"Breaking The Silence: Children's Stories" is a documentary airing on PBS that brings much-needed attention to the plight of abused mothers who are trying to protect their abused children from their abusive fathers. The American Judges Association has reported that "studies show that batterers have been able to convince authorities that the victim is unfit or undeserving of sole custody in approximately 70% of challenged cases."
Another fact: "Abusive fathers are far more likely than nonabusive parents to fight for child custody, not pay child support, and kidnap children." [White, Ann C., The Florida Bar Journal, Vol LXVIII, No. 9, citing Hansen, Marsali, and Michele Harway, Battering and Family Therapy 175 (1993); Grieg, Geoffrey L. and Rebecca Hegar, "Parents Whose Children Are Abducted by the Other Parent: Implications for Treatment," 19 American Journal of Family Therapy 215, 221 (1991); Zorza Joan, "Protection for Battered Women and Children," 27 Clearing House Rev. 1437 (1994).]
Fathers' rights activists have sent hundreds of angry letters, made hundreds of angry phone calls, and have written hundreds of angry e-mails to PBS in the hope that they would successfully have the documentary pulled, or that they would convince PBS to air their opposing views. As I reported in my previous Blogcritics article on this subject, fathers' rights activists points of view are "full of unsupported nonsense about women being as abusive as men, women frequently "alienating" men from their children, and women lying frequently to get restraining orders to use as leverage in court in abuse, divorce, and custody cases. PBS is not required to present every side of an issue, especially a side that has no reputable resources to back its point of view. The fathers' rights point of view already gets media coverage. Protective mothers who are seeing their abused children being given to their abusive fathers by the court don't get much media coverage, and this documentary provides them with much needed attention. PBS has given attention to these moms and children that they desperately need."
Fathers' rights activists are not happy about that at all.
I also also reported that "Breaking The Silence" outs fathers' rights custody tactics for the abusive behavior that it is, in particular the use of bogus syndromes like Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS). Despite not being recognized as a valid syndrome by the American Psychological Association, PAS, more generic forms of "alienation", and friendly parent provisions are used to by abusers and the courts to take abused children from the mothers who are protecting them, and giving them to their abusive fathers. Professionals who make their living from these kinds of cases don't want this documentary to air, because airing the truth about these ugly contested custody cases will put a big hole in their pockets.
Some would like to believe that these most men in fathers' rights groups are not angry, vindictive bullies. Posts on Internet mailing lists and Usenet responding to the documentary have proven otherwise.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Teri In Cali
Trish,
How do you expect anyone to react when they are not given the same resources or consideration as someone of the other gender, when they and/or their children are in danger? We're talking about people who have suffered devastating domestic situations.
You seem to have so much sympathy or empathy for women victims and their children, yet I never see you offer the same to fathers and their children. You seem to be of the opinion, like so many "on your side" that it's all or nothing, that we must be at war.
Both genders batter. Parents of both genders want to protect their battered children from their abuser. Parents of both genders have suffered at the hands of the current family law system.
You and I both want the same thing, basically. We both want children to be safe, happy and emotionally healthy, right?
We both agree that the law that just passed in California (SB1088) is an example of the kind of reform needed nationwide, right?
You are not describing the fathers and family rights movement accurately. You are pointing out instances where fathers in pain with no recourse have lashed out. I can go to several places online and find mothers saying things even worse than that. What's the point?
Families are suffering. Families, Trish. Not just battered moms. Families.
Teri
Feminist4Fathers (and mothers)
http://feminist4fathers.blogspot.com/
2 - gypsyman
I'm goddamned tired of whinny privaleged men bitching about them being denied their rights. Holly crap, which right do they want, the one to beat the shit out of their wife whenever they want, the right to rape their daughters and sons if they feel the need?
I know of too many battered women who have lost custody of their children becuase they have shown up in court brusied, scared and confused, while smug bastards in suits with money have stolen children who they don't care about.
I was raped by my loving father for eight damn years and he had the nerve to try and fight my mom for child support when he dumped her for another woman...These men who compalin about women or the aplogist women who stand up for them, should look at family law statistics before start whinning about female abusers.
They do exist and should be dealt with in the same manner as any abuser, but unfortunately facts don't lie and their are more men than women beating up partners these days and abusing children.
Why should someone who abuses anyone have custodial rights? Do we give rapists the right to visit their victims after they've served their time? Do we allow people charged with criminal and bodily assuault to go back and take responsibility for people they beaten to a pulp?
Neither men nor women should thing that just because they were involved with the birthing of a child that automatically entitles them to right of ownership no matter what their behaviour is like. If we are serious in wanting to protect the children in our society we need to rid ourselves of the myth that "family" is sacred.
Some of the worst crimes against children occur within the family, and too many people hide behind their so called rights as a parent. This has got to stop.
A parent's right is to protect, nurture and raise a child as best they can. Anyone who breaks that covenant of protection should be stripped of the privalege of being around children.
Ask yourself if these guy had really wanted their children in the first place would they have acted in such a way as to cause their wives to want to have nothing to do with them?
3 - a witness
What a pity. Fathers are the abused from the law and the land. I saw a father hang himself from his neck because he gave up his fight for custody. No one wanted to hear him. His wife was a child abuser, convicted for numerous felony and misdomeanor crimes, some against children. Her current arrests were thrown out despite police and civilian testamony because the prosocution was prosecuting him and had a 'conflict'. Her affair with her attorney didn't bat eyelashes. So, she was able to keep the kids. He even went to jail for three years because he was keeping his children away from this abuser, drug user, alcoholic wife. The kids were beaten, burnt with cigarettes, locked away by the wife. If a man had done this, he would have been locked up for life. She did this and he commited suicide by hanging. No one listened to him. No one cared about the man, only the poor innocent woman.
4 - Mona Lena
Trish,
There are many mothers who support father’s rights movements. I am one of these women. I am also a foreigner. As well am I a mother who never took her ex husband back to court after enjoying physical custody of our children for almost three years. In the 10 years my Ex husband had full custody, never once did I think of kidnapping my children even though the pain was worse then losing my father in the same year.
Most women who commit kidnappings also claim to have been beaten and abused. I believe that not even 10 percent of these claims are true including the ones which supposedly have been verified in court. It is a trend well abused!
My Ex husband never abused me nor did he ever threaten me in any way shape or form, more so it was the girl friend >> a woman who pushed to win and protect her own financial goals as well did she inflict psychological damage upon my children, me and my ex husband as well all family’s involved. Therefore this woman should be prosecuted for it.
I need men to protect my gender and my children, men fought in wars for not only their countries, they protect their families by doing so. They are born with instincts unlike woman.
I fell into an abusive relationship later on.I had endured physical restrain like most children at home in order to bring rules and respect into a family, most of it I received from my mother.
My abuser was a PAS victim himself. A child who was ignored by a young mother ( 16 ) who found herself to have a second child with 17 got a divorce and cut the father out of their lives. She then married a second time when she was 19 leaving two young boys to be raised mainly by themselves and an alcoholic stepfather, this mother ignored her responsibility!
Maybe it is time to define domestic violence into a broader spectrum. We have a silent brutality within all of our family’s, this silent domestic violence we may call psychological abuse which needs to be recognized
Also, any woman who has been sexually abused by her father needs to also learn to point fingers at the mother! It is the mother’s responsibility as the other parent to protect her abused child, if she does not; she as well needs to be punished for the same crime which was committed to her child. If she has no access to the child like so many fathers don’t have access to theirs baby’s then maybe you need to help change laws to stop the myths of abuse, it all can backfire into your own families.
The mother/female needs to learn to take the same amount of responsibility in this ongoing blame game. If woman/feminists want same rights as the male gender
They are to receive the same punishments regardless of their gender.
Mona Lena USA
5 - Sad Daddy
When is all this gender based biased bullshit gonna stop, and people focus on the real issue.... The children, and what is best for them.
All this mother father shit is just a side tracked issue, and it is quite an effective one at that, I mean how much positive has been done through the attacks on PBS? The point is a letter is a letter, however the massive amounts of energy put forth in attacking PBS, Sponsors, and even the groups who support such nonsense, is energy that could better be used directed to your legislators getting a bill introduced and passed.
For 30 plus years the GOVERNMENT has stacked the deck against PARENTS and CHILDREN. THE GOVERNMENT HAS INSTITUTED GENDER BASED DESCRIMINATION IN THE PURSUIT OF FEDERAL FUNDING, and the reason progress can not and will not be made is simply issues just like this one.
Do you really think it is a coincidence that P.A.S is finally starting to take on a face in the MSM? If so I got a bridge to sell each and every one of you, on both sides of this issue.
In the last 2 years I have seen more progress made toward what is legitimately best for Children and the families that love them, by the actions of only a small handful of people than the entire movement has made in 30 years.
You will never acheive change by the use of rage & attitude when your officials refuse to meet with you because you are known or defined as a loose cannon or simply put a hot head.
Get real, Get focused, voice your opinion and move on, contrary to belief this is not the kind of attention that you want, however much like a very famous man once said...." I Have a Dream".
I mean realistically the numbers are there and they should have already been posted upon this page, considering that in excess of 60% of all child abuse is perpatrated by the Custodial Mother, and to further that when the children are granted to the Mother in 80% plus of all custody cases, how is it that Fathers are the villain in P.A.S? I fail to see the recent up to date correlation with the opinions expressed by the original author of this, and to go even beyond that I suggest that person do some real research using todays actual statistics as provided by the Federal Government, to make the argument even close to credible. I mean even my 5th and 8th Grade kids have more accurate research for their topics related to issues very similar to this, and the best part is it is their mother who helped them pick their topics, and find some of the best research material to use.
Much like the heavily funded Gender wars in courts across America, P.A.S is simply and sadly being used now to further promote those gender wars because the status quo is being challenged with credible evidence, and undisputable truth.
The SAD REALITY is while is sit here typing this another hundred kids lose one or both parents to an over zealous state government that only cares about the money it can extort as a result of having posession of the child in one way or another....
6 - Lary Holland
The comment posted by gypsyman and also of the author do not comply with the statistics that are actually proven by the National Incidence of Child Abuse and Neglect states in pertinent part that mothers are more likely to sexually abuse birth children while non-sexual type abuse was distributed somewhat evenly when only the birth parents were taken into consideration. I have attached the URL and a couple of excerpts from the Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect.
from: link
instances re: sexual abuse:
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Children were somewhat more likely to be maltreated by female perpetrators than by males: 65 percent of the maltreated children had been maltreated by a female, whereas 54 percent had been maltreated by a male. Of children who were maltreated by their birth parents, the majority (75%) were maltreated by their mothers and a sizable minority (46%) were maltreated by their fathers (some children were maltreated by both parents). In contrast, children who were maltreated by other parents or parent-substitutes, or by other persons, were more likely to have been maltreated by a male than by a female (80 to 85% were maltreated by males; 14 to 41% by females).
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instances re: among all abused children:
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Among all abused children, those abused by their birth parents were about equally likely to have been abused by mothers as by fathers (50% and 58%, respectively), but those abused by other parents, parent-substitutes, or other, nonparental perpetrators were much more likely to be abused by males (80 to 90% by males versus 14 to 15% by females). This general pattern held for emotional abuse, but was slightly different in the area of physical abuse. Children who had been physically abused by their birth parents were more likely to have suffered at the hands of their mothers than their fathers (60% versus 48%), while those who had been physically abused by other parents or parent- substitutes were much more likely to have been abused by their fathers or father-substitutes (90% by their fathers versus 19% by their mothers). For sexual abuse, the child's relationship to the perpetrator made very little difference, since males clearly predominated as perpetrators, whatever their relationship to the child. Moreover, the severity of the injury or impairment that the child experienced as a result of maltreatment did not appear to bear any relationship to the sex of the perpetrator.
---------------------------------------
The airing of "Breaking the Silence" is not a true documentary and it clearly demonstrates a more ferocious attempt to air information that slants public views and an attempt to gain more funding through discrimatory laws like VAWA.
There is no doubt that there are truly abusive relationships out there in both directions, but the reality of it is, it's more likely the result of bad decision making skills and unhealthy interdependence.
There should be a study of how many daughters grew up without fathers around so they don't know how to engage in a healthy relationship (bonding to any man that pays them attention) and the same for boys growing up with "moms" who probably themselves had been exposed to multitudes of mom's poor relationships. What's the problem? I bet it has more to do with the parents of the last two generations bearing the fruits of non-committment and "free love." Lets get real and attempt to solve the problem that really is the social injustice... parental irresponsibility and teach healthy interdependence.
Lets stop with the abuse excuse of the extreme feminist position and focus on the next generation...our children.. and help them realize that the best parent is both parents and install programs for the women making bad decisions with relationships as well as men before our next generation grows up even more dysfunctional than the last.
Lary Holland
http://www.laryholland.org
7 - diana hartman
the pbs program addresses the way children are affected by domestic violence...it isn't nor does it have to be about abused spouses, men or women, in order to present a credible perspective of domestic violence...it presents the largest slice of the domestic violence pie: children...the majority of those children were abused by fathers as were their mothers...that the program includes abused mothers of the abused children does not detract from the reality of abused fathers or abusive mothers...it merely allows for the fact that the majority of abused children are parented by abused mothers and abusive fathers...those who would argue that the makers of this program should have presented a more balanced picture should first look at how unbalanced the picture is: there are significantly more children than adults affected by domestic violence, and the majority of adult victims of domestic violence are women...
if someone wants to make a documentary about abusive women and the men they abuse, they are welcome to do so...they will have a hell of time coming up with a proportionately dire program...until then, the majority of the light will continue to shine on those who make up the majority of victims: children and their mothers...
argue all day long for abused fathers, the fact of the matter is that they are in the minority...what makes this particular aspect of domestic violence harrowing is that an abused father is even less likely to come forward on behalf of his children than would an abused mother...even as a victim, it is his choice to come forward or not...that beaten and bedraggled women have chosen to come forward on behalf of their children despite their peril and the risk involved in doing so doesn't bode well for the "victim" stance of any man who chooses to keep quiet...the possibility of public shame and humiliation be damned, you either care more about your children than you do yourself or you don't...among those of us who did choose the hard way out and know all too well how difficult it is, we still have only a limited amount of sympathy for those who continue to choose the mire...
frankly, i don't give a rat's ass what accusatory men who haven't been abused think of abused fathers and neither should abused fathers...if you're an abused father and your children are at risk, do what you have to do to get yourself and those children the hell out of there...call the police, keep track of the reports, file that paperwork, frame that protective order, take pictures, hide video and tape recorders, line up allegiances with friends and family, and tell, tell, tell...keeping it secret for your own protection does nothing but make it worse for your children -- and it doesn't protect you from losing anything you can't later retrieve...your children will grow up someday and they will likely confront you about what you did or, more importantly, what you didn't do about their mother abusing them and you...if you didn't do everything in your power to put their safety and welfare needs ahead of your ego then you will have lost something you can never regain: their allegiance, love, and respect...personally, i wouldn't want my nursing home picked out by the child i didn't protect...
those who assert that mothers are the majority child abusers define domestic violence without the inclusion of child sex abuse nor do they include those statistics wherein the abused is both mother and child...put it all together and fathers are the majority abusers...this is not to say abusive mothers should be let off the hook, it is to say that when asserting the realities of domestic violence, every facet of violence is to be included...there is no need to break it down unless you're trying to twist facts to favor an untrue assertion...abusive mothers are a reality as are their victims so there is no need to twist anything to prove it...using a separate reality, abusive fathers being the majority abusive parent, to minimize or strengthen any argument is counterproductive to the safety and welfare of the most important and majority consideration of domestic violence: children...
trish' comments did come across as incorrectly grouping all men into one abusive category and used isolated comments to further this assertion...nonetheless, the facts remain: men make up the majority of abusive spouses, more children than adults are the victims of that violence, children are victims of the efforts on the part of the abuser to keep the children in the violent situation, and they are victims of an abusive parent even when the abuser only abuses the other parent...
refuting trish' comments with yet more isolated comments and conditions serves only to shift the focus away from the most important part of the equation: more children suffer with domestic violence than anyone else...efforts by caregivers to get the children out of these situations are becoming increasingly thwarted by the abuser...the abuser is more often a man than a woman and the abused caregiver is more often a woman than a man...again, argue all day long for something or someone else, it will still detract from caring for the majority of victims of domestic violence: children...
contrasting a witness's post of one incident is gypsyman's personal experiences coupled with his knowledge of many
women having been further abused by the system's allegiance to the abuser's ability to appear and litigate sans personal injury to body, mind, and financial resources...
yes teri, it is about families, and both genders batter...the rest of the story is that families are no less families for the absence of an abusive father and both genders do not batter each other in equal numbers as one batters significantly more than the other...while i would not subscribe to trish' apparent all-or-nothing approach, i also cannot subscribe to the idea of approaching education and prevention from the angle that both genders fill the roles of abused/abuser equally when clearly they do not...
an abused man with little or no resources or recognition crying out against documentaries like the pbs program is reacting from the stance of a victim -- which he most certainly is if he is being abused by anyone, woman or not...it should surprise no one to find out he was also an abused child...further, his victimization started with the pain of domestic violence in his childhood having been obviously ignored else he wouldn't still consider himself a victim...
the goal of the pbs program is to insure the needs of these child victims, male and female, are no longer ignored even if one of the parents is a victim also and to insure the children's best interest is not thwarted especially by the abuser...
the majority of domestic court cases begin with a presentation of evidence that the father was abusive and in the majority of cases that abuse is later substantiated...that there are contests, appeals, and deliberately deceptive efforts made to overturn the outcomes of those cases doesn't negate the fact that the abuse took place...while the numerous rulings against abusive fathers make it easy for some to assume the courts are thus biased, it's no excuse for believing as much when the facts continue to prove this simply isn't true...
the pbs program presents the majority plight and points out the fallacies that currently exist that serve only to further victimize those who are already victims...those who would contest the realities of domestic violence (specifically who does what to whom) would do well to spend their next few days off in family court and/or volunteer in a shelter and/or an emergency room rather than jumping into the middle of the fray and opining from their limited point of view...
8 - diana hartman
larry, that's not what the american bar association says, or the international child abuse network when addressing statistics in america, or the national center for ptsd...
in fairness, and because your findings so seriously contradict mine, i'm going to look further into this to see if i can find anything else that coincides with the study you cited from the u.s. dept of health and human services...
9 - Chris
I don't why a bunch of knuckle-dragging men would so upset about a film that tries convince America that men are vicious and rage-filled, that they should be forever removed from thier childs lives forever. Never mind the fact that this film refuses to allow the truth to get in the way of it's message. However, I do believe that the father of those 3 boys, floating in that Bay next the the 'City of Liberal Enlightenment', might have some serious disagreements with the topic of this film, and the false premise it tries to support. I suppose even the lives of our might vulnerible children are acceptable fodder in the battle to socailize America. How many more children will die, before the left finally learns that they are wrong?
10 - Robert Brown
Dear Ms Wilson:
You should contact Teri in Cali. She has much unbiased information on this topic that you might benefit from studying.
We are all well aware that women and children are being battered and abused by men. It took many, many years for battered women to be taken seriously.
It is now proven by many studies that women can be/are as violent as men. The only difference is that women's abuse and violence towards children and men is excused by women's groups, the media and those with an agenda to demonize men.
This PBS show does absolutely nothing to help those women who are abusive. Do you know of any programs for female batterers? There are none. So, these abusive women are never held accountable and never receive the help they need and continue battering their spouses and children. Many boys battered by their mothers turn out to batter their spouses and children.
And as far as your quotes from father's rights sites, I could point you to many bitter, anti-male radical feminists sites on the web. The SCUM Manifesto is much quoted on various sites.
11 - kevin
Gee like your sources are reputable.Trish Wilson is a one-sided person just like i imagine the documentary is......
12 - Cal Law
you've got to be kidding!
I can't speak for the other posts (which don't seem far from the truth at all), but I can say that in my marriage I (the husband) was the "victim" of domestic violence (DV) on a few occasions. One time my wife threw a bottle of skin cream at me because I was teasing her. Another time she carved up my face with her fingernails because, when we were at the beach, I playfully carried her to the water and she did not want to get wet. Maybe it was my fault and she just overreacted. Needless to say, I didn't report her to the police. I learned my lesson though, and avoided provoking her in the future. [Note: I never hit or cheated on my wife]
I can also say from experience that when I worked in the family court (three years) I saw a significant number of men come in as victims of DV. Some had marginal injuries, others had knife wounds, black eyes, and one had a chunk of his hand bitten off. In a few instances, male clients told me that they tried to come in before, but the officers at the metal detector turned them away saying things like "come on, you're a guy, you don't need to come here," but they came back anyway. Overall, there were very few men and women coming in with serious injuries, most just meeting the legal definition of DV
Over time, I have learned that "definitions" can lead to unnecessary confusion and debate. I'm assuming that you, like me, think of DV in layman's terms (i.e., a partner got beat up bad one time, or a spouse has had repeated low impacts leading to Battered Spouse Syndrome). The legal definition is quite different however. The family court works with a very broad definition, which includes things like “emotional abuse”, “verbal abuse”, “economic abuse”, “paternity fraud”, “non-existent-but-perceived abuse”, “fear or anticipated abuse”, and the kicker: responding to a provocation or self-defense -if you are the stronger person (I think that is called “primary aggressor”).
For example, I helped a woman get a DV restraining order because her husband called her fat. In addition to being true, it was considered to be verbal abuse. I also helped a woman get a DV restraining order for her and her son because her boyfriend threw a deflated soccer ball at her when he came home and caught her talking with another man -she actually didn't want to get the order for their son, but she said that after reporting it, Child Protective Services (CPS) got involved and they told her if she didn't include their son, CPS would take their son away from. Another time, I helped a woman get a DV restraining order because she had a flat tire on her day of court, and, although she didn't see anything, she was convinced that her ex did it out of spite. "Fat", "deflated soccer ball", and "flat tire" don't meet my definition of DV, but it does count for court, and probably the people who generate statistics.
So one of the first questions I would like to know is what definition you are using?
On a separate issue "DV sexism, I have a cousin who got pissed-off at her husband, and punched him in the face, I don't know whether or not he deserved it, but I know he didn't report it. Oddly enough, his mother did report my cousin, but lucky for her, the police didn't do anything to my cousin. On the other hand, a few months after getting divorced, they had an argument in which the ex pushed my cousin as he was leaving (he was mad that she didn't want to let him see their son). About a half hour later my cousin wanted to teach him a lesson so she called the police. He was arrested about an hour after that. Then, all of a sudden, she was sorry because she didn't expect the police officers to take it so far. I have seen and heard of many more situations where this pattern is repeated.
Again I can't speak for others, but from my own experience, and this is just a sample, I have seen that:
1) women can be just as aggressive as men,
2) in order to avoid unnecessary disagreement, it is important that both parties to the discussion are using the same definition,
3) although the written DV laws don’t support sexism, in practice it is not at all uncommon, and
4) it would be naive or insincere to suggest that a double-standard for men and women does not exist.
So, if this PBS show is in any way trying to skew DV as a “only men commit DV” show, I’d liken it to Dan Rather’s career-ending report on Bush, and say that the Rush Limough’s of the world are accurate when the speak of a biased reporting media.
By the way, I did read about 70 pages of "Why Does He Do That", besides being boring; it seemed to cater to a subjective audience driven by emotion. I wouldn't recommend the book unless you want cover your own shortcomings by blaming someone else. It was a gift from a gorgeous attorney I was dating, who couldn’t understand why I wouldn't commit to being her boyfriend until she grew-up, and reciprocated my fidelity. As a footnote, after I stopped seeing her, she met some guy, who she married, but continued to attempt to persuade me to come over for a bootie-call when he was away. Lousy book.
13 - NANCM
I'm in complete agreement that the entire "gender" war needs to stop and FAST.
WHO FREAKING CARES WHICH GENDER HAS "MORE" ABUSERS?????? In every single case there is a CHILD involved that is being emotionally and/or physically scarred for life from the situation!
I honestly don't see how all of these self proclaimed intelligent reporters and authors and whatnots can't see the forest through the trees and realize the the longer they focus on GENDER the more children will DIE!!!
Knock it off already!!!!!!!!!
The entire court system is a money churning cog-wheel that continues to suck money out of EVERYONE'S pockets (male AND female). One win to the "Fathers Rights" side just to piss of the Moms. Then the system will give a win to the Moms side just to piss off the Fathers Rights side again and keep them fired up.
WHEN WILL WE FINALLY BE ABLE TO JOIN FORCES???????????
If the Fathers Rights Movements don't think they are making an impact, think again. (And yes, in some ways I this is good). Less than a year ago I started an emotional support group for Mothers who have lost custody and in less than a year I've spoken with, e-mailed with, and posted on my boards with THOUSANDS of Mothers who have lost custody. NO DRUGS, NO ABUSE, just lost custody to the Father because he requested it. Most of the Fathers simply had more money, more power... WHATEVER.
But the problem is, these Fathers are NOT doing any better of a job than the MILLIONS of selfish, egotistical, and controlling Custodial MOMS who keep the children away from the Dads.
Why does it have to be an "all or nothing" mentality to the Custodial Parent?
When will divorced couples learn to co-parent?
When will divorced couples quit using the children as pawns?
There are so many more important issues that need to be addressed and resolved than "which gender abuses children more often".
I just wish the people who are in positions to write articles, produce television shows and get publicity for child custody issues would focus on issues that could MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Beverly Morris
President & Founder
NANCM, Inc.
www.nancm.com
(A NON gender-biased support group for Mothers AND Fathers who may need emotional support dealing with not having custody of their children). NANCM believes in SHARED PARENTING when (and only when) both parents are fit and loving.
14 - Teri In Cali
Thank you Nancy, for pointing out that children and parents of both genders suffer because of the inadequate adversarial family court system.
Teri
Feminist4Fathers (and mothers)
Shared Parenting Works
"86% polled favored the presumption of equal physical and legal child custody"
15 - NANCM
And thank YOU Teri for continuing your efforts for BOTH sides... which is what will ultimately help the children the most.
16 - Teri In Cali
"those who assert that mothers are the majority child abusers define domestic violence without the inclusion of child sex abuse nor do they include those statistics wherein the abused is both mother and child...put it all together and fathers are the majority abusers..."
Not true. When you look at child sexual abuse FATHERS are the LEAST LIKELY TO ABUSE. The most likely male to abuse sexually is Mommy's new boyfriend.
When you look at child physical abuse and neglect mothers are the offenders a little more often than fathers.
But that's not the point!
You want children protected. So do we.
You think presumptive equal custody will put children in harm's way. We believe it protects them.
You have painted us with your own brush because of your past experiences with your perpetrators. We are not those men. We don't support abusers in any form.
We support, or are, good, fit, responsible, loving parents and grandparents who have not received adequate services from the family court system, just like you.
Teri
Feminist4Fathers
http://feminist4fathers.blogspot.com/
17 - Teri In Cali
Thanks Bev. We'll show them how to work together. Someone has to do it. ( :
Teri
18 - dad4justice
I would like to state the fact my two daughters and my twin sons are all the victims of parental alienation syndrome. It is real and sad but in the end truth and love can only repair the damage to the children . Good Fathers need faith to overcome the insidious affects of PAS . The system must address PAS now before we lose a generation of vulnerable children.Ask my kids about PAS if you don't believe me . 4 the children - dad4justice
19 - Shark
Hopefully -- at some point -- the new epidemic, Meth Moms is going to wake up judges and legislators, and turn the tide in the inherent discrimination against men.
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BTW: re gender as determiner of a good parent:
There are no absolutes. Anecdotes can cover monster men and monster women pretty equally, I would guess.
(Of all the situations I've known personally, the WOMEN were the violent NUT CASES -- so go figure.)
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[as far as abuse dangers:
IMO: in general, men are physically stronger -- but women are generally wackier. Is that Nature's way of equalizing things?]
20 - Julia(member of NANCM)
I would like to say, first and foremost, I did not watch the special as I knew it would make me angry. The most important people in this whole issue: THE CHILDREN are being ignored.
When are we all going to act like the grown ups we say we are and look out for their best interest and stop worrying about our own selfish pride. When are people going to pull their heads out of the clouds and truly do WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILDREN!!!
After an ugly battle over the last 2 years, my ex and I have finally pulled our heads out of the clouds and realized that the only best resolution for our children is to co-parent them. Our daughter is special needs; he knows the best place for her is with me because of my educational and professional experiences. He also knows that our son and our daughter are close because all they have been through in the last couple of years, they are their own best support system, and cannot therefore be separated. Rather than thinking of himself, he put his own wants and desires aside and realized the best place for her is with me, which means, the best place for our son is also with me.
PAS does exist. My own mother used this when I was younger to alienate my brother and I from our father and tried to do it to me and my ex with our own children when the courts placed them with my mother to keep the children out of harms way of mine and my ex's stupidity. My ex and I now realize that as adults, our needs come last, it is their needs that come first and foremost.
Parents should be parents, grandparents should be grandparents. CHILDREN should be allowed to be CHILDREN and adults need to act more like adults and set the example for the children. ADULTS NEEDS TO GROW UP, stop playing games like they did in high school. Stop playing the blame game, mind games, manipulation, abuse tactics (physical, mental, emotional, verbal) and do what is best FOR THE CHILDREN.
If you were abused in any way whether as a child or an adult, seek help for you and your loved ones. If you are to ashamed, then don't blame society for your failures and expect a hand out. You have to be willing to help your self. To some this post may be harsh, but I went thru being abused by my mother,molested for two years when I was a young teen, raped in my mid 20's(my daughter was conceived of that rape), abused by my ex as that is all he knew how to treat a woman because he never got counseling for it in his youth. I have gotten counseling, my ex has gotten counseling; we have made amends and reconciled to the fact that we need to do our best to co-parent our children, inspite of our differences. We did not divorce because of the abuse, but actually because we both realized I could get more help for our daugther as a single mom , then we could being married with him in the military. I am grateful that it got me out of the abusive situation, but we were more focused on getting our daughter's needs taken care of first and foremost.
When everyone can stop thinking of their wants and desires, and stop feeding into the money hungry court system, put aside their own differences, and think of THE CHILDREN. Stop giving money to a corrupt system. Judges who most often don't care, just want to make a judgement to where someone isn't happy, and then they will get tired of the court ruling and come back only to put more money in the pockets of these corrupt judges. If you work together, and keep the court out of parenting your children, stop paying money into the corrupt system and invest it into your best asset: THE CHILDREN!!!
Think of your childhood. Was it peaceful, if yes. You are fortunate. Did your parents divorce but get along, even "if just for the kids' sake". you are fortunate.Were you raised by both parents?..... you are extremely fortunate. Were you abused while one parent turned a blind eye??? Seek help and then be willing to help others.
Don't just complain about the system.....be a part of those who want to change it and make it better for all. Stop making it about men vs. women. Men..... women can't get pregnant without you. Women....you didn't get pregnant by yourself. If you are both old enough to sleep together, be prepared to raise a child if you both get pregnant(and yes, men get pregnant too; not just the women. Men sleep with women; they should be man enough to take the responsibility of "spreading their seed", and take on that responsibility as equally as the women do.)
I pray for each and every person who reads this post that they will hear the truth of the words I write, that they will see that changes need to start within before you can expect anyone or anything in the world around you to change.
21 - MOM
link to article at democratandchronicleDOTcom
Deadbeat dads
Entertainers should stop making light of men leaving their kids
(October 23, 2005) � In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, rapper Kanye West made a lot of headlines by saying that President Bush doesn't care about black people. His point was that the government ought to have done more to rescue poor people, nearly all of whom were African American, who were left behind in New Orleans.
So it's ironic that West's single "Gold Digger" which is currently No. 1 on the Billboard music charts, takes up the banner for men who are annoyed by having to support their children. That attitude is a major reason many people, like those stranded in New Orleans, end up stuck in a cycle of poverty.
According to U.S. census information, children in single-parent households are four times as likely to grow up in poverty as those in families where both parents are present. In many poor communities, the number of single mothers, and sometimes fathers, who bear full responsibility for their children is growing.
Meanwhile millionaire rapper Young Jeezy is being sued by his son's mother because he has told child support administrators that he owns no property and makes only $35 a day.
That hasn't stopped him from appearing on TV draped in diamonds or offering the use of his Atlanta mansion to Katrina evacuees. His son, meanwhile, lives in public housing.
And these "artists" claim they're getting a bad rap. Please.
22 - MOM
To Teri In Cali:
I read your story about "Is He Loser or Is He Dad." In it you said you divorced three of you children's dads, they left and were not there for their kids? Given your personal experience with your own children's fathers, what makes you think all dads want to be involved in their children's lives? Why did you divorce three of your childrens dads? Were they abusive to you?
MOM
23 - used to be a MOM (member of NANCM)
Yes everyone, the differences of opinions go on.
Yup, Used to be a MOM, that's me. That is it thanks to my former husband who decided that I needed to be punished for leaving an abusive marriage. One more way of being able to control me is through our children. Yup,get her where it will hurt the most. Use those kids to do it and we'll call it Parental Alienation.
Whether it be the Mom or Dad who does it, it is 110% wrong. Kids do need 2 parents in their lives regardless of how we feel about our former spouses. Do I like my former husband? No. Would I ever say anything demeaning, demoralizing or hurtful about him in front of our kids? NO.
But then again, I never got the chance really. In order to avoid child support he repeatedly claimed child abuse to our local child services. They were taken away for 2 weeks with a "no contact" order. They were then released back to me with a "no danger" report.
Yup, after those 2 weeks when they were released, they were not the same kids...and never have been. We are coming up on the 3 yr mark...and yup, he still has me where it hurts. Yup, sad for me, but sadder for our kids. They have been denied the love of their mom and the rest of my family....but guess what?
Moms do it also. I have seen it done and it is so wrong....Moms and Dads are both guilty of it and it needs to stop.
I know some great custodial dads and great custodial moms......can't we all just do what's best for our children?
24 - PeteKaplan
Countess,
I wish you would stop using quotes and claim they're Fathers' rights activists, when you don't even know who you are quoting! How would you like it if someone started using quotes off the internet and saying that they are quoting you?
And you do the samething with your articles. You use quotes and don't even say who you're quoting. How do we know you're not making these quotes up yourself?
Please stop protecting these people if they are as bad as you claim.
25 - The Countess (Trish Wilson)
Pete, you know perfectly well that those are quotes by fathers' rights activists, in their own words. I know exactly who I was quoting. You aren't allowed to troll my blog anymore, and you're acting out here. Take it elsewhere, preferably to the fathers' rights mailing lists where you post most of your drivel.