Obama's choice for Attorney General is a very bad sign for those who had hoped for liberal policies on civil liberties issues from Obama.
The upside of being a Liberty Republican is that when either party gets elected there's always some reason to be hopeful. When the Republicans get elected we can hope for fiscal responsibility, smaller government and robust capitalism. When the Democrats get elected we can hope for some progress on civil liberties and social issues. The downside is that this also means we can be disappointed when the parties don't follow through on the more positive parts of their agendas. For the last eight years the Republicans let us down pretty consistently, failing to live up to their promise of smaller government and fiscal responsibility and giving only a few small victories on issues like gun rights and taxes. Now it looks like the Obama administration is setting us up for another round of disappointments as they move to the center and pass up the opportunity to take genuinely liberal positions on social issues.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Clavos
It's almost fun reading about the change you are not getting in America.
With each succeeding cabinet appointment...
27 - Dave Nalle
Damn, Handy. Could you spin any faster?
I went out of my way in this article to focus primarily on those issues where Holder was not beholden to anyone else on the issues in question, where he was either the one setting the policy or was out of the justice department and working as a judge. None of this stuff can get blamed on anyone else. Notice that I didn't try to connect Holder directly to the Mt. Carmel Massacre. That wasn't his decision the way the Gonzalez seizure was.
Keep hope alive and all that, but don't accuse me of partisanship for reporting the facts. Oh, and you might want to read up on what I've actually written about the Bush justice department. I haven't exactly been kind to them either. But I know the memory of the despairing partisan is always selective.
Dave
28 - pablo
And the sheople say baaaah baaah baaaah baaahrack
29 - Mark Saleski
But I know the memory of the despairing partisan is always selective.
the politics section of bc should be renamed "The Parade of Extreme Irony".
30 - Baritone
I find it fairly ironic that so many people are up in arms about the # of former Clintonians that Obama has named to his administration. He certainly would not look to people from the Bush years (with the possible and perhaps temporary exception of Defense Sec'y Robt Gates.) Clinton's is the most recent Democratic administration. It was also a reasonably well managed administration. It is natural that Obama would look for as much experience as possible. The test of their mettle should come in the next few months.
Stephen Colbert noted a few nights ago that the Obama administration is about the only place in the country that's hiring. Yesterday on "Hardball" it was noted that there are approximately 7000 jobs to be filled in the incoming administration for which they have received an estimated 200,000 applications.
B
31 - Baronius
Handy, you're not making sense. Either the AG affects policy or he doesn't. If he does, then Dave's right to check out Holder's record. If he doesn't, then you're wrong to blame Ashcroft and Gonzales for the "damage" they've done.
And what damage did they do? It seems to me that they did a heck of a job preventing damage, and they did so with a far more gentle hand than most would have.
Actually, I could go on all day about the problems in your comments, and since there's nothing else happening on BC lately, I think I will. You talk about the politicization at Justice. Tell me, what has ever happened at the Bush Justice Department that was anywhere near as political as the commutation of sentences of 16 FALN terrorists?
These 16 "committed, experienced, sophisticated and hardened terrorists" (to quote FBI head Freeh) had their sentences commuted to time served by Bill Clinton following the recommendation from Eric Holder. Why? They were unrepentant. They'd threatened the judge during their trial. They'd never even applied for clemency. But they were Puerto Rican celebrities, and the president's wife was running for Senate in New York.
This same Eric Holder was also involved in the commutation of sentences of two Weather Underground members. Now he wants to sit in the Cabinet with Ayers and Dohrn's buddy and the ex-Senator from New York? It's ugly.
32 - Baritone
Just can't let that Ayers thing go, huh?
B
33 - Dan(Miller)
You should be ashamed of yourself, Doubting Baronius. Senator Obama won the election and the hearts of Man worldwide. He should now be given absolute latitude in selecting whomever he wishes for his cabinet. We should not question his choices, or concern ourselves with their past. Who was the friendly priest who said, "there is no such thing as a bad boy?"
Sure, Mr. Holder did some things he probably should not have done, but he is doubtless repentant and has learned his lessons. We must look to the glorious future gleaming before us, reach out and feast upon the miraculous change about to be bestowed upon us, and be grateful to He who will provide it.
Put all thought of Mr. Ayers et al behind you, Sir, and reach out for the true light.
Dan(Miller)
34 - Baronius
Dan - Eh. There's no point in complaining about every last appointment just because I don't like the President-elect. And let's face it, I'm just a jerk on the internet, so it doesn't matter what I think of Daschle, and even if I were the Senate Minority Leader I couldn't do a thing about any of these nominations.
I just want to see the best caliber people making bad decisions in an honorable way.
35 - Dr Dreadful
@ #34:
Hillary? Is that you???
36 - Baronius
Dread, you've called me some nasty things before...
37 - Baritone
There is no doubt that all of you died-in-the-wool
Bushy-McCainiacs are going to constantly bitch every time Obama draws breath. I suppose that's how it should be, so knock yourselves out.
B
38 - Clavos
There is no doubt that all of you died-in-the-wool Bushy-McCainiacs are going to constantly bitch every time Obama draws breath.
Or, at least, you hope they will.
Otherwise, you won't have anything to dislike them for.
Imagine how frustrated you'd be...
39 - Baritone
I think the dislike is mutual.
I came into Blog Critics, what now, a couple of years ago(?) with my lefty views, but not so much cynicism. I got punched around pretty good early on. I have said more than once Clav, that I respected you and your opinions probably more than any of the others on the "right" side of things here at BC with Baronius perhaps a close second.
Of late our exchanges have had more of a bitter tone coming, I admit, from my end as well as yours. We, and others here feel passionately about many of the various issues batted around on these cyber pages.
Yeah, I suppose we don't like each other very much. I think it has less to do with our opposing views as it does with our tendancy toward sarcasm, condescension and dismissiveness we often level at each other that manifests any ill feelings.
Actually, it's probably best that most of us will never meet each other face to face. I suppose we would work at being civil, but such encounters could easily get ugly.
B
40 - handyguy
From a description of a speech given by Eric Holder in June:
...he condemned Guantanamo as an "international embarrassment"; charged that "for the last 6 years the position of leader of the Free World has been largely vacant"; complained that "we authorized torture and we let fear take precedence over the rule of law"; and called for an absolute end both to rendition and warrantless eavesdropping.
He proclaimed that "the next president must move immediately to reclaim America's standing in the world as a nation that cherishes and protects individual freedom and basic human rights."
41 - handyguy
Among the many dismissive and distorting comments Dave made in 2007 about the politically tainted dismissals of US attorneys, the most absurd was when he tried to tie these attorneys [Republicans appointed by Bush] to Acorn:
"At first I thought this was just another partisan witch hunt from capitol hill, but as details have emerged it turns out there actually IS a scandal here, but it's not the one promoted in the media...
ACORN has been buying votes and filing fraudulent registrations all over the country since before the 2000 election. The scale of the fraud they have committed is enormous, but politically partisan prosecutors have been reluctant to investigate them, as was the case here.
Firing was too good for these US Attorneys. They ought to be investigated for conspiracy in the fraud cases."
One assumes that if this were the case, the Bush administration would have used it as ammo, instead of what they did, which was to deny, deny, deny.
42 - Dr Dreadful
Actually, it's probably best that most of us will never meet each other face to face. I suppose we would work at being civil, but such encounters could easily get ugly.
I don't know, B-tone. It's hard to be sarcastic and nasty when the other person is standing right across from you. I have a feeling most of us would get along pretty well.
I even noticed this when I 'tuned in' to some of the abortive attempts to take the political dialog onto Blog Talk Radio - discussions in which you, Clavos, Dave and other BC luminaries took part. While your differences of opinion were clear, the expressions of a desire to rip one another's throats out were noticeable by their absence.
:-)
43 - Dave Nalle
There is no doubt that all of you died-in-the-wool
Bushy-McCainiacs are going to constantly bitch every time Obama draws breath. I suppose that's how it should be, so knock yourselves out.
Not at all, B-Tone. I had great hopes for Obama as someone who could at least shake up the established political order and do something different, no matter how much I might disagree with his ideology.
But look at him. He's bought into the worst elements of bipartisanship, is reestablishing the same old democratic establishment and is doing nothing to fulfill any of the promises he made. I don't care for most of the specific promises - probably oppose most of them - but I did at least want to see CHANGE - you know, trying something different, being creative, thinking outside the box.
This is why I preferred Obama to Hillary all along. The problem is that people voted for Obama and change and seem to have gotten Hillary and more of the same.
Dave
44 - Baritone
Doc,
What you say is true. The few shows we all did together were actually almost sickeningly amicable.
If a bunch of us were to meet at some watering hole, as long as we only lightly skirted around our heartfelt issues, and as long as none of us had too much "water," I suppose such a get together would be at least nominally friendly, if not downright disgustingly so.
B
45 - Dave Nalle
I still maintain that most of us (those of us who are reasonable - [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]) basically want the same things regardless of our political allegiances. We just disagree on the best ways to accomplish those goals. Sometimes very intensely.
Dave
46 - pablo
Gotta love how Nalle calls the kettle black. The very tools of his trade are slander, smear, and denigrate. Pretty funny stuff I tell ya.
47 - Jet
"There are three things you must never discuss with friends, Religion, Politics and the Great Pumpkin"
Linus Van Pelt
48 - Zedd
Dave,
Rumsfeld, Chaney? Stop yourself.
Dan(Miller)
Where was the scrutiny when Bush and the fiasco brigade were running the nation?
49 - Glenn Contrarian
Dave -
"This is why I preferred Obama to Hillary all along. The problem is that people voted for Obama and change and seem to have gotten Hillary and more of the same."
I strongly disagree.
After spending a career in the military, I tend to think of things in military terms.
I clearly remember a captain we had on the Ranger back in the early 80’s. For much of the time the captain’s tour, the ship did not perform well. It seemed that no matter what we did, it wasn’t good enough. But then we got a new captain - named Tony Davis - and all of a sudden, everything went perfectly. It was incredible…and that was when I first learned how a different guy in charge can make an incredible turnaround using the SAME crew as his predecessor had.
You’ve seen this before with sports teams that go from worst-to-first, after a simple change in the management.
In other words, Dave, this is not Clinton Redux. This is a guy who’s assembling a skilled and experienced team - and if much of the team happened to work for the Clintons before, that is of NO consequence. All that really matters is the ability of the one in charge to give them the proper direction and hold them accountable for their actions.
50 - Clavos
The few shows we all did together were actually almost sickeningly amicable.
They were definitely civil, even more than that.
Your comment further upthread about the exchanges between you and me of late is also true, and I'm disappointed in both of us as a result. You're right when you say that we, at least with each other, were more civil, even friendly, in the past.
I say we can be again.
51 - Baritone
Clav,
As you know, there is a fine, sometimes hard to define line between respective discourse and disrespectful sniping. I'd say we both crossed that line from time to time.
I suppose we should just "chill" for a time. Maybe listen to some good jazz. Most of what takes place through the Bush/Obama transition will not provide much real meat on which to chew.
I, for one, intend to cool my fingers and wait and watch. I am anxious to see how things go, say through the first 90 days or so of Obama's administration to see if he is the kind of leader I believe he will be, or, as Baronius says, "just an empty suit."
B
52 - Clavos
I suppose we should just "chill" for a time...Most of what takes place through the Bush/Obama transition will not provide much real meat on which to chew.
I've actually been doing that (to a degree) since the election. You might not have noticed, but my comment volume is down considerably since then, and I'm (mostly) avoiding discussions specific to Obama and his activities, and just observing.
In any case, the respect you say you have for me IS reciprocal; in large part because of your civility in the past.
53 - Dave Nalle
In other words, Dave, this is not Clinton Redux. This is a guy who's assembling a skilled and experienced team - and if much of the team happened to work for the Clintons before, that is of NO consequence. All that really matters is the ability of the one in charge to give them the proper direction and hold them accountable for their actions.
I don't necessarily have a problem with this. I think the Clinton administration was basically pretty solid. But it is NOT what was advertised and voted for by the American people. If they wanted change, they should get change, not just a rehash of the greatest hits of the last two administrations. I suppose that having marginally better leadership at the top is a change, but it's not the type or degree of change people were expecting.
dave
54 - Dan(Miller)
Zedd, you ask Where was the scrutiny when Bush and the fiasco brigade were running the nation?
It strikes me that there was quite a lot of scrutiny. However, let's assume for the sake of argument that there was none or that there was too little. Does that suggest that there should be no scrutiny of President Elect Obama and his associates? That those who perceive potential problems should be silent? That only those who were pleased with his election should be heard? What do you suggest?
Dan(Miller)
55 - Dave Nalle
Based on comments and articles I've been reading, the American right is now supposed to shut up and go away.
Dave
56 - Baritone
The "change" that Obama preached about during the campaign didn't have so much to do with the people he intends to bring into his administration, but rather, with instituting significant change in policy, and, perhaps, ideology.
People are not pre-programmed automatons. Presumably, Obama had sit downs with each of his cabinet and other choices clearly laying out his agenda and expectations. And, presumably, each of them have assured Obama that they would be willing and able to carry out that agenda, even in the event that it did not necessarily align with their own thinking.
Through the campaign and the early stages of the transition Obama has, if nothing else, shown himself to be very self possessed, unflappable and on top of what was and is happening.
I'm sure Obama is aware of his own lack of first hand experience with many of the issues at hand, and it behooves him to surround himself with people who have "been there, done that," especially as regards the nuts and bolts and pitfalls of traversing the DC landscape.
If he were to bring in a slew of beltway novices in key positions, it could be a blood bath. It might anyway. Better that under the circumstances Obama should have people advising him who know the machinations of working the DC crowd, and perhaps, people who know where some of the bodies are buried.
B
57 - Dave Nalle
My comparison would be with the Kennedy administration. Kennedy brought in the 'best and the brightest' which generally did not include a lot of career political appointees, but rather people from academia and the business world and outside of the mainstream of establishment government. He didn't bring on a bunch of FDR and Truman people to run things.
I had sort of been expecting a similar approach from Obama. That would have been much more the kind of change which I think people were anticipating.
Dave
58 - Baronius
"There is no doubt that all of you died-in-the-wool Bushy-McCainiacs are going to constantly bitch every time Obama draws breath. I suppose that's how it should be, so knock yourselves out."
You'll find the opposite is true. We blame ourselves for our losses, and use every one of them as an opportunity for infighting and internal reform. We all went out and bought "YES WE LOST" t-shirts. This is one of the big differences between D's and R's. Republicans are generally better human beings.
Sure, you hear some muttering about Obama's birth certificate or ACORN, but nearly all of us completely accept the results of the election. We won't make up stories about chads or Diebolt machines. We won't complain about the electoral college. All of that undermines confidence in the American system.
The Democrats, on the other hand, would rather harm the institutions than admit defeat. They convinced half the country that the prior two presidential elections were stolen. Again, I don't mean all Democrats, but plenty of them.
Consider the Nixon and Clinton impeachments. Under Nixon, the Republicans in the Senate followed principle over their party's leader. Nixon stepped down rather than harm the nation further. Under Clinton, the Democrats stood in line behind a president who preferred to drag the country through a national scandal rather than step down. Clinton proved himself to be half the man Nixon was.
So here we are again. I'll question Holder's nomination, but I'll sit back and watch Obama, Biden, Daschle, and all the others take their oaths of office. And I'll wish them and the country all the best.
59 - Baritone
"This is one of the big differences between D's and R's. Republicans are generally better human beings.
Ah, good to see that you are offering the proverbial olive branch Bar.
There's a good deal to take issue with in your comment, but I guess the quote above is at its essence. That you believe Republicans to be "better human beings" than Democrats is revealing. I guess it helps to salve your wounds if you rationalize the Republican losses with the notion that you are inherently better people than the evil Dems. Well, if say, god is on your side, I guess he picked the wrong team. Gives one pause, doesn't it?
B
60 - Ruvy
I, for one, intend to cool my fingers and wait and watch. I am anxious to see how things go, say through the first 90 days or so of Obama's administration...
Baritone, for your own sake, don't relax your watch. Keep a careful eye on the man who still has the rudder of state, and keep a close eye on he who is presumed to assume control of that rudder in a month or so.
I'm not talking about the nature of the comments you make, I'm talking about your vigilance - no matter what you choose to say here.
It is during just such times that the most finagling, and most dangerous deceptions can occur - the time that people think they can relax.
61 - Baronius
Bar, that's as witty and inflammatory as I get. Someone's got to get the conversation rolling around here.
I am offering the olive branch. I've seen what sore losing looks like over the past 8 years, and I don't want any part of it. But if wounds heal quicker by not picking at them, so much the better.
62 - Baronius
And I've got to include my elder brother Ruvy in this. He and others have accused Bush of planning to steal this election, with no evidence to support that charge. I understand suspicion of those in power, but at some point you're just inciting paranoia. Ruvy, if the Republicans refuse to yield power, I'll admit I was wrong. I expect you to apologize to all of us at the beginning of the Obama Administration.
63 - Ruvy
Baronius,
My suggestions to Baritone do not have anything to do with the Bush administration refusing to yield power. They have to do with what people do when they think they can get away with hell, and this is especially true during transitions. For that, I send you to this article at Global Research.com.
My accusations of the Bush administration refusing to yield power were not made without some kind of back-up. But, Baronius, you'll have to go to this article in my blogsite Ruvy's Roost "Signs of Redemption" to see them. It is my considered opinion that Obama, even though I do not believe he was the natural born citizen the constitution requires, will be inaugurated as president. It is my opinion that the conference of justices to be held 5 December will refuse to hear the cases brought on certiorari to prevent the election and inauguation of Senator Obama. You will see the reason I feel assured of this in that same article at Ruvy's Roost.
As for my advice to Baritone, "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance".
64 - Baritone
Well, Ruvy, I understand your concern, but, hey, I've got some monster nap time to catch up on. Just call me Rip Van Baritone for the next several weeks. When I wake up, everything will be hunky-dorey.
B
65 - Ruvy
Enjoy your nap, Baritone. When you come back, come basck with some funny articles on what lovely customers New Yorkers are when they get in cabs.
I'm sick of politics.
Olmert and at least one other aide is getting the book thrown at them. It's news, real news. I could gve a damn.
Just a comment for the legal eagle (I forget her name) who took out my allegations that Olmert was a thief from my first article on him way back....
I told you so.
66 - Les Slater
"Republicans are generally better human beings."
I don't think that is too useful but there is a germ of truth in it.
To dismiss a large portion of the population as being stupid, or ignorant, for voting for Bush or McCain, is not a human characteristic to be proud of.
Actually, it is a social characteristic of a vocal, relative minority of those seeing themselves as Democrats. Still nothing to be proud of.
67 - Cindy D
Actually, it's probably best that most of us will never meet each other face to face. I suppose we would work at being civil, but such encounters could easily get ugly. (B)
I don't know, B-tone. It's hard to be sarcastic and nasty when the other person is standing right across from you. I have a feeling most of us would get along pretty well. (Dr.D)
I'd probably give Dave a big hug and a smooch (on the cheek of course).
68 - Les Slater
Cindy,
I made a trip to Houston the beginning of this year. I also had business in Austin. I sent Dave an email suggesting we might meet for lunch or something. It didn't happen but I'm sure we would have gotten along just fine.
Les
69 - Cindy D
"Republicans are generally better human beings."
I don't think that is too useful but there is a germ of truth in it.
I am not sure there is even a germ of truth in it. Republicans are, to me, mostly authoritarians. But then , so are "progressives/liberals". Although, I personally think Baronius is a "better human being". Something I wouldn't normally (via my own bias) allow for both Republicans and fundamentalists. I only wish his fellows lived up to his standard. (And I include Glenn Contrarian here too.)
I am currently writing my first BC article. It will be on this subject. Although it hardly looks at the right, it will not look favorably on the left.
70 - Cindy D
(And I include Glenn Contrarian here too.): as living up to standards I would have not thought a fundamentalist capable of.
71 - Baritone
Les,
"I don't think that is too useful but there is a germ of truth in it.
To dismiss a large portion of the population as being stupid, or ignorant, for voting for Bush or McCain, is not a human characteristic to be proud of."
By the above you mean to indicate that no one had any disparaging words to say concerning Obama and his backers? Hmmm. Seems like I could, if so inclined, sift through articles and comments right here on BC that would give the lie to that notion.
If I'm not mistaken, we Obamaites were often characterized as being mindless idolizers. Not very flattering, no?
At least Bush and his devotees had earned the derision they received over the past 8 years.
B
72 - Baronius
Thanks, Cindy. And I'm sure that the worst of the Democrats will calm down once they get back in power. It just seems like they need it so badly!
73 - Zedd
Dan(Miller)
I was asking where the scrutiny was from you in particular. I think we should all keep an eye on any President. I do think however that it is ridiculous for those who voted for Bush; who watched the fiasco role out and kept waving flags, then went to the polls and voted him in AGAIN, to pretend to be so responsible of citizens that they can't wait for the new guy to get into office before offering strong scrutiny. It was an easy call Dan, yet nothing. No digging deep or immense deductive challenges, Bush and his crew were reckless and ill equipped. It was all obvious. The war was a sham and millions of Americans called it. The recklessness of this administration has caused a domino affect of unknown proportion. I heard yesterday that what we are faced with is a fanancial disaster to the magnitude of Katrina hitting every city all over the nation.
Where is the evaluation of HOW THE HECK WE GOT HERE. It's sorta important. You cant consider yourself qualified to judge a good leader if you chose the worst one in our history, twice.
74 - Zedd
Sure, you hear some muttering about Obama's birth certificate or ACORN, but nearly all of us completely accept the results of the election. We won't make up stories about chads or Diebolt machines. We won't complain about the electoral college. All of that undermines confidence in the American system.
where to begin....
This is such bad logic it drives one to conclude that to try and address the fallacies of this conclusion is hopeless. The author is simply too far gone to be brought back to a state of reasonability. Sigh.... It's just bad.
75 - Les Slater
Btone,
"At least Bush and his devotees had earned the derision they received over the past 8 years."
No more than Democrats in power. If you're talking about policy, it's been quite bipartisan.
"[do] you mean to indicate that no one had any disparaging words to say concerning Obama and his backers?"
No, but you did notice that when the McCain campaign, in desperation, raised those howls most vociferously, it became even more unpopular and isolated.
"...and comments right here on BC that would give the lie to that notion."
Judging by the comments in the Politics section of BC Magazine one would have to conclude that the voice of communists is quite significant. It ain't true. BC is not very representative of the population as a whole.
Les