Blogcritic Jude Nagurney Camwell, speaking truth to power, has reported bravely on how that big meanie President George W Bush is mistreating Cindy Sheehan, mother of a dead soldier.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
George "Monty Burns" Bush Sics Dogs On Cindy Sheehan - Comments Page 2
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— go to most recent comments26 - ss
Comment 20
"double the number of boots on the ground, and seal off the fucking borders, spend the Resources required to do it right"
In the Vice Presidential debates, Edwards tried to go right on Cheney by suggesting just that. I'll have to paraphrase slightly, I don't have the quote (not yet), but Cheney said:
To even suggest this shows a lack of understanding of the reality on the ground in Iraq. Sending more American troops into Iraq will result in an increase in the number of insurgents, and make our job there harder.
Unfortunately I think your right on not being able to just cut and run, to many explosives (mostly Sadam's)and jihadis in the same place to just leave.
"Of course the problem with doing this - and you're entirely right that we should - is that it's politically unmarketable in the current environment, and would lead to more casualties which would create more outrage. The short sighted partisan obstructionism of the left has made this solution to the war almost impossible to implement"
I know you'd love to blame the left for this Dave, enemy of the neocons that you are, but according to Cheney it wouldn't work.
I'll find the exact quote and post it soon.
As for smearing Ms. Sheehan to protect your President, what exactly have you have sacrificed, other than your time on this blog, to support his policy in Iraq?
27 - Al Barger
I re-iterate, in case I wasn't clear enough in my original intent, that my point here isn't support or opposition to the war either way. That's a completely separate question.
What I find objectionable is how the emotional whims of one woman have been whipped up into some big challenge to our whole goddam national defense policy. She's not a pundit or scholar or weapons inspector or someone with a persuasive argument of any kind whatsoever. It's purely that we should all presume to let her stop the whole program for no reason but pure emotional foolishness.
28 - ss
1st- Everything after
"Unfortunately, I think your..." was me not Cheney. And the following quote "Of course the problem..." is comment 22
Sorry bout that
Don't Drink and Type
The Cheney quote follows below:
"But the key here is not to try to solve the problems in Iraq by putting in more American troops. The key is to get the Iraqis to take on the responsibility for their own security. That's exactly what we're doing.
If you put American troops in there in larger number and don't get the Iraqis into the fight, you'll postpone the day when you can in fact bring our boys home. It's vital that we deal with any need for additional troops by putting Iraqis into the effort."
The extra jihadis, I guess that was my opinion not Cheney's. But the idea that there's an easy solution to Iraq if that damn Left would just quite bugging us with dead soldiers' mothers
STANDS REFUTED!
29 - ss
I know, Iknow
Of course we're aren't debating the war itself here, just the protest against, but I'm gonna go ahead and post that Cheney quote one more time.
"But the key here is not to try to solve the problems in Iraq by putting in more American troops. The key is to get the Iraqis to take on the responsibility for their own security. That's exactly what we're doing.
If you put American troops in there in larger number and don't get the Iraqis into the fight, you'll postpone the day when you can in fact bring our boys home. It's vital that we deal with any need for additional troops by putting Iraqis into the effort."
Anyone with an easy answer for ending the war AND getting the result we say we want there, please contact the Vice President.
30 - Al Barger
SS, I don't know that anyone's arguing that "there's an easy solution to Iraq if that damn Left would just quit bugging us with dead soldiers' mothers." I'll just say that the dead soldier's mother ploy is pulling in the wrong direction.
Also though, the fact that there's cost and no easy, quick solution doesn't mean that we don't have to do it.
31 - Dave Nalle
>>I know you'd love to blame the left for this Dave, enemy of the neocons that you are, but according to Cheney it wouldn't work.<<
Did you know that I can be the enemy of both extremists on the right AND the left at the same time and still sleep at night. Cheney may be right and he may not be. I do think that if we're going to have troops there we ought to make sure they're enough of them and more than enough up until the point where the Iraqis can really take over.
>>As for smearing Ms. Sheehan to protect your President, what exactly have you have sacrificed, other than your time on this blog, to support his policy in Iraq?<<
I wasn't aware the average citizen was being called on to 'sacrifice' anything in this war. I've donated money to charitable organizations that support the troops and got my daughter to send a bunch of her beanie babies to Iraqi kids. I wouldn't object to being asked to do more, but right now I don't see what more the citizens in general can do to impact the situation.
And BTW, I haven't smeared Cindy Sheehan, and I support the Iraqi people first and Bush's overall plan only reluctantly.
Dave
32 - Shark
BEARS REPEATING:
"...talking shit about a grieving soldier's Mom is not only stupid politically, wrong ethically...but totally repugnant." --The Great Gonzo
Al: "...let her stop the whole program for no reason but pure emotional foolishness."
HER SON IS DEAD, AL.
You think you could find a new way to give Bush a political blow-job in public?
=========
Al: "What I find objectionable is how the emotional whims of one woman have been whipped up into some big challenge to our whole goddam national defense policy..."
Get used to it -- 'cause IT'S JUST BEGINNIING. Wait until a the war vets start returning home and talkin' trash about Vietna... um, Iraq.
BTW: This isn't about "statistics" of dead American GIs versus # of Americans killed in car accidents (which is quite an insult, btw).
It's about continuing to invest lives and $$ resources in an UNWINNABLE SITUATION.
AND FUCK THIS "we can't leave because we broke it" SHIT.
IRAQ will not recover in years, maybe decades, maybe never. It's total anarchy headed for civil war. AT BEST, we'll end up with an Islamic TOTALITARIAN theocracy cozy with Iran.
And I also predict that no matter what kind of "constitution" the Iraqis (whoops, make that nationalistic, xenophobic Shiites, Kurds, and Sunnis) come up with, Iraq is going to be a lawless human rights disaster for years and years -- since these folks prefer to "vote" with guns, bombs, and assassinations.
As for solutions, I already offered mine -- and it's hard to believe it was in April of 2004 and we're still over there fucking the dog and still sitting here arguing with patriotic right-wingers who'd rather take pot-shots at greiving mothers than take real shots at Iraqi insurgents.
SHARK'S SOLUTION:
========
"YANKEE COME HOME!"
33 - Shark
Al only recognizes the following when it comes to opinions on Iraq:
AL Barger: "...She's not a pundit or scholar or weapons inspector or someone with a persuasive argument of any kind whatsoever."
TWO WORDS for the fucking memory-impaired right-wing war supporters:
SCOTT
RITTER
--- you didn't listen to him, and as I recall -- to you guys, he was just an overly-emotional opportunistic liberal with a propoganda effort against Bush.
feh.
Keep moving the goalposts. It reminds me of the constantly changing "justifications" for going to war in the first place.
34 - Shark
Here's an idea (and don't forget; I was a marketing professional for 30 some years):
1) Al and RJ enlist.
2) Go to Iraq and jump on a hand-grenade.
3) Then your grieving moms can camp outside Bush's Brush Clearing Farm and show their explicit support for the war.
4) They'll get plenty of publicity -- and according to some religions -- you guys will end up fucking 70 versions of Ann Coulter in Paradise.
Yer welcome!
35 - ss
Dave:
We could argue about whether this will benefit the Iraqi people, and whether everything that's happened to them from '91 to present wasn't the U.S practicing some pretty medieval medicine. I understand that Sadam was a very bad guy, and you believe we are helping the Iraqis, and I respect that motivation.
That said, things haven't gone that well in that direction so far, and you weren't blaming extremists on both ends when you said:
"Of course the problem with doing this - and you're entirely right that we should - is that it's politically unmarketable in the current environment, and would lead to more casualties which would create more outrage. The short sighted partisan obstructionism of the left has made this solution to the war almost impossible to implement" (comment 22)
If this all works and ALL Iraqis get a FREE and democratic society IN PRACTICE, not just on paper, than those who supported the war were right.
If it doesn't...
OWN YOUR MISTAKE, SIR!
Don't weave revisionist fantasies about the 'obstructionist left'. We're not the ones in power.
RE: Ms. Sheehan and the President, I said some pretty cynical things about the way GW might try to handle this situation, based largely on the way he handles political opponents. His statement the other day showed some dignity and restraint.
36 - todd
AL, you know full well this is about Bush refusing to meet the women, not about National Security.
Bush is coming off like a coward and or an asshole in this matter.
If he had just met with her during the first few days, and taken her abuse, and even defended his war, he would have teh moral high ground here.
But he is evidently incapable of facing a mother's wrath.
This could be an excellent moment for Bush from a PR standpoint if he played it right.
37 - todd
BTW, people are flying from as far away as Japan to stand in solidarity with her...
So this isn't going to go away till Bush leaves his vacation (which taking one at this time cost him a lot of whuffie already)
38 - Dave Nalle
Everyone interested in the Sheehan situation should read this open letter to Cindy Sheehan from an Iraqi. It really puts things in perspective.
Dave
39 - Joe
Well, if there's one good thing to come out of this its the return of respectability to stalking.
40 - Shark
And I urge others to READ THE REST OF THE BLOG; it sounds like Iraq is lawless, anarchic, headed for civil war, what with the death squads, the bad guys infiltrating the new "police" that we're "training"... and... dare I say it...
IT SOUNDS LIKE IRAQ IS A FUCKING DISASTER.
Thanks for the link, Dave.
41 - RJ
Hmm.
Iraq held its first legitimate election in several decades earlier this year. Iraq is probably just a few days away from a new Constitution. Iraq is just a couple months away from new democratic elections.
But the surrender brigade thinks that if they keep repeating "IRAQ IS A FUCKING DISASTER!!!" enough times, their hopes and wishes will become reality.
Sorry. It ain't so.
42 - RJ
Oh, and did I mention that Saddam is in a prison cell, and his monstrous sons are dead?
And that Lebanon is bereft of the Syrian military occupation for the first time in decades? And that sources in Lebanon partially credit the liberation of Iraq for this dramatic turn of events?
And that Libya dropped its WMD program almost immediately after the liberation of Iraq?
And that both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia recently held relatively free local elections for the first time in ages?
And that Egypt has suddenly decided to allow opposition parties and free elections?
And the countless other recent positive developments in the Muslim World?
But, hey. Just repeat "IRAQ IS A FUCKING DISASTER!!!" and "Bush Is Hitler!!!" enough times, and it becomes true, right?
43 - Al Barger
No Todd, President Bush most definitely absolutely should NOT meet this woman. Pity should not be a grant of power. Regardless of the pros or cons of the war, it is very bad for our interest to allow such empty emotionalism to cloud our judgement. This isn't the way to set policy.
Bad
Bad
Bad
It's wrong and stupid that this woman has been stirred up into this big story. Makes us look weak, thus making us more vulnerable to attack.
Look, Team America is crumbling. One more good hit, and they'll turn and run with their tails between their American running dog legs. You know that this is exactly how the story plays to our enemies.
44 - Bennett
No matter the issue, no matter the potential for PR one way or the other, there is NO way the POTUS gets "forced" to meet with anyone.
It just isn't done.
Many of you know how I feel about the issues swirling around this particular situation, and the Iraq debacle, but my respect for the Office Of The President makes me come out on the side of No Meeting.
Sorry.
45 - Jude Nagurney Camwell
Since you mentioned me, you get a "zero" on your reading comprehension test.
You said:
This is horrible! President Bush is an evil no good bastard for turning dogs loose on this poor woman. That's just wrong.
BZZZZT! Wrong, Bozo the Clown. Your face should be as red as your big red nose.
I made it quite clear, in my Blogcritics political column, that President Bush has the power to DENOUNCE the smearing of the mother of a fallen soldier.
I have never said that the President smeared her. Anyone interested in the truth can read my column again instead of getting the wrong analysis from Mr. Comedian here.
46 - Jude
As for comment #1 with the Drudge-enabled airing of Cindy Sheehan's in-laws pain, I have no question, but comments - oh yes, I have comments. I would have expected Drudge (bastion of non-partisanship - chortle) to revel in this sort of behavior.
It's really desperate for a right-wing cyber-rag to take a desperate family's pain and recycle it for their smear campaign against the mom of a fallen soldier.
47 - Bill B
From the AP on 8/12 entitled
"War Mothers, Bush Are Worlds Apart"
By Nedra Pickler
"My position has been clear, and therefore, the position of this government is clear," Bush said. "Obviously, the conditions on the ground depend upon our capacity to bring troops home."
I just had to share this jewel from our leader.
Yup, crystal clear.
48 - Al Barger
Yes, the POTUS bumbled his syntax in an extemporaneous remark, therefore he must be a window licking retard. Plus, he's a Republican, so there's that.
49 - gonzo marx
i dunno, big Al..sometimes behavior speaks of a person's character..
since we are picking on the Shrub here, i will share a prime example...
this one is on the video record from one of his rare news confrences...
he was corrected about his mispronunciation of the word nuclear as "nukyular" by a reporter...he then said it the same way again...when the reporter asked why...he said "because that's the way I say it"
what struck me here was that here was a specific Issue where he was clearly shown to be wrong, and politely corrected...and still doggedly stuck to being wrong, because that's the way he did it...
one...you know he didn't pronounce that word that way in Connecticutt, or Kennebunkport , or Harvard or Yale
two...what does it say about a person's Character to be shown he is wrong, especially about a little thing like that..and yet do nothing to correct himself?
if he can't be bothered to fix a mispronunciation..what shoudl we expect him to fix ..oh, i dunno...policy mistakes?
this is the kind of shit that keeps me awake sometimes...
Excelsior!
50 - Dave Nalle
You worry too much, Gonzo. It's a lot harder than you seem to think it is to correct bad speech habits. Once you've been saying nukular and Bidness and axing questions for 20 years it's damned hard to go back to talking like a Yalie.
Dave
51 - gonzo marx
but Mr Nalle, my point is, isn't it quite telling as to the character of an Individual that he doesn't even try to correct an obvious mistake he is quite aware of?
and if he won't do it about something simple...why shoudl i ever think that he will work to correct major mistakes?
yeah..i worry about shit like that, especially about the guy that has the "button"
i'm just sayin'
Excelsior!
52 - Dave Nalle
>>but Mr Nalle, my point is, isn't it quite telling as to the character of an Individual that he doesn't even try to correct an obvious mistake he is quite aware of?<<
It shows a certain sense of self. People understand the words pronounced that way even if it's not technically correct. Why should he change the way he talks to something unnatural to him just to please someone else? English is a great language, but it evolves and it has idioms and peculiarities from region to region.
If something like this is the cornerstone of your critique of his character that's kind of sad.
Dave
53 - Bill B
>Yes, the POTUS bumbled his syntax in an extemporaneous remark, therefore he must be a window licking retard. Plus, he's a Republican, so there's that.<
Come on Mr. Barger. Even those of you "on his side" have to chuckle at this particular bumble as it came directly on the heels of professed clarity. I'm assuming you get the irony here. You can't make this stuff up.
In the words of Robert Plant, "Does anyone remember laughter?"
54 - gonzo marx
no Mr Nalle...not the "cornerstone"..merely a symptom
you try and make it a small thing, it is NOT about how he speaks
it's abotu his knowing he is "wrong" and blithely continuing to go ahead and do it anyway....over and over and over
THAT is the miniscule point i was making, and i still think it is very telling about character
learning from one's mistakes, changing to correct something within yourself, and constantly seeking to expand understanding are all tenets of Wisdom in the human condition
something, silly me, that i would hope our elected leaders have
especially that guy with the button
but hell, you don't care...as long as you get your tax cuts and your portfolio goes up..you will justify most anything..
siding with neocons and fundies gladly...all the while deluding yourself that your so-called "liberty wing" will ever have more influence than the "log cabin" types...
bah...too bitter, need...more...coffee...
Excelsior!
55 - Dorji-Guai
The number of casualties from 'George's War' includes those maimed, amputees and others with less immediately visible injuries; i.e., mental anguish from the nature of this war.[Does "Hey, hey LBJ..." resonate? Maybe we need some Israeli Army advisors on how to *really* deal with civilians in an occupied zone.]
It's gotta be a complete embarrassment about equipment that still isn't right, including body armor. Thanks for the post-invasion planning, neo-cons.
56 - Dave Nalle
Gonzo, and I agree that as you said it's a 'minuscule point' in more ways than one.
Dorj - no one expected the inadequacy of the body armor in use in Iraq. Are you aware that everyone there HAS body armor which was considered state of the art in our last war. The problem is that there's now new fiber technology and it takes a long time to produce the replacement vests which take advantage of it - and we didn't know we needed it or could get it until the war started.
Dave
57 - Al Barger
Gonzo, I absolutely support the president on the nukyular issue. Do you have a URL for any story of this presidential nukyular exchange?
HINT: El Presidente is obviously going with nukyular quite purposely and purposefully.
Bill B, it is of course good to mock a president up and down the street. It's part of our basic constitutional checks and balances. Bastard's on OUR payroll, and being the butt of jokes is part of the job description.
Just don't mistakenly actually think from a few bits of flubbed syntax that he's any kind of stupid.
58 - RJ
"what struck me here was that here was a specific Issue where he was clearly shown to be wrong, and politely corrected...and still doggedly stuck to being wrong, because that's the way he did it..."
No. This was a reporter trying to make an ass out of the President because the President (gasp!) mispronounced a word the same way that probably half the fucking country also mispronounces the word. And Bush was not about to correct himself and apologize for the benefit of some anti-Bush journalist.
Good for him.
59 - MCH
If that "anti-Bush" journalist thought he was going to make an ass out of GW Bush, he totally "misunderstimated" the determination of our Commander in Chief.
What he should've asked ol' GW was what exactly did he mean by his "I know how hard it is to put food on your family" statement...
60 - Shark
re. The "War in Iraq"
A reporter asked Bush if -- like Lt. Col. Bill Kilgore in Apocalpyse Now -- he loved "the smell of victory", Bush answered that he "never inhaled."
=======
Today's Essay Assignment for Superpatriots RJ Elliot and Big Al Barger:
SUBJECT:
Body Armor vs Rumsfeld's Effectiveness
Discuss.
Thanks
61 - gonzo marx
reading the comments i just realized that te entire Press corps could catch the Shrub naked in a room with a dead woman, a live boy, a very scared sheep while he was wearing velcro mittens, while giving bin Laden a reach around...
and still Mr Nalle and RJ would rush to his defense...
i'm just sayin'...
Excelsior!
62 - Dave Nalle
Gonzo, I support the right of George W. Bush or anyone else to have sex with a dead woman, a live boy or a sheep so long as they are all of legal age and freely consenting. I say this in advance, but have said the same in defense of Bill Clinton, so bring on the photos of Bush and his gay/dead/fleecy orgy.
Dave
63 - gonzo marx
fair enough Mr Nalle...and duly noted
yer Honor...the Persecution rests..
heh
Excelsior!
64 - Temple Stark
>>Dorj - no one expected the inadequacy of the body armor in use in Iraq. Are you aware that everyone there HAS body armor which was considered state of the art in our last war. The problem is that there's now new fiber technology and it takes a long time to produce the replacement vests which take advantage of it - and we didn't know we needed it or could get it until the war started.
What a load of shill-shit rom top to, rm, bottom. One, that's a planning mistake. Two, it's been three years. I think we could have mastered the vest production by now.
Useless. Completely useless. And did I mention, useless?
65 - Shark
Iraq War:
Today's Essay Subject:
"The Pentagon's use of Mercenaries, "Private Security Companies" etc -- to supplement an inadequate US military force in Iraq."
======
Bonus essay: How is it helpful when a Special Ops Captain (w/ American taxpayer-financed training) who is making $30 a year leaves the Army, walks across the street, signs up with "Triple Canopy" (et al) for $180k a year -- and goes back to virtually the same job in Iraq?
Explain.
=======
Special Quiz Question:
How much you wanna bet that investors in these companies are also big-wigs in the Pentagon, the GOP, the Neo-Con movement, and the Bush Administration?
=======
Libertarians:
PENCILS READY...
Go!
66 - miriam
I thought this was about Cindy Sheehan, not Bush. But it seems everything is about Bush. Too hot? Blame Bush. Not enough rain? Blame Bush.
Bush has no need to talk to Sheehan. Nothing he says will change her mind and nothing she says will change his mind.
I'm sure he has other things to do.
67 - Shark
Miriam: "...Too hot? Blame Bush. Not enough rain? Blame Bush."
Shut the fuck up with the Blame Bush stuff, will ya?!
68 - gonzo marx
"other things to do"
i've said it before, the Shrub is under NO obligation to meet with this woman..and she has EVERY right to protest...
but "other things to do"...oh yes...that's right, i forgot
this week he breaks the record for most Presidential vacation days...formerly held by Reagan, over 8 years...
not like there's 2 wars going on or anything...
Excelsior!
69 - Joe
"Too hot? Blame Bush."
Nothing a Brazilian wouldn't fix.
70 - Dave Nalle
>>Bonus essay: How is it helpful when a Special Ops Captain (w/ American taxpayer-financed training) who is making $30 a year leaves the Army, walks across the street, signs up with "Triple Canopy" (et al) for $180k a year -- and goes back to virtually the same job in Iraq?
Explain.<<
Let's see, it means my friend who more or less did just that can pay his way through medical school with ease?
And it means that for once our veterans are paid what they're worth? Is that a bad thing? These guys aren't hiring green recruits, they're hiring folks who've already paid their dues and done their time for the military and really deserve some reward for it.
Dave
71 - gonzo marx
oh..you mean folks that kill, not for their country..but for money.
and you are ok with that...
nothing can bridge that gap in ethics
/rolls eyes and pukes
Excelsior!
72 - Al Barger
Gonzo, that's got to be the dumbest damned thing you've ever said. We're not talking about signing up as a mafia hitman, or just for the highest bidder. If the killing is righteous, then being paid for it is fine. If it's not, then doing it for free doesn't make it any better.
73 - Dave Nalle
>>oh..you mean folks that kill, not for their country..but for money.
and you are ok with that...<<
Give me a break, Gonzo. They aren't hitmen or assassins or death squads. They're hired to provide security and protection. They're guards. They only fire when fired on, and they cooperate with the military and their policies.
Dave
74 - gonzo marx
do either of you seriously want to try and tell me the history of KBR, and mercenaries in general is just "security guards"
now who is being fucking naive..
check south africa's history?..then cross wiht KBR
try Venezuela
either way, that you would condone killers for hire, and especially condone that we, the American people fucking PAY them is just far beyond driven
move down one peg on the evolutionary scale...do not pass "civilized" do not collect a conscience
maybe it's because i AM a vet...i can't believe you, Mr Nalle are unaware of the history of mercenaries in the course of human events
imagine what the Founders would say about it?
bah..why do i fucking bother...you two woudl have to have Jiminy fucking Cricket in your shorts to even begin to understand
Excelsior!
75 - Dave Nalle
I've known two mercenaries, Gonzo. Neither of them was involved in any kind of atrocities and both are and were pretty fine upstanding guys. Most of their work was indirectly for the CIA or the DEA, and it really was for the most part guard and escort work. Neither of them was in Venezuela, but one was in Columbia if that counts for anything.
We're not talking about the Free Companies of Renaissance Italy here or the Mercs working for the Rhodesian government in the 1970s here.
>>imagine what the Founders would say about it?<<
Jefferson hired 105 Greek Mercenaries to augment his small force of Marines when he invaded Tripoli in 1804.
Dave