointing out any more.
36 - JR
Jim Bendewald: Debating is not just about winning, it's about learning. I do not claim to be a scientist but I am on a quest to learn truth and communicate it as best I can. If I'm wrong I want to know it.
Yeah, me too. It just seems like it would be more productive for me to spend my time trying to keep myself up to date, and more productive for you to take the classes and put yourself in the environment of science rather than rely on half-assed, amateur banter from me.
All I can say from the standpoint of a former student is that given the totality of data reported and the reasoning linking that data, the evidence for evolution is quite convincing. Whether there is a conspiracy of lab technicians, instrument makers and professors; or whether God is faking the evidence; I find no shame in falling for it. Indeed, if God appeared and revealed all the evidence of natural history to be an elaborate hoax, I would still have less respect for the people who didn't fall for it.
Where did that information come from if there is no intelligent designer who I call God? Steven Meyer describes information as a massless quantity. He then asks the question, how can a universe of matter and energy provide information which is not made up of either?
Is there reason to believe it shouldn't? The questions are so abstract, and our experience is so limited, I'm not sure how you decide which answers are going to strain credulity.
You said, "So while one copy stays the same, the other accumulates changes, becoming essentially a new text." Your scenario just cannot account for intelligent information required to assemble proteins, organelles and new organisms.
Well, that seems like a strong assertion. It would certainly be provocative if it could be shown to be the case, but I just don't know how such a flat denial can be demonstrated, let alone that it has been. One might just as easily say that running water can't account for the Grand Canyon - the statement certainly sounds reasonable as you stand in awe at the rim, but is it really true?
37 - T A Dodger
Jim B,
Evolution / natural selection adds new genetic information via random mutations. Some mutations increase the mutants' reproductive success and, as the mutants pass their genetic material onto their offspring, the mutation spreads through the population.
38 - T A Dodger
Incidentally, random mutation is the way the avian flu would become trasmittable to humans. It would not be the elimination of some "can't be spread by humans" gene, it would be the addition of new genetic information.
39 - Mark Paul Bare
Most of the genetic code in humans is basically unused data. Same for many other creatures if not all. What is this inactive data for? old genes that have gone inactive due to mutation or genetic drift seems to be the consensus. Many physiological changes are a result of a change in the operation of a gene and not about a lot of new information added (i.e. look at a juvenile chimpanzees face and it is flat like a humans... as the chimp ages it protrudes more because the bones grow for longer). Not really any new info added or lost... just a change that effects the timing.
I laugh at the phrase "intelligent design" every time I have to go to the chiropractor!
40 - Maurice
I am an engineer and an athiest. There are those on this thread that have refered to evolution as a 'fact'. It is a theory. As a man of science I look at all these theories of origin with skepticism.
41 - David Edwards
Seems someone doesn't know even the state of the art of research in evolutionary biology 8 years ago.
Here's a scientific paper that blows creationist "information" canards right out of the water:
Evolution of Biological Information by Thomas D. Schneider, Nucleic Acids Research, 28: 2794-2799 (2000)
This paper can be downloaded directly from Schneider's own website here.
More papers by the same author available here.
42 - ash
look evolution makes no sense at all!!!!!!!!
43 - mark
Evolution dosen't contradict intelligent design, it contradicts the Christian Bible.
Evolution in no way trys to explain where matter originated, or whether a god exists. The two can exist side by side.
44 - Greg
There is a difference between evolution and natural selection. The flu's mutational changes is natural selection. The origin of species from random processes is evolution.