Hey, just as we're talking about those Reds in the peace movement, that commie org ANSWER sends me an email. What better way to discover their commie intentions than to examine an original piece of evidence from these so called "peace" hippies, eh?
And whaddaya know, it's in there. Somehow, when they're not busy hating America or sparking up some "grass," these peace hippies manage to sneak some Commie propaganda into their so called "anti-war" newsletter. Clever rascals. You always gotta watch 'em.
See if you can spot the commie propaganda in this. You can see it if you look closely. Very closely. It sneaks up on you.
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From: (A.N.S.W.E.R.)
Date: Tue Apr 1, 2003 6:52:24 PM US/Pacific
Subject: Iraqis can't turn off the TV to make the war go away
"The whole world is watching us die"
APRIL 12:
The World Stands Together Against War
In the face of Iraqi resistance to the invasion, the U.S. military strategy has abruptly shifted in the last few days. Instead of posing as liberators, the U.S. high command has called for open warfare against the Iraqi civilian population. In the last 48 hours, hundreds of civilians have been shot down on the roadways, in their homes, on their farms. The aerial bombings are becoming more indiscriminate as missiles land in markets and residential neighborhoods.
The Iraq war has suddenly taken on the worst features of the U.S. war in Vietnam. Facing a defiant and resisting population, U.S. troops, under the direction of their officers, treat all members of the population as suspect and decide to shoot first and ask questions later. The U.S. soldiers have been lied to about their mission. They have been sent to kill and be killed in a war for empire and conquest, not liberation. U.S. casualties are mounting in this war that need not have happened.
On March 31, there was a massacre of civilians, mainly women and their children, whose crime was that they were driving on a roadway in their own country. As their van approached a checkpoint, U.S. soldiers destroyed their vehicle with a barrage of 25mm cannon fire from one or more of their M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles. The Washington Post quoted Capt. Ronny Johnson of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division in his series of orders to the troops present:
- "Fire a warning shot"
- "Stop [messing] around!"
- "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!"
- "Cease fire!"
- "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!"
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Brian Flemming
Oh, and I just got ANOTHER email from ANOTHER commie-type organization, ZNet (aka Z Magazine online).
The email they sent me proves once and for all how much these lefties hate the troops.
2 - Reverend Mykeru
You know, I find it strange how all those neo-conservative whore-bag fascist bastard dittoheads keeps saying "communist" like it's a BAD thing.
Especially since they learned everything they know about propaganda from "Stalinism for Dummies".
And protest too much.
3 - Eric Olsen
Rev, if you seriously don't think communism is a bad thing in 2003, your judgment cannot be trusted.
4 - Brian Flemming
Rev,
You make an interesting point. The right-wing uses Commie as a convenient label (similar to "evil," or in Clint Black's case, "devil") to avoid thinking about what those who disagree with them have to say, and to encourage others to similarly refuse reasonable debate. "Commie" is a convenient label because Communism has almost inevitably resulted in totalitarian states obsessed with mass killing and empire.
At the same time...John Ashcroft rushes the U.S. closer to a totalitarian state. The neoconservative hawks' plan seems fated to cause mass killing in the Middle East. And the name we used to have for invading a region and taking it over via military occupation is...empire.
They doth protest too much, dothen't they?
5 - Rob
Brian, as I have posted on your site, I believe that you genuinely are concerned for our troops, no argument there. Your other post mentioned protesting cutting of veteran's benefits as part of your overall protest, that is admirable and necessary, especially as treatment of US veterans is at times terrible. You mention that protest was overlooked by the press, herein lies part of the problem as it relates to your post above. By associating your protest with those in A.N.S.W.E.R who you have found as you wrote "common cause" in protesting the war, your noble goals and legitimate grievances are tainted by association with "Commies", who wish to diminish the freedoms (we are still not a police state, martial law has not been instituted, jack-booted thugs have not broken into your house to crush dissent) that the US safeguards. (Outside of how nice it looks as a theory on paper, in practice, the theory is found wanting; so far communism has resulted in totalitarianism, not a workers' paradise) So of course, many of those that don't agree with you, or the protests in general are going to be even less inclined to listen to your arguments. Aligning yourself alongside ANSWER and its ilk is to many of US as if you had aligned yourself with the KKK. You are known by the company you keep.
Keep on posting, debate and discussion should be encouraged.
6 - Brian Flemming
Rob,
"we are still not a police state, martial law has not been instituted, jack-booted thugs have not broken into your house to crush dissent"
You say that so optimistically! We're definitely headed toward a police state. By inflaming the angriest part of the world with this unjustified invasion, we can expect to be in more danger, and thus the federal government will have even more of an excuse to take away our freedoms.
Torture, secret trials and executions, secret detention without legal counsel or charges, unlimited wiretapping...sound familiar? And we've just gotten started. It's been less than two years since the mania started. Patriot 2 is coming. More violence against us is coming.
What to you think is coming next?
And, hey, what books have you been reading lately, Rob? I don't know. But guess who might?
You do make a good point about ANSWER being the equivalent of the KKK in many people's minds. But I can't do anything about this prejudice. Let's say ANSWER didn't have any Communists among its coalition leadership. I mean, not even 2 out of 80, which is probably the ratio.
Don't you think National Review would have found something to put in that article for you to grab onto? I mean, there's a member of the coalition that lobbies to discover the truth about U.S. war crimes in Korea. Wouldn't be hard to spin that into something. Anarchists are on the fringes. Homosexuals are among us, too.
Look at the connections you've drawn, based on zero evidence. I mean zero evidence.
"...your noble goals and legitimate grievances are tainted by association with 'Commies', who wish to diminish the freedoms (we are still not a police state, martial law has not been instituted, jack-booted thugs have not broken into your house to crush dissent) that the US safeguards."
Where did you come up with this? Was this your process?
1. Communism in the past has resulted in totalitarian states.
2. National Review says Communists are among the leadership of ANSWER.
3. Therefore ANSWER wishes "to diminish the freedoms...that the U.S. safeguards."
If this is the logical process, Rob, you'd do it with anything. Take away all the Commies who show up at the rallies (I mean it--take away all ten of them). The right wing would still find something. They'd still find a way to ignore the peace movement and its arguments.
They handed you Commies just because it was the easiest slur available.
7 - cjone
Whoever put up this blog is hilarious. Especcially the section comments around the picture.
8 - Rob
Brian, if you care to look, the backers behind ANSWER are easy to find.
Go look at some of the sites they link to, do a little research, they love Stalinism. You suspect the current administration is ready to throw you in the Gulag, these guys think the Gulag was a fine idea. Been to any counries that are or were until recently stifled under totalitarianism as a result of communist rule? I have. The US looks a hell of a lot better than they do. I won't side with anyone who would want to revive that system, even if they promised me peace, a pay raise, and a nice house on the beach.
9 - Brian Flemming
Rob,
You wrote:
"Brian, if you care to look, the backers behind ANSWER are easy to find.
"Go look at some of the sites they link to, do a little research, they love Stalinism."
Um, okay. I went to the website. I went to the links page. I couldn't find anything about Stalinism. Or the Gulag.
Nothing.
If it's so "easy to find," why didn't you link to something? Provide actual evidence of the ANSWER leadership praising Stalin to back up your accusation, please.
Seriously, Rob, if you can't find out anything about Communism no matter how hard you look at ANSWER, how much Communist influence could there be on the peace movement? In order to have an influence, wouldn't the Commies actually have to, um, mention it? How are they gonna turn us into Commies if they don't even talk about it?
Even if you can find a link to a link to a link to a link to a link, which you haven't yet done, let me illustrate how little such a hustle means:
I went to the White House website. I found there conclusive evidence that Charles W. Pickering was nominated by President Bush as a Circuit Court judge.
THEN I found out that Charles W. Pickering, as a U.S. District Judge, in 1994 made an ethically improper phone call to a prosecutor in order to reduce the sentence of a man convicted of cross burning.
Therefore, President Bush is a racist.
Do I believe that? No. But in two minutes I provided a direct connection from the White House to something scandalous. Which is more than you've been able to do with ANSWER.
If ANSWER were talking about people's revolution at the rallies or urging people to sign up with the Communist Party, I could understand the accusation. But there is no substantial influence by the Communist Party on the peace movement. Nothing. It just isn't there. If you took a poll at a rally, you'd find no significant support for Communism.
It's a smear, Rob. Pure and simple. And it does what a smear does--it taints all 20,000 people marching and gives people an excuse to ignore the troubling things they have to say.
"I won't side with anyone who would want to revive that system, even if they promised me peace, a pay raise, and a nice house on the beach."
Me either. I don't "side" with anyone who wants to revive totalitarian systems of the 20th Century, Communist or otherwise. I wouldn't side with them even if I could find them, which I can't, and neither can you.
10 - unknown
anyone who thinks we are wasting multi million dollar missles to kill civilians is a retartd, everyone that reads this has to hear an anti war song by system of down which is pure sh**
11 - Ryan
Yo. COMMIES, NAZIS, and KKK suck ass. Why don't you all go back to where you came from. Which happens to be hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
12 - Al Barger
While we're revisiting this post, note the flat out malicious LIE from ANSWER on which the whole thing is built:
Instead of posing as liberators, the U.S. high command has called for open warfare against the Iraqi civilian population. In the last 48 hours, hundreds of civilians have been shot down on the roadways, in their homes, on their farms.
The reason that we have insurgents still killing some of our people into 2004 is exactly because we have NOT stepped down like we could. We could put this stuff down 99% in one week, if we weren't trying very hard to avoid killing innocents.
Then again, actual truth in the real world means very little to many of these commie pinkos.
Brian whines like a little bitch about name calling. But note his own words: The right-wing uses Commie as a convenient label (similar to "evil," or in Clint Black's case, "devil") to avoid thinking about what those who disagree with them have to say, and to encourage others to similarly refuse reasonable debate. "Commie" is a convenient label because Communism has almost inevitably resulted in totalitarian states obsessed with mass killing and empire.
There's not much in the way of "reasonable debate" to be had with anyone who would openly identify themselves as "communist" or "socialist" at this point in history. It is Brian Flemming et al who are not interested in any form of reason. How many TENS OF MILLIONS of dead bodies do you have to pile up in front of them to show these people before they would consider it a valid argument against every variant of Marxism?
Then he expects that we MUST, for the 10 millionth time, consider their viewpoint, just for the sake of honest discourse. No, at some point the book is goddam CLOSED.
And really, it is somewhere beyond hypocritical for BRIAN FLEMMING of all people to complain about labeling people and then refusing to consider alternative viewpoints. When has he EVER given any bit of a point or credit even just for MEANING well to anyone even half a step to the right of Fidel Castro?
13 - Eric Olsen
The "dictatorship of the proletariat" is just that.
14 - Natalie Davis
Beats having that lying punk Bush as dictator.
Pinko and Proud!
15 - Al Barger
Really, Natalie? Tens of millions of people murdered by Stalin, how many more MILLIONS in Cambodia, Vietnam, China, and every other country that has gone this route?
Better that than Evil Dictator George Bush, though.
Just how wicked and hateful are you in the depths of your soul? And you dare to call yourself a Christian. SHAME on you.
Yes, yes, I know that you are a victim. As usual you'll no doubt be only too eager to publicly spew forth yet more details of your various victimizations at the drop of a hat, for they give you license to hate.
Granted, George Bush, Republicans and "conservatives" generally have done nothing but abuse you your whole life. Indeed, THEY (WE, as I suppose I am considered to be one of THEM) are no doubt responsible for what a shit pit of misery your life is. I, for one, am positively weary from the work I put in to oppress you.
One thing for sure: YOU are not responsible for causing your own misery. Oh, no. The constant nursing of anger, looking for any possible excuse to hate people- no, that ain't the cause. Blaming your troubles on the man who's trying his level best to protect you from being murdered, why that's not just blind hatred- it righteous indignation against an Evil Dictator.
Let us end with a brief quote from our mutual hero:
One day you’re going to have to face
A deep dark truthful mirror
16 - mike
"The constant nursing of anger, looking for any possible excuse to hate people- no, that ain't the cause."
Pot calls kettle black, Vol. XIVXIVIX
17 - Mark Saleski
it's a known fact that conservative bile has a higher purity content than liberal bile...and thus is intrinsically more valuable.
18 - Mac Diva
C, girl, you haven't reading been Brian's blog? It is one of my weekly drop-ins. I also checked out the recent production of "Bat Boy," a musical he helped write, in Portland. So many in the blogosphere are dittos, but Brian is an original. I am not suggesting you will agree with everything he says, but his entries are usually more than worth a read. He and the distracted Gen. J.C. Christian are probably the best satirists around.
(Commercial over. Return to regular programming, which would be . . . Al Barger.)
19 - JR
Did Marx specifically call for secret police, "re-education camps" or military conquest of neighboring countries? Did Jesus specifically call for the Inquisition, burning people at the stake or genecidal war against the Incas?
Or do the actions of people who claimed to act in their names discredit them regardless of intent?
20 - Brian Flemming
Thanks, MD!
21 - Al Barger
Mr. Saleski- Please do not misunderstand: comment 15 was specifically criticism of Ms. Davis, not a generalized comment on everyone of liberal persuasion. You could very well choose to nurse similar misery for yourself based on any number of different belief systems, political or religious or ethnic.
Indeed, there are many people who support liberal political programs out of genuine loving concern for others. I see it all the time.
I like to assume the better motives for most people and situations, but blunt hateful irrational comments such #14 call out for a calling out.
I don't care if somebody calls the president a bad name now and again. I do it myself. Hell, call ME some names. I won't take it personal. But if someone is so full of just ridiculous, hysterical hate as Natalie often seems to be, you can't really even TRY to engage them in a constructive debate.
Indeed Mike [comment 16], it is possible that I at times cross from objectivity into some emotional indulgence at the expense of someone else from time to time, for all have sinned and fell short of the glory of God. Separating reasonable and appropriate criticism from pure emotionalism is a complicated and ongoing effort. I'm probably not 100% successful. I'd rate myself maybe 99%. Somewhat less than perfect.
I'll just say that I am conscious to try not to be that way. If you follow my writing, you'll notice how frequently I go out of my way to praise people with very obviously different belief systems than me. I've had kind words, for example, for Barney Frank and even a time or two for Al Sharpton. Hell, I dig Mac Diva. XOX.
And then there's Brian Flemming, who won't speak my cursed name. It makes me feel powerful and fearful like Cthulhu.
Brian, it takes some special effort and discipline for you to avoid acknowledging my existence as totally as you do. I appreciate the tribute of attention you offer me by this effort. Thanks.
22 - mike
"it is possible that I at times cross from objectivity into some emotional indulgence at the expense of someone else from time to time."
Greatest understatement in world history.
23 - Eric Olsen
I hate to reiterate, but Marx indeed prescribed a "dictatorship of the proletariat" making inevitable that someone was going to do something to someone against their will, leading inevitably to the variety of misery that has manifested itself in the pursuit of a worker's paradise.
24 - Al Barger
Really Mike, I mean, boo hoo. I do NOT play that rough. Also, I try to be FAIRMINDED in my criticisms. I try to give the other guy credit where I can. If you can't stand a little jostling, get off the frickin' playground. Or at least quit saying dumb stuff to provoke my wrath.
Note also how your response will tend to discourage honesty or attempting to make nice as I am doing. You apparently intend to take the olive branch I offer and stick it up in me. For trying to offer that I might be less than perfect, I get OH GOD YOU ARE INDEED AN EVIL MONSTER.
In short, quit being such a gaywad. Thank you.
25 - Mac Diva
JR's comment is getting lost in the shuffle, but I think it is significant. I believe there is something deep in human nature that leads to horrible excessses, not forms of government. People will set up a government they deem heaven on Earth, and still resort to abuses. All we can hope to do is curtail the worst of the behavior, I guess. That will often mean the imperfect criticizing others' imperfections, but it is the best we can do, apparently. So, the fact ANSWER and the League of the South (yes, it is true) oppose the war does not mean people with more middling views shouldn't, too. Strange bedfellows happen.
Barger, be man enough to admit Brian is a talented communicator and satirist, at least. Go on and say it: Brian Flemming is an original.