What is it that China doesn't want to tell us?
Chinese ambassador to the United Nations Office at Geneva Sha Zukang told a reporter yesterday that "It's better for the U.S. to shut up [about Chinese military spending]."…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Jethro
Zet, what's your point? Your 'rambling' is incoherant. Take your time to answer, let the effects of the pill you took this morning wear off before you attempt to answer. Try to concentrate on one topic. One subject. Concentrate. Try to make a point. C'mon I think you can do it! Try!
77 - Zet
Jethro: Sorry. We speak an entirely different language. We just wont understand each other.
I understand your words but that is where it ends. I'm sure its the same for you.
78 - arthur
Hmmm... Where is the diplomacy here? I think we are here to examine the topic. I think it would be classy if we did so with an understanding that this is an international web site. Giving grace and space understanding that language is a difficult beast. In many parts of the world, being "In your face" and demanding. is only considered an inability to communicate. I think we need to start with acceptance here, from there we can develop understanding. We learn by sharing, not my forcing.
79 - Dave Nalle
Unfortunately for us, the rest of the world READS. They are well informed.
So, you don't actually know anyone from outside the US and haven't travelled at all either. Because trust me, there's as much or more ignorance among the general populace of every nation in the world. It's not a problem unique to the US.
Dave
80 - goku
I think what the reporter said is absolutely appropriate. The US has become a joke, hypocrates in every sense of the word. Compare the military budgets of the US and China...there lies the answer. So I would say the same thing, "Shut the F*** UP America!!"
81 - arthur
Ok, well, I can see we are not exactly going to work these things out peacably... so...I think I will go to bed and let your folks enjoy your pain.
"All we are saying...is give peace a chance."
82 - Chinese
With no doubt, Jethro has been brainwashed.
Your China is 30 years ago, it was true my parent generation has no food to eat, Chairman Mao has done a lot horrible things to make people suffer(but also did a lot good things beneficial to ordinary people). But now we are 21st century, WAKE UP!
Just like comparing the China with the Amaerica 1,000 years ago, whne China was richest country, and there were a few monkeys jumping around in Amaerica. Does that make any sense?
Just like people in US, and Europe, Chinese are working hard(or harder) to have a better life, to pay children's education, to pay mortgage/bills ... American government is rich, but the ordinary people are not. I don't think you are richer than me - I am also earning >100K US Dollars salary per year, and I think you are just a unedicated ignorant American.
83 - Jethro
You know Chinee when I get cranky and my spelling goes to shit and I can’t string a coherent thought together. I stop what I’m doing; I call my house-servant and have her prepare some soothing Ginseng or Green Tea. Then cup in hand I’ll sit on a bench on my veranda or wander over to my Japanese contemplation garden, sit, sip and reflect on all the good things that God has bestowed upon me. Feeling better from this restorative, I then may go to my study, call my broker to have her figure out whether to exercise my stock options, or see the direction of oil futures for the next month. Then I go out for a quick ride in my Maybach. Before you can say Chop Suey I’m feeling 100% again.
84 - nowwesee
Before Ben Laden and the Iraqi rebellion, we had the world believing that we were invincible...we have lost the aura of invincibility, which is necessary to truly be a world leader...but more importantly we have lost the worlds respect.
China is merely demonstrating that regretable fact. Leaders who lead with physical might "only" soon lose power. It is clear that we have done just that.
85 - Jethro
Gwarsh!
Censorship rears its ugly head! Welcome back Bryan.
Your thread has taken on a life of it’s own. Some of us stayed around just to keep this ‘orphan’ out of trouble.
I see that my post did not go 'unnoticed' and was not appreciated. The curious can view my URL to see for themselves if it was 'over the top'. I thought it was rather tame.
Sorry to see such sensitivity among 'adults'...but what can you expect in this crazy-mixed-up PC world we live in!!
86 - Zet
Dave:
I've done extensive travel. The population that has the same access to information (even less actually)as we do is MUCH MUCH more informed than we are about the rest of the world. You may be refering to their ideas about us (Hollywood, etc.) I am speaking about an understanding of global affairs.
You certainly can't mean that your average suburban person male or female has a sense of what the world is like outside of a club med resort.
In most countries the educated class is actually educated. They actually know something.
87 - Bryan
Censorship rears its ugly head! Welcome back Bryan.
Jethro, in all honesty, I've entirely lost interest in this thread and what it's become. But having said that, I have nothing to do with any sort of "censorship" on this site, nor do I have any control over the comment section.
88 - Chinese
I have never been to US, I am not anti-America. I have met some very nice, smart Americans. I quite like them, and gave them a lot of respect.
But some American do live in illusionary world, don't respect other countries' people, think US as the cop of this planet, think about WHAT IF I am rich ... Welcome back to reality!
Respect everyone, respect the differences, make the world a better place is everyone's responsibility.
89 - Zet
Dave Nalle:
Are you saying that the activities of the U.S. which include supporting candidates (future dictators) or funding over throws of "disobedient" leaders in other countries, is a matter that is openly shared??
Also, the matter is not that China was irritated because we "outed" them. It's that we had the gaul to express displeasure about how they plan and spend for their own defense.
What country do you think has a right to tell us how to defend ourselves and offer objections and suggestions to our millitary planning and spending?
90 - Mohjho
To be unconditionally free from foreign manipulation is what holds the vast population of China together. It is what enabled Mao to unite the people of China under his banner of Communism.
Please read an accurate history of the Opium wars. The Western powers and Japan carved up China like some third rate cheap fiefdom that it had become while forcing vast amounts of opium on an defenseless population .The Chinese will never forget or forgive this humiliation.
If their ambassador use the term ‘shut up’, you can damn well believe that is exactly what they meant to convey, especially to the ‘bring em on’ leader of the free world.
91 - james
Yes, it is better for US to SHUT UP, and FUCK OFF.
92 - Jonathan Asian
Dear Americans, don't be jealous of China. According to Lynch, the average Chinese's IQ score is 105 while that of Caucasians is just about 100.
Even though the U.S. military strength is far greater than that of any other country in the world, its potential for future economic growth is waning.
Like the United Kingdom, the U.S. has been finding its political influence declining. Look at the increasing number of unemployed people in the U.S. and you will know it. Soon it will also lose its cultural and economic influence.
Face facts and work hard. Stop being jealous of emerging powers or superpowers. Learn to be humble and gain the world's respect.
Respect Asians. They will be at the top of the world again.
93 - pleasexcusetheinteruption12
uhh john? unemployment in America is actually fairly low right now
94 - James
You know why unemployment in America is actually fairly low right now?
So many soliders have been sent to Iraq, and some have died, amnd more will die.
95 - Clavos
Not so, James.
The unemployment figures are based on total nonfarm employment of more than 144 million (as of July 2006), while the total number of US troops in Iraq is about 160,000, with about 2600 casualties.
96 - Dave Nalle
And not only is unemployment low, it's at historically low levels and has been declining. It probably can't actually go significantly lower unless we figure out a way to make the habitually unemployed want to get jobs.
Dave
97 - David #42 #43
Jethro, uninformed? All my references are from 'real' world event covered by CNN... Well, I'm actually glad you say that I'm uninformed pulling stories out of CNN. Much of your topics are pretty much off-topic anyway, you are just another typical american who believes everything the TV tells you, perhaps also a war supporter too. I checked your blog, skimmed through it: "Lebanese civilian casualties, Lebanese terrorist-Hizbollah casualties. What's the difference??" Jethro, are you ONLY good at using a rich vocabulary? Your blog just confirms it, a war loving imperialist. PS. Thanks for mentioning me by the way ;)
98 - Jonathan Asian
'Pleaseexcuse' and Dave Nalle, do you really believe the published figures on unemployment in America?
Find out how many factory workers have lost jobs because of competitions from foreign products. Find out how many qualified academicians have failed to get jobs that suit their qualifications. Find out how many people with Masters and PhDs have failed to get teaching positions in universities and schools even though they are qualified and excellent.
99 - Dave Nalle
Jonathan, I've seen the unemployment, employment by skill area and every other figure you can name, not just from the BLS, but also from private research groups. Plus I can read the want ads. And I AM one of those 'qualified academicians'. I could get a job teaching in a second if I wanted to go back to it.
Factory workers who lose jobs to overseas competition need to retrain or move to where the work is, and most of them do. They ultimately end up with better jobs in most cases.
The job market in the US has always been somewhat fluid, but for some reason people have lost the will to adapt to changes the way they did in the 1950s and 1960s when people changed jobs once every 3 years on average to advance themselves. Now people expect to get out of college and do the same job forever and get paid more and more for it every year while just filling space. It doesn't and shouldn't work that way. And really it never has.
Dave
100 - Chinese
I am happy to see American unemloyment rate dropped, otherwise some American like President Bush, or some brainwashed Americans like "Jethro" will say this is China's fault. I am happy to see an even stronger US economy, which will be beneficial to everyone including myself, and China can escape from criticism.
Don't just blame other countries, think about what your own country has done and is doing first!
101 - crocodile_cn
Dear Brayn:
I feel that your translation of "one inch land is more valuable than lives of our soliders" is wrong. The sentence "Ning Shi San Jun, Bu Diu Cun Tu" has strong historical context tha its meaning word by word. Also, I feel that you over concern some issues in sino-American relationship. I do not want to state here in details because I personally do not like to speak too much in public.
102 - Bryan
Croc, I wasn't responsible for translating that quote, nor do I even speak Chinese. Blame the news source.
But if you do have comments/criticisms, please do share them. I appreciate any feedback, especially if you have a contextual background. What is the historical context of the sentence in question, for instance?
103 - michael Dong
The Financial Times newspaper reported on July 15, 2005 that Zhu Chenghu, a major general in the People's Liberation army warned that China was ready to use nuclear weapons if the US intervened to stop aggression against Taiwan. "If the Americans are determined to interfere ... we will be determined to respond," he said. "We Chinese will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds... of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese," he added.
This is the second time in a decade, a Chinese General threatened to attack our cities with nuclear weapon.
One may dismiss that these are just isolated comments. But hasn't there been enough of these isolated comments over the years? It actually reveals an attitude that are pervasive amongst the brass and ranks of the Chinese Communinst regime. This is a malignant tumore that the world refuses to acknowledge because they are too obsessed and won-over by trade with China.
104 - jethro
Bryan re #87. You did not strike me as the type to pull a harmless little back-handed compliment. I did not mean to imply that you were the source; I was just rhetorically questioning the source of this censorship. Just interested and really couldn't shiv a git one way or the udder.
You don’t have control of the comment? Interesting!? So some dufuss jackass selectively decided to be the arbiter of the limits of the dialectic dialogue...ho hum, whatever.
As regards you comment about losing interest in this thread, not hard to see why. Where one hopes for stimulating, one finds boring. One looks for solid reasoning and a regard for the language, one is met with repetitive wisdom regurgitated from the mainstream media with a butchering of the language so vile that the posters thread, leaves one to think that they are on both sides of their own argument.
There are some interesting commentators here, including you.
No, Arthur, you are not one of them. The last thing of interest to happen to a Minnesotan was the suicide of Garrison Keillor and I’m not counting the numerous ‘Prince’ name changes. The last interesting thing to happen in Minnesota was the movie location for ‘Fargo’(1996) and not a prequel in sight, alas. Sorry, that was North Dakota, wasn’t it! Ya,hey der! Fashizzle!
My continued interest here, Bryan? Just that of a house cat toying with a mouse it has caught before it tires of its amusement. Meow
105 - Clavos
The last interesting thing to happen in Minnesota was the movie location for 'Fargo'(1996) and not a prequel in sight, alas.
Well, no, that would be difficult. Impossible, actually.
Perhaps we will see a sequel one of these days, however.
106 - IgnatiusReilly
"the suicide of Garrison Keillor "
someone should tell him he's dead.
last interesting thing to happen to is Gov. Ventura
107 - Jason Lim (Malaysia)
As a linguist, let me tell you that 'ning shi san jun, bu diu cun tu' means 'Even if we have to sacrifice (or lose) our army, we should/will not easily give up (or discard) any part of our land that we love and cherish so much.' It does not mean that our soldiers are of little/less value. It means that the dignity of our country is priceless, and our people (particularly the army/navy/air force) are determined enough to protect every part of our beloved Motherland. Take a course on Discourse Analysis and you might know how to interpret it using relevant contextual information.
108 - Jethro
Dear Asians, you are destined to make the same mistake that Admiral Yamamoto commented, "I think we have woken a Sleeping Giant...”
When Wal-Mart decides to source its products from a less strident and arrogant country, RedChina’s future empty factories can go back to making those funny little Mao military uniforms for Castro and Chavez.
Average Chinese I.Q. score 105? Johnathan forgot to put in the multiplier. Best example is the Chinese Yuan in relation to the U.S.Dollar. 1 Chinese yaun = 0.125495708 U.S. dollars. So mathematically 105 Chinee I.Q.’s divided by the official exchange rate of 0.125495708 is equal to an American I.Q. of approximately 837. So mathematically Americans are approximately 8 times smarter than Chinee.
J.A. Americans are humble and we do have the free world’s respect. Operative word Johnathan is “FREE”. Moreover Americans were admonished by their Great President Theodore Roosevelt, to “speak softly and carry a big… Shillelagh”.
109 - Jethro
Yes, prequel.
Just sending Keillor a subliminal message. Hope springs eternal.
Bring out the wet-noodle, how could I have forgotten about Jesse?!
110 - Chinese
Jethro, US has free world's respect? Have you ever been to Europe countries - France, Germany, Italy, Ireland? Even some British dislike US? Every Greece I meet hates US. You are so lovely ...
111 - Jean
Most of you have hit the nail on the head when it comes to the real China. Do countries start increasing their military budget just to keep up with the Jones'? With respect to the comment that that was China 30 years ago, maybe you could explain the widespread unrest amongst human rights advocates, pro-democracy groups, and labor unions. Those of you that think the drilling rights of the coast of Florida are solely for a booming economy should read the nine commmentaries.
112 - Jethro
As a matter of fact Chinee my company does business with every European country. Personally I travel to Europe a dozen or more times a year. My extended family has roots in France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Monte Carlo, Latvia, Lithuania and a few Balkan countries. Most of our trading partners are decidedly pro-American. In private conversations most despise their countries official coolness towards the U.S. They understand the liberal leanings of their mostly socialistic governments and they see their countrymen turning away from their failed policies.
They say their problem is similar to ours. A very vocal Leftist minority supported by Leftist Media with a student population indoctrinated by Leftists professors. Their average workingman besides being nationalistic still admires the U.S. and understands what the Left is doing but like here in America, he feels powerless to do anything about it. Many say that pro-Western change is coming because most of their citizens are tired of failed socialist programs accompanied by high taxes and high unemployment. So naturally they admire and envy America’s success and affluence.
Yes Chinee, the economic sun rises in the west!
113 - Jonathan Asian
Dear Jethro, you have made a silly mistake by using an exchange rate to discuss differences in IQ scores. (Different countries have different units of currency.) Study reports written by IQ researchers first before you confuse yourself and others when it comes to comparisons of intelligence quotients of Caucasians and East Asians.
114 - duane
Oh brother. Sense of humor?
115 - Mr. Sha
Jethro, for anyone in this world still calling China Red China, it shows that this person is either bigoted or ignorant of what's going on in that country and in the world as well. It shows that you are still living with a cold war mentality. Wake up! Calling names won't do a thing, it only makes people think that the caller is insecure. As China rises, a lot people feel unhappy, and you must me one of them. Let's not focus on how emotional Ambassador Sha was, but consider isn't what he said about the US military spending the truth, and it is only the truth that counts. China is still under a totalitarian government, but it will change. Just be patient and give it more time. Don't forget, only some 40 years ago, white people in North America was covered by law to go out and shoot Indians for fun! By the way, among the alliances of the US, quite a few courtiers are ruled by totalitarian governments. US didn't say a thing about them but provide them with military support, actually, not that long ago, Sadam Hussein’s Iraq was a loved alliance of US. The double standard, arrogance and hypocrisy of the US government are what made Mr. Kang, and many peoples in the world, so mad. By the way your mentioning of Chinese government organizing acts taking organs out of prisoners showed again how venerable you are to the brainwash of US media which thinks nothing but want to create a sensation out of anything they could possible get and blow that totally out of proportion and human conscience in order for their report to sell or for the reporter to get promoted.
116 - Chinese
Jethro, you are really lovely :-)
Everyone in the earth should give this kid a sweet kiss :-)
Are you intelligent enough to calculate how many kisses you will get?
117 - Clavos
Gee, Mr. Sha,
In your #115 you accuse Jethro of being brainwashhed by US media, and in the same comment you say:
Don't forget, only some 40 years ago, white people in North America was covered by law to go out and shoot Indians for fun!
What an asinine allegation! How can you seriously believe that?
Who's brainwashed?
118 - DAMN RIGHT!
Its about fucken time someone told the bully to STFU!! YEAH! China got balls.
119 - OK....
Jethro: you seem to be a ill educated redneck who hates everyone in the world except other rednecks, [Edited]
120 - BADMAN
[Edited] On a more serious note, if anyone look at this from the Chinese point of view u would understand why they want America to "shutup" imagin China keeps on telling U.S to decrease their miltary spending and make a huge deal out of this on international stage after the invasion of another nation for no good reason?
121 - Mr. Sha
Clavos,#117: I just came back from Canada, and a white gentleman, who worked for the Indian community in his early career, told me this. I couldn't believe it but he said it's true. Before I hearded this from him, I saw on Canadian TV dozens of Indian decendents protesting on Vancouver street accusing that their kinship is still being slaughtered. Brainwashed or you're not well informed? And that's the thing. People in the US seem not to have much historical perspectives and that's part of reason that it has created so many problems worldwide nowadays. Most of the answer of today's problems lies in history.
122 - Clavos
Mr. Sha, Perhaps in Canada there are hooligans and thugs who take pleasure in harming and maybe even killing Indians, but I assure there absolutely is NOT a law that permits them to do so legally.
It's just not true, and I'm surprised that you would believe it. No country in North America has a law on the books allowing anybody to kill anybody else, period.
123 - Mr. Sha
Clavos, the Canadian gentleman was not talking about now but 40 years ago. Maybe not a written law, but killers still could easily get away without getting any punishment. Anyway, how would you explain the Indian protesters in Vancouver accusing that their people is being slaughtered today? Who brainwashed them????, Red China media? My point is that before accusing of any country, go there, meet and talk to its people, understand their history, and then give opinions. Don't self-righteously jump on conclusions and judgments. So, between you and the Canadian gentleman, I would believe him more than you, because he was there and lived and worked with the Indians. I think many people don't agree with Bryan because he is self-righteous, lack of historical perspective and complete picture, and thinks only from his own perspective - what can you expect if he looks at the world through a telescope that is made by the prejudiced media in the US. Before accusing others or telling others what they suppose to do, clean your own house, then people bow to you. Double standard and self-righteousness simply won't work any more.
124 - Clavos
Mr. Sha, I have yet to express an opinion of any kind about China on this or any other thread.
You contradict yourself: first you say that the Canadian gentleman wasn't talking about today, but rather 40 years ago. Then, in the very next sentence you say protesters were alleging their people are being slaughtered today.
You haven't stated whether the Indians you're referring to are from India or are indigenous North Americans, so it's impossible to even understand what you're talking about.
Then you say:
My point is that before accusing of any country, go there, meet and talk to its people, understand their history, and then give opinions. Don't self-righteously jump on conclusions and judgments.
I have accused no one, nor have I jumped to any conclusions.
And again:
Before accusing others or telling others what they suppose to do, clean your own house, then people bow to you.
Again, I've accused no one. On the contrary, you're the one doing all the accusing in this dialogue.
And finally, you say:
Double standard and self-righteousness simply won't work any more.
Can you point to a place where I've used a double standard or been self-righteous?
I didn't think so.
125 - Chinese
Have a look at Jethro's logic, we can forgive him though, he is just a kid anway:
(1) Those EU media not pro-US = Leftist Media
(2) Those EU Professor not pro-US = Leftist professors, and they brainwash students to leftiest students.
(3) Those EU governments not pro-US = socialistic governments
(4) Those Middle-East dictactor governments = US Allies
(5) Those Middle-East governments not pro-US = Evil governments
(6) Those Middle-East people not pro-US = Terrorist
(7) China as a country can say NO to US = Red China
(8) Chinese people not pro-US = Brainwashed people by Communist Party