There is a country which is trying its best to produce thousands of Osamas.
...From superpower-in-waiting India, silly!…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Do You Know Where The Next Bin Laden Is Coming From? - Comments Page 2
There is a country which is trying its best to produce thousands of Osamas.
...From superpower-in-waiting India, silly!…
Article comments
26 - Mayank Austen Soofi
Ramayana is a myth and legend, Apollo? An equivalent to Illiyad of the western civilization??
Hey the legend of Lord Rama came out from Ramayana. Babri mosque in Ayodhya was believed to be built by Muslims on the ruins of a Rama temple, where Lord Rama was supposed to be born. Many of us Hidnus destroyed that mosque to salvage our religion's pride. This destruction of a mosque resulted in the most horrific Hindu-Muslim riots in the history of India. Thousands of Indians were killed. One of the major causes of Hindu-Muslim conflict derives from this tale of Rama only which you dismisses as a mere piece of literature.
27 - Apollo
gazelle #22
Well let me answer u r question this way.
If i ever throw a book at u. it will not be a Bhagvadgita or any other religious scriptures
but books such as
1) Electrical sciences by Mc-Graw Hill or
2) Unix network programming by Richard stevens or
3) 2001: A space odyssey
Hope that answers ur questions. :)
28 - Apollo
Mayank #26
Have u read the ramayana or the illiad.
Why did Lord Rama go to war against Lanka? and
Why did the Greeks go to war against Troy?
Ans - they were provoked by a hostile action of the enemy.
SO can u see the idiocy in ur logic by now? if u haven't i feel sorry for u.
29 - kishore
I still dont understand why the world is not able to get the simple point that Pakistan's ISI has generated these terrorists, for subversive activities, and whatever be the justifications, it is immaterial. ISI is even more powerful and autonomous than CIA, it is even more secretive. Only we intellectual people keep thinking about "root Causes", "Atrocities", "Injustices" whereas it is very well known that in USA, there is none, except in a few occassional separate incidents, in UK, there are hardly any and in India, it happens to every one every time. So there are no "Root Causes", "Atrocities", or "injustices", it is a simple formula of taking the revenge and showing the subversive capabilities of ISI of Pakistan.
30 - pleasexcusetheinteruption12
Well I guess there is no hope for the Muslims. All they want to do is kill us. Lets stop procrastinating and just kill them all off now. Then all are problems will be gone. Yipee!
31 - thampuran
Indian president is a musalman, top film stars are muslims, richest man is a muslim. but majority of muslims are poverty stricken........ thus goes mayanks observation. if you are from poverty community are you legally permitted to blast bombs on all and sundry? twin towers in america was destroyed beacause of poverty stricken muslims? no for other reason. bombs exploded in british rail stations because of poor muslims? no for other reason. years back bombay blasts occured killing thousands because of babri masjid. last time mumbai blasts happened for what? for aazaad kashmir? or for some other reasons? to violence crowded minds reasons will come all the time. one or other. justifying violence is strange because every side will have justifications to do violent acts. also what is the position of hindus in pakistan? or in bangladesh? are they leading a happy life ther?
32 - Nancy
Groups who fancy themselves oppressed or disadvantaged have gotten into the bad habit of blaming everyone & everything else except themselves for their situation. If Muslims want to get on in the world, first they have to stop sending their kids to the primitive madrissas & enroll them in REAL schools. Face it: no one is going to pay anyone big bucks for being able to spout the Koran and nothing else. Like it or not, if they want to succeed, they've got to learn how to get along by the rules of the rest of the world, & not just by the rules of their own particular cultural ghettos. The ONLY ones responsible for their future successes of failures are the Muslims themselves; if they aren't willing to join the 21st century, they're going to remain in poverty in the 8th.
33 - Apollo
Well said Nancy #32. exactly my views
34 - kishore
I still think the root cause is not yet understood, the root cause is not Poverty, it is not Madrassas, it is not Islam either. The root cause is the ISI of Pakistan, as they are taking the revenge against USA for having used it for Afghan War in 80's and left it once they achieved their goals. They are the people who are educating the Osama Bin Laden, otherwise, how can a Cave Man know about USA, the WTC, or Pentagon, They are using OBL as a surrogate. ISI is protecting him, They are the people who are selling the Nuclear Technology to the Muslim world and all those who have reason to hate USA. No wonder if they use some other Osama to make a Nuclear 9/11 in USA homeland. They have every reason to do the subversion, with prompt denials. They are the culprits, not Muslims, not Madrassas, not the "Injustices" not the "Atrocities" not the "Islam". Westerners can't understand as they are not informed by CIA. CIA knows what ISI is capable of doing. That is why they are asking Bush to give some F-16's, some 5 Billion $'s etc., as a ransom, for checking the Pakistani ISI. It is all a secret game.ISI is the most admirable "intelligence Agency" of the world. You will never know the true reason, untill you understand their game plan. Subversion always helps, whether it is CIA or ISI or KGB or Mossad or Iranian Intelligence or MI
35 - Nancy
The madrissahs don't help. It would be the same for schools of any other religion: kids who went to a school that only taught them the Christian bible (and there are a few of those around) aren't going to get by very well in the modern world, either, unless they incorporate as well a good, broad platform of "regular" classes in math, science, literature, etc. ... and frankly, most madrissahs are piss-poor, primitive affairs, indeed. They have a bad rep for a reason, in that they are taught by near-illiterates, and they only teach one subject, and that (usually) very badly, with little or no understanding of the theology involved, etc.
American blacks are in the same situation: in order to further themselves, as Bill Cosby recently pointed out: they've got to stop blaming everybody else & buckle down to ensuring their kids go to schools and LEARN for all they're worth; and they may need to fight for decent schools as well, while they're at it, but until they themselves make an effort, nothing is going to happen. No one can sit around and have someone come along and pour knowledge into your head. You & only you are responsible for your success or failure, in that regard. I've noticed that throughout the world, those that really, Really, REALLY want an education manage to get one, even if they have no paper, no books, no schools - like Abe Lincoln or Washington Carver.
At any rate, as I said in the earlier posting, those that won't join the 21st century are condemned to remain in the 8th. It's up to them, not the rest of the world.
36 - Nancy
The root cause is very understood: poverty stems from ignorance. Sometimes from laziness or sheer bad luck, but most often from ignorance: no one is going to give a good job to someone who is functionally illiterate. If you want to make a life in today's world, you MUST know more than how to parrot Koranic (or bible) verses. Madrissahs could be decent schools, IF they instituted curriculums such as those of yeshivas or most christian schools, all of which teach secular subjects as well as strictly religious items...but they won't, thanks to the ignorance of the virtual illiterates who teach in them, and the thirst for power over their congregations that characterize the vast majority of the imams, most of whom are not too much more educated (except in violence & muslim bigotry), either. I understand there are a few - a very few - madrissahs in Egypt that are cream of the crop in that they have the religious classes, but they also have a rigorous secular curriculum, and turn out students capable of succeeding anywhere, in any capacity. But most madrissahs are a far cry from that, and willfully so, more's the pity, because in a sense they are their students' worst enemies.
In any event, success or failure still lies with muslims themselves, not with the rest of the world. It's up to them to come up to snuff; if they don't, or won't, or can't ... don't blame everyone else. Again, if you won't join the 21st century, you're condemned to live in the 8th.
37 - SwayaM
"Sadly, these secular parties have done nothing to lift Muslims from their pothole of primitive madrasa education and abject poverty. They treat Muslims as mere vote banks."
- Muslims already enjoy so many privileges as members of a minority community - if they can't lift themselves out of primitive madrasa education and abject poverty unlike other minority communities, they need to introspect - the special treatment reinforces the tendencies of their religion that keep them backward. If Hindus enjoyed the same priveleges in the spirit of secularism, they would be marrying multiple partners, burning their widows, getting their kids married at 12, and basically doing all that would keep them backward and poor too.
"If you are a Muslim, no matter how much money you have, you will find it difficult to rent a flat in any respectable middle-class locality. A Muslim in an otherwise-cosmopolitan Mumbai is bound to end up in a ghetto. The story repeats itself in cities like Delhi, too."
- Again subjective! I personally know of several well to do muslims living in the poshest areas of delhi and mumbai. And I am not even taking of Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan, Salman Khan and several of the who's who of Bollywood, all muslims. As for those who live in ghettos, it is a human tendency to stick with similar neighbors. It happens not just between hindus and muslims but among hindus and muslims themselves too. Bengalis will stick together, sunnis will stick together. Even here, in the land of the free, whites will stick together and so will blacks...
"Muslims are generally deemed by a majority of Hindus as minorities in bigoted nations are usually considered to be: unclean, uneducated, and unpatriotic. But if anyone in the community tries to get himself out from this cliché, he is quickly dumped back to his old place."
- Again subjective! I wonder how the Shahrukh Khans, Dilip Kumars, Saira Banos, Madhubalas, Abul Kalam Azads, Sania Mirzas, Azharuddins and the list is endless..... made it to the pinnacle of success.
Indian spirit, if vaporized down to its essence, consists of four essentials: Politics, Bollywood, cricket and Hindu-Muslim riots. - what the heck? are you comparing riots to past-times?
Could you find no better source than the magazine which cannot even be relied to be accurate about its own country, USA?
Or maybe the worst tragedy to have befallen India was its partition? So that the Muslims of undivided India could have their own homeland, India paid with its own blood and land? (A land in which lived a majority of Hindus, who had lived here forever, the cradle of their faith and the land of their ancestors as old as human civilization had to give up a part of their holy land.) And still, the remaining part of India remained, true to the tenets of the secularism of Hinduism, a secular nation. When in all fairness, it could have become a Hindu country.
Lesson of the story should be: In India, you can grant Muslims all the privileges that are not granted to the Hindus and they can rise to the highest position as the country's President. But that is not enough, because if they are poor and religious and in the spirit of their muslim brotherhood kill the kafirs, that is okay too. After all, it is their religious duty to so. And if they are poor, it is the govt's fault, stupid!
Yes the British authorities introspected and found what we in India have know all along. And there is nothing that the rest of us or the govts of India, or for that matter Britain can do about it. The introspection has to come from among Muslims themselves. There are a lot of poor, illiterate people of all faiths in this world but not all resort to terrorism.
Nobody doubts that Indian Muslims are capable of tapping into the global mulsim terrorist network if they want to and vice versa. Hell, when its happening in Europe and America, of course it can happen in India, India is much harder to police.
Oh, and you just claimed that it is not just poverty and illiteracy that is drawing the Indian Muslims to terrorism!
38 - gazelle
#27 apollo
I think what you will throw at me will be the The Constitution of India along with a trishul. although i wont mind some ramanujam.
best
39 - gazelle
#29 kishore
so finally you are suggesting the "root cause" is isi. too simplistic. isi may be active in places, like raw is, but there are huge sociological/polical problems which are not caused or explained by isi.
best
40 - Apollo
gazelle #38
looks like the book hit u very hard on the head. ur hallucinating already ;)
41 - kishore
the Intelligence Agencies operate like this. "There is a genuine cause to be outraged, such as the Killing of a Muslim or Some Event which has created a huge amount of shock, such as "Babri Masjid Demolition" etc., There could be a number of reasons you can tell that justifies such act, as there was no Muslim Prayers in that Masjid, there was no legal right etc, and there are number of reasons for the opposite party to feel intimidated, but ordinary people can't do anything about it.
Those are called as Fault lines. Every nation has faultlines, such as in US, the Whites say, the African Americans should change their ways, and the African Americans feel that they are being targeted, That is also a fault-line, but nobody is exploiting it except ISI of Pakistan, they are converting them into Muslims first, then they will put the seeds of Distrust, then only the they will give them Small Arms, or perhaps, portable Radiological Devices etc., to attack the citizen of that Country.
Ordinary people like you and me, can only think, and suggest what the people should do, we are also a part of the Faultline. We cannot do anything about it. The thinking beyond Faultline for Subversive activities is teh job of the Intelligence community. That is what ISI is very good at, even better than CIA.
They do deception, the ordinary people will get endless arguments for what the other party should do, for example, there were a number of people in the west as recently as in '90s, who were telling that Indian Population Explosion is bad for the country. But the same people are saying now, that Indian Demography is very favourable for its Economic growth. There was a fault-line, but the people defeated it. Likewise, the Terrorists are also going to win ultimately. it may take 2 decades or so, before they could start getting the results. but with their determination, they will ultimately win.
You can defeat their designs, only when you give them Punishment. But appeasing with F-16's, 5 Billion $'s etc., is only going to make them more bold., That was what India did to the Pakistan, Appeasing.
Here comes the leadership, to take the pivotal Role, and show of Bravery, and determination, For example, PV Narasimha Rao, defeated Punjab Terrorism from its roots not because of Appeasing, but because the people like "Sarabjit Singh" who are the true son's of India, who have also retaliated with tit-for-tat Terrorism against Pakistan, Then entire Sikh Terrorism was totally eradicated, Again the reason for success is not because of Mr.KPS Gill who had suppressed the Terrorists with Iron Hand, though he did a good job by doing it great. But it is the Leadership at the Highest Point which has made this possible.
Similarly, If we have determination to root out Terrorism, we have to resort to Terrorism against Pakistan and its Society.
But I doubt whether the Leadership of Bush who calls Musharraff (Who is the root cause of all the evil the world is watching today) his buddy. Also I doubt the PM of India, with limited powers and Pusillanimity, could give the leadership that India badly needs, The ordinary people are of no use, but can only generate huge debates, and no action is possible, no amount of Public pressure could put any Leader to mend his ways and show some leadership, the leadership has to come to them, naturally. What india needs is a strong leadership, what USA needs is a strong leadership.
42 - Gopal
India is not a place dictated by Hindus or Hindu religion.It is a very competitive place where your children need to study for atleast 10 to 14 hours a day ( school + tuition) to get admission to Graduate and Professionla courses. Parents have to rellay scrounge and budget for their children's success. After passing the exams youths struggle and compete to get jobs and promotion. There is very little room for complacency. It is hard life for the successfull to succeed and to reamin successful.
Question: How did the successful muslims become successful0 Doctors, presidents, busnessmen, actors, traders and all those who are rich and powerful.
Question: Why are there so many poor Hindus ?
Question : In Kerala ( a state of India with 4 million people) hindus/Muslims / Christians are equal- 33 % each. Kerala has 100% literacy rate.
Why ?
Situation: If Joseph kills John - it is murder.
Situation: If Ram kills Raghav it is murder.
Situation: If Rehman kills Anis- it is murder.
Situation: If Ram kills Iqbal- it is religious hatred.
Question: would any Muslims accept a Hindu or Christian son(daughter) in alw and allow them to practice their religion and not force them to convert !!
Options: Jinnah has been kind to Indinas- he took majority Muslims to Pakistan. Why did he leave his grandson behind !! ( I admire his vision).
43 - nisha
tum india walay kutay ho tum begairat ho