From Desicritics, differences in American and European responses over two similar issues help separate the corn from the husk.
More than two hundred years ago, the Americans overthrew the rule of their imperial masters with a shot that was heard around the world. Racially and ethnically, they came from the same stock just a couple of generations ago but within those generations they had grown intellectually apart from their European brethren, a divide that exists even today and a divide that many people still find difficult to comprehend; hence they consider everything west of Turkey to be the “Western World” (case in point – read this article by Vir Sanghvi over the Arcelor controversy).…
Article comments
26 - Dave Nalle
Dave, thanks for implying that I ascribe qualities to people based on their opinions. That's the nicest accusation of discrimination I've ever had thrown my way.
I was merely making the point that as comments editor it's kind of wrong for you to be calling people names. How hard is it for people to stick to criticize what people write and leave their personalities out of it?
The fact that it's total nonsense and comes from such a rigid mindset as yours
Amusing. Are you always this imperceptive? I'm about as open minded a person as you're likely to encounter. Too open minded most would say.
does only so much to reduce the hurt I feel at a suggestion that goes against some of my deepest convictions. I am offended and feel like rioting in the streets and lynching Texans for this foul calumny!
Well, I see you're embracing the mindset of the new Era of Hurt Feelings.
Dave
27 - Dave Nalle
This from the same guy who in the past on BC has made fun of the size of Elizabeth Edwards' rear end...(?)
And when did she become a participant on BC? She's a public figure. There's no rule on personal attacks against them.
"The approval is an anomaly, and as such, deserves an independent revew"
Absolute rubbish. The approval was straight 'by the book' and representing it as anything else is ridiculous.
Dave
28 - RogerMDillon
"I'm about as open minded a person as you're likely to encounter. Too open minded most would say."
Hahahahaha. Can you find just one person who would say that?
29 - Dave Nalle
Roger, it depends on what you think of as open-minded. I'm open to new ideas and to being accepting of others, their choices and the great variety of life experiences. It means I'm tolerant and flexible and ever so understanding. I'm good at projecting myself into others mindsets.
On the other hand, all of that doesn't mean that I just accept things on face value or that I don't have established beliefs of my own. I'm a live and let live kind of guy, so long as you give me the same consideration.
Dave
30 - MCH
"I was merely making the point that as comments editor it's kind of wrong for you to be calling people names."
CRASH!!!
(...as Dave Nalle's glass house shatters...)
31 - Dave Nalle
MCH, last I checked I wasn't the comment editor, and haven't been calling anyone names, richly though some deserve it.
Dave
32 - Christopher Rose
Mr Nalle: the idea that you are already open-minded is one of the biggest problems that you have in actually being open-minded. Your continuing defence of that mis-perception on your part only compounds the problem. You have too many pre-determined ideas and way too much persistence in the rightness of your fixed mindset. In my opinion.
Mr. MCH: As I have already indicated, I think there is a difference between a description of somebody's attitude, behaviour or mindset and a personal attack. If you read Mr Bing's remarks in comment #10 above, I believe they do indeed display the qualities I attributed to him.
Furthermore, I have absolutely no idea who Elizabeth Edwards is, let alone why I would mock her donkey?
33 - Dave Nalle
My 'deference' to my belief that I'm open minded means thinking that not pre-judging people and ideas is a good thing, so I try to follow that rule. Your perceptions may differ, but I submit that you're far from unbiased and have repeatedly misunderstood and misrepresented my positions because of your preconceptions in the past. Like so many you assume everything about me from a couple of statements because you assume that I have to fit into some predefined stereotype that you have in your mind.
Dave
34 - Christopher Rose
Dave I'm not persuaded that you actually see the difference between bias and prejudice but for what it's worth, I believe I'm the former and you're the latter.
As to preconceptions, I'll leave that to you. I believe so very little anyway as to struggle to imagine what preconception is actually like. I just try really hard not to think that way. Or it could just be ADD, lol...
35 - Gladwyn Lewis
The Dubai Ports takeover while owned and operated under the Dubai government, is a pretence of capitalism. Many Industries namely the prominent ones here in Dubai are financed and supported extensively by the government, like Emaar Properties, Dubai Properties, etc. However the core structure of Dubai Ports Authority is yet a consortium of private investors with the backing of the ruler of Dubai. Hence a private company with a very large and deep money pocket.
Dubai has been a business hub, while rumors link it to terrorism, it is just that rumors. For a small country about half the size of New England to use its finances so wisely and reinvest it, in not only home soil but foreign soil is a smart move. France may feel the acquistion of Arcelor by a prominent Indian has its drawback or what not, but the fact is that if Bill Gates would want to takeover Arcelor there probably wouldnt be any objection.
Speculation about the chance of terrorism yet remains. Its a dire threat, but nothin that any other country would not face in any case be it that the 6 ports were acquired by a private company or by DPA. I am an American and lived and resided in Dubai for the past 15 years and I have nothing but praise for this place. It has grown by leaps and bounds and is the only Middle Eastern country where freedom of religion is not a dream. Liberalism thrives here, perhaps one of the only places in this region where conflict due to religion plays a back burner. Hats of to DPA, to them its an investment, a possibility for a rich future, not a road to destruction. Judgement on basis of location is not fair, especially for an amazing place like Dubai
36 - flex
who wrote this uter crap i bet he has never set foot in europe go start another war you bush freak
37 - Wallsy
I think all the talk about prejudice towards foreign companie, whether they be Middle Easter nor Middle American, is really a red herring of sorts. The fact of the matter is, is that the Bush Administration, and most certainly the Neocons, would deal with the Devil himslef if it whiffed or a profit. Regarding the alleged terrorist threat from the UAE, well, the Bush family have had very strong familial ties with the Saudi Kingdom for many, many years, irrespective of the alleged Saudi support for radical Islamists of the Al Qaeda ilk. I think the question we should ask is whether Bush and his cohorts actually care about preventing terrorism. It is patently obvious that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was as remote to that idea as one can come. I think we assume to much about Bush's values by placing too much importance on what he says (Bush rhetoric). It would be more prudent to look at what he does and who he supports both at home and abroad.
38 - freddie
Let us assume that Dubai is "ok," despite the fact that they were one of only 3 countries to recognize the Taliban govt. Now, to tell me we have to be this or that to be decent is nice but one question: Does Dubai recognize the state of Israel's right to exits? If not, then let us now address "fairness" as an issue.
Did you know that former Sen. Bob Dole is a lobbyist for Dubai on this deal and t hat his wife, a GOP Senator has to vote on this issue but says that one thing has nothing to do with the other? Or thgat Dubai and Arab Emerates is the bilg dumping ground for arms dealing? And where dop those arms go?
Now the real issuje forme is this: if the Dubai group is willing to wait, why not the Bush gang? And why the rush and secrecy and non-consultation on what is clearly a touchy issue? I liked the old days when the mafia ran the ports. You knew they were on the take but got the job done.
39 - happy tom
dubai is a cool place. a neutral and really rich arab country that want nothing more than to make more money. there should be no problems about this country's company taking over the ports. sure... they deal with some dodgy people (the iraqi information minister is living quite peacefull in an area of the emirates called Ajman) but who cares? as long as the government can be trusted whats the problem?
40 - Apex Blue
The Dubai Ports Fiasco.
By Chal Jamison McCollough.
Why the hell are we selling off our country if were trillions of dollars in debt??? It just doesnt make sence. France sold us the Louisianna Territory because they were "in debt" because they were fighting a war and look at how much money they lost. Worked out good for us, I aint complaining. Would we ever sell it back to France... HELL NO!!!
OK, here's a prime exapmle. Lets say that your part of a poor family and your parents own a house. They die, and your brother & sister come into possession of that house and you have to share the worth of the house equally with your siblings. The only problem is that your parents have a dept that is the current market price of the house and that debt has been burdened on their you and your siblings. Now over the coarse of all of your life, that house can generate 5 times the current market value of the house by renting it as opposed to selling it.
What do you do... do you sell the house to a another family to pay off the debt so that that family can become richer, making your family more poor, or do you keep the assets in your family?
The answer is simple. You keep the house and put your kids through school on the extra revinue. America belongs to Americans and Americas Children... Not Aribs, not British, not Chiniess, not the Free Masons, and espeshally not Natzis who are trying to cripple our country monitarily; forcing us to sell all of our industry so that it's under the iron claw of forign enities so that if, and when, they deside that were the "terrorist", they can pull all funding and cause another Black Thursday.
Imagine those comanies desiding they are going to shut down all 6 of the largest ports in america right when an invasion of America is going down. We would be crippled. What's the point of having a Department of Homeland Security when our securtity is in the hands of the British, or the Aribs. We need to have complete control of our industrial infostructure to avoid another great depression. For those of you who don't know. The Great Depression was caused right after the Roaring 20's when all of the banks(who are controlled by forign entities) and the U.S. Federal Reserve(This biggest scam in American History. The USFR is not a part of the U.S. Government but soley owned by Free Masons, and no one is allowed to know who(Source: Monopoly Men: The History of the Federal Reserve)) pulled all of the buisiness loans on Wall Street. Sortly after words, 30 billion dollars was funnaled out of our country and used to fund the Natzi War Machine(George Bush's Grandfather, Prescott Bush was one of the people behind this(a historical fact)).
This isn't the land of the free if E.U. and welthy oil barons have complete control over how much money I make and what I can spend it on. These forign entities have the ability to jack up the prices on everything so we no longer have a living wage(Dahhh, you did'nt notice). It's now the land of the oppressed, semi-slaves.
Here's another example... Lets say that I wanted to take over your country but your people were to smart for that... How would I go about doing it?
Well first off, I would take over your countries Media so that I could 1.) spreed propiganda, 2.) control the supply of information to the public, 3.) control the offical version of history & 4.) control peoples ideology through imposing a panopticon(means of social control were people are convinced that "that's just the way it is". It preys on Apathy). Then I would take over that countries education system and control the history books so that the population it under the control of the panopticon(that's just the way things are because that the way my history book said it was). Then I would take over their banking systems(the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 which was passed illegaly). Then I would get their population hooked on drugs, then illegalize those drugs by using racist propiganda, further enforcing the panopticon(i.e. Refer Madness, the film that made pot illegal because it convinced poeple that marijana would cause balck men to rape white women, and the illagization of Opium to subdue the Chiness imments. The point of this is that people know that marijuana isn't a bad substance but people just give into the governments will saying "that's just the way it is" and they get used the governments doing that. The next step is sending people to the concentration camps(jails) and people give in... Why... because "that's just the was it is". That's the law... Even though those drug offenders commited no real crime. put in the concentration camp because their a drug addict(i.e. Jew)). Then I would start taking away citizens rights, one right at a time, collecting power in the same way that Hitler did in WW2. Then I would disarming their population by illegalizing automatic machine guns, RPGs, and forcing everyone with a gun to regiter it with the "government"(to do this I would start a spree of "gang violance" and school shootings so that people hated guns and would do anything keep the "off of the streets"). Then I would get their entire Ecconomy based off of a non-renuable resource(Oil) that is going to run out. Then I would piss of the country that is supplying that resource so that when it starts running out, they no longer want to give them any(oil). Then I would stage an attack on that country(911) and blame it on the country suppling the oil to start a war between them(i.e. the assisnation of Prince Ferdinan of Austria, the blow that started WWI, and Pearl Harbor). Then I would destract their army with a war that they had to fight on multiple fronts(i.e. Afganastan, Iraq, & Iran)(this tactic worked in WW2 to beat the Natzis). Then I would was countless billions of dollars by giving unneeded/unjust tax supsidies to gready international companies, forcing that country to close their millitary bases. Then I would cripple your medical support system so that people were distracted by having to take care of the needy, and so that when the invasion comes, they wont have adiquate medical supplies). Then I would destroy your education system so that the mass majority of people can't get a higher education(i.e. dumb down the population). . Then I would start a Christian "revival" and turn your country into religous fanatics who hate the poeple and who I want to take over that country and turn that war into a holly war so that it the church takes on the roll of propiganda cirulator and millitary recruter. Then I would desensitize people to their government spying on them so that when the invasion comes, I would already have complete survailance of their communication infostruture. Then I would set up cameras at every stop light to track "traffic violaters" and record every movement of every citizen(This is already set up in Britin, America is next. You don't believe me, look it up.). Then I would make it legal for phone companies to sell peoples call lists(a log of all of the phone numbers that you have dialed and all of numbers that have called you) to the general public so my rogue forces can easily access the resistances allies(this is legal in America. Doesn't that PISS YOU OFF!!!). Then I would destract every one with a plethra of arguments on trivial matters like abortion, and freedom of the press, and force the population to deal with it(i.e. what going on in the supreme court right now). Then I would set up secret detention centers, with a compasity of 400,000 that are for "terrorist" and/or "refugees". Then I would take over all of their seaports and smuggle an army, wepeons, and supplies into their country and house them in the detention centers.
How many people did it take to take over Iraq? a country were most people have AK-47s in their home. 130,000. Bush's secret detentions centers and hold how many??? 400,000. And we trained Al CIAda and the new Iraq/Middle East war machine, and our whole army is in Iraq, including the National Guard. Then when the invasion comes... Our army get sent back home and the Middle East enters a state of civil war and then is under the sole rule of Hamas, and they have all the oil. Most people fail to realize why we want the oil. Most Americans think that we want the oil to drive our cars... foolishly wrong. The U.S. Millitary is the largest consumer of oil in the world. Most of the worlds millitary technology is dependant of oil. When the oil runs out, He who controls the oil, controls the world; and if your playing both sides of the coin, as the Free Masons did in WW2, you emerge as the dominant power in the world.
The moral of the story. It was'nt just Dick & Bush who screwed America. It is a carfully constructed kabal to start the "New World Order" George Bush Senior spoke of. Your either for us or anganst us... and if your anganst us then your a terrorist. Exuse me... Who's trying to terrorize me into killing Musslums? Who's terrorizing the collage students and the elderly by cutting their funding. Who's terrorizing the enviroment. Who's been terrorizing the pot heads. Who's been terrozing South America. Who terrorized the Russians into starting a Cold War. Who's terrizing the Musslems? Their just fighting back because they have been attacked, they were forced to. At this point in time... The terror is being propigated by those who are controlling the panopticon, and those who are keeping silent about it. What if I'm anganst both of you. Then the muslums would back me and you would still be terrorizing me into fighting you. It's clear who the real terrorst are.
41 - Vostok
Typical american propaganda.
42 - Dave Nalle
Did you know that former Sen. Bob Dole is a lobbyist for Dubai on this deal
Well, if Bob's for it I have absolute confidence that it's legit.
Now the real issuje forme is this: if the Dubai group is willing to wait, why not the Bush gang? And why the rush and secrecy and non-consultation on what is clearly a touchy issue?
What rush? It already went through the standard review period and there was no secrecy at all. It's just that no one was interested because it was a routine business transaction which only became an issue when partisan politics became involved.
I liked the old days when the mafia ran the ports. You knew they were on the take but got the job done.
The mafia still runs the ports and will continue to do so after DP World takes over the freight terminals.
Dave
43 - JR
Couldn't even be arsed reading all the comments. The europeans also created the country known as the USA. I would ask you, sir, to get down off your high horse, and cease your attempt of one-up-manship on us europeans. Likewise, I would like to ask my fellow europeans to quit these ridiculous attempts of making yourselves look better than the americans. Both unions have and cause their own problems, and the amount to be gained from pointing them out is very slight. Rather than pointing out the bad points of the "opposition" administration, why not work on sorting out your own administration? God knows both american and european governments need it.
44 - tomy2tums
erm, unless I read it wrongly, then it is the opposite than what is in the news!
Also, how can the writer talk about any European country being bigoted and racist, after all it has been the American foreign policy that has got the world into the sorry state for the past 5 years
45 - hotblack
This article is idiotic. Bush is handing over ports to a company from a country where 2 9/11 hijackers came from. Send troops to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 instead of protecting country. Can we get any brighter?
46 - Victor Plenty
No country had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. The crazies who carried out those attacks were not acting on orders from any government. They were criminals, not soldiers.
Blaming the United Arab Emirates for the actions of the 9/11 attackers is just like blaming the United States government and all its citizens for the terrorist bombing carried out by Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City.
(In case you haven't figured it out: yes, the similarity between the two is bigotry.)
47 - Nemo
There is a massive problem with that article.
The American ports were run by a European compay called P and O. The European company was purchased by Dubai Ports. Hence in addition to running American operations Dubia ports now has a major presence in Europe. Response in Europe...... nothing. Response in USA......anti-Arab bigotry.
The facts tell a different story to the one told by Aaman Lamba.
48 - Dave Nalle
Good point, Nemo. Except that there's only a small faction here in America who take exception to this deal, and they're all basically doing it for political reasons - trying to advance themselves by scaremongering and blowing a nothing issue into a controversy. It's despicable.
Dave
49 - Froztwolf
Woa! Where did that europe bashing in the end come from and how does it tie in to the article?
We are to be judged because we have bad things in our history??? Well at least we HAVE history :Þ
50 - matey101
The two steel companies have nothing to do with the american ports, the reason it didnt go though was due to profits, and how much each company thought the one receieving the hostile bid was worth/how much it will be worth in the future.
The europeans have all the bad stuff in our history...because funnily enough we've been here for a long time in the world, not just the last 100-200 years. I wonder why so many countries complain about USA if theres nothing to complain about, well i guess we'll never know....
51 - Nemo
Dave, a tiny fraction?
About 30% if this board is representative of the whole of the USA. And I for one have no doubt that it is.
Anyway.
I wasn't making a claim about the quantity of bigotry, or whatever, in the USA. I was pointing out that the article at the top was plain wrong becuase the deal with Dubai world ports took place in Europe just as much as it took place in the USA, and wether 0.3, 3 or 30% of americans were unreasonably troubled by it the number of europeans with the same response was far fewer.
52 - MCH
"Mr. MCH: As I have already indicated, I think there is a difference between a description of somebody's attitude, behaviour or mindset and a personal attack. If you read Mr Bing's remarks in comment #10 above, I believe they do indeed display the qualities I attributed to him.
Furthermore, I have absolutely no idea who Elizabeth Edwards is, let alone why I would mock her donkey?"
- Christopher Rose
Christopher, I was not addressing you; I was referring to the hypocrisy in comments #14 and #26.