After years of divided, muted response to cries for decisive immigration reform in either direction — with the labyrinthine issues of law, economics, human rights, and culture further complicated by the horrors of 9/11 — there appears to be momentum building for actual legislative action regarding the fate of the U.S.'s estimated 11 million illegal immigrants.
Yesterday, in response to intense pressure building from large public demonstrations — Monday, 100,000 marchers converged on the Arizona state Capitol to demand that Congress not criminalize illegal immigrants as part of a nationwide immigrant "Day of Action," 350,000 had marched in Dallas Sunday — and mixed messages from within their own party, the two top Republicans in Congress, House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee, said, "It remains our intent to produce a strong border security bill that will not make unlawful presence in the United States a felony."
A poll by the Washington Post and ABC News released yesterday found over 60 percent of respondents support the current leading Senate proposal addressing border security, a guest worker program and a path to citizenship for many in the country illegally, which calls for illegal immigrants to pay a fine and back taxes as part of a process of qualifying for eventual citizenship.
Only 20 percent of those polled favor legislation passed in the House late last year to build hundreds of miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, require that businesses verify the legality of all employees' status, fortify border patrols, and, most contentiously, declare illegal immigrants and those who help them subject to felony prosecution.
As with other thorny issues — such as abortion rights and the War on Drugs, for example — it comes down for many to what is "right" vs. what is "possible" or at least practical. Social conservatives fear "rewarding" illegal or immoral behavior as a terrible societal precedent that is "wrong" and only encourages more of the same. They want to legislate what "should" be, rather than give in to what "is"; they want to prevent unwanted behavior through law and vigorous enforcement rather than to discourage (as opposed to prohibit) that behavior and mitigate the harm it causes: the prohibition vs. amelioration approach.
The bottom line with illegal immigration is that as long as economic, educational and social opportunity is notably better in the U.S. than in the immigrant's home country (and/or is perceived to be better), especially when that country has a 2,000-mile border with the U.S. as does Mexico, they will come.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Nancy
Uh-hunh. Sooo...does this mean that if I decide not to file my taxes in future, the longer I get away with it, the more I'll be pardoned & given carte blanche to do what I damn well please? I won't be criminalized?
There's a really good political cartoon that sums it up: Uncle Sam to illegal lying on the sofa; broken window in background. US: So let me get this straight. You committed forcible entry & now you're demanding one of the bedrooms?
Illegals ARE felons, and so are those who aid & abet them, in ANY manner, whether thru misguided "humanitarian" efforts, or as employers trying to get around employment law.
2 - RedTard
Interesting perspective. As long as we allow unchecked immigration those low wage native born Americans will never see their wages increase again. The debate brings together strange bedfellows.
The leftists who believe in absolute and forced equality, certainly a fine ideal until you realize that to be an equal world citizen you need to bring your wages down to about $2400/year.
The wealthy businessmen who realize that they can still make billions even if the laborers are only making third world salaries. Their profits and greed are more important than the American middle class. The average person gets screwed again.
3 - Dave Nalle
It only comes down to 'what is right vs. what is legal' if your interpretation of what's legal is extremely rigid. I find that the problem with the argument of those who want an all-enforcement and no tolerance policy is that it ignores the natural forces which bring immigrants to the US. The fact that we have so many illegals is not the fault of the illegals or the Mexican government, it is the fault of our society which demands the cheap labor and our government which has not provided a mechanism through which we can get that labor here legally. While technically this makes the immigrants illegal, that is because of bad law and bad management by our government more than any fault of theirs. That being the case, the law ought to be fixed, rather than the immigrants punished for doing what comes naturally.
Dave
4 - Nancy
I still think the crux of the problem - and the true felons - are the employers, who are the ones who have the actual criminal intent, which is to avoid or circumvent US employment laws, both labor & tax. They don't care who they screw as long as they can make an extra nickel. They're the ones who should be felonized - and severely. Huge fines & hard labor jail time, no matter how big a corporate CEO (Scott Lee of Wallie's would be nice) or how small. Vincente Fox & Co is another cog in this wheel that should be addressed severely.
5 - Dave Nalle
So you want to ciminalize efforts to reduce prices for consumers, make business more efficient and keep producing the products and services which the American people demand? Why not imprison the homeowner who buys a new home on which illegals were used as labor and the shoppers at WalMart and the person who buys vegetables picked by illegal farm labor? Imprison all the Americans who benefit from the labor of illegals, because they are as much at fault as the CEOs who are just doing their job essentially as agents of the consumers who shop at their companies.
dave
6 - Eric Olsen
yes, all this severity against some of the backbones of the economy and top contributors to both parties will happen next week.
7 - Nancy
The consumer does not go out deliberately looking to buy anything made w/illegal labor. I know I sure as hell don't, and if I DO find out, the person peddling whatever it is is going to catch merry hell from me, at the least. I'd go so far as to turn them over to the cops, if I thought the fucking courts would actually prosecute. The employer, on the other hand, IS deliberately, maliciously, & criminally looking to circumvent the laws - which certainly is a felony & ought to be enforced as such, no excuses, no exceptions. They're no better in that respect than the Mafia - so why are you insisting they're persons worthy of respect - or do you also admire & emulate the mob?
8 - Dave Nalle
Actually, I do admire the mob as a model of organic business development, but that's an entirely different issue.
The fact is that whether you realize it or are willing to acknowledge it, you benefit from the labor of illegals every day. They build and maintain the roads you drive on, working as contractors for the companies which bid for those contracts. They DO pick produce which you are buying, even if you don't acknowledge it. They also work in the meat packing businesses which produce the meat you buy at the store. They work in the restaurant where you get lunch, at the place you get your oil changed, and myriad other businesses you use either directly or indirectly.
You can say you don't buy anything produced by illegal labor, but if you were going to pursue your suggested policy of turning all the employers over to the cops and they were actually crazy enough to pay attention to you, there'd be no one left to provide any of the services we all need.
Dave
9 - gonzo marx
Red in comment #2 sez...
*The wealthy businessmen who realize that they can still make billions even if the laborers are only making third world salaries. Their profits and greed are more important than the American middle class. The average person gets screwed again.*
Quoted for Truth
Nancy in comment #4 sez...
*I still think the crux of the problem - and the true felons - are the employers, who are the ones who have the actual criminal intent, which is to avoid or circumvent US employment laws, both labor & tax. They don't care who they screw as long as they can make an extra nickel.*
Quoted for Truth
nuff said?
Excelsior!
10 - Nancy
Dave, just because you, congress, and most businessmen are amoral & willing to ignore or break the law does not mean everybody thinks that way. I don't.
11 - George
I just cancelled my Marriott Rewards membership, sent them an email saying why, and am recommending to all my friends and family that they not patronize any Marriott company anymore.
12 - RedTard
Will hispanic immigrants be content with citizenship only or are these protest signs of things to come? With high dropout rates and a constant inflow of uneducated workers hispanics are likely to remain an underclass in US society as blacks have before them.
In 10 or 15 years when those poor mexican immigrants band together for an increase in the minimum wage or more inclusion in affirmative action programs or other welfare benefits. When they bring their leftist ideologies and vote them here I suspect Mr. Nalle will be muttering something unintelligible about the border, and commies, and strangely enough pandora's box.
13 - Eric Olsen
I am not saying anyone is worthy of anything - I am talking about practical reality; and the practical reality is that there will NOT be laws severely penalizing employers for employing illegals. The other reality is that, as Dave mentions, the entire economy of the West, Southwest, and border states would collapse if illegals were suddenly swept from the country. Those facts, combined with the fact that most illegals are hard-working and otherwise law-abiding has led to the changes we appear to be on the verge of.
This same general scenario is why abortions are legal, and why I am hopeful the War on Drugs will finally give up the ghost at some point.
14 - RedTard
Ok, Eric, you want to talk reality. The reality is that Mexicans, because they come in poor and uneducated, speak a different language, and have a high US dropout rate they will become an underclass, like blacks. That WILL create conflict and problems for future generations.
You're selectively ignoring the reality that goes against your opinion. Another reality is that we can, without great cost, cut future illegal immigration down by 90% of what it is now.
Sending current illegals away is impractical, cutting down 90% of new illegal immigration is quite possible. Importing an underclass that will ultimately result in racial and ethnic conflict is plain idiotic.
15 - Eric Olsen
I can see both sides, I understand the negatives of a large, uneducated, undocumented community/underclass.
But I would ask two things: how are you going to cut future illegals by 90%?
And how is it any different now than the last 100 years and more? You make it sound like illegal immigration, and Mexican immigration in general, is a new thing.
16 - gonzo marx
well Eric...illegals are NOT new...
but the sheer scale of the numbers is
and that is what makes this debate so crucial, for so many reasons
a tighter border, and strict enforcement against hiring undocumented workers, along with criminal charges against those who knowingly hire illegal aliens would cut down at least 90% of the new arrivals by both removing the "demand" of promised employment/social benefits as well as shortening the "supply" by placing a much more difficult physical barrier in the way
just a Thought, and yes,i am deliberately staying away from the 10-12 million already here
but do we really want to make it 20 million or more in the next few years?
Cause and Effect...whether in physics or social problems...remains pertinent
Excelsior!
17 - RedTard
"how are you going to cut future illegals by 90%?"
We probably won't, but if I were dictator here is a start.
Barriers do work, if not for the Pacific Ocean we'd have a few hundred million more people here. We can't do that well, but we can build a barrier with electronic surveillance and adequate manpower that is effective. (For $100 or so per violation cities across the country will put up an armada of cams to surveille and punish legal citizens, I think we can afford to offer our Mexican friends the same respect)
Catch'em once if they get here. Our revenue generation officers don't pick up illegals because there is no money involved. Reimburse them for their expenses plus some and they'll gladly enforce the law.
Punish employers who hire them. Provide a reward for tips leading to pickups. Competitors and citizens will then be your eyes and ears on the street.
Cut off funding for government agencies who refuse to check citizenship status or thumb their nose at the law.
Work with Mexico to open their country for our businesses, or punish them with sanctions if they continue to allow and promote illegal immigration.
Expand work opportunites and legal immigration for Mexicans with some education and English language standards.
"And how is it any different now than the last 100 years and more?"
Sheer numbers. In the 80's we had an estimated 1 million illegals, now we have 11 million. It's a cycle where the more illegals are here, the more acceptable it becomes which brings more immigrants.
Either way something has to change. I seem to remember something in history about bringing another group here to pick our crops without treating them as equal citizens. One war, hundreds of thousands killed, seperate but equal, forced integration, civil rights, and 200 years later we still haven't fully paid our debt for that one.
18 - Dan
What happens after illegals are made citizens and become elligible for affirmative action quotas, hiring and contract set-asides etc.?
Who will pick the lettuce then?
19 - Nancy
According to Time, 1/3 of all high school students these days are dropouts. There's our new labor source for drudge work, which will kill 2 birds with one stone: those kids who drop out end up picking lettuce; those that don't want to pick lettuce have to stay in school. Mandating manual labor for dropouts would certainly serve as a powerful incentive to stay in school & get that degree.
20 - Eric Olsen
I have never understood why 16 is the age where kids can chose to drop out of school: why isn't it 18 or graduation?
21 - Joey
18 or recruit training.
22 - Bliffle
"...100,000 marchers converged on the Arizona state Capitol to demand that Congress not criminalize illegal immigrants ..."
They are already criminals. that's what happens when you commit illegal acts.
The rest of the article is repitition of the whiney propaganda we've all become lamentably familiar with recently. All of it bogus, none of it provable, and not a single idea that will offer even a hope of stopping the tide of desparate people in Mexico (and some other countries) willing to break the law to better their conditions.
The solution is obvious: improve Mexican economy to remove the economic incentive. We have in our possession the most powerful tool for doing that: the independent US businessman and capitalist. But archaic Mexcican protectionism of powerful families and confiscatory laws and corruption inhibit US investment in Mexico. Get rid of that with forceful diplomacy and military force, if necessary, and Mexico will blossom. But that would take the kind of personal courage and straight-shooting that this administration lacks.
23 - Bliffle
"...the entire economy of the West, Southwest, and border states would collapse if illegals were suddenly swept from the country."
Nonsense. The economy was just fine before they came, so it can't have become dependent on the least effective economic sectors.
24 - Victor Plenty
"Before they came?" What monumental ignorance. This country has never been through any significant stretch of its history without having extremely porous borders.
Whatever nostalgic past you may be pining for, it was one with plenty of immigrants, both legal and illegal, crossing into the United States from the south.
And then of course there were the times we arranged for the border to move across the people instead of the other way around, but awareness of those is rather inconvenient for the xenophobic mindset.
25 - RedTard
Does it make you feel good to call people names like ignorant and xenophobic Victor?
Name calling is the last resort of people with no argument. You bring up history, we've tried bringing people in to pick our crops before, it led to war and a violent racial conflict that lasts till this day. It's you that wants that nostalgic past of racial and ethnic violence brought back. If you allow enough poor, uneducated Mexicans into this country it will return.
I want to try something new, enforcing our border laws. Let's try taking care of those in poverty here before we try and take care of Mexico's poor. We already have enough oppressed minorities, why import more?