This is my third Blogcritics article about Alaska Governor Sarah Palin. It is the most rewarding of the three.
On August 28, Adam Brickley, the person who started the push to Draft Palin for VP, had a somewhat cryptic post that those of us supporting Sarah Palin would be celebrating, very soon.…
Article comments
26 - bliffle
Clavos must maintain an iron air of innocence to state:
"...I object to deliberate manipulation..."
Whereas, it looks like people are VERY deliberate about their manipulations of taxes. Don't the wealthy manipulate taxes to enhance their wealth? Don't the poor manipulate taxes to get more?
Don't you and I attempt to carefully analyze proposed taxes to see what works best on our behalf?
Don't politicians deliberately manipulate taxes to win votes (and, increasingly, favors from lobbyists)?
Of course, we all do it!
We may pretend to have Larger Issues in mind, but basically we all want to deliberately manipulate taxes on our own behalves.
27 - Cannonshop
Bliffle, "Everyone does it" doesn't make it Right, it just makes it Popular.
That aside, Dave noted that Palin has screwed up- 'windfall taxes' generally don't work the way they're intended to, and she pushed one through the Alaska Legislature.
But balanced out against the other things she's done, she's still one of the better choices in an election year without a really GOOD choice. with some seasoning, she'd be a good first-choice, since she's accepted the number two slot, well...
at least the apprentice is in the number two slot, instead of the number one slot the Dems put theirs.
What's interesting is that the Republican vice-presidential nominee excites some of us more than their Presidential Nominee, and based on the reactions (and the difference in reactions) the Democrats find her more interesting than McCain, too. Dems don't attack someone they don't think has a chance or is a threat.
28 - Clavos
bliff #26,
(wrote this hours ago, but got called away before hitting "publish")
Don't be disingenuous; of course we all manipulate within the parameters of the tax code (and the less honest go beyond, sometimes WAY beyond), but you KNOW what I meant:
Don't politicians deliberately manipulate taxes to win votes (and, increasingly, favors from lobbyists)?
Your own words, and that to which I object.
29 - bliffle
cannon says:
"Everyone does it" doesn't make it Right, it just makes it Popular.
Right? What does 'right' have to do with it?
I offer the same defense for self-interest that every industrialist offers when he lays off 5000 people: "I have to do whats best for the shareholders"
In our personal case the "shareholders" are our families and other dependents. And even the yacht salesmen who depend on our ability to buy a bigger yacht next year.
30 - bliffle
But won't the famous "hidden hand" of a greed based economy guide everything to the right ends?
Of course not! And it never could, because time changes everything.
Remember this next time someone quotes some 200 years dead economist poser!
31 - Baronius
I don't see how anyone can defend Obama or Palin on the question of experience. There is an order of magnitude between the high-level experience of McCain and Biden (roughly 60 years) and the high-level experience of Obama and Palin (roughly 6). Argue about the value of experience if you want to, but don't depict Obama or Palin as having proven themselves capable of anything like the presidency. The only real distinction is that at least the Republicans are saying that an inexperienced person could be a back-up. The Democrats are playing their rookie first-string.
32 - Clavos
A non sequitur, bliffle.
Did you take your meds this morning?
33 - Deano
Cannon,
Sorry to be getting back to you so far down the comments but it looks like time-wise the conversation left me behind a bit...
It's interesting how fast the collective meme talking point became "executive experience" rather then just "experience"...
Regarding your "two apprentices, one job" metaphor...honestly, its a bit simplistic and a bit forced as the two situations are comparing apples to watermelons. The situation is more akin to having a decent journeyman pitcher from the some junior farm league suddenly being elevated to pitching the deciding game of the World Series. They might be good and experienced and have a nice curve ball but they also don't know The Majors, don't know the hitters and very probably are going to give up one hellava lot of runs before they find their stride.
Palin, by all accounts, has done a decent job a governer of Alaska but face it - that's a little like being the manager of the Kwicki-Mart and being elevated up to run Wal-Mart nationally (I'm exaggerating to make a point by the way, I'm not comparing Alaska to the Kwicki-Mart). There is "executive experience" but does it equate to presidential bonfides?
Obama is in the same boat. He doesn't have even the governship of Alaska to claim however what he does have in his favour is chops in Washington, ineffectual though you may claim he was as a legislator. He knows the players, the playground, how the system works and how it doesn't. He knows the pitfalls and the power structure.
You may deride it as time spent sitting on his ass with a bunch of windbags but I suspect anyone who can effectively finagle his way to the Democratic nomination as a junior senator knows the ins and outs of political manuver...and like it or not, that's a critical element in developing and pushing through effective policy decisions. It is also a bit of know-how that Palin, whatever her experience wrestling bears and gunning down moose, doesn't share.
This is my last comment on the subject because frankly, the endless prosing on about the election is making my head hurt and you guys with your carping on "executive experience" yada yada effectively makes my case that the whole "experience" argument is hypocritical batshit quite well, so I thank you.
One last thought - maybe someone should run on the merits of a much much shorter election cycle...they would have my vote in a nano-second.
34 - Cannonshop
Like a "Kwiki mart"? Okay...Deano, I call bullshit on that. Sure, the electorate's small, but the conditions more than make up for it, the Industries touch on every aspect of the national economy, the location is such that if a "Katrina" happened to a populated area, the only help under the best conditions would have to arrive from local sources. The state has to be fairly self-reliant because the margin of 'slack' is a LOT tighter than, say, Chicago.
Barack has social contacts and good advertising on his side-that's IT. Anyone with millionaire relatives or friends can do the same thing, anyone who's got lots of charisma and will play the game with the Daly machine can get the same thing. It's still the apprentice with the nice business cards and the big mouth. The fact is, Obama hasn't Done anything. We're comparing the Democratic Nominee for President, with the Republicans' nominee for the ceremonial position of Vice President, and it's because she's the equal (at worst) of their NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT.
It's the difference of he wants to learn the job after he's got it, she's already put in OJT for the job and it's just a move to a staff-position.
In military terms, Obama's a jumped up Leutenant with no Command experience, looking for a top-level command slot.
Sarah Palin's been a Leutenant in charge of a Platoon, then a Captain in charge of a Company, and they're only moving her up to a Staff Colonel's job...based on how she has performed in the field.
And why are we comparing HER to HIM? Both have someone "Experienced" right next to them-she's BELOW McCain on the chain of command, he's ABOVE Biden. Doesn't this look just the slightest bit wrong to anyone? She Smashed (caps for emphasis) the Machine in her home state, Obama's relied on the Daley machine since he entered politics.
If anything, Deano, Obama's rise shows that the Chicago Machine has too much influence, and the Democratic Party too little to offer in terms of electable persons, when the man who probably OUGHT to be the Nominee is instead languishing in the VPOTUS slot, while a man whose whole career shouts "Ineffectual" is their nominee.
On the flip side, it's also a sign of weakness in the Republican party that three-time loser McCain can't find someone willing to work with him among the Washington D.C. Elites-he's got to go to Alaska and poach their Governor to fill his number two slot (a woman who refused to run earlier this year for HIS job, because she was expecting a baby, and quite rationally didn't expect to get the nomination.)
Y'all see the weirdness of this? at ALL? The contest (or so I've been told in civics class) is supposed to be between the nominees for President. That'd be McCain, and Obama.
But the debate is between McCain's Number Two (Designated second in command) and Obama... and the Conservatives (bless their black shriveled hearts) aren't the ones driving the comparison. It really highlights weakness when your top man is being compared to the other guys' second (or lower) choice. It's worse when you're the ones doing the comparing, and I daresay it's catastrophic when the comparisons at worst come out even.
35 - Deano
Cannon,
my last word on this - you are still talking past my point - I'm don't give a two-penny damn about their relative experiences, that ISN'T MY POINT. My point is that the hypocritical nonsense you and other commenters are spewing so freely about how wonderfully "experienced" Palin is to be president / vice president (or President-in-waiting, until McCain kicks off). You guys are honestly turning yourselves inside out to justify Palin's nomination. It is one of the tings that make US politics a circus sideshow instead of a policy debate...
36 - Deano
Oh and Cannon, I did NOTE that the Kwicki-Mart comment was a facicious comparison, so try actually reading the comment prior to your posting a reply.
37 - Deano
sorry that's "facetious"...obviously spelling in the morning is not my strong point.
38 - Cannonshop
'sallright, Deano. I was ducking out and you called me on it, so...
Yah. Palin's probably not as ready as she should be for the big job, if she even wants it. However, I've mainly been focusing on comparing the offerings that are on the table, as it were. McCain might have been able to choose better, but maybe not-pickings are damned slim, and he pissed off a LOT of people during the Primaries and before them. I'm almost wondering if the candidates "Of Stature" refused one-and-all to run alongside the man, and so he was left with the back-benchers, and Palin could be persuaded, where Romney or Jindal wouldn't.
Be that as it may, when you have the choices we have, then it's worth comparing her, not to Biden, who's clearly got the experience, but to the chosen front-runner for the party opposite. Why?
Similar ages, first of all. They're both in their forties, from roughly the same generation-the split is about the same in age as myself and my older sister. they're from the same generation. Their experiences and beliefs contrast markedly, which lends to comparisons because when you match Biden to McCain, you're comparing old-pol to old-pol, with many fewer differences in outcomes.
and you, Deano, have missed something yourself...
what are Obama's Policies?
If you want to talk policies and issues, it's important to have some policies and issues to talk about.
for instance, we know where Palin sits on earmarks-because she went after Ted Stevens' bridge-to-nowhere. We know her policies about corruption-because she's gone after corrupt officials and defeated them. We know where she is on trade, because she's negotiated trade deals. In short, we KNOW her Policies, not just her opinions, but what she's willing to put effort into making happen, because she's put effort into making it happen (or not happen).
Are All of her policies as governor right? Probably not. I have doubts about "Windfall Taxes" and the way she got rid of a corrupt state-trooper with a DUI record and domestic violence (tasering an eleven year old among other things) IS questionable. (that the guy deserved it isn't, but that's a matter of opinion and someone probably disagrees vehemently with me and can probably provide backing.)
But, for a governor in her first term, she's done a hell of a lot more than many governors do in three terms, and without the blinding party loyalties that allow festering corruption akin to that of Washington State or Chicago.
with two inexperienced candidates, the one that has SOME results you can look at, is better than the one with NO results to examine.
What you consistently miss, Deano, is that a lot of Palin supporters look at what she's done, in the time she's done it, and while we may not agree with EVERYTHING she's done, the balance outweighs the disagreement in significance for us, just as, I'm sure, Obama supporters look upon his public tact, oratory, written words, and idealism, and those balance out with more weight in their perceptions than his record (or lack thereof) as a Legislator.
Another, shorter way to put it, is that Sarah might not be ready for the Oval Office, but if she is not, then Obama certainly is not.
and what amuses me, is that Palin gets compared with Obama (a fight she wins just on weight of doing rather than talking about doing in my eyes), rather than Biden, (a fight that maybe the Palin-bashers could get more traction on, but unlikely to change minds when the job is PRESIDENT and the candidates are McCain and Obama.)
It's not enough to have ideals, it's not enough to act on ideals, you have to act on the Correct ideals-or, to mangle someone else's statement (I don't remember who said it)
"Good intentions are meaningless without Action."
Weighing the options available, Palin Has Done, whereas Obama has simply had good intentions.
39 - mburton
Very nicely written piece however please redo your math. If Governor Palin was born in 64 she is not 46. Since she is only three years older then myself.
Besides that Palin is the reason I will be voting for McCain.
40 - Deano
Cannon,
I understand your point regarding Obama's relative lack of experience and frankly I don't disagree. The Dems that spin his 6 years in the Senate as some sort of magical transformation into thick billowy piles of experience are absolutely as full of batshit as the GOP spinners for Palin.
As I noted in a previous comment - if experience is all that matters in a presidential race, then very probably neither deserves to be in the race. Obama's claim to experience is almighty thin, and his success rests far more on his intelligence, his oratory skills and his overall personage than on any combination of experience.
I suspect his insider knowledge of party politics and Washington would stand him in better stead then Palin but McCain himself has probably forgotten more than Obama ever knew about the ins and outs, so there really isn't a comparison.
So yes, policy and direction is where the discussion probably needs to happen. Unfortunately most elections seem to hinge on perception and good soundbites. That probably is bad for McCain.
It will be an interesting show to watch.
41 - Cannonshop
And Deano, if we're going Policy/Direction, then we are still stuck at the same point- Palin's policy direction is pretty obvious-so obvious she doesn't need to talk about it.
Obama's direction is all talk, and much of it mired in speculations and "Nuance". In schoolyard terms, his hands have never had to cash the checks his mouth writes. He's never HAD to deliver, and has never voluntarily delivered, Results.
His education record speaks to someone who has never sat clerk for a judge, but sat on the least-quoted edition of the Harvard Law Review. He's never called to seat a committee he chairs other than his election committee, his votes after all this time can be tallied on your fingers-if you remove "Present" from the tally.
and nobody, but nobody can demonstrate a single bill this man has sponsored, or co-sponsored, in all of his Legislative Career.
That speaks to Policy, Deano. It speaks to policy, it speaks to effectiveness, it speaks to all those 'intangibles' like his actual Knowledge of Washington, his actual skill as a statesman, his fitness to even be running for second-banana.
All he's got on his side, are some dubious statements and a pretty face. With Palin, we can cross-reference her record (such as it is) with her statements and campaign promises, we can measure her effectiveness as a negotiator by examining the Pipeline deal, we can examine her budgetary prowess by looking at the budgets she's signed into law, we can measure her ability to work with others by her relations with her Legislature, we can assess her priorities by her actions, and we can assess her ability to achieve those priorities in terms of her job performance.
In other words, there are Policies that we CAN evaluate with Palin, because she's got a record.
Obama has no record. He's tabula-rasa, a blank slate that anyone can apply their own perceptions to, his policies are nicely vague enough that, again, anyone can interpret them any of a million ways and have an equal chance of being correct-because there is no basis in his actions to compare them.
One of the most telling signs of a con-artist, is that the con-artist can be all things, to all people, without ever revealing anything that can be confirmed as true. Such a person HAS NO POLICIES TO EXAMINE save shameless self-promotion.
42 - Silas Kain
If Americans transferred their displeasure with Congress to the Presidential election, Obama would lose, period. Perhaps we should focus on Congress this time around. Or better yet perhaps we should begin the movement now for term limits in both houses. Six years for Representatives, 12 years for Senators and buh-bye. This is something that never seems to get discussed in the political debate yet in my eyes it is a topic that deserves our immediate attention if we are to achieve real election reform.
43 - Cannonshop
Well, Silas, there WAS a movement to impose term-limits on Congresscritters, Senators and other empty-suited scum, but former Speaker Tom Foley got the courts to kill it after it passed by a pretty significant Majority.
44 - Cannonshop
Well... I found something Obama did. Why can't Obama-fans find it?
Obama's achievements part one
Notice: it's the real deal. This happened some time ago, it should have been among the FIRST things Obama supporters reach for, since it involves foreign policy experiences, bipartisanship, diplomacy.
I'm still not intent to vote for the man, but damn it, it would be really, really nice if Obamabots knew something more about their candidate than his glowing smile and sonorous voice.
45 - Silas Kain
Interesting read, Cannonshop, thanks for the link. Does nothing to convince me to support him. The only way I would have is had he selected Hillary. But he said "No, Mamma"! and now I say NObama.
46 - John
Newt Gingrich and many others have been touting Palin for quite some time, she's known in the political circles, Alaska is at the center of energy policy,...not to diminish Adam's Blogs influence, but it takes a little more than a blogger to make someone pick a VP quite frankly.
47 - K
If Palin, John, and Cindy would film the state of the union address as some sort of threesome porn movie then I would trust their family values more.
Proper sexual technique is important, and I think we should use our patriot act powers to film the next president in the white house bedroom to make sure that they have received proper sexual education.