Are we looking forward to a future of food riots, civil war, and the breakup of the union by 2012? Some trends experts think so.
It may be mostly schadenfreude, but Russian economist Igor Panarin is convinced that the current economic crisis has a political component which will eventually break the United States apart into as many as six separate nations. He's not alone in this belief. It has long been a staple belief of racist extremist groups and is now being predicted by some on the religious right who are ready with plans for how to rearrange the nation in the face of the Obama presidency. Conspiracy monger Alex Jones even got in on the act on his radio show this weekend, suggesting that there is an active globalist plot to weaken America by breaking it into several smaller nations.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Glenn Contrarian
Doc -
All-out nuclear war could end life on earth, as could runaway global warming (think Venus) and an asteroid or comet strike (think Shoemaker-Levy striking Jupiter).
But like you I really doubt we'd have a general thermonuclear exchange (even though we came really close several times during the Cold War). A massive pandemic - like the 1918 Great Influenza - would kill tens and possibly hundreds of millions, but mankind would survive. The others, well, our only hope is cooperation between the nations...which, if human history is any indication, is unlikely at best until the poo-poo really hits the fan.
27 - Christopher Rose
The risk of one or more of these potential extinction level catastrophes actually happening is reason enough for us to be working harder to colonise other planets as soon as possible.
28 - handyguy
Didn't we, um, fight a war precisely to keep the union together, about 145 years ago? And the first Republican president was the moving force behind that war, with the racist states'-rights Democrats of the period opposing him.
Now Dave, a writer who wants to believe that Republicans are still pure at heart and Dems are still corrupt racists, muses almost longingly about another civil war, since it would be a rebellion against the excesses of the centralized government.
The mind reels.
29 - Lumpy
LOL. You're right. They only read the first page.
30 - Dave Nalle
Handy. Putting aside the issue of slavery, the south was not necessarily wrong on the basic issue of states rights, sovereignty and reducing the power of the federal government.
Dave
31 - pablo
Nalle says in his article:
"Conspiracy monger Alex Jones even got in on the act on his radio show this weekend, suggesting that there is an active globalist plot to weaken America by breaking it into several smaller nations."
Fact is Nalle that Jones has been predicting this for at least 5 years not just this weekend. He is a little more politically than you. As in a whole lot more. Not only that but Daniel Estulin the author of The Bilderberg group over 2 1/2 years ago predicted on video tape the whole current financial meltdown and why he thought this would come to pass.
You may in your extreme naivete say this was all just an accident and it was greed, however only a fool would be so naive. This has been planned for decades, as the US was the last best bastion for freedom in the world, and when it splinters the globalists will move in with their one world facist agenda, headed by David Rockefeller, the Trilaleralists, the Bilderberg group, and the CFR who has been in the business of giving up our sovereignty since the days of Cecil Rhodes.
How naive you are Nalle, and you will cling to your ignorance right up until the end. Have fun in Amerika, I for one have left it, and so glad that I did.
32 - pablo
oh yeah
Obama my ass
33 - Dave Nalle
Wow, Pablo. You expatriated? Would that be physically or only psychically? What country (real or imaginary) did you decide to move to?
Getting any good turon there?
Dave
34 - Steve
The right wing is well Armed group
and locked and loaded
35 - Paul
I've seen this coming for years. If you don't then consider this: We've have a large underclass population in this country, that is dependent on welfare checks and other gov't aid. Imagine their reaction when it's announced that either they will not get their checks or their checks are worthless or their checks have been devalued 90%. You will see Rodney King size riots in every large city in the nation. Add to that the outcry from the elderly who will also not be getting their SSN checks, formerly military and gov't employees that won't get their pensions - there will be millions of people out in arms - that is firearms! If they can't get food, water, health care, medicine, energy, etc, imagine their reaction, all across the nation.
I think the Russian analyst is off as to the actual way the break will occur. Nevada, Utah, Idaho and some other parts of the mountain states will be dominated by the Mormon church and its politicians. Due to the porous border and large amount of illegal immigrants, Southern Cal, Arizona, New Mexico, and southwest Texas could become allied or influenced by Mexico. The rest of Texas has a large black and white population and would not want to be ruled by Mexico. They would either stay independent or join with some of the southern or central states.
Northern Cal minus SF Bay and the liberal coast would be on its own or aligned with Oregon and Washington. Alaskans are very independent and would fight off a Russian takeover. However, Russia could take advantage of the turmoil and send a large invasion force that might be hard to repel.
New York, Wash DC and some Eastern states might band together but New England might tell them to buzz off due to dislike of NY. The northern central tier states might align with Canada. Chicago is pretty corrupt and might try to dominate the remaining central states.
36 - Widewake
Conspiracy monger Alex Jones???????
I got NEWS FOR YOU!! Alex Jones is the only one in the MEDIA THAT HAS TOLD THE TRUTH.
He is the only intelligent person smart enough to read the NWO documents, and warn the public.
NOW you want to report that others are saying the same thing...hahaha(funny)
Ignorant people who write articles and blogs like this one, call themselves informers,journalist on the cutting edge of news,....What a JOKE! Look for another job go FLIP burgers or something cause your useless! Get out of the business and get out of our way! Your article is way behind the times, YOUR LATE we already know this, we read it a long time ago from real journalists and bloggers.
TRUTH HURTS! SORRY!
37 - Graham
America unite.
Load your guns and throw out those who have bought our politicians, taken over our government and usurped the Constitution.
First step is: identify the enemy and the criminals which must be brought to Justice.
Start with Wall Street.
Get rid of the private Federal Reserve by which the international criminals print money and steal in concert with their international owners of other Central Banks. The criminals are the international Zionist Banksters.
Look for the common ethnicity amongst these criminals, but do not mistake Judaism for Zionism or you will charge and bring to trial innocent people.
We must be careful not to repeat the crimes of Hitler which the Zionists sponsored with their money and the lives of innocents to justify the creation of the Zionist controlled State of Israel.
As for Alex Jones. What conspiracy? He relies on facts. He relies on the Globalists own documents. Name calling by the use of 'Conspiracy theorists' is what the Globalists do when they are exposed.
P.S 911 was an inside job. This is a good place to start any investigation.
38 - Dave Nalle
I find it amusing that the Jones trolls show up right after his nationwide show goes on the air. He winds them up and they go out and spew idiocy all over the web.
Read more than the first page of the article, oh and do some research of Jones' work as a disinformation agent for the Russians while you're at it.
And while you're at it, go read some of those NWO documents for yourself. I realize your minds are completely closed, but if you read them objectively you'll see that they don't support Jones' ludicrous assertions in most cases.
Dave
39 - Jack Lovett
This artical is so far from truth,,beats any fiction I've ever read. The writer has his agenda.
40 - George LoBuono
Some think the only way to muzzle the US regime is to fracture it. But the future of global governance is in larger entities, global legal arrangements and groupings more like the EU. With Russia and China and Brazil all of the same size as the US, it's unlikely the US would split up. Even with a dollar collapse, a new currency and banking system could be up in a week and a half, and emergency rations could be given out under promise of the new system, so don't fear total collapse.
Instead, look for greater entities: South America, all of Central America, and more--all under a global commonality of law, NOT a single monster dictating to all, but a simple legal recognition. No single regime can exist without being mostrously corrupt. So, to counter that, the future will see different large governments that can balance each other and allow for critique, legal process and ecological creativity.
41 - jim is mad
Don't get wind up your dresses girls, we will have to just wait and see, won't we?
42 - Vox
I can easily see the white nation of America breaking away and freeing itself of the millstone of the violent and terrorist niggras and the horde of mexcrement illegal invaders and other assorted mudsharks.
43 - Cindy D
Slow day at st0rmfr0nt?
44 - Cindy D
Dave you are getting some scary ones now.
45 - deanla
lately things appear to happen
worse than even bleakest of predictions
so these predictions may hold even truer than what most people would think right now
unfortunately
46 - Big M
Alex Jones is a "conspiracy monger?" [personal attack deleted] He's a realist.
47 - Jon C
History clearly shows that the a break-up is possible but that doesn't mean it's likely. It's much more probable however that things will get much worse economically before they get better. This should motivate the thinking classes to fully examine how our government could fail so glaringly given the enormous power it now wields in clear contravention of the constitution and the intent of the founders. To surrender so much power to the feds and get a safe, orderly and prosperous nation would be one thing but to give up so much and receive so little in return should be all the evidence needed to convict our political elite of incompetence at the least and treason at the worst. Do most of you believe these problems are accidental? Do you think Jefferson, Washington etc...were wrong to warn us, their posterity, against a strong central government? If there is no rebellion it will not be due to lack of reason but due to lack character and strength on the part of we the people. Good luck to us all
48 - Thyrique
Not all Blackz is for Obama. The way iseeit, Blackz suffer more under demz becuz they pay for votes on the cheap. Living in the projects and barely making it for a vote is one heckuva high price for minorities and cheap for the power brokuz. I don't have the answer, but I've heard the gov'ment takz a dolla and gives back 30 cent. I think it may give back less. Let me keep 75 cent and I don't need the gov'ment. They know all that. this is a game of the princes and paupers. Too bad most of us are paupers.
49 - Carl Street
"The people of this country will never consider revolution or the overthrow of its rulers. Anyone who says otherwise is a conspiracy theorist because when the people do not have bread they can eat cake..."
Marie Antoinette
Paris France
1789
50 - KurtB
Reducing the size, cost and power of the Federal Government would mean returning to and following the constraints of the Constitution.
A great idea, long championed by Ron Paul!
51 - Mantos the Elf
"But the future of global governance is in larger entities, global legal arrangements and groupings more like the EU. "
Uh you might want to take a look at the former Yugoslavia (montenegro secceded just like last year)
Czechslovakia split into two.
Numerous small Baltic states...
Scotland getting its own Parliament...
THE FACTS DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR CONCLUSION.
52 - Good Joke
What the hell has this Russian been smoking? Next there will be peace in the middle east, or no better still China becomes a republic of Taiwan, now that makes more sense.
I believe, I believe, I believe!
Well isn't that what idiots are suppose to say? (Get a Life).
53 - CSAcitizen
Globalists are not behind the formation of nations - they are behind all the breakdown of all borders to make the world all ONE - under them. They do not want 'many' nations and will do all they can to stop any break up of a nation into more nations. Lincoln, a Globalist - the main one of his time, was a dedicated Marxist to the day he died, and he brutally forced the Southern Nation of the CSA into his own new nation he created after he destroyed the Founders nation of the US. He Replaced the Founders gov't with one of his own making - a Mraxist gov't that the whole country has been under ever since. The point is - from his very beginning of the establishment of the Elitist OWG in this hemisphere via Lincoln, the whole idea was to make ALL nations into ONE, not allow many nations of their own. Communism (which Marxism is) always needed ONE central ruling power pad to rule from. So the OWG (One World Gov't)does NOT want 'many' nations - they want just ONE - that they rule. That is what the US Federalists have been working for all along. And the US will not break up into 6 or 9 pieces. But it WILL break into two = the ORIGINAL TWO NATIONS THEY BEGAN AS from back in the colonial days.= The CSA and the USA. California may become its' own territory as they don't fit into anyone's format. California has become a whole different and Foreign creature. But the CSA will re-claim back their nation that has been under illegal US Federal occupation for 150 years, held at forced military gunpoint all along. The CSA never surrendered, they are just illegally OCCUPIED by the US Federalists. The CSA and USA are two totally different nations and cultures and have very little in common. You will see this split.
54 - Christopher Rose
Well, I'm a globalist, but I have no interest in getting rid of nations, nor is it even helpful or necessary to do so in order to have a more integrated world. There is no contradiction.
55 - Carlito
I can tell you right now, I think a lot of latinos would like to take over the United States. Their reconquesta as they call it. They reject our language and culture, send whatever money they make in the US back to their home countries, steal jobs from americans, and have contempt for those very same Americans. A lot of Americans are fed up with this and its not going to take a lot for something bad to happen. I could easily see a war between the white europeans and the latinos erupt, there is a lot of anymosity there already. I dont think The whites will have a fight with the black people however, a lot of blacks share the anymosity towards latinos.
56 - Steve
This was one of the most rubbishy commentaries and so full of innacuracies about what and when various people said things, that it is frankly not worth even begginning. Just thought I'd mention it. I won't be back here again, can't imagine why a good and reliable site would link to this rubbish.
Just one clue though. Ron Paul is hardly "FAR RIGHT". His supporters run the full spectrum from left to right, and I am certainly leftist in most regards. He is and always was mainly a Libertarian.
57 - MrB
I've read that in the 1880s (?), post-Civil War period, anyway, the United States of America incorporated as USA, Inc. USA, Inc., the story goes, went bankrupt in 1933, and has been in "receivership" ever since. Under the Uniform Commercial Code, We the People are viewed as "corporate entities" and legal assests of USA, Inc., NOT as US "citizens" with "Constitutional rights." That is, should our nation default, We the People have a "contractual" obligation to pay our nation's debts, or suffer the consequences.
Point: If USA, Inc. is out of business, and selling off (and selling OUT) its assests, if it was any other business, the people would be "let go" (fired), right? That is, We the People would be out of a job (as citizens) and "unemployed" (politically disnfranchised). In other words, the people would become "unemployed citizens" without a "country." That is, legally, in the eyes of the world, we would be political and economic refugees within our own increasinlly irrelevant borders who owe a lot of dangerous people with long memories a lot of money.
It also means that the US government will be unable to perform its ONLY function (under the dead letter Constitution, anyway) to protect its (former) citizens lives, liberty, and property. In which case, it's plausible that one day a Chinese official could appear at our doors with papers demanding our property as payment on defaulted debts, and it would all be perfectly "legal."
When the People figure it out, boy, are they gonna be pissed.
58 - Dave Nalle
Good thing you've been reading things written by fools and idiots, isn't it.
it's plausible that one day a Chinese official could appear at our doors with papers demanding our property as payment on defaulted debts, and it would all be perfectly "legal."
No, it's not plausible, or even possible. The money owed to foreign banks is in the form of structured, non-collateralized debt. It has specific terms for redemption which they have no control over, and it does not include any provision for payment in any form other than cash or replacement bills of credit.
Dave
59 - Biff Baxter
Dave, nearly every empire in the world has ended in a conquest by external nations/tribes which felt they were owed something that was past due.
Amerikwa will be no different. The only thing different this time is that the barbarians will have nuclear weapons when they come knocking.
60 - rebel69
when the crap hits the fan let's not kill each other as in the past,as the mattoids will play us against each other............patriots keep the faith!!!!
61 - MrB
Dave, reading things written by fools, AND wise men, is how we learn to discern between the two. I read YOU, didn't I?
It's neither foolish nor wise, but a fact as I understand it, that the USA is not a "sovereign nation" so much as it is a "legal entity." As such, USA Inc. is contractually obligated under the international Uniform Commercial Code to "make good," or else, just like any other corporate entity on earth whose assets are "legally" seized, if necessary, by force. It's an imperfect analogy. A better criticism would be to say that employees of a bankrupt corporation are not held personally accountable for the debt obligation of the corporation (bad enough they're losing their pensions and health care benefits). It simply occurred to me (not one of the fools I was reading) that if corporate USA is broke, and out of business, where does that leave USA Inc.'s "employees." My concern is, as "legal entities," NOT "citizens" under the UCC, we may not HAVE legal standing in ANY court. Standing as what? Citizens? Of WHAT? A defunct corporation? If you, or anyone else, are unaware that the UCC, not the Constitution, is the law of the land, then all I can say is, welcome to the monkey house. But don't take my word for it. Those are the facts as I understand them. Thanks for pulling this information together. If you have something constructive to add, I'd love to hear it.
As to how it all plays out in the real world, you are in no position to tell anyone what is and what is not "plausible," no less "possible" in a world where up is down and wrong is right and we're making up the rules one day and breaking them the next. Better, I think, to hear what everyone has to say, take precautions, and put our "trust" in a good sturdy ladder.
62 - Dave Nalle
But MrB, the US is not a corporation and the debt it issues is not commercial debt, but in the form of bonds and other securities, so your analogy is worthless, as most conspiracy theories are, because they almost always start from premises which are fallacious.
Dave
63 - MrB
Dave, the government of the United States is located, as I know you know, in the District of Columbia. The District of Columbia was created by "An Act to Provide a Government for the District of Columbia" (aka, The Act of 1871). Under this Act, our government, headquartered in the District of Columbia, is subject to Private International Law, as are all corporate entities, not Constitutional (or Common) Law.
Call it whatever you want. USA, Inc. Corporate America. Or perhaps, Business as Usual. If you were an international lawyer who was expected to know such things, instead of a blogger with nothing better to do than wasting his time (apparently) bantering with a voluntarily unemployed conspiracy theorist, I'd hold you to a higher standard. But, you're not a legal expert, or the last word. Your readers are welcome to fact-check and decide "who's crazy" for themselves.
There's nothing "conspiratorial" about these facts, other than what we "read into" them. There's nothing sinister, necessarily, about the fact that dumbed-down Americans can barely read, are ignorant of their own history, and putty in hands of sweet-talking change agents. Unless, hypothetically, of course, the American people are being deliberately misled. Wouldn't you agree?
MrB
64 - MrB
Btw, since at the moment I DON'T have anything better to do, and since I've been a little off-topic, personally, I do anticipate civil unrest, shortages, and food riots in American cities and hinterlands, and therefore, believing that we ought to live consistent with our beliefs, I'm taking precautions. How it shakes out politically, I have no idea. Think global, act local. Small groups, extended families. Siege mentalities. Not quite "tribal," but wait a couple generations. But I do know one thing: I am going to take an immediate disliking of WHOever, or WHATever, is claiming to be "in-charge."
65 - Morpheus
If the U.S. economy collapses, Canada and Mexico are not going to step in and take pieces of the U.S. They will be reeling under their own financial crises, and they do not have the military power to secure such places. The U.S. military will come down HARD to restore order in America. If they fail, self-sufficient states may form breakaway republics, but these will be decided by the majority of the people living there, who will vote with either their feet or their bullets.
66 - Dave Nalle
Dave, the government of the United States is located, as I know you know, in the District of Columbia. The District of Columbia was created by "An Act to Provide a Government for the District of Columbia" (aka, The Act of 1871). Under this Act, our government, headquartered in the District of Columbia, is subject to Private International Law, as are all corporate entities, not Constitutional (or Common) Law.
Utter bullshit. First off, the Organic Act of 1871 deals with the government OF the District of Columbia, not the federal government located IN the District of Columbia. Not understanding that distinction is a bizarrely stupid misinterpretation of a relatively self-explanatory piece of legislation.
What's more, the act was rescinded and replaced with the DC Home Rule Act in 1973 which was then further amended in 1997, so the act you're so concerned about isn't even in effect any longer.
Call it whatever you want. USA, Inc. Corporate America. Or perhaps, Business as Usual. If you were an international lawyer who was expected to know such things,
What I am is a historian who has actually studied conspiracies and the history of US government at the graduate level and done research so that I have some idea what is true and what is garbage.
instead of a blogger with nothing better to do than wasting his time (apparently) bantering with a voluntarily unemployed conspiracy theorist, I'd hold you to a higher standard. But, you're not a legal expert, or the last word. Your readers are welcome to fact-check and decide "who's crazy" for themselves.
I sometimes wonder if it is the efforts of people to 'fact check' for themselves without any formal training or background or education or analytical skills which leads to these bizarre misinterpretations of law and history. Alex Jones, the community college dropout, certainly lacks the skills to read even the simplest historic or legal documents and draw reasonable conclusions from them.
Unless, hypothetically, of course, the American people are being deliberately misled. Wouldn't you agree?
In the case of Alex Jones I'm not sure if he's just nuts or deliberately misleading people, but it doesn't really matter. The garbage he disseminates has to be opposed regardless.
Dave
67 - Robert
Panarin expects the country to break along lines of ethnicity in a civil war. I’m assuming he means race also, when he refers to ethnicity. Chittum says the same. (Civil War II.) Where they differ drastically is in the partition of the US and those influences that will prevail.
The good professor seems to refer to ethnicity, rather than race, because like all of us here in America he has been intimidated into avoiding any issues involving race altogether, ironically because the issue itself is so explosive. It's almost impossible to discuss race in realistic, candid terms, yet it is one of the most important factors in determining the viability of Professor Panarin's hypothesis in an open discussion. It's as if we are not permitted to discuss race, because many fear it will lead to conflict. These are the same people who deny that any conflict will occur between the races. Amusing. If we're not candid, leaving certain subjects taboo, what's the sense in discussing anything about any situation?
Chittum's idea of break up is a bit different in the results than Parin's. He thinks the Southwest will go to Hispanics in their quest of the fabled land of Aztlan and that they will have a close relationship with Mexico. He believes the Southeast will go black, with the exception of Florida. The rest of the country he sees as white-dominated.
Chittum’s forecast seems more realistic to me, because there is so much contentious fighting right now between all of America’s tribal units it’s blaringly evident it can’t continue as it has without erupting. Every group is at odds with every other group to some extent. And Chittum knows the people of this country much better than Prof. Panarin, especially the racial make-up. Schools, jails and prison are periodically placed on lockdown in mostly California in black/Hispanic areas, and there are racial killings occurring between the two groups in certain neighborhoods in California as well.
But there’s one more factor the Professor hasn’t considered. It’s the Canadian factor. Does he really believe that Canada is going to remain undivided if the racial and political elements in the US are fighting for control? He’s wrong if he does, because the non-whites in Canada will be pursuing uprisings galore once they see their brethren duking it out in the US, and there are staunch white conservatives in Canada, who amount to many people, who will want to fight for their side, so it’s highly unlikely any part of the US will fall under Canadian influence. Canada as well as Mexico will be steeped in so many problems of their own, they won't be in a position to do anything but try to control their own situations.
A US economic collapse is a collapse for the rest of the world too. China is having protests and riots right now, due to the closing of factories and people not being paid. France had 1100 cars set ablaze in one night during the holidays. Greece is having riots right now also. The UK, Spain, and Italy have been embroiled in ongoing conflicts for several years. All these countries will suffer as greatly as the US, if it does indeed collapse economically.
But too, it should be noted that it isn’t all about race. Not anymore. Now we have an 1860 scenario in play. In fact some are saying 2009 is 1860 all over again, because we have the white population breaking along lines of ideology: Secular progressives who want more government control and complete egalitarianism; and a more conservative faction that consists of mainline, conservative moderates, to the far right fringe.
The most vicious fighting could very well between these two groups, because they literally despise each other every bit as much as the various races hate each other, but any contest between them would result in the total elimination of the radical left, because, while they’re more vocal, they’re far, far less in numbers……..and there will be many, many converts.
Too, as other experts have pointed out, although Europe doesn’t have the hordes of dissident third worlders as the US, they still have enough to create turmoil, especially after the ball gets rolling in the US. They’ve already had much more violence occur there than we have here.
Also, Prof. Panarim hasn’t taken into consideration the domino effect the US will create when the choas starts here. The whole world will be affected.
There’s much involved in this coming chaos, and the way it will eventually develop is going to be determined by what various factors are at play when the balloon goes up.
The only thing I think can be forecast with any certainty is that multicultural societies are recipes for disaster, and it only takes a bit of trouble or an economic downturn to prove that’s true.
68 - Dolorosa
As we get closer to the anti-christ (hailed as the Jewish Messiah who will deceive the whole world except for those who follow Christ, the days will get even more evil, and no doubt, the civil arrest will lead to martial law for the U.S. Meanwhile, the Masons are going to have the first ever Masonic ball for Comrade Obama. Read the book, "Toward Soviet America" to see what is coming to the U.S.
69 - Dave/Lauderdale
It is pretty much impossible to forecast such an event,so I won't even attempt it.
I will forecast something that will come to pass without any hestitation,that is that there will be great efforts of the Dems and congress in the near future for the confiscation of weapons and there will be great resistance by millions of the 80 million gun owners in this country to such business.
Good luck to all of you tyrants waiting in the wings,you'll need it.
70 - MrB
I believe you. Are the Alex Jones' of the world wrong -- or "nuts" -- about everything?
Do you mean to say that our leaders never lie, never meet in secret, never conspire to break the law, never mislead the public for personal gain, and DO have our best interests at heart?
If all conspiracy theories are "nuts," and made by "nutcases" like Alex Jones, how does a prosecutor, basing a case on a "nutty" idea like people actually meeting secretly and planning and "conspiring" to commit a crime, prosecute the RICO laws? I'm not a lawyer either, but I presume by collecting evidence and persuading a judge he's got a case. But it's not dismissed out of hand as another nutty "conspiracy" theory.
Or maybe you mean to say that some conspiracy theories have merit, and some don't, and some of our leaders conspire to break the law, and others are genuine public servants. You don't really seem to be saying anything. Other than a couple helpful tips that I really do appreciate, overall you've been a belligerent prick.
But, now I get it, you're a snob! You "studied" conspiracies. AND the history of US government. At the graduate level, no less. My. Most impressive. That explains the stick you've got stuck up your ass. I preume you haven't actually received your doctorate, yet, or I'm sure you would have said so. If not, stay with it. You seem to have to stuff it takes to go far in academia. If yes, take heart, all is not lost. But leaves unexplained how someone as smart and informed as you'd have to be, can be so naive, or worse. If what you say is true, by rights, you'd be in a position to know better.
Curious thing about Alex Jones, and others like him. I'm not a big fan, but I've heard Alex Jones attacked a million times as this that and the other thing. But I can't remember ONCE when anyone actually successfully challenged him on his facts and refuted a specific claim he made. Not that he's never wrong, just that nobody ever says how, or why. This isn't the time or place to argue that point. Other than to say, neither did you. Why would you even bring conspiracy theories and Alex Jones into this? Out of intellectual laziness? Habit? To discredit someone's ideas by association? Or was it just your friendly little way of telling me to fuck off?
71 - MrB
ROBERT: Enjoyed (!?) your post. You said,
"But too, it should be noted that it isn't all about race. Not anymore. Now we have an 1860 scenario in play. In fact some are saying 2009 is 1860 all over again, because we have the white population breaking along lines of ideology: Secular progressives who want more government control and complete egalitarianism; and a more conservative faction that consists of mainline, conservative moderates, to the far right fringe.
"The most vicious fighting could very well between these two groups, because they literally despise each other every bit as much as the various races hate each other, but any contest between them would result in the total elimination of the radical left, because, while they're more vocal, they're far, far less in numbers........and there will be many, many converts."
If the radical left is out numbered, who were all those people voting for Obama? Moderates? I don't dispute what you said. As a white man living in rural NH, I don't see myself aligning with the radical secular left or the radical Christian right, but I'm no "moderate." Core convictions run right, left, and down the middle, like a lot of people around here. If I have to choose sides, I'll let someone else make that decision for me. Pity the fool who forces me to choose between what's good for the cause, and what's good for my family.
MrB
72 - Dave Nalle
MrB. You seem to attempt to be rational. But remember that you're on the same side here as Dolorsa in #68. That should give you at least a moment's pause.
Now, in my elitist and snobbish way, I've never said that there aren't real conspiracies. But there are several things to consider about them. First, most of them are small and short term and of limited scope and usually get discovered with messy consequences in a fairly short timeframe. Second, many of the supposed conspiracies aren't really conspiracies in that they aren't really secret or they aren't really the threat they are presented as.
This is where Alex Jones gets away with a lot. His usual technique is to pick an issue and present the facts and then peculiarly misinterpret the facts to make them seem more ominous than they really are. Or to present selected facts or evidence taken out of context. So he retains the ability to say that you didn't disprove his facts, even if you showed that his interpretation or the conclusions he drew from the facts are ridiculous.
But Jones HAS been disproven again and again. He just doesn't admit it when he is. Look into the story of the FEMA coffins for a good and unequivocal example.
One thing Jones is quite correct about is that we ought to be concerned about the abuse of the power of government. The problem is that he ruins that valid message by diluting it with all of the false alarms and bullshit which he disseminates.
Dave
73 - TimberWolf
Right now in this very moment if one tries to order survival food it often takes 12 weeks for delivery and most prices have doubled in the last year.
This suggests that a ton of people in America are more than concerned about supply stability or US stability.
Since the Obama election and somewhat before, gun sales are at record highs as is ammo as are applications for concealed carry.
At times trying to buy ammo by the 100 box is near impossible.
I have advocated owning gold and silver since 2000 in the physical form since my opinion since around 1999 was that our dollar was near the end of it's useful life. I invested my entire retirement funds in metals when I retired in 2002 and to date I'm not sorry.
I'm one of the crackpots that holds a multi-year supply of food that stores for years on end and yes I do have guns and lots of ammo as well as alternative heat etc.
My thought is that it is like fire insurance that you hope you never have to collect on, but still to go without is a bit unnerving. Relying on others or the government is not what I'm good at. Trust issues.
74 - MrB
"MrB. You seem to attempt to be rational. But remember that you're on the same side here as Dolorsa in #68. That should give you at least a moment's pause."
It might give me pause, if it was true, but, there you go again! How can anything I've said be construed as being on the "same side" as #68?
Dave, keep in mind, before you decide to judge someone's motives and write them off as delusional and lumping them all together simply because they disagree with you, or because of the limitations of the information they're working with, that challenging the status quo and asking questions is part of the learning process. Not everyone has the advantage (or disadvantage) of a graduate level education. But it doesn't mean everyone who doesn't is an idiot.
The last thing I want to do is defend Alex Jones. I don't care for Jones' combative, paranoid "style," but the fact is Jones, and others like him, provide an essential public service: An alternative source of information to the MSM, for which we all ought to be grateful, whether we agree with his conclusions or not. False alarms are annoying, and after a while we start to ignore them. But better well-intended false alarms (I give AJ the benefit of the doubt that he's sincere), than no alarms at all.
"Now, in my elitist and snobbish way, I've never said that there aren't real conspiracies. But there are several things to consider about them. First, most of them are small and short term and of limited scope and usually get discovered with messy consequences in a fairly short timeframe. Second, many of the supposed conspiracies aren't really conspiracies in that they aren't really secret or they aren't really the threat they are presented as."
Just because somene doesn't personally perceive a threat AS a threat DOESN'T mean there IS no threat. (Hitler was "perceived" as a threat by some long before it became obvious to everyone else. If this was Germany in the 1930s, and AJ was ranting about concentration camps, sounds to me like you'd be writing him off as a "conspiracy nut.") As you say though, most conspiracies may be small and shortlived and relatively harmless; but by saying so you've conceded that others are, in fact, big and long-term and relatively dangerous. I'd suggest it's the BIG, LONG-TERM conspiracies that most of us are concerned about.
Since I'm beginning to appreciate your point of view, would you be so kind as to name one, big, long-term conspiracy theory that in your learned opinion DOES have merit?
MrB
75 - Robert
Mr. B said: "If the radical left is out numbered, who were all those people voting for Obama? Moderates?"
Yes, a good percentasge of them are.
Too, Mr. B, you have to realize that many people left of center right now are unaware of the true situation, but will come back to the center or the right in huge numbers when the volatility of war is thrust upon them and they witness large groups of whites killed by non-whites.
The dangers of diversiuty will be blaringly apparent to them. Many on the near left today embrace PC principles, because they're ignorant of just what it really means.