David Brooks, an Op-ed columnist for the New York Times, wrote an interesting article today which he entitled, "A House Divided, and Strong." Here is the gist of the article:
Conservatives have not triumphed because they have built a disciplined and efficient message machine. Conservatives have thrived because they are split into feuding factions that squabble incessantly. As these factions have multiplied, more people have come to call themselves conservatives because they've found one faction to agree with.
I agree.
Most of the conservatives I know LOVE a good debate. The more challenging, the better.
And I'm not talking about shouting matches. I've been shouted down many times while debating liberals face-to-face. When you begin shouting, you've lost the debate.
Actually, though, I debate my fellow conservatives far more often than I debate liberals. These days, many of the liberals I debate love to give me bumper sticker slogans, or quotes from obscure reactionary websites, but not a whole lot else.
Now, on my blog and here at Blogcritics.org, I'm accused all the time of being "a mouthpiece" for the GOP. "David has his talking points out," they say. Really, though, I have many differences with my party.
I'm a strong supporter, not just of diversity in general, but diversity training. I wholeheartedly support equal opportunity/access initiatives. We do not yet live in a perfectly equal society, and probably never will, so it makes sense to try and even the playing field as much as we can.
I'm liberal when it comes to immigration. This country has grown and thrived because immigrants coming into this country (legally and illegally) by and large just want a chance to work hard and support their families. It is their hard work and their commitment to family values that have helped keep America strong and prosperous over the centuries.
I'm moderate on issues related to gun control. I'm perfectly okay with requiring background checks and registrations for gun owners. Having said that, if my state were ever to pass a concealed carry law, I'd be the first to sign up.
And there are a host of other issues that I wind up in debates over with friends, including things like Medicare spending, the deficit, the UN, etc.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Steve S
You cling to, celebrate and take pride in your conservative political ideology, like most people take pride in their heritage or last name.
2 - gonzo marx
god, guns, gays, and abortion...
when the Repulocrats can get beyond the knee jerk on these, and begin to speak about other nuances in todays Reality...then i may agree with you, David
your writing makes me hope that those with the same political affiliation will read and heed..
unfortunately more seem to fall into the DeLay, Limbaugh, Hannity,Coulter school of belittle, shout down, and shift topic...distract...distract...distract!!
those, such as yourself and some others i have found here...willing to discuss things honestly...from BOTH artificial "sides" of the political spectrum...do nothing but help folks get a handle on, and Understand Issues..
would that more open discourse could occur WITHOUT false "labels"
hey..who knows..we could propose a whole governmental system based on..i dunno..accurate representation of the population, without gerrymandering...and they could discuss the problems and issues that face society ...and maybe....i dunno..try and solve them in a non-adversarial fashion where good ideas get implemented ...and the People tat voted them in were actually represented..you know, the breathing folks..not the "legal entities" on K street...
what the fuck am i saying..
sorry...silly Fantasy...i know
Excelsior!
3 - Bennett Dawson
While I disagree with you on whether "conservative" or "Liberal" are valid generalizations, I agree with your personal politics. The ones outlined in the body of your post.
Even if this is all I ever agree with you about, I whole heartedly agree that internet debate is the new heartbeat of political reform. It will only grow in importance. We live in exciting times!
4 - David Flanagan
hey..who knows..we could propose a whole governmental system based on..i dunno..accurate representation of the population, without gerrymandering
gonzo:
You would have my support on that issue. I think the wave of gerrymandering Republican politicians have carried out is incredibly wrong. I hear the argument that Democrats did it before, while they were in power, but it's a childish excuse.
It's the wrong use of power. Instead, Republicans should work to reform the system so that districts are created through a system that is as unbiased and mathematical as possible.
Anyway, thanks for your comments.
David
5 - David Flanagan
You cling to, celebrate and take pride in your conservative political ideology...
Steve,
I take pride in the power of free debate, and the ability of average people to shift the direction of government when needed. In terms of conservative ideology, the whole purpose of my post is to point out the fact that conservatives are all over the map.
It is our intellectual diversity that makes us strong, because we always have to defend what we believe. If you can't defend what you believe, then you should consider believing something else.
Thanks,
David
6 - gonzo marx
David...
you have just moved up some notches, and have earned my personal Respect for practicing what ya Preach..many thanx for Rational Discourse
would that all follow such an Example..
maybe then we could get the People's work done and continue the American Experiment in the Spirit which it was Founded..
i can Dream, can't i?
Excelsior!
7 - Temple Stark
You do realize don't you David that this is the exact same argument Democrats used for 30-40 years in celebration of their diversity. And they used to get critized for being wildly, er, all over the map.
8 - gonzo marx
now ya got me ta pondering...
about the gerrymandering Issue..both "sides" are wrong when they do it..ever since the phrase was coined..
here's a Soloution ta ponder...
get a few kids at M.I.T. with some computers..have them write a program, feed it the Census data along with town, county and state boundary info...that's it..nothing else..
simplicity really...the FEC shoulda thought of it years ago...heaven knows they get paid a helluva lot more than lil ole me ta come up with this kinda stuff...
so how about it..Repubocrats and Demlicans alike...yas up fer a fair fight?
i also wonder where the whole "term limits" bullshit went too...anyone else remember that piece of hype?
i seem to remember we were supposed to be "governed" by citizens...not "ruled" by a professional oligarchy...how about 3 terms for Congress...2 for Senators..neither exclusive of the other, but both as absolute as the Law for the Presidency...
that'll flush some of the turds from the public trough...take away the incentives to make a "career" of fucking the Citizenry and perhaps they would start trying to care for their constituency's needs, rather than obsessing over filling the coffers of their re-election warchests...
that's two fer Discussion...
ring the bell fer Round One!
Excelsior!
9 - Dave Nalle
Well Temple, all the 'diverse' Democrats fled their party and brought their loony diversity to the Republican party in the last 30-40 years.
Dave
10 - Temple Stark
Yeah Dave, when I think of Republicans today, I think of the Democrat Party through the ages. Sure, I think everyone does, really. And spare me your version of "everyman."
David's argument is the same 'tis all I was saying.
11 - gonzo marx
>points up to #8 and whispers<
aww...c'mon folks..there's some red meat there!!
geeez...
{8^)
Excelsior!
12 - michael bryan
It would be lovely if that were true, but in today's GOP diversity of opinion is often met with coerson and sanctions. Stepping on the sacred cow-pies is the basis for a stoning. Unswerving loyalty to the cause, to the ruling clique, and to the President is what is really valued, not debate; anything less is punished.
I agree that the GOP does have many factions, but the difference of opinion are conflicts over core values, not spats over doctrine. The diversity of the GOP is not the kind that creates a rich dialog, it is the kind that causes domestic violence. The GOP cannot and will not persist in its current form much longer, the internal pressures are to great. If McCain gets the nomination in 2008 (and he likely will), then the religious right will likely stay home or bolt to the Constitution party or something. Likewise, McCain's progressive Republicans will ditch if a religious nut or tool, like JEB, takes the nomination. Either way, the inherent contradictions are quickly pulling apart the GOP. 2008 will be the last hurrah.
13 - Shark
I'm guessing that characterizing a 'debate' as a 'gunfight in the old west' automatically make one a Republican.
Too much irony for me there, Davey.
Another question:
And if a Republican 'misspeaks' during a wild west debate, does that mean he shot himself in the mouth?
ie. Will a self-referential, paradoxical logic debating error make you a "Hunter S. Thompson" of semantics?
Just wonderin'.
xxoo,
Shark [who -- as yer typical 'liberal' -- prefers debating with *water balloons and *cream pies]
*true 'diversity'
14 - gonzo marx
Sahrk..i heartily approve of utilizing pie as a debating tool..
unfotunately..i keep forgetting to defrost the ones i throw..
ah well..so much for highbrow discourse...
Excelsior!
15 - gonzo marx
argh..Shark even..damned dyslexia
my apologies..
Excelsior!
16 - Steve S
In terms of conservative ideology, the whole purpose of my post is to point out the fact that conservatives are all over the map.
I didn't mean my comment in a judgemental way as much as just an observation. Just about every post of yours is about the joy of being a conservative and the pleasure of not being a liberal.
Just callin it like I see it, I'm not saying 'aha' at the same time.
If you can't defend what you believe, then you should consider believing something else.
what are you defending your belief from?
17 - Tristan
Holy POOP ~~~
in memory of the pope ~~~
I thought this was an old post from April 1st until I went back and looked that it was posted today--April 5th!
Those damn left-wing liberals! They are cunning and baffling; we must never underestimate them: this is obviously one of their crafty (not a Witch pun!) attempts at black-ops reverse Disinformation.
18 - Shark
Steve nails Flanagan: "...Just about every post of yours is about the joy of being a conservative and the pleasure of not being a liberal."
Yea, he doth protest too much.
Come outta the closet, Dave!
You know you get nauseated listening to Bush speak in public -- just like the rest of us. You look into those too-close-together eyes and wonder if Barbara shoulda had an abortion.
And you think to yerself, "Hell, I'd have gladly paid for it with taxpayer money."
C'mon, man, fess up.
19 - Shark
Show us yer "diversity."
20 - Dave Nalle
>>If McCain gets the nomination in 2008 (and he likely will), then the religious right will likely stay home or bolt to the Constitution party or something. Likewise, McCain's progressive Republicans will ditch if a religious nut or tool, like JEB, takes the nomination. Either way, the inherent contradictions are quickly pulling apart the GOP. 2008 will be the last hurrah.<<
As a Republican this sounds great to me. I just hope that it's the McCain nomination that does it so we can keep the good old party name. BTW, I'm not sure JEB is the catalyst you think he is. Another Bush is more likely to hold the party together than the break it apart.
Dave
21 - gonzo marx
/sigh
in 2000 i was ready to vote for McCain..after the shit Rove and Company pulled on him in South Carolina...i fervently Wished he would split off an drun on Teddy Rosevelt's Bull Moose Party ticket..knowing what a big fan of Teddy's he was/is
instead, he folded liek an accordian and chose to be a "good Republican"...bent over and took it with no lube and has since whore'd himself out for the Shrub in all things..
pragmatism understands why he did it...and that he hopes to be "the Man" for this next fiasco in '08..
but i can't get with "pragmatism" of this kind..if someone will bend over for hsi Foe once...he can and will do so again...
and i don't want the guy/girl in the White House to be ANYBODY's bitch
not his Party's..not the "special interests"...nobody's
broke my heart...i would have worked hard for him ...he did have my Respect
Excelsior!
22 - RJ
I don't if McCain can win the GOP nomination...it's possible, not hardly a given.
That being said, if he does get the GOP nod, there is the possibility of some Religious Right guy running as an Independent or for a Third Party, and getting a sizable (5%) chunk of the vote. Possibly large enough to elect Hillary... :-/
23 - RJ
"I don't if McCain can win the GOP nomination"
That should be "I don't KNOW if McCain can win the GOP nomination in 2008"...
Sorry... :-/
24 - Shark
During the recent election, McCain went from being a "hero" to a whore with no shred of integrity -- which ironically qualifies him for a run at the Presidency.
...And rumor has it that he went so far as to give Bush a blow-job in the Oval Office...
25 - robbyrob
President Bush (his administration) has borrowed some $700 billion of your payroll taxes that he now says will never be paid back. In fact, just last year (2004), on the president's watch, $156 billion (and change) of your Social Security payroll tax dollars went for what he calls worthless pieces of paper.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_04_03.php#005352