Are you ready for the roundup? Those unAmerican blogs you're reading are dangerous, so there's room for you in America's new concentration camps.
I'm sometimes amused and often depressed by the crazy things that those on the extreme left and the extreme right come up with in their endless quest for grand and improbable conspiracies. But when they find something they agree on then I know that we've really moved into that special altered reality where the only thing that protects our reason is a well-fitted tinfoil hat.…
Article comments
26 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I copied this from a different thread...
"Where do they stand on straight, white men?
I hear they're building 'detention camps'..."
They are not the DINOsaurs or the GOP, but they are building detention camps. Most are built already. And the camps are not for "straight white men" or Arabs or blacks.
There are presently "quarantine rooms" in almost all airports. Ask airport officials about them, and if they admit to their existence at all, they will tell you it is a preparation for the bird flu. But any room where you can be locked in from the outside is, for practical purposes, a jail.
Let's repeat that last line for emphasis:
any room where you can be locked in from the outside is, for practical purposes, a jail.
As Dave points out, they are FEMA. And FEMA is so busy building jails that they have lost their main raison d'être, "flood and mud." Witness Katrina, flood and mud personified, and FEMAS's performance therein.
Now this has been going on for some time and is not just the product of the Bush administration. Pray tell, Dave, what is the point of all these detention camps? And don't tell me that if I just lie down put my tooth under the pillow, and go to sleep and be a good boy, I'll find a 10 shekel coin under my pillow in the morning.
27 - mike
Good article dave. By the way as someone said us/britain/israel is setting up the ttal war in mideast but wait if one looks carefully most of other eurpean countries had either tacitly or openly supported american invasion, so did most of mid-east refimes excluding iran and syria. Whoever crows about civil rights being lost in this country are self-deluding, you cant have security and at the same time not spy, u cant protect us without arrests, u cant protect without monitoring
28 - Mark Bellinghaus
Thank you, Dave! For this alarming vision. Is it too late already? Where can I order one of those tin-foil hats, or wouldn't be better to get a helmet instead?!
Also Thank you, Ruvy in Jerusalem, for your comment. Very telling and deep.
There is not one week going by in which this current President isn't involved in a scandal! Just today - one of his aides, Claude Allen was caught for theft!
Where are we going in this country? Does anybody care? When journalissm has become corrupt and people, like myself, have no other choice then using a blog - to warn others of a huge scandal, that is about to go around the world...!
Disgusting.
I still love this country, but it was better in the past, what is happening now, was created out of GREED!
Like Gloria Steinem said, last night on "Real Time with Bill Maher":
"Better a President who makes LOVE than WAR!"
Is it too late, already?
29 - nitpicker
This article reads:
"This hardly bears even a passing relationship to the real world. Picking up less than a half-dozen active terrorists who took up arms agains the US is pretty far from a mass revocation of citizenship and indefinite detention program."
And picking up less than a half-dozen active terrorists would so overwhelm our court system that their trials must be secret?
I have no sympathy for traitors, but I believe Americans have the right to know what their government is doing.
That right is the key issue here.
30 - Dave Nalle
And picking up less than a half-dozen active terrorists would so overwhelm our court system that their trials must be secret?
And what 'secret' trials of American citizens arrested for terrorism would those be? McVeigh, Nichols, Padilla, Hamdi - all of those trials have been public, covered by the media and well documented.
I have no sympathy for traitors, but I believe Americans have the right to know what their government is doing.
And the point here is that we DO know what the government is doing. All of the things which make up this conspiracy theory are documented. They all have legitimate purposes which are funded with public appropriations. What makes this such a perfect example of conspiratorial paranoia is that those promoting it say that the legitimate and public reasons are just a smokescreen and that there's a whole secret and undocumented behind the scene plan which is what these camps and various laws are really for. It works great for them because they can say "look, here are the camps" and have solid physical evidence and then never have to back up how they determined that the use of these camps was something other than what was stated publicly.
Dave
31 - nitpicker
Americans have the right to know what their government is doing.
Dave thinks he knows.
Ignorance is bliss.
32 - Dave Nalle
I certainly don't know everything the government is doing, but in the absence of evidence, making things up based just on paranoia seems like a really bad course to choose.
Dave
33 - RJ Elliott
I listen to Art Bell from time to time. A lot of his guests are people who try to get the listeners to believe in their own kooky conspiracy theories. And I'm sure a lot of the listeners do wind up believing the tripe.
The sad thing is, a lot of Americans are willing to believe whatever you tell them, as long as it is interestingly mysterious and also confirms their own irrational fears.
Thank you, Dave, for being a voice of reason in the wilderness of the moon-bats...
34 - nitpicker
Americans have the right to know what their government is doing.
No conspiracy here.
Unless Dave wants to see one.
35 - Dave Nalle
RJ, you clearly don't listen to Art Bell enough, since George Noory has been doing the show for almost two years since Bell semi-retired.
If you want to hear REAL conspiracy radio, try listening to the Alex Jones show. You can find what 10 watt FM station in someone's basement is broadcasting it in your area at www.infowars.com.
Bell/Noory isn't so bad because it's mostly goofy and clearly ridiculous. What Jones puts out is genuinely dangerous.
Dave
36 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Mr. Nalle, you still have not answered my question. Why is FEMA building all these detention camps? I don't want to hear the answers of a conspiracy theorist - I know at least one in detail. I want to know the thoughts of the elitist pig in Texas.
The building has been going on for several admininstrations now - it has not all been done on the Shrub's watch. That means that this is not necessarily the Shrub's ball game. And nobody knew about the bird flu in 1992. You pick it up from there, Mr. Nalle.
37 - troll
Ruvy - please tell me that you don't think that they are for the Jews in the US
troll
38 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Troll,
What I thnk about this don't matter very much. I'm as much in the dark as you are. The conspiracy theories I am privy to say just that, though. But I'm not pushing them. I'd rather, that if you left to come home, you left because you understood that the Almighty would do you in otherwise...
It's not entirely unreasonable that the detention cmps be built for Jews. Non-Jews in America have an image of American Jews as pretty well off. Whether you fit the image is not all that important. When I was living on the street and wanted a room at a Catholic shelter, the chif social worker rubbed his huge jaw as he asked me three times - "are you sure you're Jewish?"
But from what I've learned, there are too many of the camps to be just for Jews.
39 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
And Troll,
My idle speculations do not change the fact that our dear author has still not answered my question.
40 - troll
(Ruvy - no right of return nor any home now or in the hereafter for this semi-Semitic outsider...a Jew through paternal blood only - born and raised outside the Community and the Covenant...an abomination in the sight of studied men and G-d
troll)
41 - Earl
Nothing new really, right wing Christian Identity groups were talk about this 15 or 20 years ago.
This is just a rehash and been "just discovered" or Uncovered. Pay attention, this is old news
42 - Dave Nalle
Mr. Nalle, you still have not answered my question. Why is FEMA building all these detention camps? I don't want to hear the answers of a conspiracy theorist - I know at least one in detail. I want to know the thoughts of the elitist pig in Texas.
I didn't realize you had asked this. Much of it is already provided in the article.
The building has been going on for several admininstrations now - it has not all been done on the Shrub's watch. That means that this is not necessarily the Shrub's ball game. And nobody knew about the bird flu in 1992. You pick it up from there, Mr. Nalle.
Very little of it has gone on during the Bush administration, in fact. The programs involved date back to the 1950s and 1960s. There are a number of different reasons for the construction of the camps. The original one was fear of an outbreak of war or disease within the US which would require evacuation of large numbers of urban civilians who would need some place to be housed. That was the concern of the 1950s and 1960s. Then in the 1970s there was concern that war in the third world might require the housing of large numbers of refugees, so the camps were maintained and expanded for that purpose. Today, as demonstrated by Hurricane Katrina, it's quite possible that a major natural disaster within the US might make these camps necessary to house evacuated population. And finally, as President Bush has pointed out, in event of the avian flu or a similar threat, the ability to quarantine large populations is highly desirable.
So there are many legitimate reasons why these facilities exist which have nothing to do with a political agenda. If there is a political agenda here, it's pork barrelling, because these facilities - which are mostly converted former military bases - are a way to keep generating some revenue from those former bases for the states and communities where they are located.
The reality is that most of hese 'camps' are more theoretical than real at this point. There are all sorts of sites which have been designated as potential locations for these facilities but which have not been maintained or gone through the conversion necessary to actually function for that purpose. It's an idea which the government has paid lip service to in the interest of preparedness, but god help anyone who actually has to be housed in a former military base which has essentially been abandonned for 40 years.
Dave
43 - nitpicker
Actually building construction 40 years ago was better than today.
Dust off a few cobwebs and our troops living in tents in Iraq would welcome them.
44 - Dave Nalle
Last I checked we couldn't move whole square miles of US property directly to Iraq, though that would indeed be a neat technology.
Dave
45 - nitpicker
Our troops would welcome living in these buildings wherever they are.
46 - Dave Nalle
Well, a lady down the street lives in a house relocated from an abandonned military base - it was the base CO's house - so perhaps it's possible. I'm sure you'd like to pay the taxes necessary to pay the expense of moving bricks and mortar 3000 miles and reassembling them.
Dave
47 - nitpicker
Our troops would welcome living in these buildings wherever they are.
No need to move any bricks.
48 - RJ Elliott
"RJ, you clearly don't listen to Art Bell enough, since George Noory has been doing the show for almost two years since Bell semi-retired."
But Art comes on during the weekends!
"If you want to hear REAL conspiracy radio, try listening to the Alex Jones show."
I believe I've heard of it. Right around 9/11, I was working with this guy who was a big fan of the show (I think it was that show, anyways).
He once took me aside, and in complete confidence explained that all of the elites in the US go to some annual event in the woods in Northern California and dress up as giant owls and engage in human sacrifice (or something like that). He was whispering as he spoke, and looking cautiously from side to side. And he was being totally serious.
It was difficult to extract myself graciously from that conversation, as you might imagine... :-/
49 - MCH
Re #48;
Maybe you could've changed the subject by giving him your description of Max Cleland's appearance.
50 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Comment #40 - Just come on over with the family and let this old goat of a Jewboy figure out the details... It's a great ime of year for a trip. It ain't too hot. The boidies go tweet tweet, there is the beach at Eilat...
51 - Dave Nalle
He once took me aside, and in complete confidence explained that all of the elites in the US go to some annual event in the woods in Northern California and dress up as giant owls and engage in human sacrifice (or something like that). He was whispering as he spoke, and looking cautiously from side to side. And he was being totally serious.
You have indeed been talking to a disciple of Jones. That's the Bohemian Grove Society, a group which Jones actually infiltrated and video taped. It's basically a morale-building getaway for businessmen who run around drunk in their underwear and act like fratboys for a weekend, but the conspiracy freaks are convinced that they go into the woods to worship a giant owl statue and sacrifice babies to pagan gods.
Dave
52 - troll
if you go for the all-American black ops conspiracy (camps included) and have the time to pursue it then you have the time for a good book sort of on the topic...let me recommend Pynchon's Vineland
Dave - the beauty of this post is that with statements like *There is an increasingly common mindset which seems to always assume the worst* it smacks of the same catchy 'doom and gloom'/'our world is threatened' emotion of a good conspiracy theory
headline: Wacky Conspiracy Theorists Avoid Real Problems - Sap the Will of the Electorate...
man the barricades - !
fact is piss poor positive political participation in the US has been a problem for years and has little to do with this particular administration - IMO it reflects a rational assessment of our improperly so-called 'representative' government
troll
53 - troll
(Ruvy - first ya tell me that yer 'bout to get the holy shite kicked out a' ya...and then you invite me over
not sure how to take that
do you think the position of blacksmith for the Horses of the Apocalypse is open - ?
troll)
54 - Nancy
Damn! They've infiltrated the Brownie Scouts again.
But on a serious note, what are citizens supposed to think, when this administration keeps doing things like writing energy policies WITH the energy companies - and insisting it's "secret", claiming Executive Privilege - and secrecy - on anything & everything, whether merited or not; spying on US citizens, most of them, as the NSA admits, totally unrelated to any kind of terrorist connections - and insisting it's secret; deliberately blowing the cover of an operative who IS supposed to be secret - and then defending itself by saying that what it knew, what it told, and who told it, are all "secret"; concocts a business sweetheart deal with Bush bedfellows from Dubai - in "secret"; and that this president, Adolph W. Bush, has unlimited powers to do what he wants, when he wants, and whatever he chooses to do is "secret"? What the hell are we supposed to think? I personally don't think they're building concentration camps for the Opponents of Adoplh W. Bush - they'd need someplace the size of Canada for that - but I'm not surprised, given the ample material BushCo has provided since Day 1 of his administrations, that others do think so, or ascribe other malevolent rationales to them. Like it or not, BushCo has from the get-go soiled its own nest with their furtive, shady, and unnecessarily secretive behavior: all secrets, all the time, and the public be damned is their very UN-secret motto which is about the only thing they haven't kept secret. The entire Bush/Cheney coterie need to be behind bars asap. Or better yet, in a camp they can't get out of.
55 - Dave Nalle
But on a serious note, what are citizens supposed to think, when this administration keeps doing things like writing energy policies WITH the energy companies
They also consulted with over 100 environmental and consumer groups, Nancy. And who is better qualified to understand energy than energy companies? And might I note that the 5 energy companies they consulted with included the two largest manufacturers of solar energy equipment in the world.
concocts a business sweetheart deal with Bush bedfellows from Dubai - in "secret";
The DP World deal was entirely public and was announced in press releases from the company far in advance of final approval.
I realize you hate Bush a whole lot, but you're just making stuff up here.
Dave
56 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
(Troll,
I pointed you in the places I feel are safe if you come over - Jerusalem and and south...
And yes, we sure could use a blcksmith... ;-) horseshoes, if memory serves, can be used not only on horses)
57 - JP
Nancy, I'm with you on that one--five years into the Cheney energy plan, we have access to Iraqi oil and yet gas prices are over $2 a gallon and oil companies are raking in record profits. And all of a sudden George Bush "discovers" that America is addicted to oil? Dave, I'm not impressed at ALL with the President's energy strategizing, or its environmental protection. Not one bit.
58 - Dave Nalle
oil companies are raking in record profits.
Except that almost all of them did not increase their percentage profit margin and a couple of them actually cut their profit share. The only reason their profits went up was that the price went up and since their profits are a percentage of price they went up too.
And all of a sudden George Bush "discovers" that America is addicted to oil?
Well, he did sign and energy bill last year which had the largest appropriation ever for alternative energy subsidies and research.
Dave, I'm not impressed at ALL with the President's energy strategizing, or its environmental protection. Not one bit.
Compared to the absolute 0 done by previous administrations it looks pretty good to me.
Dave
59 - Brian Sorrell
Dave, I'm curious about where those appropriations are scheduled to go? To universities or industry or both or where? I don't know of any numbers on that (though I haven't really looked either), so if you do, that would prove a useful reference.
I would add that Bush has been no friend to nationally protected lands. I'll try to dig out the reference (if you're interested) to an LA Times article from a year or so ago that was quite informative on the topic. Additionally, the failure to close the loophole that allowed tax breaks on 6000lb. + vehicles (like the Lincoln Navigator), while incentives for hybrid vehicles were phased out was a complete joke. Solar panel incentives (tax breaks) are being phased out as well.
If we could get the tax incentive that my wife's family got on their gas guzzler (Navigator) for a hybrid, we could afford a hybrid right now.
In any case, the fact that previous administrations have not done well with conservation either does not help Bush's case. Heck, Kerry tried pushing coal again, like that was an answer to the energy dependence quandary. It's ridiculous from all sides. So even if in the balance he has done more than others (which is a debatable point), there's a REALLY long way to go.
But you see: this is just my point from above -- this (energy) is a meaningful issue that affects everyone across the board. Why isn't this on every TV station and in every newspaper every day?? Instead we get drivel about Dubai and Cheney's hunting accidents, to name the most recent ridiculous distractions.
Pundits are so good at consumption.
60 - Dave Nalle
Dave, I'm curious about where those appropriations are scheduled to go? To universities or industry or both or where? I don't know of any numbers on that (though I haven't really looked either), so if you do, that would prove a useful reference.
It's way off topic here, but I have some of the info handy for the FY2007 energy budget.
$148 million in subsidies for solar cell research.
$150 million for alternative fuels development
$330 million for 'clean' coal development.
$30 million for battery technology research.
$1.2 billion for hydrogen fuel cell research.
These are all new initiatives over and above the ones already passed in the 2006 budget, which also included the whopping big tax credit for buying hybrid cars.
while incentives for hybrid vehicles were phased out was a complete joke. Solar panel incentives (tax breaks) are being phased out as well.
Where do you get that from? It's just not true. Bush's 2005 energy bill increased the top tax deduction for buying a hybrid vehicle from $2000 to $3400. This tax incentive will be in force until the end of 2010. He also instituted a new federal tax credit for home solar panel installation of $2000. And he's pushing for even higher tax incentives in the future. Plus Bush has raised the CAFE standards for the first time in 20 years.
The phase out you're talking about is an indefinite schedule based on hybrid sales which will phase the incentives out gradually when manufacturers befin selling large numbers of them so that the prices come down through the natural function of the marketplace. It doesn't kick in until they sell at least 60,000 of a hybrid model, and then takes 2 more years to fully phase out.
If we could get the tax incentive that my wife's family got on their gas guzzler (Navigator) for a hybrid, we could afford a hybrid right now.
As of January 1st you can get a $2600 tax break if you buy a Ford Escape hybrid and you can still drive a SUV.
But you see: this is just my point from above -- this (energy) is a meaningful issue that affects everyone across the board. Why isn't this on every TV station and in every newspaper every day?? Instead we get drivel about Dubai and Cheney's hunting accidents, to name the most recent ridiculous distractions.
Because most people find sound energy policy boring and want to be titillated or riled up about meaningless pseudo issues instead.
Dave
61 - JP
Dave, were you also impressed with the research facility Bush toured, where they had fired the workers due to budget cuts and reinstated them before the visit?
Oil company profits come from supply and demand, the prices rose because supply was cut and demand wasn't. I understand the basic economics. Hurricane Katrina wiped out a lot of refinery capacity, but after six months much of that is back online. These enormous profits should be reinvested in alternative fuel research to prevent further price increases. The anti-regulation freaks in the Bush administration would like every state to have a deregulated energy market like California, and look how well that turned out.
Are all of Bush's initiatives going to be funded? I'll believe that when I see it. And when did Bush raise CAFE standards? Our mileage requirements are stuck where they were in the 1980s. Conservative groups constantly argue against raising the standards, saying the vehicles are more dangerous when made lighter, and leading of course to bigger SUVs which skirts the regulation. CAFE needs some serious work, and our technologically gifted country should be producing much more efficient vehicles than it is.
62 - nicole
For one bush sucks!I dont like bush,he caused the war thats going on now.And even though im only in 8th grade i no what im talking about.How can they even think about concintration camps again.Dont they no the histery of what happend!Or is bush dostupid to realize what happend to the people in 1944.Like anne frank.Before was jews.What now gay people!Only god Knows whats going to happen to now.Doent care about anyone but himself!
63 - Dave Nalle
JP, the CAFE standards were raised in the last energy bill Bush signed, and they will be phased in to take effect by 2010.
Dave
64 - RedTard
An alternative to oil will emerge when the market and scientific discoveries reach the required point. If JP is so intent that alternative fuels are the thing I suggest he invest all his money there, or go to work in that sector.
As usual, the left is all about striking fear, lots of talk, and volunteering of other people's money. An alternative to oil will be worth trillions worldwide, I think that is enough incentive to develop in itself.
This is a free society all you commie liberals can donate your money to the commune as you see fit, no one is stopping you. Why must you always be intent on using the government as a weapon to control those you disagree with?
65 - Danny K.
Hey, i came home sat down and went on my computer cause im doing a speech in U.S history,I'm a 10th grader at my high school in oregon. its going to be about U.S History, but im changing it up a little bit and im gonna put in what the history books lie about, I'm going to tell the truth about america giving money to hitler and hitler not getting all his money by selling a newspaper.||Why are U.S history books all lies?||Secondly, It's already been proven that everyone heard bombs going off in the twin towers to make them fall to the ground, some stuff about 911 is: A third building that never got hit also crashed to the ground( this building is keep out of mainstream media), secondly The airfroce is always patroling the coasts, they didnt come to shoot down the " hi-jacked" airplanes because they were told not to. What was the airplane gonna do, shoot back?|| Ok, is all this stuff about 911 a lie? From reading huge amounts of websites i relised that Bush or whoever is telling bush what to do, let 911 happen so that homeland security could come into place. Prove to me that 911 wasnt staged by my goverment, find me a website, find me a book, find me a movie, Find me anything that proves the extremists wrong. I'm beggin for your help cause i havent found any yet, and the more i try the more i find out about what i dont want to know in the first place. Do i want to know about some " astrologists and numerologists " controlling the goverment. Some other things iv seen alot is this " I JUST QUIT THE FBI(CIA,MILITRAY,ECT) AND I HAVE TO TELL U WHAT I FOUND OUT!" Like i read this thing that a guy wrote who claimed to work for the pentagon for 30 years and explained how america was gonna be all prisoners and taken over by 2001, its 2006 right now for me, and that hasent happend yet. Here are some questions on your personal opinion i would like you to answer if you could for me please!?
1. Do you think there is going to be a huge upcoming war (ww3)
2. Have you ever been an extremist?
(Have you ever belived extremists?)
3. Do extremists lie about facts?
66 - Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
George W. Bush is indeed hated and despised. Bush may not be "self-aware" relative to his narcissistic personality disorder. A lot of mentally ill people are oblivious and/or in denial of their mental illness. But Bush is probably aware that he has psychological problems. Bush may quibble over semantics or interpretations or opinions about whether it would be appropriate or fair to say that he has psychological problems of "clinical significance."
George W. Bush is gravely mentally ill and needs help.
It is on the Internet: people are "counting the days til Bush leaves office."
The American people can hardly wait til Bush leaves office. The presidency of Bush has been a nightmare for the American people and for the world. The narcissistic personality disorder of Bush has certainly contributed to what is almost his inability to do anything right.
Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993
67 - timmy O truth
dave nalle kool aid drinker and professional excuse maker for corruption. What a job!!!
68 - timmy O truth
the false left/right paradigm.........a fools paradise.