In Oklahoma, a State Senator is pushing for legislation that could give repeat child molesters the death penalty. According to KTEN News,
Repeat child molesters are becoming more and more an issue today. They are set free, only to shatter the life of another innocent child. Oklahoma Senator Jay Paul Gumm is committed to making Oklahoma the safest state possible for your children.
The Senator has written legislation to ensure that repeat child molesters face the toughest penalty possible. It's called Senate Bill 1747. It would make repeat child molesters subject to life in prison without parole or even the death penalty.
Only thing, we used to have such laws where rapists were given the death penalty. Then the Supreme Court said that was cruel and unusual punishment. As such we went several years with no death penalties, because they were illegal (aka unconstitutional). As a supporter of the death penalty, I believe this particular law might get thrown out in another Supreme Court case. Give them life in prison, but death I don't think will fly on Constitutional grounds.
Senator Gumm is confident this new bill will pass in the Senate and become a law. However, as I said, I am not so sure. I would love to hear what each of you think. Is there another way to keep these despicable human beings that prey on our young off the streets? I would like to see all the states become safer from these people. Question is how do we do it?
And that's what I think! And now for your comments...
Kevin Surbaugh, of Topeka, KS owns KevinsView.com and is an ordained minister (97) who spent 2 yrs (95-96) with the ministry of Jesus People USA, which runs Cornerstone Festival in western IL and operates Grrr Records at its headquarters in Chicago, IL.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Michael J. West
I'm one of those people stuck in the gray area between hating the death penalty and recognizing that it's sometimes just. So I don't know if my opinion would be much help.
But as for how, besides the death penalty, we can deal with child molesters? Forced sterilization. Perhaps this would also be considered cruel and unusual, but it would certainly be appropriate to the crime.
2 - Bing
How about bringing back penal colonies not only for child molestors but all violent repeat offenders.
We find a nice little remote island in the pacific and put all these animals on it. NO houses, running water, no electricity, no beds.. nothing.
Have a plane that flies by once a week with some rotten meat, stale bread and some bottled mexican tap water.
Also there'd be a helicopter gunship on a nearby island that would patrol the waters around the penal colony to make sure there are no escapes and to fly over the island and blast any makeshift shelters the prisoners have made.
One last thing. Any liberal judge who gives a childe molester/murder a lightweight sentence will also be sent to this island.
3 - Silas Kain
This is a tough area for me. There are many factors which contribute to why a person becomes a child molester. I'm not advocating it, just laying otut the facts. As someone who was molested as a child, I know this first hand. I know what contributed to my abuser's deviance. It doesn't make it right, but it does lend credence to the importance of education and healthy discussion of sex from the earliest ages.
That being said, I do believe that any convicted child molester who has sexually abused and subsequently murdered a child should be put to death, period. There is no compromise. It's one thing to take a child's innocence. But to do so with death resulting deserves nothing short of a mandatory death sentence.
4 - Dave Nalle
This ties in peculiarly to my article on the British National Party. The death penalty for child molestors is also one of their big issues. Not to say that it's automatically a nazi/totalitarian issue, but it does seem awfully extreme.
Dave
5 - Dawn
I have zero problem with executing those who sexually abuse anyone say under the age of 13, and clearly if there is violence against the victim of any kind, there should be no question.
That said, I am willing to accept life in prison without parole for offenders. And really, what excuse is there for "repeat" offenders. Anyone who molests a child should NEVER, EVER be given an opportunity to do it again.
That is a huge freaking duh!
I like the way they think in Oklahoma, it's about damn time someone in our government take violence and sexual abuse against children seriously.
6 - Steve S
I have zero problem with executing those who sexually abuse anyone say under the age of 13,
What if the assailant was 18 and it was consensual? I know that in the eyes of the law, a 12 year old cannot consent, but what I mean is what if it wasn't by force and the assailant was 18. By your statement here, it would still be a death penalty.
Isn't force against any weaker person bad? A woman cannot defend herself (in many cases) against the physical force of a 280 pound man. If the woman is 110 pounds, she's experiencing roughly the equivalent of what a 12 year old would experience against a larger assailant. So death for violence against some weaker victims is okay but not others? So do we do the death penalty for all sexual crimes?
It's a slippery slope to me. As a taxpayer, I would support having to fork over the money for a lifetime behind bars for the guilty party, I know not all taxpayers want that though, but once we start expanding what the death penalty covers, who's to say where it stops?
7 - Baronius
This is a toughie. I think I believe that capital punishment should be reserved for murder (or treason), but on a visceral level, why should we even wait for a repeat offense before executing a pedophile? Usually, policy should follow reason rather than emotion, but I'm not sure what is right in this case.
Michael mentions forced sterilization. To the extent that molestation is a sex crime, sterilization makes sense. To the extent that it's a crime of violence, it's ineffective. You've just taken the angriest, most asocial person in the world and given him something to be very angry about. You've lopped off what for many men is a big part of their identity, and no doubt a bigger part of the molester's identity. I can't imagine that things would end well. Then there are female sexual abusers, and other things a male can do, and other stuff I don't want to think about.
One last comment. We have a moral duty to protect the prison population, an obligation that we've failed to live up to in the US. Sexual violence is common in prison. That's a whole separate topic, I know. But somewhere along the line, not executing sexual predators becomes cruel and unusual punishment for the rest of the incarcerated.
8 - paul
Steve,
You are comparing apples and oranges when you put a child molestor in the same category as an 18 y/o having consensual sex with a 14 y/o. The law doesn't put them in the same category either. By the way, there is something wrong with the pathetic 18 y/o that has sex with a 12 y/o. Many times in child molestation cases, it isn't by force because the child doesn't know any better and just goes along with the adult.
Your point about physically weaker victims doesn't hold much water either, because then if the woman weighed more than the man there would be no crime committed...right?
9 - Steve S
Paul, research Matthew Lymon in Kansas. He was 18 years old when he had oral sex with someone who was 2 weeks short of turning 18. He is serving a 17 year prison term for it.
The law doesn't make distinctions, which was my point. Notice the italicized part of my comment, that is what someone else actually said. I was throwing out a hypothetical for consideration, since that comment didn't make a distinction either.
10 - Steve S
correction, he was 17 (a minor) who had consensual oral sex with a 15 year old.
11 - anon
The correct spelling would be Matthew Limon.
12 - Nancy
Every study on the subject finds that recidivism among pedophiles is 100%. Even avoidance therapy techniques don't work on these guys. How they got that way is immaterial. Understanding their backgrounds or empathy with their 'pain' is immaterial. They are dangerous, vicious - and unregenerate. As such, like any dangerous, vicious, and unregenerate animal, they must be destroyed. Not warehoused at public expense. Not given years of therapy in hopes of non-existant rehabilitation and repentance. Destroyed.
13 - Nunzia
I have to agree. Even if this law passes in the state legislature, the Supreme Court would easily knock it down. You have to also remember that there is somewhat of a growing consensus that child molestors are suffering from a sickness or mental illness. There would be a good deal of protest from the psychological community to impose even life sentences on those convicted of this heinous crime. The Supreme Court did strike down capital punishment for rapists so I doubt whether or not they'd let it slide for child molestors or rapists...
14 - Nancy
It sounds to me like this is headed to a point where despite general public support, the USSC is going to eventually deem that no crime, however vile, and no criminal, however violent or dangerous, is worthy of execution. What then? Will the only answer to eliminating these vermin & protecting the public be vigilantism - taking them out before the courts have a chance to get their over-protective noses into it? I hate the idea, but it does seem to me as if increasingly the courts are more intent on protecting the rights of criminals than they are in redressing the wrongs of victims or protecting the public.
15 - Felix Evans
I don't know where you get your 'facts' from Nancy, since the recidivism rate amongst paedophiles is not 100%. Even a basic search on Google will provide evidence to support this. One article quotes a recidivism rate of 52% for child molesters at the end of a study. I wouldn't say that this wasn't high, but it most definately is not 100%.
Definitions of recidivism are also variable, as you can see from this article:
http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/Articles/sexoffenders.htm
As for warehousing people at public expense, did you know that it costs on average $160,000 extra to execute someone than to jail them for 20 years?
Are the wrongs of victims really redressed by executing their attacker? Do you think a 10 year old rape victim is going to feel any better knowing that the person who violated her is dead?
Four brief reasons why the death penalty should not be used in these (or any) cases:
1. An innocent person may be executed.
2. There is little evidence to show that the death penalty acts as a deterrent for the crimes to which it is applied. It is unlikely it would be a detterent in these cases.
3. The state has no legitimate authority to kill its citizens - the function of the state is to protect people from each other, and to provide essential services.
4. All of the rights of government derive from the rights of individuals. Since no citizen has the right to kill another citizen, the government does not have this right either.
16 - Susan G.
I support the death penalty for child molesters. I think we need to acknowlege as a society that people who abuse children cannot be salvaged and they need to either be put to death or locked away someplace forever.
Earlier posts quoting the recidivism rate are bothersome for me. The published rate I read is 4%, I believe. However, the 4% are the ones who are CAUGHT a second time. I believe the rate probably is much, much higher because I honestly cannot see how someone who could harm a child can ever be cured. I support the death penalty for pedophiles, but I fear that if it were instituted, there would be an even greater burden of proof on prosecutors and maybe fewer would be convicted than now.
17 - Luz AlgarÃn
If we were in the nation of Israel, 2.000 years ago, child molesters would be stoned to death.
Can anyone inform me: my former brotherin-law molested my niece. Can I make it public?
Court Ruling:
Due to Article 73 (33 L.P.R.A. Sec. 3412) "a victim of sexual abuse has 5 years to file charges against the victimized if the victim was over 18 at the time of the crime. If the victim was less than 18 at the time of the crime, he or she has 5 years after reaching adulthood (18) to file charges" the charges were dropped.
18 - sonia
Society can't think rationally long enough to deal with a solution to child sexual abuse (CSA). Curing someone of a sexual desire for children (pedophiles-different from child molesters) takes time and effort. Signs of this behavior are often exhibited during a child's teenage years. Nearly 40% of CSA is perpetrated by other CHILDREN. How about, instead of killing all CSA offenders we actually try raising healthier human beings from early on?
19 - shamonique ashley
i think that these sick people who prey on our children to have a mandatory life sentence, no second chances, no parole. it isnt fair to our children to keep letting these animals back on the streets to hurt another child. i also think that the dealth penalty isnt a good idea, let them suffer in prison for life.
20 - Mary
Most people who have repeatedly experienced sexual abuse as children live in constant pain, terror and shame because of this. They are psychologically scarred for life and will never feel normal again. Unfortunately, society doesn't seem to take the issue of child sexual abuse seriously. It makes me question just how much human beings value the life of an innocent child. I believe that child molesters deserve the death penalty, in an ideal and absolutely fair justice system, for causing a lifetime of pain and suffering of other human beings. If people truly understood the effect sexual abuse has on a child, I'm certain that anyone would agree. Currently, about 1/3 girls and 1/7 boys are sexually abused by the age of 18. This sickness must be stopped.
21 - s dumont
I am a survivor of two FEMALE adolescent offenders, and can assure you that my case is not so much "rare" as it is under-reported. What we really need to be considering, is why these people become offenders in the first place. Before we go "offing" them we need to say that we truly did all that we could to help them. The problem is that most sex offender programs are less than affective, because they are lax in reaching the root of the problem. I happen to know that most sexual offenders have also themsleves been molested, and that far from justifies it. But what it means to me, is that I too could have followed that path, and certainly understand the pattern. I am grateful that I did not become an offender, but if I had, would hope that someone would have taken the time to really understand what happens to the mind of a sexual assult victim. It has taken me many years to come to where I can speak openly, and hope that we can provide acknowledgment for victims of ALL types of offenders!
22 - myra
i didn't really read what others have said. I think death is too kind to a child molester. They need to spend the rest of their lives with the inmates that hate them and abuse them everyday. Maybe then they will know what they did to the child for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately, they usually are in protective custody. Too bad no one can get to them. A VERY slow and VERY painful death is what they deserve. And it should come from the family(The mother, father,sister, brother, etc) of the one that was molested. An eye for and eye...
23 - maureen
I abhor opponents of the death penalty! Who are you vehemently trying to protect? The victim or the perpetrator? I can tell you as a victim, it screwed up my life for a long time. It probably even affects me today, though I thought I've dealt with it. This crime affects the SPIRIT of a person forever. It confuses sex with love. It damages a person/child for life! It's hard, rather next to impossible to heal/reform these scumbags. I want to help enact the death penalty for these child killers, because that's what they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No parole or death, they're the ONLY options. Please, someone tell me how I can help enact this legislation.
Thank you,
Maureen
24 - sr
Just found this Blog by Kevin Surbaugh. What is so sad it started 1-27-06. Thats almost 4 months ago and Im #24 with a comment. Where is the concern? Where is the outrage? America is more focused on American Idol, Who's the greatest guitarist, ete etc. Yes Im pissed off.
Bing#2. Right on dude.
Sonia#8. Try raising healthier human beings from early on. Are you serious? That kind of ignorant liberal thinking is why were having this discussion. GET REAL. DUH.
Myra#22. A very Slow and very painful death I like. Let me just have a chance to inflick torture. I'll do it as a free service and would let the family view it. Would also give them a free DVD, sounds and all.
Maureen#23. How do you enact legislation when America has their heads up their own butt's. America would say to you Maureen, like Clark Cable said in Gone With The Wind. Frankly Maureen I dont give a dam.
The death penalty is to easy Maureen. You just go to sleep with no pain and dont wake up.
Would like a life sentence for the these maggot invested perverts. Give them a 5gal bucket filled with petroleum jelly which he will offer as a gift to his life-time cell mate, BIG HORNEY BUBBA who stand's 7'5" and weights 498lbs. This is enacting legislation.
For all you human debris, maggot invested, low life perverts that would harm a child I say to you, your only protection is the law. I would kill you in the blink of an eye. Thats after my torture program.
Will copy this blog, comments, including my own. For certain much will be deleated. BC, If you care about innocent children, DONT EDIT PLEASE. LET THIS FLY.
Thanks,
sr
25 - Jet in Columbus
Here's the best damned reason for NOT having the death penalty for rape you self-righteous hypocrite!
Man Cleared by DNA Leaves Ohio Prison
COLUMBUS, Ohio, Dec. 15, 2005
(AP) A man who spent seven years behind bars for the rape and murder of his mother-in-law was released Thursday after DNA evidence from a cigarette butt helped clear him.
Clarence Elkins, 42, walked out of the Mansfield Correctional Institution with his wife, Melinda.
Elkins was convicted in the 1998 rape and murder of Judith Johnson, 58, as well as the rape of her 6-year-old granddaughter. He was sentenced to life in prison and would not have been eligible for parole until 2054,
DNA analysis of a pubic hair and other biological material on the victims showed that Elkins was not the killer, said Bill Canterbury, spokesman for the Summit County prosecutor's office, which tried the case in 1998.
Also, Elkins helped secure a DNA sample of the investigation's current focus _ fellow inmate Earl Gene Mann _ by retrieving a cigarette butt Mann had used. And authorities said a DNA analysis connected Mann to the slayings.
Elkins learned of his impending release from his wife, who said she told him: "Pack your bags, you're coming home baby."
"When my wife told me I was coming home today for good, I was just overwhelmed with joy and tears of joy. I was amazed it was so soon. I thought it was going to drag out," Elkins said in a telephone interview before his release.
Mann, 32, is serving a seven-year sentence for raping three girls. He has not been charged with the offenses for which Elkins went to prison, but Canterbury said he recently failed five polygraph tests about his role in the crimes.
Mann had a relationship with a woman who lived near one of the victims, Canterbury said.