Where's Osama and why doesn't the Administration seem to care?
greetings gentle Readers....…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
CIA Closes bin Laden Department - Comments Page 2
Where's Osama and why doesn't the Administration seem to care?
greetings gentle Readers....…
Article comments
26 - troll
(I was going to respond to Clavos' MM funny with "about how the bin Laden family refused to pony up with a large enough bribe for the Bush family to keep their wayward son a fugitive"
but gonzo is in serious mode)
IMO - disappear bin Laden in the deepest hole and his cult will continue
troll
27 - Bliffle
"Damn, Bliff. I didn't know there WAS a party line. And which party was that, since most Republicans who I've heard on this topic have condemned the move."
The Presidential Power Party, headed by Cheney, which has temporarily taken over the republican party, and which avers All Power To The President as long as we control him.
OBL has spoken of planning the London 7/7 attack, so he is not quiescent, propaganda-wise anyhow.
If this is a war of ideas or cultures or whatever abstraction, even if the capture of OBL is symbolic rather than tactical, it still serves strategic purposes.
28 - gonzo marx
troll...the cult of his immediate followers will continue...but kids will stop buying/wearing his face on a t-shirt
as has been proven with charismatic leaders in the course of human history...remove the Myth, and all else dies out soon after...the impetus of the unthinking emotionalization of motivation removed...
but if the Myth is allowed to flourish unchecked, then you are struggling against an Idea which cannot be defeated
Excelsior?
29 - Adam Ash
I'd vote for any Presidential candidate who says his/her platform is to go after Bin Laden and catch the bastard.
That might be a good theme for an anti-GOP candidate: "the Rpublicans don't want to get Bin Laden, but I do."
30 - troll
*the impetus of the unthinking emotionalization of motivation removed...*
to get this effect I think your emphasis on Mullah Omar is correct as religious interpretation and authority is driving the imagination for many
both bin Laden and the mystic only point to the deeper problem back in Saudi Arabia
troll
31 - troll
Adam - I was going to comment on your thread that you had the right idea but wrong catchy slogan but this post of your got here first - 'soft on bin Laden' beats 'Enron fraud' for sure
troll
32 - gonzo marx
troll, i agree...
to me , their are Janus like Aspects to the dilemma...
bin Laden as one Face, the "odysseus" and Omar (whom i think of as the MUCH greater overall Threat) as the holder of the "magic" Item delegating authority from "deity" and thus able to speak "righteuosly"
imo, a "perfect storm" as far as ideological Conflict goes... and should be a Primary concern, rather than the fiasco of Iraq
just my one sixth billionths of the world's Opinion...
Excelsior?
33 - SonnyD
gonzo: #32 Just what do you mean by "Primary concern"? Isn't that exactly what declaring war against terrorism is? But then you keep saying that you can't declare war against a noun. I can't see diplomacy having any effect. How do you propose this threat should be handled? If you are going to criticize, shouldn't you offer some suggestions for a solution?
As to the fiasco of Iraq, agreed. But only in so far as the timing was the worst possible. The way it was handled after the initial invasion was also poor, but there were reasons that haven't been recognized for that.
34 - Dave Nalle
troll...the cult of his immediate followers will continue...but kids will stop buying/wearing his face on a t-shirt
Just like they've stopped wearing Che Guevara on their t-shirts now that he's been dead for 40+ years, gonzo?
Dave
35 - gonzo marx
which proves my point between killing one makes it a Myth, while a trial and Incarceration proves one to be nothing more than a man, and a criminal at that
NOW, do you perceive the Difference?
Excelsior?
36 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Gonzo,
Every time your brave leader was in financial trouble, a fellow named "bin Laden" forked over some money to help him out. And GW Bush evidently was a far worse businessman that Abe Lincoln was. I should only be so lucky to have a rich Arab bail me out the way the Shrub has had.
What kind of class is it to go after the family of your benefactors? Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! I suspect that this unit was kept alive (with profuse apologies to the bin Laden family) primarily to keep people off of Bush's back and quietly closed down as soon as it was possible...
37 - troll
Ruvy - I've read about Salem's 50 grand connection to arbusto and the general point that the bin Laden family was connected through the carlyle group...what specifics do you have on these financial transfers that you refer to - ?
troll
38 - gonzo marx
SonnyD in #33...
i reject the Idea of confusing the "war on terror" with the fight against al Qaeda, and thus the two individuals i speak of..bin Laden and Mullah Omar.
why do i say this?, because according to the objective evidence from the actions fo the DoD, and Administration in the last few years...we palinly see that their focus of money, Intel and military resources has been aimed at Iraq, secondanry appears to have been just trying to keep Kabul out of the headlines...
imo, they have failed miserably so far at either of those goals
you want me to suggest solutions? ok...one Section of Navy Intel and Team Six, with 10,000 marines if needed....finance them as they require, and you would have NO problems with the Aghan warlords in the hinterlands, and if the pair are around the Pakistani/Afghan border...they woudl get found
you must "let slip the dogs of War" that are trained and capable fo solving the Problem, with the tools and resources they need to do so..and hand them a clear and unambiguous Objective...
then, get out of the way
it is good to read that you share the exact same misgivings for what appears to be some of the same reasons, about Iraq...
Ruvy...
on the day of 9/11 itself, as all was happening, i spoke aloud only once, what is a working Hypothesis based on what i knew and saw at the time...only my wife heard it...and i have not repeated the Nightmare Scenario since then...because i don't want to think of it as anywhere near Truth, and i do not have enough Facts nor Evidence...and so, i continue to operate under the assumptions which are generally agreed upon at this point...
you raise good points as to the family connections, but we have few documented facts that we can be certain of...
1) a few days after the Tragedy, al of the bin Laden Family in the U.S. were flown out, before the general "all clear" of commercial flights began again
2) bin Laden was trained by our CIA as part of the imported Saudi troops to form the mujahadeen resistance with the local Afghanis against the Soviets
3) 17-18 of the hijackers were Saudi (depending on the Source)
if you have confirmable evidence or proof of the financial links you claim, please do post them...i have seen/read rumours of many things, but not much in the way of verifiable evidence....and so, i set things of that nature aside until more data is verfied...
oh yes, and in no stratch of the Imagination would i ever accept the individual in Question as my "brave Leader"...i Accept that he holds the Office, no more...no less
to touch once again on the Che Guevera comparison... i feel i must re-iterate that part of what should be the Goal in this Conflict is ensuring that the Myth of the opposition is openly and quite publicly dismantled... so that in 1 or 2 generations, there is no such Symbol for the fanatics to rally around
example: no one can honestly make the assessment that "communism" will outlive either Castro of Kim Jong Il by much...they have shown by their lives that they are NOT mythic figures to their own People, but rather mere Men...whose Influence will die out shortly after they do...
example: would the Myths of Camelot or Lincoln have endured had those Individuals not been assasinated before it was shown that they were mere Men, rather than martyred before the "honeymoon" had Ended?
just some Thoughts....
and my Thanks to all involved in the Discussion
Excelsior?
39 - Jet in Columbus
Damn Gonzo! I thought we got him in Korea, better order those superballs for Pakistan, we can say were were dropping them for the kids to play with.
In fact we could write on each one "Here kid, play with my balls!"
40 - David
Blessed are the peacemakers:
for they shall be called the
Children of God
(Mat 5:9)
Jesus's way is not by sword but by cross
41 - jaz
damn..it's hards ta believe i actually wrote this that long ago...
interesting indeed that it has adequately stood the test of time as well as the fact of how solidly my interpretations and extrapolations have been borne out
interesting indeed that someone had picked this Thread out to spam with a nonsensical scriptural quote...to that person, might i remind you that the one you mention died as a Lamb and was to return as a Lion...with Sword in hand?
nuff said