Some major compromises are needed to achieve a lasting peace in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The duration of the conflict has, however, led to such engrained attitudes, policies, strategies and aims that compromises are extremely difficult. The number of people killed in the conflict is also a factor. Parties on both sides want to ensure that the dead did not die in vain. Here are the perspectives as seen by either side:
The Palestinian Perspective:
More Palestinians have been killed in the struggle than Israelis. The Palestinians have a greater weight on their shoulders to avenge deaths by gaining a sovereign state and other conditions. However, this also gives the Palestinians the greater desire for peace, because as the conflict goes on they will continue to be the biggest losers in terms of civilian casualties.
The Palestinians have also come to believe that Israel does not want peace, because of the provocative tactics during ceasefires and negotiations. Like the West Bank arrest raids during the recent ceasefire, and the current operation in Nablus, which has dampened hopes of restarting the stalled peace process: Israel's failure to adhere to previous peace deals, like the settlement expansions contrary to the U.S. brokered roadmap agreement, reinforces the Palestinian view.
As does the West Bank "security" wall that Israel is building. Mainly because the Palestinians negotiations rely on the formation of an independent Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, the wall is well inside these borders in some places. Palestinian Negotiations Minister Saib Uraiqat said last year: "This is a policy of dictation and not negotiation, this prejudges and prejudices the outcome of permanent status negotiations."
This prevents the Palestinians from making any further concessions or compromises, because the concessions they have made in the past - like the Palestine Liberation Organization's recognition of Israel - have yielded nothing in return. In their resistance lies their dignity, and their dignity is almost all they have left.
The Israeli Perspective:
Israel has received heavy financial and military support from the U.S. throughout decades of conflict. Israelis may well doubt whether this would continue if they were no longer under threat from Palestinian terror. The U.S. supports Israel because it wants an ally in a position of supremacy in the vital Middle East region. But Israel also being threatened certainly makes it easier to explain to the U.S. public why heavy support is needed.
The Israeli government also has strong remnants of the Zionist movement that was the driving force behind the creation of the Jewish state - on the very land so symbolically important to the Jewish faith. As Israeli academic and author Ilan Pape told me in a recent interview, "Israel is an unfinished project of statehood." The Zionists crave certain lands that they believe religious heritage has dictated for the final Jewish state, and hence Israel's reluctance to define borders. To this end, the conflict is necessary, because it diverts attention from Zionist transgressions and because the Palestinian threat begets strong security measures, like occupying Palestinian land whenever necessary, along with the land-annexing security wall. These measures are also extremely provocative, and fuel the vicious cycle of violence.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Lee Richards
Sorry to be ever-the-cynic about the M.E. but as long as religion provides the fuel for the political, territorial, societal and economic fires there, they will continue to flare up out of control forever. We have to recognize the real insanity behind killing people for centuries over conflicting interpretations of fictional ancient literature! Yes, they can make temporary compromises from time to time, usually to buy more time in order to gain some short term political or military advantage. But, IMO, nothing and no one will ever bring lasting peace as long as Jews, Muslims, and Christians keep slaughtering each other because of "God's word". Psychosis doesn't just go away.
2 - methuselah
You are correct, Lee.
3 - moonraven
I don't get it. Let me see if I understand you.
You are basing your article on a proposed Israeli commitment to peace?
When has Israeli ever showed the slightest inclination to live peacefully with Palestinians?
They have no peaceful intentions, and they will not have any peaceful intentions in the future. All of their behavior has shown that.
The only "solution" to the problem is to de-countrify Israel and find another part of the planet that is willing to take in the Israelis.
I don't think it will be a piece of cake, as they have showed themselves to have absolutely no desire to live peacefully with ANYONE.
4 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I read Liam's article and have some thoughts about it, but found Marthe's comments above far more interesting. Let's see if we can simplify what she says here so that even the rich dummies living in North Tel Aviv understand what she says...
It's instructive. Here is her premise.
When has Israeli ever showed the slightest inclination to live peacefully with Palestinians?
They have no peaceful intentions, and they will not have any peaceful intentions in the future. All of their behavior has shown that.
Here is her conclusion:
The only "solution" to the problem is to de-countrify Israel and find another part of the planet that is willing to take in the Israelis.
Now we find her assessment of that suggested solution.
I don't think it will be a piece of cake, as they have showed themselves to have absolutely no desire to live peacefully with ANYONE.
Now let's put this in layman's language (with the deja vu points in parens).
Israelis do not want peace with anybody (contumely arrogant people).
Therefore they do not deserve a counry. Kick them out of their country and hope that somebody will take them in. (Juden raus!)
But they are so impossible to live with, nobody likely will. (ItbaH al Yahud!)
Now let's replace one word in this simplfication - substitute "Jew" for "Israeli" - Israel in its poresent form is the JEWISH State.
And now reduce to a simple solution.
"KILL THE JEWS"
Gee, I've heard that before...
5 - moonraven
Except that I did not replace Israel with JEWS. And furthermore, Ruvy knows full well that I am not in favor of killing the Jews--or any other ethnic/religious group. We have delineated this differences on other threads.
But I do have to say that the behavior of the Israeli government is probably more than sufficient to piss off enough people so that a revival of anti-semitism could be probable in the near future.
The government of Israel has no one to blame but itself if that happens.
6 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
You didn't say "kill the Jews", but you might as well have. The logical answer to YOUR "solution" above is "LOCK AND LOAD."
Now, Marthe, let's give a more intelligent look at your assertions, and assuming that they are true, find a just solution.
Might I suggest simply that you substitute "Israelis" above with "government of Israel." In truth, the government of Israel is not really interested in "peace." It is interested in power and protecting those who keep it in power - rich businessmen who exploit the poor in this country.
The government should be deposed, and one that protects the rights of Israelis, acting to pursue justice, replace it. That makes a lot more sense because innocents in this country are not oppressed by the deposing of an unjust and tyrannical regime that hides under the forms of democracy, much as did the government of Ghana did forty years ago. They are liberated instead.
A government truly interested in justice, which is free from American or European interference or dominance will implement a solution that grants justice to the resident Arabs in this land.
7 - moonraven
Hey, Ruvy, I am not shy. What I want to say I have no fear of saying. Therefore,l let's not put words in my mouth.
I have no problem with making disticntions between the Israeli government and Israelis--up to a point. Unfortunately, enough time has passed that I have seen a fair sample of what Israelis do once they get their hands on power.
It isn't pretty.
I stand by my previous suggestion: de-countrify Israel.
8 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I am not shy either, Marthe; you effectively suggested killing of the Jews of Israel, of whom I am one.
I am not interested in your intellectual equivocation or bullshitting, (as in "But I do have to say that the behavior of the Israeli government is probably more than sufficient to piss off enough people so that a revival of anti-semitism could be probable in the near future. The government of Israel has no one to blame but itself if that happens.")which is all the difference between me and the rich dummies of North Tel Aviv, who would argue with you till your goons shoved them off a dock to die.
MY ANSWER TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU, WHEREVER YOU LIVE OR SHOW YOUR FACE, IS LOCK, LOAD AND FIRE. If your own hatred of my people gets you killed, you have no one to blame but yourself.
9 - moonraven
Cut the shit, RUV: At no point did I advocate KILLING anybody.
I advocated and still advocate DE-COUNTRIFICATION of Israel.
That is my last word on the subject, as you have gone off your meds again. And now you are threatening me. I believe threats fall directly under the heading of personal attacks, sir.
10 - Mark Schannon
It's hard to know where to begin with this inflammation dressed up to be bandage. The inaccuracies and biases make it virtually unintelligible.
The Palestinians have also come to believe that Israel does not want peace, because of the provocative tactics during ceasefires and negotiations.
Huh? Is that before or after Hamas and the PLO started killing each other. Or the idiot Hamas keep launching missiles into Israel. Or the walkaway from at least the beginnings of peace by Yassir "I be de man" Airafloat. Or the fact that Hamas still calls for the destruction of Israel along with their good friends in Syria and Iran.
Gimme a break. If you're going to do "analysis," then analyze something--no wonder Ruvy sees anti-semitism everywhere. It's called survival among the savages.
In Jameson Veritas
11 - JustOneMan
Marthe...Dont worry about Ruvy...not that I am attacking him but people his age are many times suffering from impotence and senility...
Amazing how tough people are when they can hide behind the computer!
JOM
12 - methuselah
"...the behavior of the Israeli government is probably more than sufficient to piss off enough people so that a revival of anti-semitism could be probable in the near future."
Apparently, it isn't necessary to revive anti-semitism. It's not dead and it's not even dormant.
"The government of Israel has no one to blame but itself if that happens."
Huh!
And I say this even tho I don't trust the Israelis, personally. Remember the USS Liberty!
Surely it would be easier to 'de-countrify' the palestinians since there are so many nations in the area who would love to take in their beloved brothers with open arms. Aren't there?
13 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
My final words on this particular thread.
1. People who sit patrol ready to defend their homes can talk about the senility of others. Just got back from the bootka at the gate of the village. Fools from the stinking dumps of New Jersey are wiser to keep quiet lest they be called on their bullshit.
2. Methuselah (what a moniker!) has called Marthe for what she is - in spite of his dislike/distrust of the Israeli government... Kol hakavód - all honor to you for pointing out the rancid odor of Jew hatred rising from behind the equivocation of an academic who got caught saying what she really meant.
3. Liam, Mark has pointed out the problems with your article. You have contrasted the "righteous Palestinian" position with a "caspar milquetoast" Israeli position that is not really an analysis at all.
Zionism was a tool that was the right tool to accomplish its goal. But it needs to be put in its box (I believe that was my term originally, Liam) because the nation of Israel needs to progress beyond this pathetic secular "state" to achieve its Redemption - and thereby provide justice and equity for the resident Arabs and returning Children of Israel.
That's all she wrote, guys. Now it is time for me to leave this machine and give praise to my Maker for allowing me to see another dawn - a grey day even in the clouds surrounding the mountains of Samaria.
Bóker Tov meharéi Shomrón ba'Éretz Yisraél!
14 - joe
Ruvy - sorry to butt in, but how would you feel about a non-religious state in Israel/Palestine encompassing all Israeli/Palestinians as equal citizens?
[Genuine question btw. This has been mooted several times in discussion I have had with various people. Personally I think it is a non-starter, but hey, what do I know?]
15 - JustOneMan
The problem is illustrated in Ruvies post..
1. Arrogance of a people believeing that they are the chosen ones and the rest of us dont matter.
2. The broken record of victimization
3. Delusion that they are able to defend themselves without the support of the US.
Hey Ruvy maybe we can ship NJ garbage to your country its obvious that it is already a dump filled with garbage pickers!
JOM
16 - Jet in Columbus
" people his age are many times suffering from impotence and senility...
Amazing how tough people are when they can hide behind the computer!
JOM "
That is one of the most hypocritical and pathetic statements I've ever read...
17 - Michael J. West
I have said this before, but I will say it again: compromise is necessary but not possible on either side. YET.
I think often of Gorbachev's rise to power in the Soviet Union and how it was remarked upon that he was the first Soviet leader to be born after the Revolution of 1917. That was somewhat symbolic, but there was a tremendous piece of logic to it, too: Gorbachev had no memories, sacrifice, or other personal investment in the Soviet Revolution.
The time, I think, for any lasting peace to occur between Israelis and Palestinians (admittedly, I say this from a long distance away in space and time) will be when the people in power on BOTH sides were born after the 1948 war. Maybe even after the 1967 war, but absolutely after the 1948 war. And for the same reason: so that they had nothing invested, gained, or lost in those conflicts. No scars.
In other words, the first real step to peace in the Middle East is to have 1948 be history--not memory.
18 - Deano
I'm curious how this so-called process of "de-countrification" would ever happen....
Who do you think would bell that particular cat?
What on earth makes you think that the people being "de-countrified" would be willing to sit passively back and let things happen?
19 - moonraven
It's really quite simple.
The British buggered off from the Palestinian Mandate to fight Rommel in the desert of Egypt, effectively giving in to the Zionist terrorists.
The UN (wet behind the ears but apparently well-intentioned) made Israel a country--a country that since 1948 has given the finger to every single one of the UN resolutions passed against it.
The UN giveth and the UN taketh away.
The UN should take away Israel's charter as a nation of the UN. They should unload the refugee camps of their millions of Palestinians and repatriate those families.
Let the US Zionists take up the slack for the "Israelis". I think the process is called Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is.
20 - Deano
Simple eh? Even ignoring the fact that getting the UN to agree to anything remotely significant requires huge work and support and generally results in ineffective posturing more often than not, you still have no real legal precedent for taking action.
It is highly questionable whether the UN would have the legal right to "de-countrify" anyone(countries are not required to be members of the UN to exist and the legal definition of a country and its right to exist under international law pre-dates the UN by a considerable margin).
As an added bonus, the UN has no standing army and no "enforcement" capabilities beyond which it's members willingly provide it.
Lastly if you think your de-countrification suggestion would result in anything else other than a vicious and bloody war, then you are delusional.
In short, your exercise in "de-countrification" would remain where it probably should - another fantasy-based solution for people to blog endlessly about.
21 - moonraven
I think you just want to argue, as history is not your strong suit.
As I indicated previously, Israel was CREATED by the UN General Assembly (in 1947, actually).
If the UN can CREATE a country, it can take away that creation. That's legal precedent in itself.
The UN General Assembly has had NO trouble agreeing on way more than a fistful of resolutions against Israel since its creation. Do a google search!
The US has vetoed most of them, and Israel has ignored the rest because the US told it to.
With US influence in the toilet at the moment, there is no better time than the present to decountrify Israel.
As for countries willing to contribute military support to enforce said de-countrification, I can think of more than sufficient numbers--not even considering the Arab countries. There is a pretty good handful from Latin America--beginning with Venezuela, which withdrew its ambassador to Israel last summer as a result of the war crimes committed against Lebanon.
A vicious and bloody war is the daily bread of Israel. De-countrification is the only way to put an end to that.
22 - moonraven
At least this poster blogs about what she KNOWS!
23 - zingzing
what you "know" is rather simplistic. what do you suggest doing with the jews? or the fact that they won't go for "de-countrification?"
24 - Deano
Moonraven,
I am well aware that the UN approved the 1947 Partition Plan dividing the territory into 2 states. The Partition Plan was followed, as you should well know, by widespread fighting between the Arabs and the Jews which eventually became a full-fledged war, leading to the declaration of the State of Israel in 1948.
25 - moonraven
You now can't read: I posted above (19): Let the US Zionists take up the slack for the "Israelis". I think the process is called Putting Your Money Where Your Mouth Is.
I said it was really very simple. And it IS.
Only the folks who support Israel's continued genocide and war crimes (folks who continue doing the same thing themselves in Iraq and Afghanistan) say it's complex.
The Arabs don't see it as complex at all.