Do our politicians work for us – or not?
Despite the administration's and its supporters' feverish beating of the drums to the tune of "Happy Days Are Here Again," the economic evidence is mounting that not only have we not emerged from the recession, but that we may well be heading for a double dip, as economists call back-to-back recessions.…
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26 - Leroy
Quite right, GC.
27 - Cannonshop
How can government make Wall Street behave responsibly with other people's money, Glenn, when they can't behave responsibly themselves with other people's money? I mean, seriously, the secretary of the Treasury was a hedge-fund manager who couldn't handle doing his own taxes, and we have a Congress chock full of people who think "if there's checks in the book, WE got money."
it is simplistic thinking to assume that just increasing taxes and adding regulations, especially regulations written by irresponsible people, and taxes based not on raising revenue, but on punishing "The Rich", will have a net positive effect.
Discipline in spending, and careful management of LIMITED funds is what we need, not reckless expansion of funds to borrow against and reckless, careless, politically motivated spoils-system 'regulations'.
There are a lot of people (Myself included) who would not oppose tax increases, if the Government were run with any sort of frugality or fiscal responsibility...but it is not.
28 - handyguy
Cannon, Tim Geithner never worked for a hedge fund. Except for a brief stint right out of college working for a consulting firm [Henry Kissinger's, actually], all his jobs have been with the government. He is not a Wall St gazillionaire.
And all you seem to think you know about him involves some minor but embarrassing errors concerning 'independent contractor' status on his tax form -- which is indeed very confusing, as I and other freelance workers can attest. I guess you've never made a mistake; and if you have, you won't mind someone bringing it up every time your name is mentioned. He's a brilliant guy; your snark is, shall we say, less than brilliant. You are enthusiastic about throwing mud, but not so much when it comes to getting your facts straight.
29 - Clavos
And all you seem to think you know about him involves some minor but embarrassing errors concerning 'independent contractor' status on his tax form -- which is indeed very confusing, as I and other freelance workers can attest.
Aaaawww, poor Timmy! That big bad bully, Cannonshop is picking on him!
According to the WSJ, Mr. Geithner's "error" lasted several years, occurred while he worked at the IMF, and that the IMF advises all its employees in writing that they will owe, and must pay the taxes.
Timothy Geithner didn't pay Social Security and Medicare taxes for several years while he worked for the International Monetary Fund...The Obama team said Mr. Geithner's taxes have been paid in full, and that he didn't intend to avoid payment, but made a mistake common for employees of international institutions. That characterization was contested by Senate Finance Republicans, who produced IMF documents showing that employees are repeatedly told they are responsible for paying their payroll taxes.
He cheated. He got caught. Poor Timmy.
30 - Glenn Contrarian
Cannonshop -
In your time in the Navy, did you ever get the opportunity to go into the shipyards at PSNS and at Todd? I know that all of us onboard really dreaded going to Todd - they were not as safe, not as clean, and we had to hide our tools and personal effects because Todd workers would steal us blind if they got the opportunity?
And why is that? Because Todd - being a civilian for-profit company - was in the business to make money, and part of making money is cutting costs whenever one can. As a result, they did not spend nearly enough money on safety or on cleanliness, and since their workers - unionized though they were - had to fight to get hours, in the end they weren't making a whole lot of money.
But the owners and shareholders of Todd sure made a lot of money.
I hope you get my point that the 'profit motive' doesn't belong in government. Did I see fraud, waste, and abuse in my time in? Sure. So did you and everyone else who served even a few years. BUT you will see such fraud, waste, and abuse at all institutions including the very best for-profit businesses. F,W and A is a fact of life in human organizations, and the best we can do is minimize it when we see it.
In government service, at least, since nobody works for the government to get rich, people are there not to make a profit, but to get the job done. In a for-profit company, the worker is there to make money...regardless of how important the job is or is not, the primary job of the worker is to make money - and this includes cutting costs wherever possible. All too often this includes cutting corners when it comes to cleanliness, to safety, and to personnel.
That's why the profit motive is crucial for business...but the profit motive does NOT belong in the military, education, health care, fire protection, police, or anything else that is meant to keep the everyday American healthy and safe enough to do his or her job.
31 - Clavos
...since nobody works for the government to get rich, people are there not to make a profit, but to get the job done.
No, that's not what the facts show.
Actually, in terms of total compensation (including benefits), most government workers make more than their private sector counterparts.
According to Reason magazine (and many other sources):
"...as of December 2009, state and local government employees earned total compensation of $39.60 an hour, compared to $27.42 an hour for private industry workers-a difference of over 44 percent. This includes 35 percent higher wages and nearly 69 percent greater benefits."
Not only are government workers better paid, in most departments it is almost impossible to fire them, even for cause. Again, according to Reason:
"Government job security is famously, and notoriously, ironclad, oftentimes making it practically impossible to fire or lay off public-sector workers for the same reasons employees are terminated in the private sector, even in cases of poor performance or unethical activity."
And, to top it off, Reason tells us government workers aren't as productive as their private sector doppelgangers:
"...according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) National Compensation Survey, private-sector employees worked an average of 2,050 hours in 2008, 12 percent more than the 1,825 hours worked by the average public-sector employee."
And in conclusion, Reason notes:
"Lower quit rates indicate a lack of better job opportunities elsewhere. Indeed, as the Cato Institute's Chris Edwards points out (see pages 92-93), BLS data reveal that the quit rate is significantly lower in the public sector than in the private sector. Between 2001 and 2009, the public sector layoff and discharge rate is only about one-third of the private-sector rate."
32 - Leroy
12-Clavos is just a more ornate version of the usual tu quoque that we expect from Clavos. How tiresome.
33 - Clavos
12-Clavos is just a more ornate version of the usual tu quoque that we expect from Clavos. How tiresome.
Isn't it? Tiresome and boring. He's such a dolt.
34 - Irene Athena
At least he's ornate.
35 - Clavos
:-)
36 - Clavos
Some would say he's more rococo than ornate...
Just sayin'
37 - Irene Athena
LOL. I love this place too much.
I have to go.
38 - Glenn Contrarian
Clavos -
I did not say that the government employees are not paid well, did I? No, I did not. In fact, I even implied that their counterparts at Todd Shipyard were less well-paid, for the profit motive of the owners and stockholders impel the company to cut costs whenever and wherever they can.
And what is the result? Todd Shipyard is a place that is less safe, not nearly so clean, and one has to watch out for thieves to a far greater extent than at the guv'mint-run shipyard.
Again, there's a time and a place for the profit motive - and that's NOT in the military, the police, fire departments, health care, or education...all of which are part of the infrastructure that enables Americans to be better able to do their jobs and to compete in business.
This is how it works in the rest of the first-world democracies...and while it's never perfect, overall it works quite well, thank you very much.
39 - Glenn Contrarian
Clavos -
There's something wrong with this thread - it's as if the page is locked.
40 - Glenn Contrarian
Oops - I mean this thread.
41 - Clavos
I reported it, Glenn.
42 - Dr Dreadful
"...as of December 2009, state and local government employees earned total compensation of $39.60 an hour..."
Harrumph. Must be nice.
I make less than half that, and I've been a (quasi) governmental employee for nine years.
"...private-sector employees worked an average of 2,050 hours in 2008, 12 percent more than the 1,825 hours worked by the average public-sector employee."
Furloughs?
43 - Clavos
I make less than half that, and I've been a (quasi) governmental employee for nine years...
The key phrase there is "total compensation." Are you counting all your bennies to the degree that your employer pays them?
If you are, then consider that your employer (which I believe you once said is the state of California?) is bankrupt. Given that and the fact they are severely underpaying you, perhaps it might be a good idea to update your resume?
What does "quasi" mean in your case?
44 - Dr Dreadful
"Quasi" means I work for a housing authority, which is an autonomous agency not part of any federal, state or local government, although we do administer federal and some local funds and operate under federal regulations. (Although some HAs are part of their local city or county government, ours isn't.)
I am currently in the process of "updating my resume", as it were. Watch this space...
45 - Clavos
Here's a story that might interest you, Doc.
As you probably know (I've mentioned it on these threads before), I worked for the 2000 census. My crew censused most of the south end of South Beach, which was when I discovered two five or six story buildings on the water, overlooking the Miami Beach Marina (full of mega yachts) and flanked on both sides by towering condo buildings whose units are in the $800K up price range (and $800K buys you a studio apartment). Anyway these two buildings, which are also the oldest buildings on the block (so were probably there before SoBe gentrified) are still Section 8 housing. Lucky residents!
46 - Glenn Contrarian
That's funny...and I believe it.
47 - Dr Dreadful
Project-based Section 8, Clav, or a private landlord with a mission?
I believe you mentioned this at some point in the past... and it was a private owner who had two blocks full of loyal tenants and regular guaranteed rents. Am I right? :-)
(BTW, that's a major selling point of the voucher program: whereas renting your property is always a risk, with Section 8 you're guaranteed to get at least part of the rent each month even if the tenant defaults on their portion.)
48 - Cannonshop
#30 Wrong service, Glenn, I was Army, though I do work with quite a few former Squids and formerly-active Marines (intermixed with the normal, never-been-there civilians).
On the subject of fraud, waste, etc., it may be moot to point out that Todd, minus Navy business, would've been out and gone decades ago because of the practices you note-it's not symptomatic of for-profit business, it's symptomatic of being able to parasitize off Government Contracting as one's sole business and reason for existence. IOW, a shining example of Corporate Welfare, not competitive market capitalism.
49 - Clavos
Here are two articles, published today, which come to very similar conclusions about the state of the US economy as I do.
The first, published in Investor's Business Daily, had this to say:
Consider these data, all from one day:
• ADP reported that, based on its payroll tally, 38,000 private jobs were created in May, 100,000 short of the minimum needed for healthy growth.
• Employment consultant Challenger, Gray & Christmas said businesses cut 37,135 jobs last month, up nearly 2% from April.
• Housing prices in the U.S. plunged 4.2% in the first quarter, the lowest since the financial crisis began.
• The Mortgage Bankers Association's mortgage application index fell 4% in the final week of May.
• The Institute for Supply Management reported its factory activity index tumbled from 60.4 in April to 53.5 in May, the lowest since September 2009.
And, writing in The Wall Street Journal, Daniel Henninger notes:
The policy most explicitly intended to reboot the economy was 2009's $814 billion stimulus and successive budgets that raised federal spending to 25% of a $14 trillion economy. In this year's first quarter, the economy grew at 1.8%. Liberal economists, such as former Obama economic adviser Christina Romer, argue the stimulus should have been bigger, $1.2 trillion. Others wanted $2 trillion. We leave that to a generation of seminars in macroeconomics. Barack Obama, believing that $800 billion of injected "demand" would lift the economy, decided to devote his political capital and congressional majorities to reorganizing two major American industries, health care and finance.
Our economy is still hurting, and is now perilously close to sinking into a "double dip" recession. Meanwhile, Mr. Obama distracts himself with his unworkable plan to improve our health care delivery system, and like George Bush, with his very own Middle East conflict, in Libya.