Not too many people these days will admit to having played Dungeons and Dragons to any great extent, regardless of the immense influence the game has had not only on gaming up to and including the best selling electronic games such as Modern Warfare and its sequel, but also on books, movies, and pop culture as a whole.
So yeah, I played the game...and as a result of my addiction, my GPA for my first year in college in 1980 was an abysmal 1.28 — not exactly something to brag about. But I took a few useful lessons from the game that I still apply in everyday life, and one lesson in particular should be applied to politics: "Lawful Good is not the same as Lawful Stupid".
Now for the uninitiated, this will take a short explanation. In the AD&D world, there something called "alignment" which refers to a character's personality. There's Good, Neutral, and Evil, and there's Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. The Good and Evil are self-explanatory — either you're good or evil or something in between. The attributes of 'Lawful' and 'Chaotic' refer to how much importance one places on following "the rules", whatever those rules may be...so you're either lawful or chaotic or something in between. One's alignment was a combination of the two series: 'chaotic neutral', 'lawful evil', and so on.
But for the purposes of this article, I'll concentrate on the hardest "alignment" to play: "Lawful Good" (hereafter referred to as 'LG'). The LG character is supposed to believe in all that is good and right and honorable, and that one should hold the rules inviolate. The LG character is what most televangelists and religious luminaries pretend to be. The consummate LG character would be a far right-wing gun nut who nevertheless plays by all religious, governmental and societal rules. Bear in mind that this refers not to lesser rules such as speed limits or smoking restrictions, but on greater rules of morality that are found in nearly all cultures: prohibitions on murder, torture, false imprisonment, etc.
Now the prevailing attitude among most AD&D players was "Lawful Good equals Lawful Stupid", i.e. if one insists on playing by The Rules, then those who don't play by The Rules will run rings around the idiot (and said idiot would thus have a much-shortened life expectancy). Now this sounds quite logical — after all, how can one expect to win wars (or prevent them) by playing by such rules as "don't eavesdrop on suspected spies" or "don't send a predator drone into Pakistani territory where intel says Osama's hiding"? The chaotic character believes that insisting on playing by the rules is naivete incarnate, that "the end justifies the means", and that sometimes you've got to break the rules.
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
Glenn, I also played a lot of D&D in my day, not to mention quite a few other roleplaying games. I did manage to keep my freshman GPA somewhat higher, though. I also wrote extensively on D&D and roleplaying subjects for magazines like TSR's Dragon - about 200 articles and maybe twice that many product reviews in the 70s and 80s.
The alignment system is at once both brilliantly simple and at the same time a fundamental failure when it comes to representing the complexity of human motivation. It's too granular a system for most real-world applications, but very effective as a way to "nutshell" morality in a game world.
Applying it to governments is inherently problematic, because by nature all governments fall in the range between Lawful-Evil and Lawful-Neutral. At that level of granularity it's hard to see much difference between Israel's government and the government of the United States. Both use rigid enforcement of law to pursue policies which are basically against the best interests of their citizens, or at best indifferent to the welfare of the people.
The folks on that boat are a more interesting application of the D&D alignment system, with the mix of chaotic-good would-be dogooders and chaotic-neutral to perhaps neutral-evil quasi terrorists or terrorist sympathizers.
Terrorists make an interesting study in the problem of the system as well, as from their perspective they are Lawful-Good, but from everyone else's perspective they're chaotic-evil. Clearly there's a lot of subjectivity to how the system is applied.
As for me, I always played chaotic-neutral characters.
Dave
2 - Ruvy
Glenn,
I never played DD, but I got your points real fast. I have little use for Snivelus Netanyahu - he is a cheater, a liar and a swindler, not to mention a sore loser. But in ordering the boarding of the ships headed to Gaza to break Israeli sovereignty - a bully squad sent and backed by the Turks - Netanyahu was right. Frankly, torpedoing the lead Turkish would have been the right move, in my opinion, but that is another matter.
This issue is black letter law. Gaza is a de-facto hostile state at war with Israel, and blockading it is the least our government can do to protect its citizenry. This was merely a police action to enforce that blockade.
That you cannot see this shows your own moral blindness.
Netanyahu displayed his usaual cowardice in allowing the Turks, Europeans and Arabs to go home instead of making them sweat it out in an Israeli jail while the governments of their home countries jumped up and down and threatened this and that dire consequence. He had the opportunity to truly test whether the Turks have any balls or not.
The Turks are good at murder and genocide, a fact you managed to leave out of your morality lecture, and they are good at persecuting minorities in their own borders in a manner that makes Israel look like a bunch of sweeties by comparison.
Funny, Glenn, only when Jews do wrong do you complain. Everyone else seems to get a free pass. Do you actually unconsciously agree with me that all goyim are animals?
3 - Doug Hunter
"as from their perspective they are Lawful-Good, but from everyone else's perspective they're chaotic-evil."
Very good point. When it comes to war, it is always chaotic and evil while the two sides likely feel their position is lawful and good. War IS sometimes better than the alternative. WWII is a perfect example. We used Nuclear weapons and bombing runs intentionally targetting civilians to break their will (terrorism?) I'm satisfied with the outcome of WWII even though we were forced to use evil tactics.
Would anyone rather have simply set idly by and let Germany slaughter it's weaker neighbors and exterminate the undesirables?
Other examples: Prison, Government itself (it's wrong to put one person in a position of authority over another, but also necessary)... the world is full of choices of lesser evils, that's the result of living in an imperfect world.
4 - Glenn Contrarian
Dave -
My compliments to the editor, whether it was you or someone else. A nurse who works with our medically-fragile kids just had a book published and I'm hoping to work with her editor on my own book. I mention this because the professionalism of the BC editors has helped me to understand just how crucial they are to effective writing.
Again, kudos to the editor.
5 - Glenn Contrarian
Ruvy -
If I've seemed to single out the Jews, then that was not my intention and please accept my apology for the confusion. My aim was to criticize the political entity that is Israel and its government - but not Jews or Judaism.
The reason I take issue with Israel is not because they're worse than anyone else, but because they should be holding themselves up to a higher standard than anyone else. A nation that holds itself to be chosen by God had better strictly adhere to God's laws - including laws of morality - or that nation becomes guilty of religious hypocrisy.
That's why I was so critical of the Bush administration - like so much of the supposedly-religious Far Right, it didn't even try to hold itself to the standard it claimed. At least the Obama administration's trying to do so, and he himself is man enough to publicly apologize when he's wrong (an admirable quality that is a rarity indeed among men of great power).
And if you'll remember, I've repeatedly stated that the greatest enemies of the Jews have been mainstream "Christians", and particularly Catholics.
No, I do not criticize the Jews as a people or a religion just as I do not criticize most of the Islamic people or beliefs. If I'm guilty of criticizing a religion, it's the mainstream "Christians"...and I think my writings here and elsewhere will bear that out.
"Always do right - it will gratify your friends and astonish your enemies." Mark Twain
6 - Les Slater
"The Turks are good at murder and genocide, a fact you managed to leave out of your morality lecture, and they are good at persecuting minorities in their own borders in a manner that makes Israel look like a bunch of sweeties by comparison."
I don't agree totally but you do raise much truth here.
7 - roger nowosielski
Les,
I think you posited an interestng question on the other thread - about dealing with symptoms rather than a real problem.
I posted a response right after. Interested in your take on it.
I think you've hit on an important principle. It merits further discussion.
8 - Les Slater
Refresh my memory.
There is merit in Ruvy's assertions that Israel is being singled out unfairly. As I have said at various times, Israel is only part of the equation. Imperialism is behind it all but we must not ignore the despicable roles played by other parties in the Middle East. Ruvy is correct to point out how most of these parties treat Jews.
One must seriously consider that pointing the finger only at Israel is often motivated by Jew hatred. Ignorance at best.
9 - roger nowosielski
Well, yes - that remark. I posted a response on that very thread.
10 - Les Slater
Has anyone else noticed that this site hangs waiting for tweetmeme.com and lijit.com?
11 - Mark
#10 Yes. But for all the nice folks here, I would've written the site off awhile ago.
12 - roger nowosielski
Actually, Glenn touches on some very interesting conceptual relationships here - morality, legality and politics. His first philosophical piece, as it were, whether he realizes it or not.
Spoiled by rather pedestrian conclusions, but we'll get to it in due time.
13 - roger nowosielski
Les, are you conteplating on a response or just forgot about it?
14 - Les Slater
I've been busy. I'm about to leave to look at a new car. I still do not know exactly what you're referring to. Please be more specific.
15 - roger nowosielski
I don't know how much more specific I can be. Anyways, this is the conversation I'm referring to:
We have to begin to bring much more clarity than that and especially bring it to the working class. We have to clearly distance ourselves from blaming Jews for the crimes of capitalist imperialism.
(tail end of your #258)
259 - Les Slater
Jun 02, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Not only distance ourselves but to condemn such sentiment even it does not explicitly blame Jews. The sentiment is there and it does reinforce Jew hatred. This is deadly.
260 - roger nowosielski
Jun 02, 2010 at 10:55 pm
But they're the pawns of the imperialists. It's like saying National Guardsmen did not fire at Kent State.
I appreciate your taking the high ground and identifying the true cause. It surely promotes understanding. Meanwhile, what is the plan of action as regards Israeli behavior? Should it be allowed to continue? And for how long?
It may be a long while before you will dismantle the machinery at work. So I suggest, striking at symptoms is one effective way of accomplishing the ultimate objective. And if not that way, then how?
--------------------------------------
Again, I should think further discussion of this point is desirable. Anyway, I moved this line of thought to this thread. It's more at home here.
16 - George Staropoli
I never played Dungeons & Dragons, and I think the personality classifications are informative, and can serve as a guide to moral and ethical behavior since God is dead! Scientists have made that clear long ago, and the US Supreme Court has followed along to keep God out of government. Now, with God out of government, then men have not been created equal and certainly not endowed with certain unalienable rights. And the people are not entitled to anything under the Laws of Nature and Nature's God. Government can do away with every and all rights as it sees fit.
Understanding that, then what philosophy is there to guide mankind in its endeavors? Dungeons and Dragons? The Prince's philosophy? Maybe the meditations of Emperor Marcus Aurelius? How about the classic Greek thoughts on ethics? Perhaps, more current, we should look at the down-to-earth philosophy brought to us in living color by none other than Clint Eastwood's spaghetti western anti-hero? The anti-hero does what he believes is right, as he sees it, always seems to find problems with authority figures, and has his solutions to the problems before him. Or, as it appears to apply to businessmen in general, Gordon Gecko's, "Greed is good."
How shall our politicians conduct themselves? How shall the people conduct themselves? God is dead. Now what?
17 - Mark
...what is the plan of action as regards Israeli behavior? Should it be allowed to continue?
Allowed by whom?
Build an international workers' movement. Maybe this time...
The Israeli workers need to tear down the ghetto 'walls'.
18 - roger nowosielski
The general question is - how can you correct the root problem if not striking at the symptoms.
The kind of solution you and Les are proposing may take years, which the abuses continue. Are you willing to wait that long?
And how does one uproot the evil system if not by striking at the fringes, even at manifestations thereof? That's the general question, with possible applications to the present situation.
19 - Mark
Rog, who are you thinking could/should intervene even to strike at the symptoms?
20 - roger nowosielski
Well, there aren't many options offhand. As Les was relating, the rally he attended was mostly by the activists. No working class as yet to speak of.
So do we really have a choice right now except to rely on public opinion buttressed by the international community?
21 - roger nowosielski
Another line of attack - perhaps more decisive in the long run.
To put pressure on the administration why it keeps on supporting apartheid.
Something on analogy with how South Africa was broght to its knees.
Of course, given present political climate, the Right is going to be vigorously opposed. Obama has squandered his political capital to be able to make a difference when it really counts - not that I'm arguing he'd be willing to put his butt on the line in the first place.
22 - Ruvy
...what is the plan of action as regards Israeli behavior? Should it be allowed to continue?
Allowed by whom?
...put pressure on the administration why it keeps on supporting apartheid.
The reason I take issue with Israel is not because they're worse than anyone else, but because they should be holding themselves up to a higher standard than anyone else. A nation that holds itself to be chosen by God had better strictly adhere to God's laws - including laws of morality - or that nation becomes guilty of religious hypocrisy.
Do you fools even know what you are talking about? Hey! Listen up! I'm a Jew! I'm an Israeli! I'm the guy you need to convince. And your moral hypocrisy only convinces me that you are all a pack of moral hypocrites and idiots.
You have no clue of who works here and why; you have no clue of the opinions of those of us in the working class here at all. You have no comprehension that it is precisely the bought out traitors who align themselves with your sick porno culture who are the ones who think that steers can negotiate with butchers.
Do you even realize that these bought out American traitors sent in our marines with - damned paintball guns? Before they opened fire on anybody, they were being assaulted and in danger of death!! Do you realize that you barbarians in the States would never do such a thing at all?
Remember Waco? Remember all the weddings you turned into wakes with your bombardments in Afghanistan and Iraq? Remember My Lai?
You are sick pigs who have no right at all to point a finger of blame at anybody. You never bombed the tracks leading to the death ovens in Poland, and you turned Germans into pillars of flame at Dresden.
Scum like you have no right to even open your mouths!!
The plan of action regarding Israeli behavior is this. Our bought out traitors will drag us in the mud until we kill them and drive your soldiers out of our land. Then we will stand up like men and do what is needed. And you will fall silent, because you have no clue what cleanliness in arms means, or what humanity means.
You only know moral hypocrisy, and this article, and your comments on it, are shot through with your hypocrisy. You disgust me!
And you want to convince a Jew of anything? Or do you, like the Roman savages who infested this land two thousand years ago with their damned crosses and phony little god, think that convincing a Jew is killing him and then assuming he agrees with you?
23 - Mark
We need to put pressure on our administration to shackle its dogs so that the classes in this country can work out their differences.
We need the leverage that an 'awakened' anti-imperialist (tired as that concept may be) class will provide.
24 - Mark
Mr Kossover, your behavior here is beyond the pale. I hope some personal peace comes to you.
25 - roger nowosielski
Well, in any case, Mark, Les posoted an interesting question as regards strategy.
Of course, it'd be even more difficult to mobilize such as sentiment within Israel, when most people perceive the situation in terms of self-defense.