Here we are debating the implementation of health care reforms which will likely lead directly to a nationwide system of socialized medicine, while we have sitting before us direct object lessons in how disastrous and ineffective a state-run health care system can be. All we have to do is look across the ocean or read a European newspaper to hear stories of the ongoing and repeated failures of their attempts at nationalized health care.
The left is eager to dismiss the failures of socialized medicine worldwide and point to irrelevant statistics like life expectancy as if they mean something and wring their hands over the uninsured and call us racists or rednecks or some other sily name to distract from the real issues. But with new examples of how disastrous nationalized health care can be popping up almost every day, their attempts at distraction seem feeble and pointless.
Here's the lesson for today. An article in the Times of London reports that while the average British citizen waits months to see a doctor and weeks for lifesaving treatment, employees of the National Health Service, in full awareness of the life-threatening inefficiency of their system of heavily rationed health care, have arranged to be exempted from that system and receive priority treatment from private doctors.
Yes, the British National Health system which is so highly admired by our left here in America is such a mess that it's own employees use taxpayer funds to receive timely and competent treatment in the private sector which they and their patients cannot get from the NHS. They report that in the last three years over 3000 NHS employees have received private medical treatment using public funds.
The argument for allowing this is that these workers are vital to the functioning of the NHS, so getting them treated and healthy in a timely manner helps keep the system running so that customers get better service, costs are kept down and workplaces are healthier. It's a reasonable argument, but why is it not just as valid for every citizen working in every job in every other industry? Wouldn't their employers like them to get treated quickly and be healthy and get back on the job? Wouldn't they like to not have to wait weeks and months to get necessary treatment?
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Jet Gardner
Them thar right-wingers just lovvvvve to use the word socialism in all it's forms wherever they can as a scare tactic...
Socialists+socialism=nazism...
Even implying it in article titles...
Sooner or later they'll realize that the public sees right through that and the only ones they're really preaching to are their own choir.
groan
2 - Jet Gardner
Christopher Rose, do you really have to wait months/years for health care?
3 - Simon J. James
I'm not sure I understand the premise of this article. Those of you who can afford insured healthcare will still receive it, right? Those that cannot will actually have AN option rather then none. The NHS managers that have private option have it as a perk of their elevated position, just as it is a perk of any management position in any company of a large size.
That isn't socialism, that's just seems like the right thing to do.
I come from and live in the UK and have experienced the NHS many times (ill relatives, my operations and broken bones, check ups, sniffs and splutters) and it is fantastic but it can be awful. More often than not, it is the former. I'm sure the American system can be magnificent, with some cases of being terrible, but it fails too many people. And I'm not talking about spongers and ne'er do wells who will try to suck the system dry. I'm talking about working people who don't get insurance and can't afford to get ill. They need this.
Just as a post script, my father has just come out of hospital after having his second hip replacement, the care was so good, he was standing on crutches at a wedding exactly a week after his operation. He's 73.
4 - Ruvy
Simon,
The true irony, the irony that even the author has missed is this: The United States of America, once the wealthiest nation the planet had ever seen, refused to institute a decent system of health care when it could have well afforded to. Now that the Americans are up to their eyeballs in debt to the communist Chinese, of all people, now that their currency is about to be eclipsed by the yen or the euro, now that the United States teeters on the edge of bankruptcy - now suddenly their government is pushing socialized medicine.
5 - zingzing
dave: "The left is eager to dismiss the failures of socialized medicine worldwide and point to irrelevant statistics like life expectancy as if they mean something..."
?
yeah, life expectancy means something. since when is the average age of death meaningless?
and you seem to miss the point that private healthcare will still be an option. why do you skip that? did you just want to say "socialism" as much as possible?
and ruvy, you obviously haven't been paying much attention.
6 - Ruvy
zing,
What's there to pay attention to? This article is the old "bash the NHS" routine that Republicans and conservatives use to try and kill support for socialized medicine. You seem to forget that I am a PROPONENT of socialized medicine, zing, not an opponent. But even a syndicalist socialist (perhaps especially a syndicalist socialist) understands that you cannot attempt to purchase what you cannot afford. And you Americans can no longer afford to attempt to purchase a socialized medicine system. You woke up too late, and the money is gone. That's all there is to it.
7 - Dave Nalle
yeah, life expectancy means something. since when is the average age of death meaningless?
It's meaningless because it doesn't take into account other factors of the American lifestyle which bring life expectancy down. If you eliminate the deaths caused solely by being more overweight and driving cars more Americans actually have a longer life expectancy than Europeans.
and you seem to miss the point that private healthcare will still be an option. why do you skip that? did you just want to say "socialism" as much as possible?
Private healthcare cannot coexist with a "public option" and there is little point in doing most of these reforms without including that provision. Either through direct government management of private plans or a public option we will eventually end up with state run health care unless we follow a radically different course, so it makes sense to look at the failures of such systems around the world.
Dave
8 - Joanne Huspek
Our government is exceedingly short sighted. They can't see the outcome, or they see it and don't care. Of course, they'll have cushy health care options while they push more of the middle class toward the poor end of the spectrum.
9 - zingzing
ruvy, my point was that this certainly isn't the first time that this has come up. it's not "sudden" by any means.
dave: "It's meaningless because it doesn't take into account other factors of the American lifestyle which bring life expectancy down."
i'm not sure you can really ignore those numbers when calculating life expectancy...
"Private healthcare cannot coexist with a "public option"..."
but isn't that what you were just writing about in the article? how did they pull it off in england?
10 - Simon J. James
Dave Nalle:
"Private healthcare cannot coexist with a "public option" and there is little point in doing most of these reforms without including that provision. Either through direct government management of private plans or a public option we will eventually end up with state run health care unless we follow a radically different course, so it makes sense to look at the failures of such systems around the world."
Dave - private and public healthcare co-exists relatively peacefully in the UK. Now. Anything you're hearing on Fox News at the moment about creeping socialism and the horrors of European healthcare is simple scaremongering and irresponsible.
11 - Simon J. James
Ruvy:
The myth of debt as a high percentage of GDP equalling brinkmanship with bankruptcy is widely discredited. You only have to look at Japan, Italy, Germany France etc. to know that whilst their economies have been flaccid they are now recovering very well.
12 - Ruvy
I don't mean to change the subject, but the short video referenced above is, IMHO, more important than any socialized medicine scheme being whined about. My main objection to Americans' establishing socialized medicine is that you are all broke. If events occur as they appear to be shaping up to transpire, not only will you be broke, but you will remain broke forever.
13 - Doug Hunter
"Anything you're hearing on Fox News at the moment about creeping socialism and the horrors of European healthcare is simple scaremongering and irresponsible."
Scientific studies show death rates from common diseases are much higher in Europe than the US because of lack of funding for screening measures. For example, men have a 19% higher death rate from common cancers. The same thing applies to heart disease, etc.
Additionally, all the money put into healthcare has resulted in world class research with the US winning 50% of the recent Nobel's including this year's. Those discoveries have improved healthcare for practically every person on the planet. If we had taken shortsighted socialist policies years ago and diverted that money from research into universal care everyone would be worse off now.
14 - Jet Gardner
You people should know that when Dave says it's meaningless, it's because he SAYS it's meaningless and for no other reason.
so there
15 - Simon J. James
Ruvy - Monckton is whacko! His climate work has been laughed out (after being pulled apart mercilessly) of most self respecting journals. He advocated quarantining all AIDS sufferers in the 80s. He also wants to reduce Governement by 90% and cede responsibility to the family and community.
He's a publicity whore of the highest order.
16 - Jeannie Danna
This is an excerpt from Health Justice Now;
Statement of the Week; Senator Chuck Grassley said: "It's clear this bill is already moving on a slippery slope to more and more government control."
Seriously? Since when did spending less on Medicare and Medicaid programs, and handing billions of tax dollars over to the private health insurers become more government control?
The Senate Finance Committee bill is far from government run health care and much the worse for that. It is a bailout for the insurance companies, whose failing business model looks more and more like a Ponzi scheme, where new premiums are used to pay off the previous unsustainable profitable promises, until eventually money runs out and everyone catches on. Things will continue to get worse until we treat health care as a social necessity (like fire departments) and enact Medicare For All
17 - Jeannie Danna
I wish we were like France!
Let's see;
National Health care
Better wages
Two months p[aid holiday
National Day Care
HMMM.
No wonder France has a longer and Healthier life expectancy
WAKE UP AMERICA AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!!
18 - Dave Nalle
Simon, my reference in this article is not Fox News, but the Times of London which is considered the premiere newspaper of the UK and does seem somewhat credible on this subject.
As for private medicine cooexisting with public medicine, yes it is possible. But it comes at additional expense which leaves us asking why if we have to pay more just to get the same service we get now from private healthcare we would ever want to go to a public system.
And when you bring up the fact that private care is available in the UK you fail to mention that it has been brought back as an option specifically because of the failure of the NHS.
Dave
19 - Simon J. James
Doug - That link doesn't work, I think you have to register.
I'm assuming that you mean those who are insured have a lower chance of dying from a common cancer or heart disease? I would think so too. Those that die outside the auspices of insured healthcare are forgotten / unused statistics, yes?
Also, you'll have to explain how insurance companies contribute to medical research? Bear in mind I work for a Global Healthcare company with one of the largest and finest R&D operation in the world.
20 - Dave Nalle
Don't worry, Jeanie. We'll be like France soon enough. I'm looking forward to the features you overlooked like 30% unemployment, race riots that have been ongoing for 3 years now and double the death rate from the most common and preventable forms of cancer.
Dave
21 - Jeannie Danna
Dave,
irrelevant statistics like life expectancy as if they mean something
Maybe a long life is not important to you....
I, on the other hand, want to reach 100+
22 - Jeannie Danna
It cracks me up to see the new Insurer commercials...
Ha Ha Ha, they want to help us with preventative care now!
When did Insurance Agents start taking Medical Classes?
23 - Jeannie Danna
FOR PROFIT HEALTH CARE IS KEEPING US SICK!!!!
24 - Clavos
Those that die outside the auspices of insured healthcare are forgotten / unused statistics, yes?
Actually, no. All deaths are recorded by the Feds and included in all statistical reporting.
25 - Simon J. James
Dave - RE Your comment #18, I'm sorry but you're wrong.
There are approximately 50 million people in US that do not have any medical insurance cover. That's why you need a public option, just like you gave one to your thoroughly deserving Veterans and your Aged.
The Times of London is an good newspaper and the article is credible. However, the private healthcare option is not available due to the failings of the NHS, far from it! Healthcare is available to all, regardless of status. Private practise has always has been been available throughout British history! Private healthcare is available to all but get this, it's the same Doctors! The advantage that's worth paying for is that you can schedule your own surgery / treatment rather than relying on enforced appointment times on the NHS. Even to the point that PPP, BUPA et al have built their own small hospitals so they can maximise the patient experience! Therefore it is offered to management grades as a perk of employment that will benefit the company due to flexibility of treatment, should you need it.
The only difference between the public and private options here is control and individual focus.