I never would have expected it to happen this quickly, but after several health care town hall meetings where concerned constituents asked questions and challenged Democrat congressmen over their support of health care legislation, the Democrats have struck back with violence. When packing the halls with picked supporters failed to silence opposition and smear campaigns about "astroturf" and fictional corporate organizers didn't discredit genuine grassroots protest, on Thursday they decided to send in the thugs.
Town halls in St. Louis and Tampa were marred by forced exclusion of constituents and disrupted by violence against protesters from uniformed members of the Service Employees International Union, a group which has a history of staging protests with paid agitators and engaging in organized intimidation and violence. In Tampa, the purple-shirted SEIU thugs allowed only handpicked attendees into the hall to speak with Rep. Kathy Castor, excluding over 1500 local residents who had waited peacefully in line for hours. When a few activists got in and tried to videotape the meeting, they were forcibly ejected, and at least one man was injured in the process. In St. Louis, the role of the SEIU purple-shirts was much the same. Hundreds turned out to talk with Rep. Russ Karnahan, but only a limited number of picked people were allowed in through a side door, while the real constituents waited in line. Karnahan had been mildly heckled at a similar event last month and clearly was not going to let it happen again. After the St. Louis event, an African-American man who was selling Gadsden flags and political buttons outside the hall was attacked by several SEIU thugs, knocked to the ground while one of his attackers shouted a racial insult, and was beaten as onlookers tried to intervene. He was subsequently taken to the emergency room. Six of those involved in the violence were arrested, including Jack Wagman, a reporter for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.
.jpg?t=20120209092158)
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Jordan Richardson
Dave, what does this article have to do with Hitler's SS?
2 - Jane
God bless these patriots protesting Obamacare. He has never produced a birth certificate and most evidence shows he was born in Kenya. How can a man who is not even legally President shove socialized medicine on us. We need one of our OWN KIND in the White house. Vote Republican as if your life depended on it because it probably does!
3 - handyguy
If 'regular constituents' are being kept out of the meetings, who is being let in? Irregular constituents? Regular inconstituents? Irregular incontinent Republicans?
4 - Dave Nalle
Dave, what does this article have to do with Hitler's SS?
It's a reference to the comment in the blurb for the article and to the tactics of the SEIU thugs.
If 'regular constituents' are being kept out of the meetings, who is being let in? Irregular constituents? Regular inconstituents? Irregular incontinent Republicans?
Democrat precinct chairmen, union members, picked partisans of one kind or another. In the case of the St. Louis event the hall was almost completely filled with union staff and officers.
And Jane, the conspiracy stuff really doesn't help. We've got a real issue here which needs real solutions.
Dave
5 - Jordan Richardson
to the tactics of the SEIU thugs
Understood.
I'm curious. How many protesters were imprisoned by these thugs? How much land or property was seized? And where are the concentration camps that house the protesters waiting for extermination? How many were merely shot on the spot?
6 - Franco
Jordan Richardson
The sound of your silence is deafening. All tyranny starts out with an uncontested spill out. Are you not disturbed about this?
[Needless repetition deleted by Comments Editor]
7 - Dave Nalle
The Brown letter is very informative. Thanks for posting it. It has details which weren't in the news reports or the eyewitness accounts.
Jordan, take your questions and consider how Germans would have answered them in 1928. Had the SS seized land and property or imprisoned anyone then? Nope, just some threatening partisan activists in tan shirts giving out the occasional beating and protecting their leader.
Dave
8 - Jordan Richardson
Are you not disturbed about this?
Yes, I am disturbed by this. I'm disturbed by continued attempts by both the Left and the Right to characterize the other as Nazis, fascists and so forth. I find it offensive and ignorant to history to do so and I'd hope to hell that these articulate, intelligent individuals would think better than to use one of the biggest atrocities in human history as a mere metaphor here.
In any case, if you really believe that Obama and his ilk are comparable to Nazis and that the outcome is comparable to the Final Solution or some sort of other process, what are you doing about it? How's about you, Dave? Writing articles about it? Is that all?
If the leader of your country is an insane tyrant prepared to gas an entire people group, should you not be more worried than this? Should you not be marching on Washington with a trunk full of weapons?
This type of mindless hyperbole leads the ignorant among us to do just that, Dave. While you might find the comparison apt due to your inability to avoid senseless metaphors and stick with the facts, others are scared shitless and, due to their fear and paranoia, are capable of violence in defense of what they believe to be "their country." It's only a matter of time before this ridiculous characterization of Obama and Co. as Nazis or fascists leads to some violence and even death.
What will you say then, Mr. Nalle? Franco? Archie?
What's your excuse going to be when your contribution to this discourse is fuel to someone's fire?
Something tells me that the silence, at long last, will be "deafening."
9 - Jordan Richardson
Dave, are you suggesting that the "best is yet to come?" Is there any logical reason to compare these people to murderous thugs at this point and time or are you just fresh out of sanity and looking to stir the pot for political gain?
10 - Joanne Huspek
I'm shaking my head. A few things come to mind. Freedom of speech. The ability to connect with your representative to voice your concern. Freedom of thought.
We live in a time when these things are being eroded day by day right under our noses.
In order to be a good citizen, one must examine the events around them. Reasonable discourse follows naturally. What is unreasonable is to expect that intelligent people buy the company line without question.
Perhaps the best to come out of these trying times is that the normally apathetic are getting off their couches and actually DOING something.
11 - Arch Conservative
Did you get your panties in a bunch every time some leftist dolt compared Bush to Hitler during the last eight years Jordan?
My money's on no you didn't.
The messiah himself is coming to my home state of NH next week to spread his lies and propaganda at one of his staged pep rallies. I'm sure the event will be chock full of Acorn operatives and union meatheads who've never set foot in New Hampshire before.
I hope that at the end of the day more than a few of these out of state Obama brownshirts find themselves with the opportunity to experience NH hospitality at some of our local ERs.
They're not welcome here and neither is the Chicago thug in chief.
12 - Philip Harris
Shouting slogans is not participatory democracy. In Maine, we have town meetings to "discuss' local issues and to decide what we want to do. There is no chanting, no screaming--discussion. Does it get heated at times, ayuh-but we get through it. Even when the state had a set of very controversial hearings on same sex marriage-the thousands of attendees were civil and polite. I seriously doubt that those who attend a meeting with placards and shouting slogans are looking to discuss anything. I am sorry, but health care reform should not be pushing such hot buttons unless they are being orchestrated-the question is by whom?
Name calling only inflames and ends discussion. These ignorant comparisons to madmen is not meant to start dialog, but to end it (a tactic used in totalitarian states).
So, why not have a real discussion about the issues and end this inflammatory attempt to demonize Obama or the Democrats. And there is very little doubt that lobby groups are falsifying information and stirring the racist pot to end discussion-a tactic not usually associated with Democrats-hmm, does Watergate come to mind?
So let's talk issues and end the yelling.
13 - Jordan Richardson
Did you get your panties in a bunch every time some leftist dolt compared Bush to Hitler during the last eight years Jordan?
Yes, I did. Again, these comparisons are insensitive to the historical record, to Holocaust survivors and to human beings in general. It's metaphorical nonsense and a completely unnecessary part of public discourse, left or right.
They're not welcome here and neither is the Chicago thug in chief.
I didn't know you spoke for your entire state, Archie, but I do find it interesting that instead of a positive, receptive attitude towards learning and discussion, you possess one of hatred and vitriol.
I finally realized that Barack Obama has nothing to do with your little diatribes at all. It could be ANY democrat or any dreaded leftist. You'd have different slogans a little hate-filled anecdotes for them, too. The truth is that you can't handle opposing views at all. You think, like so many others, that the only "logical" conclusion is to be of your philosophical foundation. There's no room in "your America" for others.
Sad, really.
14 - Jordan Richardson
We live in a time when these things are being eroded day by day right under our noses.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with this at all. Each time a Democrat is elected, there's this similar song and dance about freedoms being eroded. Then a Republican comes in and allegedly "restores" liberty and freedom before the next Democrat.
You're not living in a "time" when these things are being eroded. You're caught in an eternal political spin cycle that obstructs the raw truth, imprisons the public in a web of lies and deceit from both political parties and all media outlets, and preys on the fears and paranoia of people like Joanne and Archie and Dave for political, fiscal and corporate gain.
And the cycle continues because each one of you allows it to. There's really little difference between the left and the right behind closed doors, yet you guys play "Opposite Day" on these issues to concoct this idea of electoral choice. What about another political party? Economic system? Electoral system? Health care option?
Wouldn't dream of it, would you? Nobody discusses the options or the possibilities in America. They never do. They only discuss their lack of freedoms while simultaneously telling the rest of us in the world that we're even less free.
Brilliant.
15 - Dave Nalle
Dave, are you suggesting that the "best is yet to come?" Is there any logical reason to compare these people to murderous thugs at this point and time or are you just fresh out of sanity and looking to stir the pot for political gain?
Jordan, read up on the history of past SEIU activities. They have a history of resorting to fairly extreme violence when put on the job as "security" or intimidating workers.
The nazi comparisons are inevitable, because what we're looking at here is a paramilitary put to work as thugs for a political party, combined with a massive propaganda effort. Go read some of the articles about these protests at Huffington Post and then watch some of the videos I've included here. The amount of deliberate lying coming from the left is remarkable. It's truly troubling that they think they can get away with this stuff.
As for being murderous, I haven't gone that far yet. But they are thugs, no question. My concern is that with a month of this still to go the crowds of protesters are going to grow -- they went from hundreds to thousands in a week -- and the level of violence against them will go up. These protesters are NOT hippies. A lot of them are veterans and a lot of them are at the breaking point. There's a very real possibility that someone is going to fight back and things are going to get ugly.
On the upside, I've been doing what I can to discourage violence and apply some of what I learned growing up in the 60s. You might be interested in my articles at the RLC.
Dave
16 - Dave Nalle
So, why not have a real discussion about the issues and end this inflammatory attempt to demonize Obama or the Democrats.
Philip, did you not read the article? Common constituents who go to these events to discuss the issues in a peaceful way are being forced out and denied the opportunity to speak and in some cases attacked. In most cases the protests really only start after free speech is denied.
Stop reading the propaganda from the left and look a little deeper.
Dave
17 - roger nowosielski
Jordan,
I happen to think that the union involvement on the Democrats' behalf is a mistake. I understand the Democrats' concern of letting the right wing's opposition to the Obama plan go uncontested was well taken, for it would created the impression that public opinion weighs heavily about health reforms, but there are other, more effective ways of dealing with the problem than by bringing in the outsiders. Let the right wing boast of that particular distinction.
All that needs be done is to make sure that these so-called "town meetings" are attended to only by the locals. Local police departments could easily see to that by checking the attendees IDs, and that would be it.
It's interesting, though, that Dave is so quick to call the Democrats' response thuggery while he was all rah rah rah for similar behavior on the part of the right wingers and called it free speech. Talking about double standard.
18 - Dave Nalle
All that needs be done is to make sure that these so-called "town meetings" are attended to only by the locals. Local police departments could easily see to that by checking the attendees IDs, and that would be it.
This sounds fine to me because I know that these so called "mobs" are in fact made up of local citizens who just want a chance to express their concerns. The reason the union thugs are being used is that the Dems realize this too, and they want to limit the audience ideologically rather than geographically.
It's interesting, though, that Dave is so quick to call the Democrats' response thuggery while he was all rah rah rah for similar behavior on the part of the right wingers and called it free speech. Talking about double standard.
Really? When did I support or in any way advocate violence or thuggery on the part of protesters? In point of fact I've written two articles at the RLC website specifically advising against any show of force as a tactic in these situations.
Dave
19 - roger nowosielski
I'm not saying you're supporting it, Dave, only referred to your terms of reference. Even if you're right in assuming that the participation from the right wing is predominantly local, that still doesn't excuse the kind of rowdy behavior which characterized these meetings. And
anger" is no excuse, not in a public forum. So local or not, both parties to the dispute are guilty of "thuggery."
After one or two of such incidences, sufficient measures should be taken to control this behavior and ensure orderly discussion. The fact that nothing was done only shows the ineptness of our political process and the people who are in charge of it. Pathetic.
20 - Dave Nalle
You're missing the point, Roger. People are going to these events with the intent of taking part in discussion and are then being denied that opportunity. That is why they are angry. That is why there are protests. If these events actually allowed free discussion and treated constituents with respect the problems wouldn't exist.
Dave
21 - Arch Conservative
Jordan...I guarantee you there will be more native NH residents outside the town hall protesting Obamacare than there will be inside supporting it.
But don't expect this to be shown on MSNBC or CBS news where it's contest who can kiss the most Obama ass.
I'd go protest myself if I didn't have to work and I also don't feel like getting arrested. I know that if I attended a protest outside the staged town hall and some union thug or Acorn douchebag from out of state laid one finger on me or even got up in my face and started yelling.........they'd be in an ambulance and I'd be in a police cruiser shortly afterward. I know this....so it's best for me to stay away and watch from afar those that can better control their anger at our thug and cheif and his brownshirt goons.
22 - roger nowosielski
"People are going to these events with the intent of taking part in discussion and are then being denied that opportunity. That is why they are angry. That is why there are protests. If these events actually allowed free discussion and treated constituents with respect the problems wouldn't exist."
If that's what is really going on, then you're right. It's inconcievable then that no measures have been taken by the organizers of these meetings to ensure proper citizen participations. It's not that hard to do. And second, that there we haven't seen any objective reporting on these events. It's impossible to believe that in this nation of over 200 million we can't have objective, disinterested reporting on these important events.
If we can't ascertain where the truth really lies in simple matters such as these, then we're indeed doomed as a nation, Dave.
23 - roger nowosielski
As a counterpoint, take our Archie's comment above (#21): he'd go there to protest and, if necessary, to bash heads. Which is why, wisely, he decided to abstain.
That's certainly not the kind of attitude that's conducive to discussing the issues. His mind is already made up.
24 - Arch Conservative
You forgot the part where I prefaced my remark by saying if someone laid their hands on me or started yelling in my face Roger. How convenient.
The fact is that the thug in chief is having his people send out these union meatheads and Acorns members to intimidate and threaten people who oppose the Thug's socialist agenda.
How am I or any other citizen who'd like to heave their voice heard without being called an angry mob, or being ridiculed by the THUG supposed to respond Roger?
How many trillions of taxpayer dollars must we watch the government waste while they consistently and continually ignore our letters, questions and peaceful attempts at redress before we have your permission to get a little pushy Roger?
25 - roger nowosielski
No I didn't, Archie, just did it for economy of expression. I did not characterize you as a trouble maker - only picked up that part of your comment which dealt with the subject at hand. Dave spoke of the underlying purpose behind these meetings being "to discuss." You spoke of registering a protest. And you do have a perfect right to have your mind made up, it's only that your motivation is different from what Dave was arguing for. So I brought up your remark as a counterexample.