Florida university declares war on academic freedom. How can the nation survive the loss of liberty to fear and timidity?
The expatriate is back in town, in Miami, in Florida, in the great, free bastion of liberty, my United States. What do I find when I flick on the no-longer-flickering eye of the TV? A young man, a muchacho, a student with a hint of serious in his demeanor approaching the podium at the old but un-respected University of Florida. He insists on questioning Senator John Kerry after the politician had given his views and opened the floor for questions.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - bliffle
"If you had your way, ... the kid would have been put in front of a firing squad."
After all, there IS a precedent for it: Kent State.
27 - Clavos
Just watched the YouTube video. Very well done for an impromptu, accidental filming job.
Sure looks like a set-up to me.
The kid must be a serious drama student; he's certainly got the histrionics down pat.
"Don't tase me, Bro!!"
The T-shirts will be on ebay by midnight.
28 - Clavos
Only in Florida....
29 - handyguy
It may be easier for someone who has never been 'tased' to make a flippant joke out of it. No, I haven't been either, but the screams in this video, like in the UCLA one last year, are just about impossible for me to listen to. The screams in both cases sound all too real.
30 - Maurice
For those of you crying big alligator tears for Meyers please consider this:
What if he had simply turned around and walked away with the first police gal that walked up to him? What would have happened then?
31 - Clavos
I actually HAVE been tased.
I asked for it; was visiting a friend at his work, he's a top officer with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) the state equivalent of the FBI, and he invited me to see a demo. They called for volunteers, and not having learned to not volunteer while in the Army, I did.
It hurts. It hurts like hell. But none of the cops who volunteered for the demo, nor I, screamed like that; I grunted and even moaned a couple of times; but it passes relatively quickly, and if you're in reasonably good health, you're none the worse for the wear. It's main effect (and its effectiveness) is you lose the ability to stand or move voluntarily for a few seconds (there's plenty of INvoluntary movement). Depending on the type of taser used, it lasts from a few seconds to up to 30 seconds, with no after effects.
It's a whole lot more humane than being hit over the head with an old fashioned baton or truncheon.
It was precisely his screams which led me to make the histrionics remark; the whole thing smacks of a deliberate attempt to engineer a media incident (on the part of the student, not the media).
32 - Clavos
Maurice #31:
Bingo. I believe he was trying to create an incident.
33 - QriusAgain
If his intent was to create an incident, the police sure let themselves get suckered into contributing to it. Do they have such poor training and limited skills that the only way they know how to deal with any incident is with a show of superior force?
Then again, that sure seems like the American way lately.
34 - Baritone
I haven't read all of the above comments, but I find myself to a degree on both sides of the issue.
My son is a UF grad student. Given that UF is a huge state supported school (right at 50000 students,) and one that has emphasized sports (rather successfully, it would seem,) it is no wonder that it has a less than great reputation in the academic community. However, that is not to say that academics are lost there. It is largely up to individual students how they choose to conduct themselves, and what is most important to them during their tenure on any campus. UF has many superior academic programs, and a number of highly regarded alums in many professional fields of endeavor.
My son has a friend, a doctoral student at Harvard. This friend notes that Harvard has its share of wild parties. If I'm not mistaken, Harvard enjoys some academic credibility.
According to my son, Andrew Meyer is a journalism student and so called "performance artist" who has a reputation on campus for staging a variety of "events" which have sometimes brought on responses by campus police. I do not at this writing know the nature or extent of any of these "events." Meyer's having "charged the podium" and his refusal to relinguish it were likely cause for his removal.
The members of the campus police who "removed" Meyer did so with no particular skill. Had they performed properly, they should have been able to escort him out of the building without serious incident, and without resorting to the use of tasers. Howard's characterization of those officers is, however, unfair and odious.
That Meyer has a history of staging public "events," it does seem plausible that he made a special effort to scream and feign more of a fight when the cameras were on him. I would say that Dave's noting that Kerry, the school and most of the students in attendance were and are of a more or less "left" persuasion also lends credence to the notion that Meyer staged his performance with no particular connection to the politics of the event. Should the tasers have been used? I'd say no. However, I would agree that he likely came off in better shape than, as Clavos reminds us, if he had been whacked repeatedly with a night stick.
As to what responsibility Kerry had, I'd say not much. He was a guest of the university. Any entourage he may have had with him were charged only with the protection of Sen. Kerry. It would have been inappropriate of them to intervene.
It may well be that the UF police need further training in the handling of such incidents, but I find Howard's negative blanket statements regarding the school as unwarranted.
I also find most of Howard's final questions specious at best. That being said, I do believe that we have allowed the loss of many of our basic freedoms in the name of national security which has given license to many of our constabulary at all levels to essentially "shoot first, and ask questions later."
Whether the incident at UF is a measure of that loss is another question.
Baritone
35 - Michael Valdes
The reason our forefathers got together was to give this country freedom. Freedom of Speech and so on. It is sad that all we are doing is becoming what we try so deseperately to get rid of. It feels like our law enforcement are the Nazi's and George Bush is Hitler. I love my country, don't get me wrong, but we are the ones destroying it by putting these kind of people in office. It all falls back on voting? Aren't we glad that Kerry didn't get in office. He is quick to turn his head whenever a U.S. Citizen is in trouble. Would he have done the same thing if he where president whenever a U.S. crisis would arise? Pathetic. Last election was between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dummer. Its a shame to see what our country is turning into. All I have to say is history repeats itself. We are just speeding up the process. It all began with the Patriot Act, no , no, I take that back, it all began with Bush. I wonder if I'll get arrested for commenting on this?
36 - Clavos
Baritone #39:
Excellent, impartial analysis.
Props to you, sir.
37 - Jonathan Scanlan
Umm, sorry if this seems naive, but shouldn't the controversy be about the question and not about the agression?
It is my view that censorship is generally only used when the oppressors point of view is indefensible. So in my mind, the important question is what was the question that was so provocative?
38 - RJ
This was by far the lamest article I've read about this incident, and I've read quite a few. Congrats.
39 - RJ
"The reality is that the student was given a lawful order by a university official which he failed to comply with. After being given several more opportunities to leave he decided to resist efforts of law enforcement to escort him out. He then refused to submit to handcuffing. The bottom line, which is supported by case law, is that you do not have the right to resist an arrest. If you do not agree with the actions of a police officer then there is recourse in the courts. The appropriate action is not to create a public disturbance and resist arrest."
Thank you, Ron.
40 - RJ
Farid,
Your German airport cops are an example of ineptitude and weakness. They allowed a crazed (and possibly dangerous) foreign man to essentially commandeer an airport line for nearly an hour before they, tepidly, responded.
If that's your example of how "humane" police act, fine, that's your opinion. But your "humane" police allowed hundreds of innocent people's lives to be disrupted by a madman, simply for fear of being accused of "brutality" by leftists.
That's not an example of "freedom" and "liberty" at work in a civilized country; instead, it's an example of how loud-mouthed crazies are allowed to impede upon the freedom of law-abiding citizens in a weak country.
41 - RJ
"As Chris Matthews pointed out last night, are we at the point where we taser people just for being obnoxious?"
Chris Matthews is an idiot. This clown was tasered not for "being obnoxious" but for attempting to incite a riot and resisting arrest. Tasers are used in such situations because the alternative (physically restraining a resisting offender) is MORE likely to result in serious injury to both the offender AND the officers.
42 - RJ
"If you had your way, [Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor], the kid would have been put in front of a firing squad."
Weren't you the one calling for firing squads for conservatives just a few days ago, moonbat?
43 - RJ
"Two cops have been suspended without pay pending investigation -- given a paid vacation."
Huh? With pay or without pay? Paid vacation or unpaid vacation? Get your facts straight, Ivy Leaguer...
"The personal part is that I am in the US for medical treatment"
So, I guess the socialist country you came from cannot provide quality medical treatment in a timely manner? What a surprise...
44 - RJ
"I left the US 15 years ago. And I will never move back there."
Well, that's certainly good news.
So when you givin' up the ol' citizenship?
45 - RJ
"This kid isn't some patriot standing up to oppressive rules of society or government. He was a jackass who refused to listen to security, and got what he had coming to him."
Thank you, Otis.
46 - RJ
"is it really necessary to taser someone after you have already handcuffed them and got them to the ground?"
He wasn't handcuffed at that point, because he was resisting arrest. Which is why he got tasered.
47 - RJ
"Just watched the YouTube video. Very well done for an impromptu, accidental filming job."
Heh. Well, he DID have a friend film it all for him... ;-)
Oh, and the police report indicates that this clown was quiet and subdued WHEN NO CAMERAS WERE AROUND, and even told the officers that "you did nothing wrong, you were just doing your job."
This little leftist drama queen was also caught on video asking "Are you going to kill me?" and "Please tell people I know that I'm being arrested, I don't want to be disappeared!" and other such crazy nonsense.
Face it: This was a planned event by some loony leftist college kid who wanted to make a name for himself by creating a scene, and all you lefties who are making a big deal out of this are dupes.
48 - RJ
"the screams in this video, like in the UCLA one last year, are just about impossible for me to listen to. The screams in both cases sound all too real."
That's because you're a dupe.
Tasering is meant to be unpleasant, but if you ever watch COPS, most people who are tasered simply groan, and then stop resisting and submit. (Which is the entire point of deploying a Taser...)
The developers of the Taser apparently didn't have drama queens and camera phones in mind...
49 - Baritone
As regards Michaels' comments above, I still don't see just how it would have been appropriate for Sen. Kerry or any of his people to become involved unless they had perceived some kind of threat to the Senator. I certainly don't believe that this event serves as any kind of an indication as to how Kerry would have carried out his responsibilities as president.
I also imagine that had Mr. Meyer chosen to perform his antics during a visit by our sitting president, the Bushees would have pre-empted the campus police, bound and gagged him, and had him "renditioned" to Egypt, Bulgaria or some such place before the sun rose the next morning. Frankly, I would prefer the taser.
My son says that this whole thing has created quite a campus buzz, but taken in some perspective, it really wasn't that big a deal. It just resulted in some "Rodney Kingesque" video.
My brother in-law has been escorted out of a number of city council meetings of the small community in which he lives in recent years, and has come close to being arrested on more than one occasion. He is now the front runner in the town's upcoming mayoral race. Go figure. Perhaps Mr. Meyer dreams of turning his "15 minutes" into long lasting fame and fortune.
I would say that Howard's question/comment regarding just how much Meyer will get from the school via law suits sadly may well come to fruition. There are probably litigators lined up at Meyer's door as I write.
B-tone
50 - RJ
Fine comment, Baritone.
And btw, UF actually has a fine reputation in academics. Pharmacology, Business, Psychology, etc. The author of this post simply doesn't have a clue about the University of Florida, police officers, or much else, apparently...
51 - Baritone
As to whether Meyer is a "lefty," that is up for grabs. Personally, my take on it is that this wasn't done for any particular political reason. Meyer just wanted the TV time.
He got it.
B-tone
52 - Paul Jones
"This man Meyer has not been schooled in the fundamentals of decorum. He obviously wanted to attract attention but hasn't a clue how one should conduct oneself at such events. At least he wasn't clubbed, which he should have been."
Because violating decorum is a crime? What country are you from?
53 - Farid H.
RJ, actually, I felt scared too when that crazy started his rioting. But it quickly became apparent to everyone around that he was not dangerous. Yes, angry and weird, but not violent. And even if he were planning to draw a weapon, set off a bomb or whatever (who knows?), there were 7 other police officers staying closely by, everyone ready to intervene (they didn't assume a threatening stance though like drawing their weapons, but their holsters were not clipped shut either, a clear and universal warning signal). He wouldn't have had a chance in hell to endanger us passengers.
Actually, this is typical training for german police (esp. here in northrhine westfalia): their main job is to protect, of course, using appropriate force if necessary like every other police in the world, but they also learn to deescalate a situation as soon as it is under control. It's integral part of their basic training and refresher courses. They obviously felt secure and that there was no need to act differently than they did.
Was it irresponsible or clever police tactics in this special case? We'll never know. Perhaps we were just lucky nothing bad happened? Maybe. But it's definitly a reason why police is so well regarded here. And since we had just one killed policeman in over 10 years (and that was during a bank robbery followed by a chase), their tactics seem to be quite effective. Of course, it's a different environment than in the States, that's for sure. It would be suicidal for the cops there and innocent bystanders too, to act the same way when one can routinely assume that people are potentially armed and extremely dangerous.
Yet, to return to this FU incident: had the campus police a reason to assume that this prankster was potentially so dangerous as to justify the use of a taser? Or are those weapons used so casually as if they were just another enforcement instrument (rather than a measure of self-defense and last recourse)?
54 - Jesse
I am a webmaster and see clear signs that the kid's website has been taken under control by an outside interest. In the cached version of his site, he writes about gators football and cars which run on water. The current site cites foxnews and nbc - unlikely sources for an anti-establishment guy.
You can compare the current site to a cache of the site here:
google
site:www.theandrewmeyer.com
55 - Simple Lesson
Poor Little Andy,
Didn't your mother teach you not to play with fire? You got burned!
56 - Clavos
Jesus, people, wake up!
Even the newspapers are saying it was a STUNT!
By a freakin' college kid!
Can you say "Animal House?"
57 - Baritone
Another thought.
It would seem that Howard looks upon the UF incident as some kind of watershed regarding the rise of a police state. As I noted above I harbour some of the same fears, but I don't look upon Meyer's tasering as symptomatic. As noted here by many, he could have been badly beaten or killed under other circumstances and/or in another place, another time.
We should, I think, be watchful. We aren't likely to forget this affair for some time. We will collectively store it in the cluttered area at the back of our brains. Should other incidents occur which appear to escalate police brutality, we can, I'm sure, conjure this incident up and make proper comparisons.
But, frankly, I think Meyer got just what he intended - himself in the limelight and the University of Florida in the hot seat.
B-tone
58 - Cindy D
Farid,
I guess it's matter of different mentality that the police in the US are acting so much more brutally and recklessly. Maybe because they're used to people being armed and therefore potentially dangerous?
These were "campus police." It is highly unlikely that they have ever had to deal with anyone being armed. It is quite likely that they don't get to use the status of their authority in ways that make them feel like "real police."
Even when you are talking about state police or local police, you find those attracted to the job because of some thirst for power over others. When you are talking about this flavor of police officer, overreaction is common and it seems any opportunity to vent this power over others. This was so long before 9-11.
While training acts like a leash for the worst of them, you don't have to be very educated, or very ethically developed to become a cop.
Maybe they watch too many movies.
The best of them don't seem to indulge in this.
(Apologies to those police officers who are above this.)
59 - Baritone
I wouldn't put "campus police" down the ladder too far. Campus police at larger universities oversee a student population that is larger than probably well over 90% of all the country's municipalities.
Dealing with students in potentially violent situations can be a delicate affair - moreso than similar situations confronted by the average "beat cop."
Violence pops up everywhere. Let us not forget Virginia Tech. We can go back at least as far as Charles Whitman's rampage on the University of Texas campus.
The climate on the average campus is a good deal more tense than in days past. I remember my army days at Ft. Hood, Texas back in the mid-1960s. Some of my fellow draftees and I shared half of a duplex in the town of Belton, home of the tiny Mary Hardin Baylor college (not Baylor University.) At that time MHB was for women only. They had, I believe one campus cop. Generally, his biggest job was keeping us randy GIs away from their pure Baptist coeds. I don't think he was altogether successful in that effort.
Times have definitely changed.
B-tone
60 - moonraven
[Edited]
I remember Kent State--when the National Guard fuckheads fired on the students demonstrating against Nixon's sending US millitary troops into Cambodia. I was teaching and heading an AFT union at a large state university in the midwest in that 1970 spring.
Our university was just one of many that struck in support of Kent State and had active street protests. The guard beat up some of our students as well--before arresting them. I spent several nights bailing kids out of the local jail in DeKalb, IL.
What is indicative of the change in times and the complete lack of spine and sensibility is the concommitant lack of universities striking in protest of this latest violence and attack on free speech.
(I remember fondly the days in 1964 of the Strike for Free Speech on the UC Berekely campus, too.)
And in respect to Cambodia, yesterday Brother Number Two, Nuon Chea, was accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity in a special UN commission for the death of 1.7 million persons.
Looks like Bush the Lesser IQ is fast closing in on that total: 1.2 million Iraquis and counting....
Congratulations, pinheads, for your excellent decision to keep that criminal in office! Maybe you can go on trial with him.
61 - moonraven
From The Progressive:
"The ACLU of Florida objects to Meyer’s treatment.
“People have a reasonable expectation to ask questions in a public setting-even if they are aggressive and some disagree with their position-that is free speech plain and simple,” said Howard Simon, the ACLU of Florida’s executive director. “Similarly, Kerry had a reasonable expectation to be able to answer those questions. Neither of them was able to exercise their free speech rights due to the police action.”
Senator Kerry released a statement that said: “I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody. I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured. I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.”
Amnesty International USA said it was “deeply disturbed” by the use of the taser.
“Based on the available video footage, it is virtually inconceivable that these officers could have perceived this young man as a true threat once he was on the ground,” said Larry Cox, executive director for Amnesty International USA. “For several years there have been numerous instances of officers misusing TASERs, but shocking someone who was seemingly little more than a nuisance? That belongs in the Ripley’s of poor policing.”
Amnesty International USA added: “The use of a TASER against someone who is not violent and poses no threat to himself or others constitutes cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment.” (See “The Trouble with Tasers,” by Anne-Marie Cusac, in the April 2005 issue of The Progressive, for more examples.)"
62 - Baritone
Moon,
I think you will find that more than a few of us "assholes" did NOT vote for Bush. In fact, 49% of all presidetnial votes in 2004 were not cast for GW. The winning margin for Bush was around 3% over Kerry.(Nader managed to garner around 1% of the vote.) The final tally hardly amounted to a mandate, although Bush took it as such. Had the Dems run someone who was perhaps a bit more animated than a bridge piling, they might have kicked Bushes' ass. But alas, no.
By the way Moon, you misspelled a word.
B-tone
63 - moonraven
So did you [Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor].
And you probably are not even typing in the dark!
64 - Baritone
I figured you'd pick that one up. Good job!
Of course, this must be a crushing blow to your ego in consideration of the high standards you set for yourself, or at least that you set for others.
B-tone
65 - Clavos
The kid deliberately set himself up to be manhandled and tasered by the cops so he could claim his fifteen minutes of fame.
And he got exactly what he wanted to get; he even had a co-conspirator at the ready with a camera.
Yammering about free speech in this incident is either a straw man or a symptom of terminal naiveté.
66 - Christopher Rose
PsychoVi-agraMan strikes again!
You're harshing again, young Clavos; freedom issues are worth considering in this issue regardless of the kid's motives...
Personally, I think both that the kid was being provocative and that the police massively over-reacted. Mind you, the US police have been incredibly bossy and controlling with the citizenry for at least as long as they have been useless in dealing with serious criminals and their crimes. Funny that, don't you think?
67 - moonraven
I really don't give a shit about my typos.
I am practically perfect in everyway--a la Mary Poppins.
And my opinion of myself is the only one that matters.
68 - Les Slater
Why would one employ rabid dogs to be part of security in an academic environment? I have nothing but contempt for these ‘police’ pigs and whoever hired them.
69 - moonraven
The administration is just a lackey to Ole Jeb.
70 - Thomas
I think that this article i incredibly biased and is an attack on the police. I agree that they went to far but '"What fun!" shows in his beady eyes.' is just a personal attack and is highly inappropriate
I have lost all respect for you and will never read any article published by you again.
However i do not think what the police did was right.
71 - Ted
Democrat or Republican, that 50,000 volts of torture feel the same.
Remember that when you say or think he got what he deserved for acting up.
Should they have instead pulled a Glock and shot him dead? No.
That means they should not have tasered him either.
When did tasers become about retribution or even compliance?
Tasers are torture weapons and nothing more.
72 - Cindy D
How do you catch an autistic boy who is running in traffic?
With a taser, of course. Shoot first ask questions later.
73 - Baritone
The very existence of tasers and other such weaponry provides rather sad testimony against our "civilized" society. Looking beyond, it gets even sadder - to tragic proportions - when one considers the extent to which we go in developing new and more efficient means to kill each other. I know this is a tired old argument, but certainly not one that can be laid to rest unless we collectively choose to resign ourselves to self-destruction. As new, better and more varied weapons are developed, it becomes apparent that we don't even need nukes to get the job done. It just might take a little longer.
I find the reverence in which people hold lethal weaponry as a kind of awful sickness. Americans head the list of populations who "love" their guns. They pamper them, stroke them, kiss them, get off on them (cleaning it up immediately, I'm sure, quickly applying a fresh coat of gun oil.)
I overheard a fellow at Mickey Ds yesterday commenting on the UF incident saying that the problem with tasers is they don't usually kill anybody. That would of course be disappointing. Why bother? Where's the fun? In this fellow's rather loudly voiced opinion there is nothing greater than taking a bead on someone, squeezing off a round and watching them drop. Man, that would be a rush, wouldn't it? After all, it's the rush that counts. Further, this fellow's rapt audience - all of advanced years - quietly nodded in agreement and went on about the business of chowing down their various McMuffins.
B-tone
74 - Les Slater
B-tone,
I agree that what you witnessed at Mc'D is sickening. There certainly is a that sort of thing in this thread. I read all of the replies so far.
As bad as I think the cops are in this situation, you must consider who is hiring them. In this case it is the administration of an institution of higher learning.
The U of F administration did NOT fire these cops and clearly declare that this is to NEVER happen again. They KNOW what they are doing.
Les
75 - Clavos
"The U of F administration did NOT fire these cops and clearly declare that this is to NEVER happen again. They KNOW what they are doing."
You bet they do. They have a responsibility to both the taxpayers and the rest of the students to not allow disruption by a selfish publicity-seeking narcissistic asshole trying to promote himself.
Couching this incident in terms of rights is giving this little creep far too much legitimacy.
He dishonors the memories of real dissenters like Ghandhi and MLK.