I'm sometimes amused and often depressed by the crazy things that those on the extreme left and the extreme right come up with in their endless quest for grand and improbable conspiracies. But when they find something they agree on then I know that we've really moved into that special altered reality where the only thing that protects our reason is a well-fitted tinfoil hat.
The latest cause celebre of the fervent fringe is the idea that the all-oppressing state under BusHitler™ is building concentration camps all around the nation in which to imprison dissidents and political undesirables as part of their agenda to create an eternal reich for the Bush dynasty and their political allies.
The starting point is the belief that recent rulings in the Padilla and Hamdi cases lay the groundwork for removing the citizenship rights of US citizens on the slimmest pretext. In these cases the precedent was established that if you take up arms against the US you have essentially forfeited your citizenship and can be treated as a foreign combatant. This isn't an entirely new idea. It's been a basic principle of how convicted traitors are treated since the nation was founded. From this foundation they then extend the argument to extreme lengths and reach the conclusion that the next step is to take away the citizenship of anyone deemed anti-American by the government. Then those people lose the protection of the Constitution and it's off to Gitmo-style detention for an indefinite period for them. Before you know it black vans will pull up to the houses of John Conyers and Juan Cole and they'll have hoods on their heads, electrodes on their nipples and their feet in buckets full of water.
This theory goes hand in hand with the idea that there is a program for the construction of 'secret' camps all over the country to intern these hundreds of thousands of new political prisoners. The idea that these 'concentration camps' exist originates in a nugget of truth. The Department of Homeland Security and/or FEMA have indeed begun construction of camps. This hasn't been done in secret and it's not a new plan. It goes back to the 1950s primarily as a way to deal with a mass displacement of population or the need to quarantine a great many people because of disease. President Bush even mentioned it at the recent conference on the Avian Flu. These facilities are designed to house large numbers of evacuees in event of a health emergency or natural disaster. Alternatively they can also be used by the INS to house illegal aliens prior to deportation, or if there is a sudden mass migration over the border because of a natural disaster or a major civil war in Mexico. Construction has been planned for 50 years, but apparently little progress has been made, despite a substantial $385 million appropriation for construction during the Clinton administration.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - tommyd
Dave, you lose credibility by slamming those people who question government moves and motives as "extreme left and extreme right". That being said, the fact of the matter is that the US Government/UK/Israel are currently setting the stage for total war in the Middle East, or in other words, World War Three.
When and if another terrorist attack occurs in the United States along with the commencement of WWIII and a military draft, America will be in absolute chaos. There will literally be 100's of 1000's of Americans aggressively protesting and/or in open revolt against the government's nefarious actions. What do you think the US Leviathan would do to these people??
It's not beyond the possiblity that the fascist US would readily and quickly imprison Muslims, dissenters, war protesters, draft dodgers, etc. I think the government is preparing for something BIG.
Be careful Dave, you just might get what you wish for.
2 - tommyd
To back up my "conspiracy theories" check out this link from mainstream MSNBC:
Then tell us we're paranoid.
3 - Dave Nalle
TommyD, you are a perfect case study in the wilfull self-deception I'm talking about in this article.
You so want the world to be run by evil conspiracies that you'll believe the most farfetched things just because they legitimize that belief.
I think it's some sort of psychological complex, rather like masochism, where you only feel validated if you're under threat of government oppression 24/7. It's the secular equivalent of the fundamentalist belief in an impending armageddon.
Dave
4 - Dave Nalle
Damn, Tommy. I forgot to mention the incident mentioned in the MSNBC report. It was referenced in one of my sources, and it certainly fits into the pattern of minor bits of unrelated information that can be cobbled together into a crazy conspiracy.
BTW, here's the key quote from the article:
“All reports concerning protest activities have been purged,”
As in, it was a mistake and we corrected it.
Dave
5 - tommyd
Sure Dave, the records have been purged. Sure they have. Trust us at DoD, not the kooky conspiracy theorists.
"Government, like fire, is our most useful servant, if fully controlled by us, its citizens! And government, exactly like fire, becomes our most destructive master, if not fully controlled by the open majority of its constructive, working citizens!" - George Washington
Remember George Washington, Dave, not your hero George W Bush and his Federal Big Brother Leviathan.
So tell me, who's the conspiracy theorist here?
6 - Dave Nalle
You can't control the government if you aren't able to interface with it in the realm of reality rather than the realm of fantasy.
Dave
7 - gonzo marx
Mr Nalle sez...
*In these cases the precedent was established that if you take up arms against the US you have essentially forfeited your citizenship and can be treated as a foreign combatant. This isn't a new idea. It's been a basic principle of how traitors are treated since the nation was founded.*
incorrect...
even a Traitor gets his Rights under the Constitution and is innocent until proven guilty
as far as i am Aware, the ONLY times this has been different in any way has been after Congress has made a Declaration of War (as per the Constitution/War Powers Act)...and even then, it has been considered a "mistake"
example : japanese descended citizens during WW2
just a Thought, and all that's needed
Excelsior!
8 - JELIEL³
BusHitler™... just move one letter around and we get something more accurate ;-)
9 - Dave Nalle
Point taken, Gonzo. Traitors do have to go through due process before losing their citizenship. The Padilla case is sort of unique, and it's a precedent, but what it's not a precedent for is taking away the rights of people in the general public just because they don't get along with the administration.
Dave
10 - gonzo marx
but it IS a precedent for detaining a Citizen , without due proces, for YEARS on a mere accusation by the Government
and, no matter how you want to slice it...
THAT is a fucking crime against the Republic
nuff said?
Excelsior!
11 - Dave Nalle
Absolutely, Gonzo. The vanishingly rare instances where that happens are absolutely unacceptable and should be dealt with and resolved immediately. However, the existence of a tiny number of such incidents does NOT mean that the government is about to lock up every non-violent 'dissident' in a concentration camp.
Dave
12 - Brian Sorrell
tommyd is wrong about Dave slamming "people who question [the] government", unless you take it to be the case that ONLY the extreme right and extreme left question the government. I don't believe that the article makes this claim.
Furthermore, Dave questions the government in the following:
"It distracts from smaller but much more immediate threats posed by the increasingly powerful state. We'd be much better off worrying about day to day perils like property seizure under eminent domain or drug forfeiture laws or the erosion of our national sovereignty or insane pork barrel spending on Capitol Hill."
And this is what I take to be the most important lesson in the article. Conspiratorial distractions, which in a strange way prey on people's vanity, are powerful devices that serve to suppress talk about the bigger issues that appear in smaller print.
The purported erosion of rights that alleged modern concentration camps represent pales in comparison to the deterioration of property rights and accessiblity (the American Dream?) that has resulted from our artificially inflated real estate market. It mystifies me that hardly anyone talks about this sort of thing. And this is only one example of what lurks beneath the superficial petty conspiracy spinning of "liberals" and "conservatives" -- neither of whom are what they call themselves.
Good on you Dave for making a point like this.
13 - Victor Plenty
To safeguard our freedoms we must recognize noncitizens have full rights, and make our laws reflect this fact.
The idea that noncitizens lack rights strikes at the very foundation of the whole concept of rights. By definition, rights are an inherent quality of every human being, regardless of citizenship and independent of any government or law. To accept the idea that noncitizens lack rights is to move toward a concept of "rights" as temporary privileges granted by governments.
This is the exact opposite of unalienable human rights. We may call such government-granted privileges "rights," but that is really a misuse of the word. Real human rights are something nobody truly has unless everybody has them.
14 - Dave Nalle
And this is what I take to be the most important lesson in the article. Conspiratorial distractions, which in a strange way prey on people's vanity, are powerful devices that serve to suppress talk about the bigger issues that appear in smaller print.
Well put, Brian. I resisted using the cliche in the article, but it's a classic example of 'can't see the forrest for the trees' when you freak out over the remote and most horrible possible outcome and ignore the incremental abuses which impact you much sooner and in very real ways.
Dave
15 - JP
Dave, nice article. And I think we do spend too much time and energy on the far-fetched theories, and therefore neglect attention to the more mundane encroachments upon ourselves. However, at the same time, I blogged about conspiracy theories recently myself--and there are too many loose ends for me to write off a theory such as the 'concentration camp' allegation completely. Here are just two:
- Operation Northwoods. Those black-ops plans made it to the level of Joint Chiefs of Staff, but were thankfully rejected.
- Bush's alleged suggestion to paint a US spy plane to look like a UN craft in order to provoke attack by Saddam.
16 - gonzo marx
Brian sez...
*And this is only one example of what lurks beneath the superficial petty conspiracy spinning of "liberals" and "conservatives" -- neither of whom are what they call themselves.*
Quoted for Truth...
the sheer audacious falsity in current political epistemology veneers the vapid Fact that the entire System revolves around personal greed in elected Representatives rather then the Ethic of caring for the People's "general welfare"
Victor sez...
*Real human rights are something nobody truly has unless everybody has them.*
Quoted for Truth...
nuff said?
Excelsior!
17 - RJ Elliott
Lawrence Tribe was on Al Gore's short-list of candidates for the USSC, wasn't he?
18 - Dave Nalle
JP, the thing about the two examples you cite, is that these are exactly the kinds of ideas that get thrown around in a brainstorming session at 4am as hypotheticals and then get quashed by higher ups or in the cool light of day. I'm sure even crazier things have been suggested and in some cases even acted on. Don't forget they tried poisoned cigars on Castro as well as putting depilitory powder in his shoe powder can to make his beard fall out - and those were REAL covert ops.
But the point is that 99% of the crazy stuff doesn't get implemented, and that part of it which does is let through because it's basically harmless or a no-loss situation - your basic hail mary play.
The fact that some people in government have considered all sorts of nuttiness doesn't mean that there's a conspiracy out there brewing. The conspiracy nuts basically have their rational filters turned off, and every possible wild idea that ever got a hearing jumps to the top of their list and they assume it was acted on and is part of some ongoing plan.
That's no way to look at the world. In that worldview they cloned Hitler, there are Nazis on the moon and Judge Crater is a time traveller.
Dave
19 - Dave Nalle
Lawrence Tribe was on Al Gore's short-list of candidates for the USSC, wasn't he?
Now there's a truly terrifying thought. Of the big-name lawyers I could live with Dershowitz on the court, but Tribe would be too much to stomach. It is interesting, though, that the really famous trial and cause-oriented lawyers almost never get nominated.
Dave
20 - troll
a couple of questions:
if one spends his energy rationalizing or denying 'conspiracy theories' does he not set himself up to miss the real ones as they come down the turnpike - think of the Reagan era end run around the Congress
what does it take for a 'plan' (eg - for quarantine in the event of disease outbreak) to become a 'conspiracy' (to control dissent)
-?-
troll
21 - gypsyman
Dave I have to say that you are most definitly the voice of reason on this subject. If I didn't believe they were'nt able to think this far ahead, I'd say that these conspiracy theories were the true disinformation provided by the government, just to keep people from paying attention to all the problems you mention.
The thing is, and this is the strongest arguement against any of the conspiracy theories as well, look at these guys, do you honestly think any of them can plot out any of those theories and implement them?
Once again Dave, thanks for being a voice of reason on this; people really need to get out of their parent's basement a little more often and stay off the Internet for at least a few hours a day.
gypsyman
22 - Dave Nalle
if one spends his energy rationalizing or denying 'conspiracy theories' does he not set himself up to miss the real ones as they come down the turnpike - think of the Reagan era end run around the Congress
You shouldn't just reject them all out of hand, but the rational person has to look at them and try to figure out if there's more supposition holding them together than documentable fact. And when you look at something like Iran-Contra the conspiracy was really very simple and straightforward. It didn't require a great many leaps to connect things together, it was pretty much all right there.
what does it take for a 'plan' (eg - for quarantine in the event of disease outbreak) to become a 'conspiracy' (to control dissent)
It takes an administration willing to become a dictatorship and with the power to basically override the congress, the courts AND the constitution. Despite all the excessive claims of the left there just isn't an iota of evidence to support this accusation against the Bush crew. They're too incompetent to be dictatorial in any real way plus they haven't achieved anything like that consolidation of power. Don't worry about the camps, worry about what they might to do gain the power to turn those camps to a nefarious purpose.
Dave
23 - Dave Nalle
Dave I have to say that you are most definitly the voice of reason on this subject.
Thanks, g-man.
If I didn't believe they were'nt able to think this far ahead, I'd say that these conspiracy theories were the true disinformation provided by the government, just to keep people from paying attention to all the problems you mention.
The presence of the conspiracy theories certainly provides a context where government can get away with some things which they otherwise might not try.
The thing is, and this is the strongest arguement against any of the conspiracy theories as well, look at these guys, do you honestly think any of them can plot out any of those theories and implement them?
Bingo. Bush and his cronies couldn't start a conspiracy to find their way out of a paper sack with a knife.
Dave
24 - Lee Richards
Dave:
Just wondering--You live on a fortified compound outside of Austin; who or what do you feel threatened by?
25 - Dave Nalle
Conspiracy nuts? Heavily armed, militant christians? Tinkers who want to 'pave' my driveway? Or maybe the teardrop tattooed homeboys who tried to rob the house while we were moving in.
But the truth is that the house came this way and given the fact that I have a family and own valuables and live in a remote area, it doesn't seem like such a bad thing to be surrounded by plenty of land with a good fence and a secure gate.
Dave