Short answer, no, but there are still some disturbing, unanswered questions. Long answer, read on.
Former Drug Czar and long-time Republican presidential appointee Bill Bennett is a lot of things. Here's Brad DeLong's laundry list:Bill Bennett is a hypocrite, a loathsome fungus on the tree of American politics, a man who has worked unceasingly to make America a worse place—when he's not publishing the work of others under his own name, or rolling the dice at Las Vegas while claiming that America's poor would be rich if only they had the righteousness and moral fiber than he does.…
Article comments
26 - chip
Wouldn't aborting any race drop the crime rate?
of course it's a completely immoral and senseless thing to do, Bennet himself was in no way in favor of doing so. But is what he said true or false?
27 - MCH
"bill bennett...did absolutely nothing wrong...He merely engaged in a politically-incorrect (but true) hypothetical."
- Bobby (RJ) Elliott
Look, Bobby, that's about as absurd as saying that had your parents aborted you, there'd be one less Chickenhawk clucking around...
28 - RJ
"in total context, one can safely assume that he thinks the bulk of crime in this country is perpetrated by blacks..."
Actually, no, one cannot assume that.
One can only assume that Bennett believes (correctly) that blacks commit crimes on a higher per-capita basis than other races.
So, he was spot-on. Look up the FBI's UCR sometime...
29 - weslry nwene
1Potato [edited], black people don't need Conservatism to be successful. One way is to watch out for people like 1Potato and bill bennett. Conservatism is a for White mainly male republican to act and live in America. It was built without black or other minorities input. Where are the native american indians did Conservatism help them being slaughted.
30 - Bob A. Booey
If you were to take this fascist eugenics hypothetical to its logical conclusion, no, it wouldn't reduce crime.
You eliminate all black babies. No new generations of black people. So who becomes the poor and the targets of economic discrimination? Whoever else has most recently faced economic discrimination -- Hispanics, Asians, maybe even recent European immigrants or Jews. Suddenly, we'd have a society talking about "criminal" Italian and Irish immigrants again.
Unless you assume there's something about black people (as a result of their genetics or culture) that's UNIQUELY criminal, it's not even a TRUE counter-factual.
And Levitt's response adequately addresses the silly race-crime linkage independent of economics and poverty.
That is all.
31 - 1Potato
How did we get from blacks and conservatism to Indians being slaughtered?
As for Bob A Booey, what do you need a "study" for? Even Bill Cosby acknowleges cultural problems in the black community. He should know, he is black, American, a good 65 years old, and a genius. I think I will listen to Bill Cosby before a guy named after Howard Stern's sidekick (Stern, who many blacks think is racist, btw).
1P
32 - Bob A. Booey
Is that really the best you can do?
Do a search, Mr. Potatohead, and look up the thread on Cosby and race for my thoughts and why you can't possibly expect to make that argument.
Then come back with that weak sauce.
That is all.
33 - Anthony Grande
"You eliminate all black babies. No new generations of black people."
You can't say the same if you elimated all homosexuals. Society would create more.
"So who becomes the poor and the targets of economic discrimination? Whoever else has most recently faced economic discrimination -- Hispanics, Asians, maybe even recent European immigrants or Jews. Suddenly, we'd have a society talking about "criminal" Italian and Irish immigrants again."
Blacks were being oppressed at the same time as Italians and Irish. The Italians and Irish eventually intergrated into society, blacks did not. Currently the Hispanics and blacks are the poor oppressed, but Hispanics are slowly intergrating into society just like the Italians and Irish, but the blacks are staying right where they are.
It is because of the lack of true black leaders. Cosby would make a great black leader, but people like Jesse Jackson and Sharpton have the black masses calling Cosby a racist. The problem is that they are being oppressed by their own leaders.
And why are we even talking about "if black babies were killed". Bennett's words were taken out of context, no one wants us to elimate black babies.
The conservatives don't want to elimanate black babies because that is barbaric and unAmerican.
The liberals don't want to eliminate black babies because then who would vote for them???
34 - diana hartman
One can only assume that Bennett believes (correctly) that blacks commit crimes on a higher per-capita basis than other races.
So, he was spot-on. Look up the FBI's UCR sometime...
bennett asserts that his comments were about reducing the crime rate, not the black crime rate, and his defenders agree; in fact he didn't mention the black crime rate at all, just the crime rate...why would a man of his intelligence, reputation, and education neglect to clarify that he was talking about the per captia black crime rate rather than the crime rate when asserting even a hypothetical reduction of the latter?
i would assert this is because his comments were based on his perception of the crime rate rather than the reality of it...
as has been noted, aborting any sector of the population would reduce the crime rate so why did he focus on black babies rather than all babies when hypothetically asserting a reduction for the crime rate?
his comment about the crime rate didn't focus on the group of people with the greatest number of criminals but rather the group he associates with the greatest number of criminals...
now go back and read the rest of the fbi's ucr...while the percentage of blacks committing crimes exceeds the percentage of whites committing crimes, the majority of crimes are commited by whites, not blacks...bennett's hypothetical reduction of the crime rate doesn't fly because the bulk of the crime rate is still white, not black...if we're to believe bennnett and his defenders that he was talking about the crime rate then why didn't he suggest aborting the babies of the crime rate's largest contributor? again, i would assert his comment was based on his perception and not reality, and that his perception, born of ignorance despite his impressive resume, is racist...
remember, because this is important, bennett himself and his defenders insist that his comments were about the crime rate, not the black crime rate and we can lean toward believing this because he never mentioned the black crime rate...as such, per-captia statistics are moot because bennett himself asserts he was talking about the overall crime rate, not the more specific black crime rate...
plucking one statistical cell from the fbi's ucr to substantiate a comment such as bennett's is feeble at best...in reality, the chance of being the victim of a white criminal is greater than the chance of being the victim of a black criminal...additionally, considerably more white collar crimes are perpetrated by whites than blacks so that taking yourself off the street doesn't help...
face it, bennett is intelligent, reputable, educated -- and racist...
35 - Maxwell
Hartman,
Obviously you don’t “feel better” by working yourself into a sweat by reading between the lines. And by “reading between the lines” I mean not reading at all.
Hartman: Bennett didn't say "every baby", he said "every black baby"...
that's what Bennett said, not my interpretation of what Bennett said...
The phrase “every black baby” doesn’t make Bennett a racist. That is your interpretation. The statement is factual. How can a factually statement be considered racist? Less blacks, less crime. Eating less chocolate (vanilla or strawberry) ice cream less fat in your diet.
Bennett said, “…abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.”
Now when I got this far in Bennett’s commentary I assumed there was some underline reason he singled one group of people. But only someone with RACE on the brain would think his comments were that of a racist. Has race become such a social TABOO that the mere mention of it makes that person a racist?
It is would take a remarkably ignorant and basis person to conclude racism from these comments. Some people are beyond critical thought. They will forgo “active reading”"missing what was really said"and when their minds falls victim to rage or boredom they will add reasoning that was never intended by the author.
The issue was abortion. Babies can’t be aborted. They can be killed or eaten (according to Jonathan Swift or the “Pro-choice crowd”), but they can’t be aborted. A scoop of chocolate ice cream has more value than an unborn black baby to them, for:
(1) Chocolate ice cream tastes better
(2) You can buy and sell chocolate ice cream
(3) It is easier to rid yourself of chocolate ice cream
(4) Chocolate ice cream can’t commit a crime
Bennett values black babies more than the Pro-choice crowd, but he is the racist. How deluded do you have to be to think that?
36 - diana hartman
The phrase “every black baby” doesn’t make Bennett a racist.
i didn't say it did...
I assumed there was some underline reason he singled one group of people.
you don't say what you think the reason was for his singling out one group...what do you think was the reason?
37 - Maxwell
Blackwell,
Blackwell: Maybe you need more schoolin'
OH, Blackwell the Great. There is a difference between “reading into things” and clouding what you are reading with your own prejudices.
Someone makes an “educated guess” in the realm of the sciences of math and medicine. You, Blackwell, have over stepped the bounds of logic. How is it possible to guess what someone is thinking?
How were you going to prove your own theory?
Your guesses have carried you away. “reduction ad absurdum”. A little latin and here we are name calling and acting all superior. I guess I didn’t take that course when I was college that gave me the abilities to delve into someone’s soul.
Your “educated guesses” and “labels” are the stuff racism is made of.
38 - Maxwell
Hartman,
“…every black baby…”
Ever time “white or black” is used in any context I “assume all over the place”. But I do my best not to form any prejudices, because I know nobody is free from their prejudices.
I wasn’t listening to Bennett’s radio program that day, but I heard the soundbite and read the comments he made afterwards. Even when I take these comments with a few grains of salt I cannot condemn him as a racist as you have:
“…face it, bennett is intelligent, reputable, educated -- and racist...”
I am not aware of any past racist actions. Bennett claims his past actions have been beneficial to the black community. He does have black fans and defends. I heard it say that Bennett defenders are racist because he is racist. I have also heard it said Bennett cannot advocate morals because he gambled a lot of money. And because Bennett knows Rush Limbaugh, who abuses drugs, he is amoral and therefore a racist.
I am not willing to make “educated guesses” like these.
Honestly I don’t know the reason he singling out one group (he was answering a question on the fly here). Obviously there are prejudices surrounding Blacks and Crime. Bennett obviously knows this. Sometimes the answer speaks louder than the question. Bennett did say this was an impossible question, then he answered it and others judge the answer of this impossible question instead of addressing the underline question.
Which is: Is Abortion the answer?
Bennett is being attacked because he has oppose a brainy question that houses three hot topics: (1) race (2) crime (3) abortion
“Racist” is a loaded word"one of many deadly weapons. Even “Love” can sting when it is used carelessly.
39 - Pete Blackwell
Bennett was implying a specific link between blacks and crime. That's not even an educated guess. It's blindingly obvious. It is also, as has been pointed out amply above, an ignorant, simplistic thing to say. I didn't call Bennett a racist. I will call him ignorant and simplistic on this issue"particularly in that he was trying to point out the simplicity in someone else's argument with his ill-chosen example.
I never said I was great or anyhing like that. I merely think you're being credulous if you think Bennett's intentions were purely innocent.
40 - Bob A. Booey
Does anyone find these completely illogical ice cream analogies cute in a kindergarten kind of way? It's like when you talk to a little kid who's not quite concrete yet in their reasoning who tries to explain things to you that you know don't make sense in their own language.
That is all.
41 - diana hartman
Does anyone find these completely illogical ice cream analogies cute in a kindergarten kind of way?
are you at least understanding them? cos i'm not that far into it...
i'm a good ten years out from having to listen to kindergarten analogies and frankly i don't want to have to revisit those skills in an effort to understand a grown person...
42 - Bob A. Booey
No, they're completely nonsensical, which makes it even funnier since it's attempting to be informal logic.
If only we could just melt racism like ice cream and be one runny pool of melted ice cream flavors together.
That is all.
43 - Maxwell
What do you mean by “innocent”? Did Bennett have some sort of dark purpose? And there is no need to read into anything he said, because he has responded to the criticisms. And there are links between blacks and crime. But why does what you think Bennett is implying overshadow what Bennett is saying?
You are NOT addressing the issue Bennett was discussing. You are caught up in the example.
I said: Your “educated guesses” and “labels” are the stuff racism is made of.
I didn’t say you called Bennett a racist.
Maybe you are the one being “ignorant”? Is it on purpose?
Complicating simple things doesn’t make someone intelligent.
So you gone back on the “educated guesses”, now it is “blindingly obvious”. It is blindingly obvious what he was implying. Do you even know that Latin phrase mean. You are not even agreeing with yourself.
44 - Natalie Davis
I don't know if Bill Bennett is a racist. I don't care about the hues of those who commit crimes and, frankly, I do not believe in the concept of race. I believe the comment denotes something sick resides within Bennett's soul, but I have had that opinion for years. The thing really getting to me is that Bennett is being described as reputable. Reputable? Bill Bennett? Book of Values Gambling Man? Rush Limbaugh's good buddy? It is to vomit.
45 - Maxwell
Booey: “they're completely nonsensical”
You don’t like the ice cream, but it is more to the point of what Bennett was saying.
Ice cream is worth something. An aborted baby is worth nothing. I don’t know how it is possible to melt racism when it is hard frozen in some people’s minds, Booey.
Blackwell’s original post is attempting to play both sides. He is half a step from calling Bennett a racist. This post was originally title: “Bill Bennett, Genocidaire?” He called the caller a NUT. Is Bennett a “NUT” too? Are we forgetting Bennett is Pro-Choice?
You know what is funny, Booey? It is funny to see a post calling Bennett’s comments “disgusting, racist and inexcusable”, but passing no judgment about the “context that is rarely fleshed out in news reports”.
Another thing is really funny is seeing racism and ignorance when it isn’t there. It is not possible to not think of something.
It makes perfect sense why you would think what I wrote is nonsensical. If it made sense to you then it wouldn’t be nonsensical and this entire issues would simply evaporate.
46 - Maxwell
"Reputable? Bill Bennett? Book of Values Gambling Man? Rush Limbaugh's good buddy? It is to vomit."
Case in point.
Another “educated guess”"sorry"“blindly obvious” conclusion; why didn’t I take that soul reading course when I was in college? Maybe Blackwell was right? Maybe I need more schoolin'?
47 - Natalie Davis
Perhaps, Mr. Maxwell. There is much for all of us to learn.
As for the Gambling Man's soul... he is in a conversation... he has the entire world of reprehensible hypotheticals from which to choose and he leaps to conflating aborting "black" babies with crime reduction. Seems to me that the idea must have been residing within him, given his apparent ease with accessing the thought and making it audible.
Again, I don't know if Bennett is "racist," but given his unfortunate semantic choice, surely you can't be surprised that people would wonder. It is my opinion that someone who even could conceive of such a thing -- even Bennett called it immoral -- must have something sick and foul living within him or her. Such a thing would never occur to a decent human.
48 - Pete Blackwell
I don't try to play both sides in my original post. It was a response to the over-the-top response that his comments got from the left. As is "blindingly obvious," I don't think he's a Genocidaire. Let's take a look at the title and abstract of the Blogcritics version.
Title: Does Bill Bennett Advocate Aborting Black Babies to Reduce Crime?
Abstract: Short answer, no, but there are still some disturbing, unanswered questions. Long answer, read on.
The unanswered questions I refer to come from the underlying assumptions of his chosen example. I believe it was a very poor choice and it is revealing of the way he views black people.
The Latin phrase I used was not to be fancy-schmancy. It's simply the term used in formal logic to describe what he was trying to do. He was taking his caller's argument and reducing it to absurdity to show that it doesn't make sense.
His point: you can't look at economics only in terms of abortion. It's absurd. But, he turns around and makes a claim that comes (at least) dangerously close to doing the same thing for race and crime. Not his finest moment, and, also not his worst, which was the whole point of my original post.
49 - 1Potato
B. Booey:
When you apply for jobs, do you tell them you are retarded?
1P
50 - Anthony Grande
1P, I thought he was a little weird, but I wasn't sure.
51 - Lono
It just keeps getting better. Every day a Republican implodes. Why, just in the last week we have this Bennet comment, TWO DeLay indictments, and the Frist investigation for insider trading.
Oh, and Judy Miller is rolling over on Karl Rove about now too.
It's a good day to be a Democrat. Oh, and I told you so.
52 - Anthony Grande
If you are happy about little liberal lies like these then it is obvious that you haven't been happy for a long time.
The DemocRatic Party is the party of negativity. They only talk and bring down instead of moving forward.
This is why the DemocRats are going to fall flat on the faces in 06. Mark my words.
I will be saying I told you so.
P.S. Nice copy and pasting
53 - Maxwell
Blackwell,
If Bennett is being absurd then what is the problem? I say something absurd. I say that absurdity is wrong. Why are there “some disturbing, unanswered questions”? Must I believe something that is absurd just because I said it? If you believe in the logical argument then why are you discounting it? Is it too simplistic?
And I don’t agree that Bennett was reducing the caller’s argument to absurdity. Bennett simply didn’t agree. The caller was referencing a book, which is not simplistic, called “Freakonomics”. Bennett only said the caller’s conclusion was too complex (that NUT) and there were too many variables. Bennett thought it wasn’t a valid support for the Pro-Life cause. Abortion was the issue, not Economics. Economics was only the angle the caller was using to support the Pro-Life cause. Bennett doesn’t support abortion. But he said the crime rate would drop if black babies were aborted. Crime can’t exist in a vacuum. No people, no crime. That is a clear and sound argument.
He was addressing the book, the book “Freakonomics”. If he were implying anything about blacks it would be regarding: (1) drugs (2) education (3) single mothers/broken families. None of these are surprise and it a good thing to address the reason for crime.
This would be the middle ground. If you understand the logic argument then again, “What is the problem”?
54 - Pete Blackwell
First of all, the caller starts in with an economic argument:
Second of all, nowhere in the transcript that I read does Bennett say the caller's ideas are too complex. The issue of the solvency of Social Security is certainly too complex to be seen only in terms of abortion. You have it backwards.Bennett is, by definition, attempting a reductio ad absurdum argument. He takes the caller's logic and then applies it to a different situation to show that it is, in Bennett's own words, "an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do." That's the dictionary definition.
Clearly, as was the whole point of my post, Bennett does not believe that we should abort black babies to reduce the crime rate. He rejects this not because it wouldn't, in his mind, work, but because it is a morally repugnant idea. Points for Bennett there.
The fact that strikes me is that Bennett rejects the morality but not the efficacy of the genocide solution. He is still making the connection between blacks and crime. This is not the part that he thinks is absurd. It is that part, which rejects the complexity of the crime problem in what I see as a naive way, that I have an issue with.
55 - RJ
"as has been noted, aborting any sector of the population would reduce the crime rate"
This is simply not true.
Crime "rate" does not mean "total crimes committed." It is a per-capita ratio.
IOW, if Population A commits crimes at a 1-per-1000 rate, and Population B commits crimes at a 3-1000 rate, than making Population B "disappear" would reduce the overall crime rate, all else being equal.
Of course, Bennett does not support this. So this is a phony "scandal"...
56 - RJ
"Are we forgetting Bennett is Pro-Choice?"
He is???
57 - Maxwell
Blackwell: Second of all, nowhere in the transcript that I read does Bennett say the caller's ideas are too complex. The issue of the solvency of Social Security is certainly too complex to be seen only in terms of abortion. You have it backwards.
Bennett didn’t say they were too simplistic either. Media Matters doesn’t show the entire conversation between Bennett and this caller.
At the end of the conversation Bennett said the caller’s question was thoughtful and interesting.
If you want to get technical Bennett and the caller were taking about other people’s ideas. The caller posed a question someone else has made in a news article and Bennett was referencing a mainstream book. Crime and Abortion is a question the book raised. The book (I am using an educated guess here) Bennett was reading showed a relationship where the crime rate was down and abortion was up.
P.S. You say the issue of “Solvency of Social Security” is too complex to be seen only in terms of abortion. I agree “ONLY” because you used the word “ONLY”. But how do you solve something that is complex? I would first examine its simplistic parts. But abortion is not simplistic. Wouldn’t you say that abortion is complex? How can something complex be simple? A computer program is complex. A line of code is simple. But change just one line of code and that program could crash.
58 - Maxwell
Blackwell,
Genocide? Bennett said it was impossible. Impossible solutions don’t work. And abortion is not genocide. An abortion anything is meaningless, it never matter anyway.
Are you saying genocide isn’t efficient? The Nazis were very systematic and organized. Killing is always efficient, but not always moral. To deny the efficacy of genocide is the belief of the naïve.
Your problem with Bennett is the naïve way he has rejected the complexity of the crime problem. That is only your perception. If you are only going to take in the last couple of minutes of a three hour show and analysis that I guess you would be left with all sorts of assumptions (educated or otherwise).
P.S. I saw the Amazon link to a book Bennett wrote on top of this page. I am guessing others have done the same thing. I’ve been reading some of the more recent reviews of his book. I wonder if someone here wrote “I think it would be funny it Bennett died of Cancer.”
59 - Bob A. Booey
Is that the best you can do, 1Potato?
Calling me names because you can't win an argument with me? If I'm "retarded," you really should examine your own level of intellect since you can't appear to make a single defensible argument.
That is all.
60 - Annie B.
I may be one of the few who's discovered this, but FREAKONOMICS book author Steven Levitt stated essentially the same racist theory Bennett cited and condemned, in 2 published research papers, and after substituting cleansed phrases for the racist phrases (but not altering their meaning), he then turned it INTO that bestselling book Freakonomics? Levitt actually quoted other studies in writing as part of his reason for his conclusions that "African-Americans" are among those "most at risk to give birth to children who would engage in criminal activity."
Sounds just like what Bennett was referring to, doesn't it?
Yet Levitt makes millions and gets glory while Bennett is tarred and feathered.
Both Levitt and Bennett are wrong to believe the theory is even true, of course (because it hasn't been proven and probably can never be), but I asked our readers and some of the media directly (like the top dogs at AP, Mensah Dean of The Philly Daily News and Robert Steinback of The Miami Herald), why only take Bennett to task? I am sure 99.99999% of America doesn't but should know the truth about Levitt's racist/eugenicist foundations (from 1991 to 2001).
I uncovered this when writing an online, 5-part expose about the "abortion lowers crime" myth (not my word, but what one of 5 Ph.D. criminologists from the likes of UPENN and Carnegie Mellon called it).
I have a much-shortened excerpt of the lengthy series that is pertinent to the proof points mentioned above, if anyone wants to email me so I don't clog up the comments here.
Or you can read the full series, just up this week, ironically, though I've been researching it for a month: links are here: http://afterabortion.blogspot.com/2005/10/crime-also-how-five-renowned-ph.html
61 - Frank
The guy is only telling the truth, and you liberal types cannot pull your heads out of your as... to see. Blacks have completly isolated them selves from others in this country. First, I find it rediclous that MOST (not all) cannot speak proper english and have made up their own fake accent that sound completly stupid! I work with this black women who I have to constatly correct her on her grammer. What the F... is "aksk"??? I have to remind her we do not speak EBONICS and it will only make others think you are stupid. She does agree and is working to get rid of her fake accent.
To people who say that poverty causes crime, all I have to say is bullshit! Look at poor whites in Kentucky, Georgia, Mississippi, they do not go around killing each other at astoshing rates???? Society is soooooo tired of hearing excuses for this race of people! They need to get their shit together or get out of MY country!
62 - Christopher Rose
Frank, setting aside the general ignorance and racism your comment reveals, if you want to pick on people for their language skills, you might want to make sure your own use of the language is more adept than you show above...
63 - STM
Frank, you appear to be ranting and gibbering.
Signed, liberal with head up asshole
64 - Sarah
Bill Bennett is pro life. You all should look at the Maafa 21, which outlines how Planned Parent Hood and the rest of the Pro Choice movement advocate killing black babies. The number one killer of blacks in America is abortion.