Ayana: "The question you should be asking yourself is why did top British officials walk away from that meeting under the "assumption" that Bush and Blair were intent on invading Iraq?"
That's actually not the impression they give in the memos. The impression is that Bush and Blair wanted to lay the groundwork for potential war while continuing to pursue peaceful solutions for a bit longer, which frankly seems entirely reasonable to me.
impeachbushcheneynow: "It's difficult to carry on a conversation with people that refuse to acknowldege the truth and use nonsense remarks to try and divert or belittle it.
Theres a tsunami coming. President Cheney and his little dummy can either head for higher ground or drowned in the gutter they live in now."
And that kind of silliness advances the conversation? Come back when you have something to say.
Scott: "This would actually be a fair question for President Bush too, since he doesn't seem to have a plan for any of those."
Well, Bush more or less HAD plans on those, but with all the idiocy going on in congress and the distraction of Iraq the actual meaningful issues seem to have been lost in the shuffle.
of course, i believe it because of totally different Reasons..
it seems that the actual phases of the moon and it's orbit affect Sloop John B's mental dynamics in a sever, quantifiable and totally treatable fashion...
the Rx would be a bottle of 25 year odl single malt, 50 cc of thorazine and about 6 weeks of electro shock while listening to Al Franken
it may not cure him, but i will make a Fortune selling the dvds!!!
"Bush's plan on social security is public (the whole private accounts fight, remember)."
I see, so is there a place I can go and read his specific proposal? All he's done is push private accounts without any other substance to it. It's all smoke and mirrors.
"Bush's plan on health care is public... medical tort reform"
Not really a plan on health care is it?
"Bush's plan on Iraq is public. Stay til the job is done"
Not much of a plan there either. What's the plan for getting the job done precisely? What's the plan for getting troops home? what's the plan for long-term stability in Iraq and the Middle East?
What's the plan Bush?
31 -
Ayana
Jun 22, 2005 at 10:05 am
Dave,
From the memo:
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
No Dave. That doesn't sound like his impression was that Bush was looking for the most peaceful solution.
32 -
SFC SKI
Jun 22, 2005 at 10:47 am
"baffoons" Typo or brilliantly apt new word? You decide.
Ayana, the memo also says that Bush and Blair were committed to following through with the UN as far as was feasible. The perception is that they were preparing for war because it was clear that UN sanctions were not working and were not going to work - that's what 'inevitable' means - it doesn't mean that they wanted to go with the war option, it means that war was becoming the only remaining option, even though they were going to let the peaceful options play out first. Sometimes you have to prepare for war even while pursuing peace.
Dave
34 -
Ayana
Jun 22, 2005 at 2:31 pm
Dave,
Also from the memo:
"The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections."
"It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force."
Oh and Dave, "fix facts", "thin case", and "Saddam was not threatening his neighbors" means the same here as in London.
35 -
Ayana
Jun 22, 2005 at 2:45 pm
Oh and Dave, the word games only works on people who want desperately to believe that Bush wouldn't possibly lie to get us into war. The impression of these officials are in black and white. The Republican Spin Machine needs to find a new record to play because this same old tired song of blaming everyone else for the failures behind this disgusting war obviously doesn't work anymore.
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Article comments
26 - Scott
"What's the Democrats plan on Social Security? Iraq? Taxes? Health Care?"
This would actually be a fair question for President Bush too, since he doesn't seem to have a plan for any of those.
Is it too early to say "lame duck?"
And am I alone in saying after reading several of John Bambi's post that he's an absolute lunatic?
27 - Dave Nalle
Ayana: "The question you should be asking yourself is why did top British officials walk away from that meeting under the "assumption" that Bush and Blair were intent on invading Iraq?"
That's actually not the impression they give in the memos. The impression is that Bush and Blair wanted to lay the groundwork for potential war while continuing to pursue peaceful solutions for a bit longer, which frankly seems entirely reasonable to me.
impeachbushcheneynow: "It's difficult to carry on a conversation with people that refuse to acknowldege the truth and use nonsense remarks to try and divert or belittle it.
Theres a tsunami coming. President Cheney and his little dummy can either head for higher ground or drowned in the gutter they live in now."
And that kind of silliness advances the conversation? Come back when you have something to say.
Scott: "This would actually be a fair question for President Bush too, since he doesn't seem to have a plan for any of those."
Well, Bush more or less HAD plans on those, but with all the idiocy going on in congress and the distraction of Iraq the actual meaningful issues seem to have been lost in the shuffle.
Dave
28 - John Bambenek
Yes, you would be the only one labeling me a lunatic.
Bush's plan on social security is public (the whole private accounts fight, remember).
Bush's plan on health care is public... medical tort reform.
Bush's plan on Iraq is public. Stay til the job is done.
You may disagree, but his plan is out there.
29 - gonzo marx
i can't resist..
Scott is not alone..you are a lunatic
of course, i believe it because of totally different Reasons..
it seems that the actual phases of the moon and it's orbit affect Sloop John B's mental dynamics in a sever, quantifiable and totally treatable fashion...
the Rx would be a bottle of 25 year odl single malt, 50 cc of thorazine and about 6 weeks of electro shock while listening to Al Franken
it may not cure him, but i will make a Fortune selling the dvds!!!
mwahahahaHAHAHAHahaHAHAhAHHAHahhHAHaaaaa
did i just say that out loud?
Excelsior!
30 - Scott
"Bush's plan on social security is public (the whole private accounts fight, remember)."
I see, so is there a place I can go and read his specific proposal? All he's done is push private accounts without any other substance to it. It's all smoke and mirrors.
"Bush's plan on health care is public... medical tort reform"
Not really a plan on health care is it?
"Bush's plan on Iraq is public. Stay til the job is done"
Not much of a plan there either. What's the plan for getting the job done precisely? What's the plan for getting troops home? what's the plan for long-term stability in Iraq and the Middle East?
What's the plan Bush?
31 - Ayana
Dave,
From the memo:
"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action."
No Dave. That doesn't sound like his impression was that Bush was looking for the most peaceful solution.
32 - SFC SKI
"baffoons" Typo or brilliantly apt new word? You decide.
33 - Dave Nalle
Ayana, the memo also says that Bush and Blair were committed to following through with the UN as far as was feasible. The perception is that they were preparing for war because it was clear that UN sanctions were not working and were not going to work - that's what 'inevitable' means - it doesn't mean that they wanted to go with the war option, it means that war was becoming the only remaining option, even though they were going to let the peaceful options play out first. Sometimes you have to prepare for war even while pursuing peace.
Dave
34 - Ayana
Dave,
Also from the memo:
"The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections."
"It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. We should work up a plan for an ultimatum to Saddam to allow back in the UN weapons inspectors. This would also help with the legal justification for the use of force."
Oh and Dave, "fix facts", "thin case", and "Saddam was not threatening his neighbors" means the same here as in London.
35 - Ayana
Oh and Dave, the word games only works on people who want desperately to believe that Bush wouldn't possibly lie to get us into war. The impression of these officials are in black and white. The Republican Spin Machine needs to find a new record to play because this same old tired song of blaming everyone else for the failures behind this disgusting war obviously doesn't work anymore.