It's time for gay Republicans to be more like Barney Frank and less like Mark Foley.
In the midst of an emerging scandal, Congressman Mark Foley (R-FL) abruptly resigned from the House of Representatives on Friday. News leaked out this week that Foley had been sending suggestive emails and engaging in sexual online chat sessions with underage congressional pages. The story was made public by one of the former pages on an anti-Republican headhunter website CREW. It was then picked up and investigated by ABC News.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Jet in Columbus
Wait Michael, I'll go put my leather on...
77 - JustOneMan
gee...this is turning into a mens room on the NJ Turnpike
78 - Silas Kain
Once again when it comes to all matters homosexual, these threads go off on a tangent that differs widely from the subject at hand. Let’s look at Representative Mark Foley and the issues for a moment:
As far as this place being like the Men's Room on the NJ Turnpike, it's obvious you've never been to the men's room on the ground floor of the Rayburn Office Building.
79 - SHARK
Didn't read the comments, but read Nalle's opinion.
If it's been said before, forgive me:
1) Nalle, until you understand the difference between a sane, average gay man who "comes out" vs an online child predator/pederast, SHUT THE FUCK UP. What you've said is UNFUCKING-BELIEVABLE and oh, did I mention:
despicable?
Jeezus~!
2) Nalle's/Hastert's/TonySnow's ["naughty emails"] response demonstrates the depth of illness in the current GOP/political nervous system: in order to STAY IN POWER, THESE FUCKERS WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING.
3) Nalle wants his GOP pals to "grow some balls" -- [how fucking clever!] and "come out of the closet."
Lesseee, he's addressing the God/Flag/Creationist Family Values political party...
Nalle's Next Article:
"Jews in SS Gestapo ranks "come out of the closet" and open a Yamulke Booth at Oktoberfest"
Feh.
Nalle, seriously, for justifying this come-here-little-boy shit of Foley's by equating it with a relationship among consenting adult homosexuals makes THIS THE MOST HEINOUS, SICKENING, STUPID SHIT you've ever written on BC. [and that's saying alot!]
You should apologize to the community -- and then seek help. Seriously.
80 - JustOneMan
Hypocrit!!!
"Rep. Foley's behavior is and was completely inappropriate"
How can someone who states that they are for freedom of sexual orientation call Foley's behavior "completely inappropriate". By doing so you are admitting your pro-Gay stance is illegitamate..which it is
And you were the one who lowered the level of discussion with your "leather" comment so dont blame others....
81 - SHARK
Now - I read the comments.
Ho fucking hum. More distractions, including th too-be-expected "funny" bits from that lovable sports frat-boy Sussman. Yall have a hard time with lineral thinking, don't cha? A buncha ADD-addled lunatics who think that because they can type, it shows they can think.
Guess what...
RJ pauses to note -- like the GOP leadership did last fall -- "What are the implications for his Florida Election race? Holy moly. Let's get our priorities straight!"
~fuck you. You're now part of the problem. But kudos for staying with the Party Mentality.
And fuck the rest of *you: shouldn't you be debating whether Clinton or Bush took less action to stop Osama?
zzzzzzzzzzzz....
Keep your eye on the swinging pocketwatch, America.
*well, not you ; )
82 - Lumpy
You really are a headcase, shark. Don't you think that a mass coming out would have a strong positive impact in shaking up the GOP and putting it on a better track?
83 - Lumpy
Or are you just so caught up in your hatred of republicans that improving the party is of no interest to you? Or do you think we should just have a one-party state with no GOP?
84 - Baronius
Silas, these comments have gone on several tangents. But homosexuality isn't a tangent in the original article; it's the subject. As for the rest of your comments, you seem to say that the GOP was wrong to go after Foley, to not go after Foley, to go after Democrats, and to go after Republicans. You've lost me.
85 - nugget
how much longer do you people think it will be before shark pulls a Charles Roberts??
86 - RJ Elliott
There must be a thousand different ways to look at this. And every single one of them will be blogged!
Honestly, one of the most pertinent things to point out about this situation is the power of the Blogosphere.
20 years ago, this likely would have been covered up by the MSM and then dealt with secretly and internally by the powers-that-be. And even if it was brought out into the open by the MSN, there would only be a couple of sources presenting a couple of versions of the situation, and offering a couple of ways to think about it.
Today, thankfully, we are able to look at this matter from all sides, because we are receiving reporting from scores of different angles and sources. And the gatekeepers of the MSM are impotent to do anything about it.
Hooray for the Bloggernaut!
87 - Dave Nalle
Nice to see Silas visiting us again. Not so nice to see Shark and his complex of misdirected rage and personal insults.
Before I address anything specific, let me point out YET AGAIN that I wrote this article before most of the specifics about the instant messages, chats, emails and the extent or duration of the problem had been made public. I wrote the article the afternoon of the day the first information leaked out. Three days have passed since then, and obviously new facts have come to light whcih present Foley in an enormously more negative light.
That said, my main point remains that the closeted culture of gay Republicanism to some extent directs people like Foley into this kind of lifestyle and creates an environment where the manifestations of homosexualitty are enormously more negative than the would be in the open.
1) Nalle, until you understand the difference between a sane, average gay man who "comes out" vs an online child predator/pederast, SHUT THE FUCK UP. What you've said is UNFUCKING-BELIEVABLE and oh, did I mention:
despicable?
And did I mention that you could be a bit less judgmental when you don't know the context of the article? Is there no conclusion too stupid for you to leap to in your headlong rush to express unreasoning outrage at every fucking opportunity?
2) Nalle's/Hastert's/TonySnow's ["naughty emails"] response demonstrates the depth of illness in the current GOP/political nervous system: in order to STAY IN POWER, THESE FUCKERS WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING.
What the hell does this have to do with anything I wrote? I suggested honesty. GOD FORBID that the GOP should be so evil as to be honest in order to win elections.
3) Nalle wants his GOP pals to "grow some balls" -- [how fucking clever!] and "come out of the closet."
Lesseee, he's addressing the God/Flag/Creationist Family Values political party...
So you say. I thought I was addressing the individual liberty and smaller government party that lost its way.
Nalle, seriously, for justifying this come-here-little-boy shit of Foley's by equating it with a relationship among consenting adult homosexuals makes THIS THE MOST HEINOUS, SICKENING, STUPID SHIT you've ever written on BC. [and that's saying alot!]
So long as you're posting I'm in no danger of claiming the stupidity crown, Shark. The only thing I've said which in any way fits the assertion you make here is that the pages in question were over the legal age of consent - a fact - and relevant because whether Foley's behavior was criminal or just immoral is important.
Dave
88 - SHARK
(I'm shocked that no gay readers called you on it, and that some even complimented you on your terrific "story"!)
======
NALLE: "...my main point remains that the closeted culture of gay Republicanism to some extent directs people like Foley into this kind of lifestyle..."
JESUS! There ya go again~
My main point, you stupid fucker, is that "closeted gay culture" has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PREYING ON CHILDREN FOR SEX.
Ethical, Moral, Mentally Healthy Homosexual AND/OR straight 50 YEAR OLD ADULTS don't go around trying to put the make on children.
Can I be more clear on this?
=========
SHARK: "IN ORDER TO STAY IN POWER, THESE FUCKERS WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING."
NALLE: "...I suggested honesty. GOD FORBID that the GOP should be so evil as to be honest in order to win elections."
Oh come on, Nalle, DON'T PLAY COY WITH ME: I read yer crap;
you "suggested" Conservative GOP GAYS "come out of the closet" -- um, so they wouldn't be "directed" into Foley's "LIFESTYLE" ie. hitting on young underage boys.
And meanwhile -- implicit in your "suggestion", you attempted to equate a predatory sexual encounter with a child ~with~ a homosexual relationship between two consenting adults.
It's NOT ABOUT FOLEY BEING GAY.
It's about him being a pedophile.
A healthy homosexual is a little bit different than a pedophile.
Anyway, these are TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT ISSUES:
1) you wanna suggest that a bunch of chickenshit CLOSETED, gay-bashing, marriage amendment-pushing, Bible-thumping, opportunistic Log Cabinish Republicans "come out of the closet" so they can live honest, authentic, happier, truer lives... despite the fact that as "queers" -- they would be about as welcome at the local GOP Prayer Breakfast as steaming bowl of Anthrax served on Mary Cheney's used Kotex -- well, fine, preach to the few fucked up "jews" who still serve in the Gestapo. Good luck, too. I'd love to see a "gayer" GOP.
~BUT...
2) You wanna suggest that BEING A CLOSETED GAY "directs people like Foley into this kind of lifestyle" [a CHILD SEXUAL PREDATOR] -- then I'M GONNA TELL YOU YER FULL OF SHIT.
========
Nalle: "...the pages in question were over the legal age of consent..."
Yeah, okay, they were 16 years old, Nalle, and UNDER THE LEGAL OBLIGATION AND CARE OF THE U.S. CONGRESS -- who were their virtual guardians/surrogate parents...
-- and the fact that you even have the fucking audacity to mention that -- "well, heck, in D.C. 16 is legal age of consent, huhuh..." makes it easy for me to, once again, say:
"IN ORDER TO STAY IN POWER, THESE FUCKERS WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING."
========
NALLE: "...whether Foley's behavior was criminal or just immoral is important."
Not really, Nalle. Unlike you, I don't practice moral relativism: immoral behavior WITH CHILDREN, especially from someone with an extraordinary amount of power of others, and especially with an extraordinary amount of obligations to SERVE his community is just plain fucking IMMORAL, Dave.
One doesn't have to be a genius, a Republican, or a Democrat to figure that out.
We should drag him outta his "rehab" clinic and CUT OFF HIS DICK.
And if you had any brains, balls, or integrity, you would agree -- and STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY FOLEY'S ACTIONS.
89 - SHARK
Lumpy: "You really are a headcase, shark. Don't you think that a mass coming out would have a strong positive impact in shaking up the GOP and putting it on a better track?"
Lumpy, try to imagine a universe where you're a fucking headcase for even seriously suggesting someone ponder such a thought for more than a nanosecond.
90 - Silas Kain
Baronius: Silas, these comments have gone on several tangents. But homosexuality isn't a tangent in the original article; it's the subject. As for the rest of your comments, you seem to say that the GOP was wrong to go after Foley, to not go after Foley, to go after Democrats, and to go after Republicans. You've lost me.
GOP was not wrong to go after Foley but wrong in their approach. You see, if Foley had done with a female page there would be an entirely different approach by the GOP Leadership. Say it was a female page. Hastert's reaction would have been, "Thank God. It could have been a boy." No member of Congress should be allowed to come on to any page regardless of sex or age. That should be completely verbotten. The GOP is scared shitless that they'll lose control of Congress and will sell anyone down the river to maintain power. That, sir, is treason in my eyes.
91 - Bliffle
Baronius: "Silas, these comments have gone on several tangents. But homosexuality isn't a tangent in the original article; it's the subject."
No it isn't: it's about pederasty and abuse of power.
But I see the clever plan: convert the Mortal Sin of pedophilia into the (merely) venal sin of homos*xuality. One can loath homos while allowing them to rule.
Now Foley and pals are striving to get the charge reduced to boozeing.
Piffle.
92 - larry
i live in az. jim kobe was outed by an oppoent who had no chance of winning the election . the people of az did not care. he was a good representative.. he was greatly admired. now to mr. foley. i see now that he hasihiding out in rehab. that seems to become popular with notable people who want to get out of limelight.i assume he is in one the country cclub centers. with massages and tennis courts
93 - Silas Kain
But I see the clever plan: convert the Mortal Sin of pedophilia into the (merely) venal sin of homos*xuality. One can loath homos while allowing them to rule.
God save the queens.
94 - Dave Nalle
SHARK, do you just not get basic logic or is it come sort of an act you put on?
My main point, you stupid fucker, is that "closeted gay culture" has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH PREYING ON CHILDREN FOR SEX.
And this case has nothing to do with preying on children for sex either. This case is about opportunistic sex and abuse of power and it is absolutely the result of closeted gay culture.
Because Foley was closeted he had to look for sex where he could find it privately and with people he could control and manipulate. It's likely that he didn't turn to pedophilia/hebephilia out of preference, but out of necessity. He didn't go looking for 8 year olds, he went after people old enough to make sexual choices but young enough to be easily manipulated.
Ethical, Moral, Mentally Healthy Homosexual AND/OR straight 50 YEAR OLD ADULTS don't go around trying to put the make on children.
I agree. Foley certainly was being immoral, unethical and mentally unhealthy, but you're going after him as a pedophile when he focusted on young but sexually mature targets, not actual children.
you "suggested" Conservative GOP GAYS "come out of the closet" -- um, so they wouldn't be "directed" into Foley's "LIFESTYLE" ie. hitting on young underage boys.
Yes I did, because these are NOT underage boys. It's the same situation as you have with McGreevey, where he kept it in the office and with a subordinate. It's all about control and protecting yourself, it's not about the 'pedophilia'.
It's NOT ABOUT FOLEY BEING GAY.
It's about him being a pedophile.
It's not about either, it's about him being in the closet.
1) you wanna suggest that a bunch of chickenshit CLOSETED, gay-bashing, marriage amendment-pushing, Bible-thumping, opportunistic Log Cabinish Republicans "come out of the closet" so they can live honest, authentic, happier, truer lives... despite the fact that as "queers" -- they would be about as welcome at the local GOP Prayer Breakfast as steaming bowl of Anthrax served on Mary Cheney's used Kotex -- well, fine, preach to the few fucked up "jews" who still serve in the Gestapo. Good luck, too. I'd love to see a "gayer" GOP.
I think you're very wrong about how they would be received by most in the GOP. The religious extremists are still a minority and the gay faction in the party has a lot more power than people realize.
2) You wanna suggest that BEING A CLOSETED GAY "directs people like Foley into this kind of lifestyle" [a CHILD SEXUAL PREDATOR] -- then I'M GONNA TELL YOU YER FULL OF SHIT.
Then you're going to be wrong.
Yeah, okay, they were 16 years old, Nalle, and UNDER THE LEGAL OBLIGATION AND CARE OF THE U.S. CONGRESS -- who were their virtual guardians/surrogate parents...
Well, then they were doomed from the get-go.
Not really, Nalle. Unlike you, I don't practice moral relativism: immoral behavior WITH CHILDREN, especially from someone with an extraordinary amount of power of others, and especially with an extraordinary amount of obligations to SERVE his community is just plain fucking IMMORAL, Dave.
I never said it wasn't immoral. I agree, it's immoral for a whole bunch of reasons you don't even seem to grasp. But it's not illegal.
We should drag him outta his "rehab" clinic and CUT OFF HIS DICK.
And if you had any brains, balls, or integrity, you would agree -- and STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY FOLEY'S ACTIONS.
I haven't said one thing to justify his actions. Not anywhere on this thread. I'm just trying to look at them realistically. And I agree that the alcohol rehab ploy is transparent and weak.
Dave
95 - Dave Nalle
And now to add some bizarre perspective to the issue...
I was driving in my truck with my teenage daughter when coverage of the Foley case came on. Turns out she'd already heard about it from friends at school, so we had a little discussion about it.
Much to my surprise, she blamed the pages for the whole thing. Her comments were to the effect that the gay 16 year olds she knows are entirely aware of what they're doing sexually and that anyone who's sixteen knows how to deal with sexual predators online. She suggested that the pages were essentially leading Foley on, because if they were uncomfortable with his sexual IMing, why did they keep engaging in it when they could have blocked his messages? She also came up with the idea - which hadn't occured to me - that based on the snippets of the IMs she'd had heard repeated to her at school - she thought it was entirely possible that the pages didn't like Foley and set him up.
Interesting perspective which surprised the hell out of me.
Dave
96 - SHARK
Bliffle NAILS NALLE's simplistic sleight of hand: "...But I see the clever plan: convert the Mortal Sin of pedophilia into the (merely) venal sin of homos*xuality. One can loath homos while allowing them to rule."
Nalle on Foley: "...I haven't said one thing to justify his actions."
Nalle on Foley: "...this case has nothing to do with preying on children for sex either....
This case is about opportunistic sex and abuse of power...
...the result of closeted gay culture.
...Because Foley was closeted he had to look for sex where he could find it...
...he didn't turn to pedophilia/hebephilia out of preference, but out of necessity."
NALLE, YER FULL OF SHIT -- and yer the one who needs lessons in "Logic"!
Look, Plato, I know you don't leave the ol' gated community very often, but you're aware that many "closeted" gay men have relationships with other gay MEN?
Y'know, like... over 18?
Some closeted?
Some not?
ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
Surely you've heard that.
APOLOGIZE to the Blogcritics community, NALLE.
97 - SHARK
Nalle, being TOTALLY OBLIVIOUS to what sort of character he and his little cracker spawn happen to BE: "...And now to add some bizarre perspective to the issue... my teenage daughter... Turns out she'd already heard about it [Foley-Gate] from friends at school, so we had a little discussion about it. Much to my surprise, she blamed the pages for the whole thing."
Why be surprised, Nalle?
When you start defending Foley by saying he was just a closeted gay male who couldn't find a date -- you're only a step away from saying the woman WHO GOT RAPED ASKED FOR IT.
[Personal attack deleted] Have a nice day.
SHARK
98 - SHARK
Nalle, of all the people I've met who can at least claim to be sane, you are most deluded person ever.
EVER.
You lecture me on logic -- and can't even parse YOUR OWN WORDS?
Look, Nalle, you're so fucking deluded, you THINK you're saying one thing: [GOP gays would be better off coming out -- ie. finding love somewhere other than a friggin' High School campus] -- but what you're REALLY SAYING is that CLOSETED GAY MEN are "forced" to have sex with children because their sexual preference is 'secret'.
That's despicable. It's a justification for priest predators and all others who pick on children of their own sex.
Once again, Nalle, it's not about homosexuality; it's about TRYING TO FUCK children -- REGARDLESS OF whether it's from a "straight" or "gay" "perspective".
Try driving your pickup OUT OF YOUR OWN LITTLE REALITY TUNNEL -- and then read yer own shit above.
It's horrible, Dave.
99 - JP
More power to them.. I'd love to see some Republicans in Red State Georgia come out and admit that, we'd have more Democrats in office.
100 - Nancy
Why is it that when any politician gets in trouble, the first thing they do is dive into a rehab clinic? Do they seriously think having a drinking problem - or CLAIMING they have a drinking/drug problem - exonerates them & makes their illegal behavior OK or more acceptable? Got news for them: it doesn't.
Vote for the GOP, Party of No Principles, if you support corruption, coverups, cronyism, influence-peddling, bribery, simony, pederasty, lying, arrogance, and failure.
101 - Donnie Marler
"Why is it that when any politician gets in trouble, the first thing they do is dive into a rehab clinic? Do they seriously think having a drinking problem - or CLAIMING they have a drinking/drug problem - exonerates them & makes their illegal behavior OK or more acceptable? Got news for them: it doesn't."
Excellent questions. I'll ask Ted Kennedy if I ever meet him.
Representative Foley may have been within the law but his behavior shows a serious lack of judgement and common sense.
102 - Michael J. West
It's easy to say Foley is a liar and a creep and we're better off with him out of Congress, but that misses the big picture.
Perhaps so, but it should be said anyway.
Foley is a liar and a creep and we're better off with him out of Congress.
103 - Nancy
I'm not defending Kennedy: IMO he should have resigned all public life after the Chappaquiddick episode, let alone the others that came after. I'm commenting that recently, whenever a public figure does anything wrong - especially if it involves trouble with the law - he immediately declares he's checking himself into a drug/alcohol rehab clinic. Ney did it, now Foley is doing it, etc. As if they think that excuses them to the public: "Oh, I was drinking, so I didn't know what I was doing, etc." bullshit bullshit bullshit.
104 - handyguy
Throughout all the self-righteous press coverage and calls from Congressional 'leaders' for investigations, waft two very unpleasant odors: of homophobia [pretending not to be so], and of politically motivated hypocrisy.
I am, more or less, a Democrat, but Nancy Pelosi et al can't convincingly pretend that their loud cries of indignation are about anything other than trying to win the House, and this nauseates me.
It's always entertaining to watch panicked politicians scurrying, especially if they are Republicans, but there is also a depressing quality to this particular scandal, because it is bringing out latent antigay sentiment in the press and public. (And possibly in a few posters on this thread...?)
The e-mails that originally came to light, sent to the Louisiana boy, were not objectionable in themselves. The reaction of the boy and his parents must have been so negative because they knew [or perceived] Foley to be gay.
Of course, the later revelations of much more explcit IM's, and apparently even an attempted rendezvous, are considerably more disturbing. But if it's true that Hastert et al didn't know about the worse behavior, as they claim, then the shrill cries about their failing to protect children to preserve their power ring false.
No one comes out of this one looking or smelling pretty.
105 - Clavos
Nancy says #103:
I'm commenting that recently, whenever a public figure does anything wrong - especially if it involves trouble with the law - he immediately declares he's checking himself into a drug/alcohol rehab clinic. Ney did it, now Foley is doing it, etc. As if they think that excuses them to the public: "Oh, I was drinking, so I didn't know what I was doing, etc." bullshit bullshit bullshit.
Actually, Nancy, they do it to get themselves out of the public eye and away from the reporters, in hopes that things will die down somewhat by the time they come back out.
106 - Clavos
If someone were to disable sharky's caps lock key, he'd be mute.
107 - MCH
"With a very few exceptions, we're ALL anonymous, since you have no way of verifying that those with "names" (or what appear to be names) for handles are actually using their real names."
- Clavos
But surely "RJ Elliott" is not a fake name, is it?
108 - Clavos
emmy,
Why ask me? If it's important to you, ask him.
109 - Bliffle
"Throughout all the self-righteous press coverage and calls from Congressional 'leaders' for investigations, waft two very unpleasant odors: of homophobia [pretending not to be so]..."
If this is homophobia, then are we to conclude that all the unpleasantness about Clinton/Monica a few years ago was heterophobia?
110 - Dave Nalle
Shark, I appreciate your ranting, your personal attacks and your sincerity. But you're just fucking wrong.
There's no pedophilia here. 16 year olds are sexually mature both legally and physiologically. They know their sexual preferences and they know how to make decisions. I'm surprised that someone from a group like OutYouth isn't on here reading your reactionary ass the riot act.
I do love the bizarre role reversal, where I'm the one taking the liberal position and defending gay rights and you're the one calling homosexuality a 'venal sin'. Take a pause for a moment - what gives you the idea that homosexuality is a sin at all?
You're also dead wrong on what the real crime here is. It's the abuse of power that's the crime, and that's a result of Foley being in the closet and using the power he had over the pages to protect himself, essentially making them into a private harem.
I forgot about the larger history of this when I wrote the article, but there was actually a very similar incident in 1983 when Representative Gerry Studds had sex with a 17 year old male intern and was exposed. His response was to come out, admit it - he even held a press conference with the page - and accept censure. He was then reelected and served five more terms after the scandal, and retired voluntarily.
Dave
111 - SHARK
Nalle: "...you're the one calling homosexuality a 'venal sin'."
I never said such a thing. Biffle said it, and he was being sarcastic.
=====
As far as me "being wrong" -- I'm done with you on this thread, Nalle. I've parsed and exposed your bullshit and you're still trying to spin it.
We got yer points, Nalle:
1) closeted gay republicans are "forced" into a lifestyle that includes hitting on young, vulnerable boys.
2) If they "came out" -- they'd be less likely to be trolling the internet for sex with kids.
3) Blame the victim. (or was that yer brilliant daughter who said that? BTW: hold old is she, Nalle? Wonder how you'd feel if I asked what she's wearing right now? "Send me a picture? Do I make you horny?" feh. You'd be loading yer little musket.
So, in conclusion:
Yer a hypocrite.
Yer shameless.
Yer full of shit.
...and YER WRONG.
~NEXT!
112 - Dave Nalle
Shark, I'm not wrong, you just don't agree with me. Not the same thing. Your assertion that I'm wrong because I don't agree with your illogical puritanism doesn't actually prove anything.
And my daughter is 14, about to turn 15. And it's a 30-06 not a musket. But she still has a better grasp on this issue than you do at 4 times her age. Her main point is that the actions of the pages in continuing to chat with him make it clear that beyond the initial contact, this activity was CONSENSUAL.
Dave
113 - Lee Richards
Dave, I truly don't want to be unpleasant or offensive, but are you saying that you would have no problem with a teacher, coach or neighbor--male or female--who made inappropriate comments or suggestions to your daughter at age 14, 15, or 16 as long as she continued to respond and all communication was consensual?
114 - Dave Nalle
Lee, I would certainly have a problem with it under any circumstances under the legal age of consent, and over that age I would still have personal concerns as a family matter. If my daughter were a couple of years older, I'd be concerned, but I'd expect her to be responsible enough to deal with such a situation intelligently, or to make me aware of it so I could deal with it for her. Hell, I'd be concerned if she was 24 and wanted to marry a 50 year old, but I do know the limits of what's reasonable parental concern and what's not.
Over the legal age of consent but below the age of majority it's a private matter for the people involved, NOT a public issue - except insofar as people use it as a way to judge Foley's character. This is the argument which Studds made in 1983 and which seemed to convince a lot of people. Which leaves the primary issue Foley's abuse of power and sexual harassment, which isn't limited by age or even the appearance of consent.
Dave
115 - Baronius
Shark, it's worth noting that Nalle isn't calling for honesty. He wants honesty after the last vote is counted. For all his talk about the GOP being gay-friendly (and he's righter than you may think), he wants to keep the religious types duped for a few more months until it's "safe" to come out of the closet.
As for Nalle's support of perfectly legal, wholesome, moral sex with sixteen-year-olds...words fail me.
116 - Lee Richards
Dave, Doesn't it become a public rather than private issue when this guy is speaking for and voting on laws to regulate on-line access of sexual predators, and being paid a handsome salary from public funds?
117 - Silas Kain
Now Foley's blaming the Church. Unless he nails Falwell or Robertson I don't want to her it. Foley is a coward and a low life scum sucking douchebag. May he spend eternity as a sex slave to a dominant female.
118 - Dave Nalle
Dave, Doesn't it become a public rather than private issue when this guy is speaking for and voting on laws to regulate on-line access of sexual predators, and being paid a handsome salary from public funds?
Which is why he should be out of the closet so that his sexuality can't be used to pressure him. And his personal life is stil personal even if he's a public legislator. And if people don't like his personal activities and predilections they should vote him out of office.
Foley presumably resigned from pure shame, but if he'd stayed in office it might have been even better for him to be crushed in the election next month so the people would have a chance to send a message by kicking him out.
Dave
119 - Dan
"...if he'd stayed in office it might have been even better for him to be crushed in the election next month so the people would have a chance to send a message by kicking him out."
well, his name will still be on the ballot, thanks to the convienient 11th hour exposure of his picadilo. A vote for him will really mean a vote for his Republican replacement.
Hopefully, perenial Republican voters won't be fooled by this coniving political trick.
120 - nugget
Shark, if there wasn't a comment policy forbidding me to do so, I'd call you a complete idiot. You misrepresent Dave's reasoning because you think he's a homophobe. Even if he isn't particularly fond of homosexuals, he's not equating homosexuality with pedophilia. You're unfair and ridiculously incapable of keeping it together.
121 - Bliffle
Gee Dave, if it's alright for Foley to go after this teenage page then it was alright for our highschool teacher to go after my best friend T, which screwed his understanding of sex and love and resulted in his death 20 years later by his own hand. And, I guess, it was alright for the baseball coach my teenage son trusted to go after him, too, which screwed his understanding of sex and love and resulted in his death 20 years later by his own hand.
Go to hell Nalle.
122 - Silas Kain
I am the product of sexual abuse by a male pedophile. For years it clouded my judgement when it came to love, sexuality and self-worth. I am gay. I was born this way. The predator who sexually violated me used my gay nature to his advantage. Though there are scars, I am sufficiently healed. Many times I could have taken my own life. I didn't. One of the reasons why that is the case is because I didn't allow myself to fall victim to the religious and political leaders who tried to paint me as an aberration. Thank God there were members of my family who loved me more than they cared about what the neighbors thought. Before blaming homos for those who die at their own hand, take a look at those around them who "loved" them unconditionally.
123 - Dave Nalle
well, his name will still be on the ballot, thanks to the convienient 11th hour exposure of his picadilo. A vote for him will really mean a vote for his Republican replacement.
By all accounts, Joe Negron - who's replacing Foley in the election - is a good candidate, probably better than Foley. He's more of a traditional republican and not one of the hardcore religious types.
Dave
124 - Dave Nalle
You misrepresent Dave's reasoning because you think he's a homophobe. Even if he isn't particularly fond of homosexuals, he's not equating homosexuality with pedophilia. You're unfair and ridiculously incapable of keeping it together.
I didn't even realize Shark was trying to suggest that I was a homophobe. It's such a ludicrous idea that I couldn't believe that even Shark would be that dumb. Now that you bring it up I guess that could have been what he was trying to say, though how he could reach that conclusion based on anything I've written is mystifying.
Dave
125 - Dave Nalle
Bliffle, I haven't said it was alright for Foley to make sexual advances to pages, just that they were of legal age. It's not alright because it was an abuse of power and sexual harassment. That seems to be the case in the two personal examples you cite as well. The point being that even if consensual sexual discussion with these teens was legal, it's still inappropriate.
Dave