A lot of faulty reasoning is being bandied around the media regarding Imus, his insult of the Rutgers women’s basketball team, and his firing. They usually come down to four widespread fallacies:
1. Why are people offended by Imus, but not by the same kind of language used in rap and hip-hop records and culture?
Poor analogy. Rap and hip-hop make general statements (bad, good, insulting, whatever) about general classes of people in society. Imus insulted real individuals – in fact, women who were not celebrities, but players on a college basketball team. General insults, not specifically directed at you, can be easily ignored. An attack on a real individual cannot – certainly not by that person.
Here is an example: I’m a college professor. If someone says, “college professors are liars,” I can laugh that off. If someone says, you, Professor Levinson are a liar, I can hardly walk away from that.
Bottom line: There’s a world of difference between a general insult and a targeted insult. Rap is social commentary, and does not need to be restrained. What Imus said was personally damaging, and has no place in our media or our culture.
2. Imus apologized to the Rutgers women; why don’t the Revs Sharpton and Jackson apologize to the Duke lacrosse players, wrongly accused of rape?
Also a poor analogy. Although Sharpton and Jackson do owe the lacrosse players an apology, the two situations are not comparable. Sharpton and Jackson were commenting on an alleged crime. What crime or anything of negative note occurred with the women’s basketball team at Rutgers, to warrant Imus’s comment? None. In fact, they were in the news because of a positive accomplishment, doing well on the basketball courts. Imus’s comment was thus worse than insulting: he attacked people who should have been praised and toasted, not insulted, for their accomplishments.
3. Why don’t we go after other media celebrities who traffic in insult – Ann Coulter, Rosie O’Donnell, take your pick – now that Imus has been held to account?
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Zedd
Whewwww! Thanks!
2 - Clavos
Imus needed to go.
But he "went" only because he cost his employers revenue, which means he'll probably be back in short order.
3 - Paul Levinson
Zedd - thanks.
Clavos - you're right about why Imus was fired, and may well be right about what happens next.
I didn't discuss MSNBC and CBS in my "Fallacies," piece, but will in a future piece here.
The short of it: Both networks were way too slow to fire Imus, and deserve only a little credit for finally doing it.
Just another indication that tv networks are dinosaurs, slowly sinking in the pit.
4 - Clavos
I dunno. They're just businesses, with their eye on the bottom line. When that got endangered, they acted.
Their goals have nothing to do with improving society, just with making money by entertaining.
They're not social arbiters, nor are they intended to be.
5 - Zedd
Paul
Thank you so very much for bringing logic to this issue.
From a personal standpoint I certainly am baffled as to why it took the networks so long to "do the right thing" (couldn't resist).
However I am huge on celebrating. Despite the strange outrage from many Americans and the gut wrenching indication of a deep lack of "humanness" in our country, I am ecstatic that we are where we are!
I made it mandatory for my children to watch Roots this week on TV1. There is a 30yr anniversary showing of the series, which ends on Sunday. I was a small child and felt a great deal during the original viewing and I remember many Whites saying what they are saying about the activists who have admonished Imus. They said the showing of Roots was inciting Blacks and hate in America. They said that Blacks need to move on.
Watching roots this time I was struck as an adult by just how relevant the themes and messages of that time to both African Americans, Whites and the rest of the population are today. I was struck by the significance of really facing our past and how little we know. As the Imus story unfolded and everyday another sponsor pulled out and another punitive action was enacted, I couldn't help but think of those people in the middle passage the fields, who would have never thought the nightmare would be so close to ending.
Yes it is deplorable that such small things are considered victories and am slightly embarrassed for finding joy in such tiny remnants of skewed respect. But for those people I DELIGHT and sing. For me and my pride I shrug and roll my eyes.
6 - Zedd
Clavos
I dunno. They're just businesses, with their eye on the bottom line. When that got endangered, they acted
In the past, even money didn't make a difference in such matters. Maintaining the dignity of a White man was paramount.
This is a wonderful commentary on our society today. If the important currency is currency, than it is EVERYONES currency. That is new. We are loosing our hypocrisy.
You see we claimed to be democratic nearly 200 years before we were. We claimed to have a free market, long before we really did.
Its good to see us be who we claim to be.
7 - Clavos
It's always been about the money.
Money is why slaves were brought here in the first place.
8 - Paul Levinson
Zedd - a true pleasure to meet an optimist! The world could benefit from more with your sunny point of view!
9 - Hit
[b]
So "Imus" Said "Nappy Headed Hoes" during his radio show .
And some people made it into this huge racial slur.. and demanded he be fired. Even after he flew down got on AIR and gave a public apology that he made a mistake on his live radio show. He was attacked the entire time he was trying to reason and explain his mistake. and now fired.............
BUT!!!!!! Tonight on BET.. april 14, 2007
At 10:30 pm - On the Show "Girlfriends" (Written Story Line)
at one point the black barber see's a picture of one of the main characters (who is a black women) and says
"forget that, NAPPY HEADED HEFFER" ................[/b]
Quote unquote...
if someone has the name of this episode holla.
........... okay ill let yall reply!!! Who's Really is in the right or wrong, this is not a white,black or brown thing, we are all one... we are all humans. Enjoy life.
10 - Zedd
Clavos
Money buys power and pride.
Its always about pride and power.
Racism is power for FREE. Poor Whites get to have power without merit. That is why it's so hard to give up. Read these threads. Its personal. People are fighting for their status and relevance, not Imus or Al Sharpton or rap or free speech. You've been on this site for some time. There have been massive discussions about free speech. There have also been articles about rap. None have rendered this massive and emotional response.
11 - Paul Levinson
Hit - the difference is, as you indicate, that the show on BET was fiction, and the barber was a character in that show.
Big difference between a fictional character saying something, and a real life media personality, wouldn't you agree?
12 - Clavos
Wrong.
Slaves were brought here to enable their owners to make more money planting, growing and harvesting their crops, primarily cotton. Nothing more. Power and pride didn't even figure into race relations at that point; they didn't have to.
Money is the bottom.
You said it yourself: Money buys power. This is true; despite all the platitudes, money can buy anything except life itself. And does.
13 - Zedd
Hit
Gosh I wish you had posted that on the other thread. I sort of looked at this as a refuge.
I can't explain that comment to you because it is cultural. I wish I could but it would take a movie or something to make it clear to you.
Saying "nappy hair" is not a bad thing. You missed the point. We talk about our hair getting nappy all of the time.
That comment by a HAIR DRESSER (talking about tangled kinky HAIR) on a SITCOME (about fictitious people.... see article above) makes sense don't you think? Also there was no sexualization of the character and there was no Jigaboo reference.
I hope that helps.
I'm curious. Which character was it?
14 - Dave Nalle
The short of it: Both networks were way too slow to fire Imus, and deserve only a little credit for finally doing it.
When those networks hired Imus they knew what they were getting. Firing him over this is nothing but pure hypocrisy, and the speed with which it was done isn't terribly relevant. As a stockholder in both networks through their parent companies I don't appreciate it. His ratings would have skyrocketed after this, and he did apologize and it was accepted by the Rutgers players and their coach.
Ah hell, I'll just sell my GE and Viacom stock to cover my IRA contributions.
Dave
15 - Paul Levinson
Dave - I'd say it's a good idea to sell your stock in any case. Ten years from now, there won't be much left of the networks...
16 - Clavos
GE and Viacom are a whole hell of a lot more than just networks...
Dave,
The spam filter swallowed one of my comments on this thread about an hour ago, and it just did it again on the "If Don Imus Goes..." thread
Can you "let my comments go?"
17 - Dave Nalle
To be entirely honest, I'm going to keep my GE because my sister works for NBC and they are nice and diverse - their credit business is particularly strong - but Viacom is toast. I actually sold it yesterday. And not because of the Imus thing. I'm just not confident in the way they're managed.
And Clavos I did free your enslaved comment.
Dave
18 - midwhitecrisis
You people crack me up. Once again justification comes to the rescue as a knight in shining armour. He said, She said, this is what it means, here's the difference in how what he says compares to what he says. Don't you nappies and whities get it man? The fact is it's being done and everyboby's busy explaining who's got the right to say what they want to say, when really nobody should be saying any of it. This isn't free speech, it's divisive filth. Whether it's a brotha callin the girl a ho, or white trash talkin' smack. Quit trying to find reasons for these pathetic lower than common class grunts. Why would you even take these people serious in the first place? Do they even represent who you relly are, or are you just that bored with yourself that you don't know how to take charge of your own life and separate yourselves from the elite. Stop looking to these people for direction, they don't represent normal people. A person calling a woman a ho, no matter who it is should not impress you. Rappers are not educated. Money does not equate to brains. Don Imus is not the authority on logic. Wake up America.
19 - Paul Levinson
midwhite: Who said formal education is a prerequisite to making an important contribution to society? As Mark Twain put it, never let going to school get in the way of your getting a good education...
By the way - for those of you who enjoy being riled up or soothed by sound, you're welcome to hear me make much the same points as I did in the above, in the lastest episode of my Light On Light Through podcast. Does have a nice song at the end...
Back to midwhite - I take some rappers very seriously, because they are among the best poets of the past few decades ... all too few people know how to wield words these days
20 - Paul Levinson
Dave wrote: To be entirely honest, I'm going to keep my GE because my sister works for NBC and they are nice and diverse - their credit business is particularly strong - but Viacom is toast. I actually sold it yesterday. And not because of the Imus thing. I'm just not confident in the way they're managed.
Well, you're right about GE v. Viacom.
Viacom is completely out of touch. They threaten to sue YouTube every other week, they've let the CBS Evening News run itself into the ground, they still don't have a cable news operation...
William Paley would have been furious.
21 - Rodney Welch
Levinson, You need to fix your podcast. The fucking thing won't shut off.
22 - Paul Levinson
I just went over to the Light On Light Through page, and (a) the podcast is not playing automatically, and (b) if you start playing it, you stop the play just by hitting the stop bottom...
Anyway - glad you enjoyed what you heard... :)
23 - Zedd
Paul,
I love your podcast. Bravo!
24 - Paul Levinson
Zedd - thank you!
25 - Rodney Welch
At your MySpace page, you start yammering automatically and can only be silenced with the volume control. I finally bailed, having had more than enough of your feeble thinking in the article above.
In fact, it's not a poor analogy at all to compare Don Imus to a whole vast hip-hop culture that trades in degradation on a regular basis. In that regard, the fact that one is targeted, versus one that is supposedly general, has no meaning whatsoever.
Not only that, you lapse into a truly ugly, patronizing, repulsive authoritanisnism when you say: "Rap is social commentary, and does not need to be restrained. What Imus said was personally damaging, and has no place in our media or our culture."
In other words, you, Levison, have this great imperial sense of which voices should be silenced and which should not, and why one man's racism should be rejected but a whole culture of degradation is perfectly okay.
Why is it okay with you? Because you're a white guy who wants to look hip and you feel you have no other option.
I don't buy it. Your distinctions are meaningless. You're hung up on whether one thing plus another makes for a proper analogy and you're blind to a much greater issue at hand.
I don't agree with a thing Don Imus said, and I can't say I disagree with his firing. It was a matter of live by capitalism, die by capitalism; Imus had made a pile of dough by entertaining people, and now had become a huge liability to the company and advertisers who sponsored him.
Still, I'm sorry to see him go. He played a unique role in American life, and if you judge people on the whole of their career, rather than occasional incidents (and there have been a few with Imus, admittedly) I think there's a lot more to be said in his favor than not.
I would have liked to see him continue; indeed, I'd hate to see us get to the point where everything offensive is purged from the air, whether that means the occasionally ugly sentiments of Don Imus or the self-righteous mewling of bourgeois snobs such as yourself.
But I would like us to get to the point where we realize that hatred comes packaged in a lot of forms, and to question why we can recognize it in one form and not another.