A few months later, the government informed Mujahid that the witnesses could not be found which meant that his incarceration would continue indefinitely. The newspaper however, found three of the witnesses within three days. One was working for President Karzai, advising him on tribal affairs. Another teaches at the National Defense University in Washington, D.C.
The Guantanamo records are replete with examples of such incompetence or deliberate malfeasance, depending on your point of view. And herein lies the root of the quagmire at Guantanamo; our inability to admit we were wrong about some of these people and work to redress the injustice.
Clearly, there are many detainees at Guantanamo who should never see the outside of prison bars again. And now that the Supreme Court has offered guidance on what to do with these terrorists – specifically asking the President to go to Congress to get the legal authority to try them – those of us who are interested in both justice and our nation's security should wholeheartedly support this effort.
But what can we do to determine the status of hundreds of others whose incarceration is a blot on American jurisprudence and shames our Constitution and our most cherished values? Clearly there must be procedures using our civilian courts to weed out the innocent from the dangerous. And Congress can also intervene here by developing guidelines in concert with the Justice Department and the Department of Defense to insure that justice is done and our national security is protected.
One of the major stumbling blocks is the fact that much of the evidence gathered against detainees is of a classified nature. And evidence gathered as a result of interrogation of other prisoners, if released in open court, could endanger the person who supplied that information. For this reason, detainees cannot enjoy all the rights afforded American citizens in similar circumstances. But they should have the right to an attorney, the right to a speedy review of their case, the right to an examination of the evidence by an impartial judge, and perhaps a limited right to face their accuser if possible.
At the very least, the above gives us a basis for action. Congress has been dithering about this issue for more than three years, passing the buck to the Department of Justice and the Defense Department. Now that the Supreme Court has cleared up some of the issues surrounding detainees at Guantanamo, Congress could indeed clear up most of the others by dealing with detainee rights in a forthright manner that could begin to repair some of the damage done to our reputation as a champion of human rights and the rule of law.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
Right on target, Rick. I wonder if some extra-governmental group could be formed to research the prisoners, figure out which ones really are a threat, get them tried in a legitimate court and set the rest free. It might be a way for Bush to get rid of responsibility for the prisoners - who he clearly has no idea what to do with - and get the situation resolved.
Dave
2 - Rick Moran
Dave:
Don't go there.
The ACLU and others want the United Nations "Human Rights" Commission (in parenth because the representatives of the member states who sit on that excreable commission wouldn't know a human right from my pet cat Ebony)to take over adjudicating the cases.
That would be a monumental slap at our soveriegnty as well as impracticable.
3 - Dave Nalle
Well, that would be a terrible idea, agreed. I was thinking more along the lines of a special commission authorized by congress and the president made up of elder statesmen and experts and maybe headed by someone like GHWB.
Dave
4 - Rick Moran
Ah. That's doable.
Wonder if it could be kept non-political?
5 - Gary Niederhelman
Get your head out of the sand people. There's a bigger picture here. GWB IS wasting 2 billion of your tax dollars a week, and he's NOT even doing the job he's supposed to be doing. By the way, where IS Osama? Probably hiding under the make believe stockpile of WMD's GWB swore on a stack of bibles were in Iraq.
6 - Dave Nalle
I think that people like GHWB and some other moderate elderstatesmen could impose neutrality on it - personally I'd love to see Bob Dole involved. Can't beat him for pure honesty.
And Gary, while you have a valid issue, it's entirely separate from the Guantanamo business. Perhaps you should write up all your concerns and submit them as a post to BC. I'd love to hear your definition of what GWB is supposed to be doing. I need a good laugh.
Dave
7 - Jennifer Ryan
It is such a relief to hear someone from the right who is concerned about the stain that Guantanamo is leaving on our values and our our constitution.
I am a proud liberal, and (in spite of what some on the right may say about liberals) I'm a patriotic American. I'm deeply concerned about restoring and protecting our core values and our reputation around the world, as well as protecting our national security. Maybe this shameful chapter will give some of us on the right and left a chance to rise above the nastiness of recent politics and work together on something that's important to all of us. I can only hope!
8 - Dave Nalle
For what it's worth, this 'shameful chapter' as you call it has been very helpful in showing us who our real friends are around the world and who we can ignore the next time they ask for help. That's got some real value.
As for the nastiness of recent politics, that's all on the Democrat side of the aisle. Maybe if they turned down the nastiness they could tell the difference between real shamefulness and the cheap veneer of shame they want to paint on anyone they disagree with.
Dave
9 - Ngoni Simelane
Well I am not an American and don’t live in America; but I can attest to the damage that Guantanamo is doing to everything that the world saw as American. As a regular visitor to the United States, I am always amazed at how ignorant Americans are of the world outside their borders and the global effects of George Bush’s “War on Terror”. I do not mean this out of disrespect and of course it is unfair to generalise in this way as I regularly meet very knowledgeable American’s with very strong views about the “War on Terror”, but by and large Americans see the world through American eyes " as opposed to Europeans and Asians that tend to see the world both through their national perspective as well as through global eyes.
The “War on Terror” has made us all turn a blind eye to global atrocities and injustices " as long as they can be defended in the name of the “War on Terror”. It is useful to paraphrase London Mayer, Ken Livingstone, who rejected the wholesale erosion of core values and human rights in the name of the “War on Terror” on the basis that most of the proposed legislation failed the “Mandela Test”.
The “Mandela Test” cuts to the heart of some of the problems with the “War on Terror”, it fails to clearly define the terms “Terror” or “Terrorist”.
I have no doubt that in years to come, the entire world will be grateful for George Bush’s bold steps to lead the world in the eradication of the scourge of terrorism. When this war is over, I have no doubt that the world will be a much better place. I am also certain that history will judge the cost of the war as having been too high a price to pay. Historians will argue that terrorism had been contained for many years and could have been overcome sooner and more sustainably by bringing the values that we enshrine so much to those parts of the world that are oppressed by sponsors of terror. Someone once said that Cuba’s Castro could have been overcome many years ago, if America had simply smothered the country with all the values, lifestyle, and luxuries that most Cuban’s covet. Even the Chinese have not been able to keep the tide of capitalism at bay, and soon that tide will wash ashore with the overwhelming surf of democracy; what hope then do the likes of Cuba and Iran have of withstanding the temptations of McDonalds, Coca-Cola, Ford, Disney, IBM and Citi Bank " all people aspire to a better life, with guarantees on basic human rights and dignity, even communists and Islamic fundamentalists.
Fighting the “War on Terror” by getting into bed with repressive regimes in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait cannot be sustainable. Sustaining war lords that have held an entire country hostage in Somalia cannot be the way with which to wage war on behalf of the very values that such people trample upon. How can America claim to be defending the very set of values that they are eroding all over the world. You do not have to be smart to realise that turning a blind eye to the atrocities in Palestine and Chechnya is eroding the credibility of the alliance of the willing as much as Guantanamo is.
10 - Dave Nalle
t is useful to paraphrase London Mayer, Ken Livingstone,
It is impossible to mention Ken Livingstone in a comment and have anyone who knows who he is take the rest of what you write seriously.
Dave
11 - Bliffle
"As for the nastiness of recent politics, that's all on the Democrat side of the aisle. "
?!
12 - Christopher Rose
Dave, that's simply a load of BS. Mind you, it is a fate that you yourself are fast approaching.
Your political "opinions", if such a bizarre mish-mash of delusion and wishful thinking can indeed be called "opinion", totally lacks credibility. Furthermore, attacking people in the way you do does neither the topic or this site any good. In my opinion.
13 - Arch Conservative
You lefties really have no fucking clue as to the threat posed to western civilization by radical islam and what it's going to take to defeat this threat.
While you're bitching and moaning about Gitmo, Abu Gharib and George Bush there are thousands of islamofacists plotting on how to further reak havoc on our society.
You people need to get your heads out of your asses and start living in reality. THE THREAT IS REAL! IT IS NOT HYPE!
Just look at what muslims living in european nations are doing at this very moment. In France, England, Italy..etcc..... The muslim immigrants are calling for Sharia (muslim law) to replace that of the native law in these nations when concerning muslims. The arrogance and contempt of immigrant muslims in europe knows no limits. While living in these european nations many muslims express outright contempt and hostility for these nations.
The recent carton contreversy..........the murder of theo van gogh, the head scarf issue in france ..............
C'mon people...........what is it going to take for you to wake up and realize how intolerant and controlling a large portion of the world's muslims are?
I am so fucking sick of hearing people like Jennifer and bliffle and Gonzo whine about Bush and our rights. Bullshit.........
During world war 2 the governments of england and the US were far more invasive and limiting on it's citizens rights. you know why? because they recognized the threat before them and acted..........they weren't a bunch of whiny little pussies trying to win a popularity contest and appease everyone....THEY WERE PROTECTING A CIVILIZATION
But today instead of Winston Churchill and FDR we have the ACLU, Nancy Pelosi, Jennifer Ryan and Gonzo marx..........bemoaning the inuustices that have befallen AL QUEDA at the hands of our own military. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
The rest of the world thinks poorly of us because of gunatyanamo? So fucking what? The rest of the world thinks the UN actually is a force for good. The american and european mainstream media are ultra-left and sympathetic to the same people that are responsible for 911, the spanish train bombing, and the London subway bombings.
Instead of bowing down before political correctnesss and lofty unrealistic ideals maybe they should get with the fucking program. Radical islam is a threat to our way of life. Anyone who denies it is a fucking moron. And if you ultra left zealots insist on impedeing every defense of our way of life it will be your fault when it is gone. I hope they kill you first.
Fuck all of you..........you're not much better than Bin Laden himself!
14 - Jet in Columbus
The comical part is that he expects anyone to read that past the first sentence or two!
15 - MCH
Re comment #12;
Dittos!!
16 - Dave Nalle
Dave, that's simply a load of BS. Mind you, it is a fate that you yourself are fast approaching.
A statement which I find charming, but which makes no sense at all. How can a person be a load of BS - but everyone has their own style of personal attack.
Your political "opinions", if such a bizarre mish-mash of delusion and wishful thinking can indeed be called "opinion", totally lacks credibility. Furthermore, attacking people in the way you do does neither the topic or this site any good. In my opinion.
I've seen your version of discourse, Christopher, and I'm not impressed. The fact that you can't understand my beliefs or even the most basic reasoning dismays but does not suprise me. You have clearly demonstrated here on BC that your approach to discourse is largely defensive and reactive and you lack much of an interest in analysis or even engaging in a coherent exchange of ideas. You hold your opinions to be absolute and sacrosanct and will not even consider the possibility that other points of view might be valid. Your mind is closed and I don't seem to have the proper key to open it.
Dave
17 - Dave Nalle
Arch, you have many good points - not that any of the people you're trying to address are going to listen to you one bit.
But you're off the mark when you say:
"I am so fucking sick of hearing people like Jennifer and bliffle and Gonzo whine about Bush and our rights. Bullshit........."
That's the one area where there is genuine cause for concern. Both parties, working together, have taken a real run at diminishing our rights using the pretext of the war on terror. Bush's actions which impact very few people on a selective and generally acceptable way aren't the real problem. What you and the others you mention should be worrying about is The Patriot Act which - unlike Bush's emergency measures - permanently threatens our rights in a truly serious way.
Dave
18 - Jet in Columbus
You what Dave, If Arch ever started listening to us, we might actually start respecting some his opinions, but talking to him is like going out on a highway and talking to a right turn only sign...
Solus mei sententia
Jet
19 - Dave Nalle
I give him more credit than that. Even when ranting he makes some valid points. The problem is that he makes it hard for us to take him seriously by saying an equal number of silly and poorly thought out things.
Dave
20 - Arch Conservative
What poorly thought out points?
The threat from radical islam is real and the steps that have been taken to combat this threat have been roundly critisized and blocked from the left.
It's the ACLU that objects to profiling not Jerry Falwell. Hello? If you have a young arab man acting suspicious at an airport we can't stop and question him because it isn't PC? Give me a break. The left has sacrificed all common sense in the name of political correctness. Common sense and recent history dictates that future terrorist attacks will be carried otu by young arab middle eastern men.
it is those on the left that are up in arms about gitmo and abu gharib. They're more outraged by that than by videotapes of behadings of civilians by islamic terrorists being circulated. Where i s there moral outrage there? It's sickening.
The fact is that we cannot make some comprimises as a society in order to preserve our society in the face of this threat.
The left wants us to inform the terrorists ahead of time that we are spying on them, they want us to grant the terrorists the same rights as american citizens have, they want to impede every attempt by the current administration to find out who the terrorists actually are and what they're up to. Then they'd turn around and scream the current admin didn't do enough to protect us if we had another attack. they want it both ways.
So what exactly about anything I said was so silly Dave?
I realize that most Americans are blissfully unware of the trouble muslim immigrants are currently causing in European nations but maybe we should pay closer attention because it is vital to our own national security.
So the ultra-left bush/america haters can go on bitching about abu gharib and gitmo and continue to ignore the looming clash of civilizations. As for myself I say America can and must do everything in it's power to protect her people and her way of life. And if our friends in europe from whom we were spawned are not willing to join our side in the fight it is only to the detriment of thier own individual societies and cultures as muslims continue to threaten them.
The fourth of July is onyl a few days away. I hope in the spirit of patriotism the troops down at gitmo give those terrorists scumbags a heaping helpful of torture and misery all fucking day long.
21 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Terrorism only works if you let it terrify you, Arch Conservative. You give these "islamofacists" more credit than they deserve when you suggest that they are "a threat to our way of life."
Western Civilization, whose very foundation rests upon the notion that all people are equally deserving of civil and human rights, is strong enough to resist the anachronistic forces outside of it that are "plotting on how to further reak havoc on our society."
If we succumb to our fears of terrorist attacks to the point where we lower and redefine ourselves as we see these terrorist enemies, they will win by default.
President Bush says that these terrorists "hate us for our freedom" and, while some people may scoff at his words to place the full blame upon our past and present foreign policies with regard to the Middle East, he is fundamentally correct in that assertion.
These radicals who call us "infidels" because we are not just like them are indeed intolerant and controlling, for they do not believe that all people have the same rights. They lack the maturity and character to respect and embrace the diversity that is unavoidable in this modern world they have rejected.
We must do better than that. They have no honor and they do not respect human and civil rights. We must make every effort not to become like them, because we are better than that.
We respect that everyone has the same rights, regardless of their beliefs, and we have the honor, responsibility, and fortitude to show our enemies greater mercy than they have shown us and the rest of the world.
We must believe in ourselves and our way of life, for it has already equipped us with the tools we need to fight terrorism without taking the easy and dishonorable way out and becoming terrorists ourselves.
If we all do not share the same rights, what exactly is it we are protecting and defending from terrorists and their desire to tyrannize and oppress us by using our fears against us?
22 - Christopher Rose
Dave, I'm going to be laughing for months over your remark that I'm the one with the closed mind. Talk about projecting onto other people!
23 - Jet in Columbus
As cranky and defensive as he's been lately you'd think he was having his period?
24 - Dave Nalle
So what exactly about anything I said was so silly Dave?
I'm kinda the only person defending you here, so you might want to tread lightly.
As for the silly things you've said, blowing off the entire international community is one. Constantly mistaking the ACLU for a purely left wing group is another. And how about:
" they want us to grant the terrorists the same rights as american citizens have, "
Which is a position which is probably held by more people on the right than on the left.
Plus, your spelling and grammar are painful. But like I said, you're basically right.
Dave
25 - Jennifer Ryan
I guess what I'd like to do is find some people on the right who are interested in opening up some real dialogue. I can even find a few points of agreement with ArchConservative's rant, so I'll start there.
First of all, I'm fully aware of the threat posed by radical Islam. I agree with you: it's intolerant, reactionary, fascist, misogynistic, murderous, and very real. I also agree that we need to take the threat seriously and protect ourselves from it.
What's more, I find the beheadings and other killings of innocent people by Islamic militants absolutely repugnant and abhorrent. It is outrageous and those responsible deserve whatever they get -- you won't see me crying about the death of Zarqawi, for example. Justice was served on him... good riddance.
So are we in agreement so far? I honestly don't think that we're that far apart in terms of our feelings about the threat of radical Islam. Where I think we differ is in terms of our assessment of the level of threat from within. I think that western civilization must be defended -- but my point of view is that the crown jewels of western civilization are freedom, democracy, and the rule of law. If we abandon those, then what are we defending?
Do I want to warn the terrorists before we attack them? No. Do I think we should adhere to our principles in this fight? The principles that make us great? Yes.
I guess the questions I'd ask the conservatives are these:
1) Do we need to respect our core values (freedom, democracy, due process, rule of law) during times of war at all or does anything go?
2) If there is some limit on what's acceptable, are we anywhere near it now? Can you imagine a scenario that would make you uncomfortable that our nation had "stepped over the line"?