Ron Paul supporters have generated a backlash and the result may be disastrous for the GOP in November.
As the media continues to wax orgasmic over the ongoing struggle between Clinton and Obama to win the Democratic nomination, they are largely overlooking another potentially more interesting struggle taking place within the Republican party. Although John McCain is the presumptive nominee, as the various state conventions roll forward - largely in obscurity - conflict and chaos continue to be spread by Ron Paul's enthusiastic followers who continue to try to storm the ramparts of the GOP establishment.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Brian Kominsky
Dave - Your inflammatory rhetoric aside, you have no idea what happened in Nevada if you think we were disruptive. In fact, we persuaded the vast majority of delegates to make a rule change that opened up the nomination process. And we showed up. And considering the fact that Ron Paul got more support in NV than John McCain, who has never bothered to show in our state, I don't understand why the result was so surprising.
We show up. And we appeal to fairness. Horror of horrors. And about you trying to bring the R party back to its libertarian ideals, who is in fantasy land now?
Brian Kominsky
Clark County Nevada Coordinator
Ron Paul 2008
27 - Rachael
I won't have used the word "chaos" - kinda implies a Jerry Springer episode gone haywire. Nothing like that has happened due to Ron Paul supporters engaging in the Rule of Law process.
Of course there is going to be "conflict". McCain's thought process and platform (as is the current GOP neocon leadership's) is as far from a true Republican stance as you can get.
I've meet some of the John Birch guys and quite frankly they don't scare me half as much as Dick Chenney.
And
I don't get your reference to "anarcho-socialist infiltrators" - certainly you are NOT referring to Ron Paul supporters / delegates. I'm just a normal house-mom who is living in the real world of budgeting. Ron Paul is the only candidate whose proposed budget actually makes sense. Also he is the only candidate who has a twenty year consistent track record regarding a foreign policy of non-intervention.
Unlike the other egomaniacal candidates in this election, it is not about Ron Paul. (I actually think he would prefer to NOT be President.) It's about Americans waking up and taking responsibility for the god awful mess our country is in. The Ron Paul supporters are taking this to heart.
I highly doubt that if Ron Paul is not on the ballot that his supporters will jump ship and vote for Obama or Clinton as you suggest. If you are a Ron Paul supporter the reason why you are so hell bent in seeing him get the nomination is that you realize THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANY OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES. Mcain, Obama, Clinton. Its like choosing between Vanilla, Chocolate, and Strawberry ice cream when we need MEAT not sugary filler.
28 - Clavos
Pablo, You must be one of the millions of American students who had the misfortune to be taught (or not taught, actually) how to read in the American school system.
Tim in Minnesota wrote,
Your article is full of false accusations, misrepresentations of the facts. I have attended each level of the election process.
To which Dave replied,
Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states.
Which clearly (to anyone who can actually read), is in response to Tim's second sentence, I have attended each level of the election process.
Yet you, in your haste and eagerness to try and get the better of Dave (a new thrill for you), actually made a fool of yourself and revealed the paucity of your own reading "skills" by saying,
Then Davey responded with an astonishing revealing statement! He said:
"Perhaps, but you're clearly not at all familiar with how things have gone in other states".
Just to make my point, Dave are you actually you actually saying that PERHAPS your article is full of false accusations and misrepresentations? My oh my I am amazed at you frankness, and you being so candid as to admit the OBVIOUS.
What delicious irony! Hoist with your own petard!
Ah, Pablo, thanks so much for the amusement!
O, frabjous day!
29 - Jeff
Dave:
I hear what you are saying, and we tried your "get along" tactics at the Michigan Republican convention. We asked for 3 of the at large delegates to be given to Ron Paul. They wouldn't even give us one, and the main stick in the mud was Saul Anuizus, the state Republican chair, who you may remember as the fellow that tried to get Paul banned from the debates.
I can't speak for other states, but here in Michigan, it is crystal clear the only tactic that will work is hijacking the party.
30 - Dave Nalle
I also hear what you're saying, Jeff. I think that some state parties are much worse than others or dominated by small factions of the worst element within the GOP.
I can't say how it might have gone in Michigan, but my experience has been that in other states there are many regular GOP folks who feel as alienated and disenfranchised by party leadership which represents only a small faction of the party and they'd like to reach out to Ron Paul supporters and work with them.
I've got no problem with party leaders who have no interest in change and progress being cast down, but I hate to see the rank and file of the party disenfranchised and alienated in the process.
Dave
31 - Dave Nalle
You adore the CIA and the CFR. Your candidate of choice is a lifetime member of the CFR.
I voted for Ron Paul. Are you telling me he's a lifetime CFR member now?
Actually, I'm completely indifferent to the CFR. I don't agree with a lot of their policy suggestions but I realize they have very little power.
You talk liberty out of one side of your mouth, the other you side on the tin pot dictators,
I suppose that's a fair call. I do think that a benevolent, capitalist dictatoriship is one of the best ways to transition from tribalism or communism to a more equitable form of government.
the globalists,
Which globalists? The Birchers seem to be global these days. Very popular in the Netherlands and England.
the 9/11 commission,
Yes, I do think reality is better than fantasy.
terrorizing other countries with military juntas, etc.
What, you LIKE countries with military juntas?
Dave
32 - Dave Nalle
Dave - Your inflammatory rhetoric aside, you have no idea what happened in Nevada if you think we were disruptive.
Brian, read the damned article. I put the word 'disruptive' in quotes (see, I did it again), indicating that it was not my opinion or a statement of fact, but as clearly stated in that paragraph, it was the characterization of the behavior of Paul supporters by party leaders.
In fact, we persuaded the vast majority of delegates to make a rule change that opened up the nomination process. And we showed up. And considering the fact that Ron Paul got more support in NV than John McCain, who has never bothered to show in our state, I don't understand why the result was so surprising.
The result was the shutting down of the convention, or am I mistaken about that? Did you get a lot of positive resolutions passed to send on to the national convention?
Dave
33 - KING777TUT
Dave, you suck your master's.
34 - Dave Nalle
Lack the balls to finish that sentence, do you?
I'm no man's master and no man's slave, Tut. I'm also not a slave to ignorance and paranoia. Can you say as much?
Dave
35 - Pablo
Another big yawn for Davey. And for Clavos surely you can do better than that, your pettiness never ceases to amaze me. Instead of talking on the issues of the day you come crawling to Dave's aid, like a puppy dog. I am starting to wonder if your relationship with him is really platonic, as it seems like you adore him. I dont.
36 - Clavos
In your case, I don't have to do better, Pablo, you stumble into making a fool of yourself all on your own; lurching through these threads like a demented, bipolar paranoid schizophrenic street preacher.
You are your own worst enemy, Pablo.
37 - Drumz
"Attempted takeovers?" Is that we're calling democracy these days? Let the people speak. More importantly, let the people be heard. It's really a shame how the media has let us all down. They had so much potential.
38 - Dave Nalle
Drumz, you can't use Democracy as an excuse for silencing the minority. What did Jefferson say?
Taking over a convention and seizing almost all the delegates as the Ron Paul faction did in Texas CD25 is just as bad as the similarly disproportional abuse of power engaged in by the party establishment in some states.
Dave
39 - Keith
The bottom line here is the GOP has turned into a communistic party. I mean is there any other way to define this? When your ramming the delegates and the platform down the throats of the convention participants? How is it any different than a twice appointed president dictating to the Congress and the people. you've got the presumptive nominee telling town halls that we will be in Iraq for 100 years whether the people like it or not? That's not democracy. The gloves are coming off. As even the thickest military and GOP faithful realize this a self evident then the blood will flow. And high time I say! The neo conservatives seem addicted to the flow of blood unless it's their own. Once that starts their true colors come through and they're shown for the cowards that they are...Keep pushing the true conservative platform and Dr Paul I've lost my taste for fascist dictators!
40 - Lars
Dave, this is a revolution. It takes a few brave men and women. USofA is bankrupt and the Fed is printing money out of thin air, putting the 3 billion of the world's poor at risk due to record monetary inflation. Something has to be done.
41 - Keith
It also seems that John McCain had his name in the DC Madams phone book along with Dick Cheney. Now she's dead? In an election year no less..wonder who else will be suicided before this all unfolds?
Ron Paul isn't in anyones black book unless they're in need of an obstetrician or an honest politician!
42 - Andy Marsh
Keith - Do you have any proof tha McCain's name was in the Madams phone book...or are you just spouting typical bullshit?
I have a link right here and I don't see McCains name on it anywhere...could you maybe point it out to me?
43 - Lumpy
Isn't it about time to give up on trying to reason with the pod people? It's pointless. They aren't interested in anything but anarchy and destroying the GOP.
44 - Richard, CA
The Democrats and the Republicans are more interested in serving their party rather than the America people. In my opinion it wouldn’t be bad if they both get destroyed.
45 - Dave Nalle
You may have a point about the uselessness of trying to reason with the more extreme Paul supporters - who seem to be the most active on the net. There's something I can't quite put my finger on about their psychopathology which makes them completely impervious to any kind of ideas outside of their limited comfort zone.
Dave
46 - Richard, CA
So because we disagree on politics, Ron Paul supporters are crazy? We have mental disorders because we have a strong opinion on how our country is run and how our tax money is spent?
Interesting diagnosis "Dr" Nalle.
47 - Jasonh
Dave,
Why not have a primary then? What's the point in having a caucus if the whole process is a joke?
48 - Roger
It's always a little unsettling to feel like the "Ron Paul" Republicans are a bunch of weirdos. The neocons are the real weirdos living in their fantasy world, which happens to be our reality now. There is no need to be in their game! I really do hope Ron Paul and his message cuts thru the GOP. It's sad though that when people do try to have power and control their lives, like this country was set up to be, they get shut down or worst. That is sad.
Do yourself a favor though and read Ron Paul's new book!
49 - Dave Nalle
I'm of the opinion that the neocons and the more fanatical of Paul's followers are BOTH weirdos. Just different brands.
And for Richard:
So because we disagree on politics, Ron Paul supporters are crazy? We have mental disorders because we have a strong opinion on how our country is run and how our tax money is spent?
No, you're crazy because you believe fanatically in paranoid fantasies which have no basis in reality.
Dave
50 - TK
Dave: Thanks for the link to the young man from Maine. His blog post was fun to read, and helped prepare me mentally for the Texas GOP convention.
Where I hope people who support liberty and also understand how to gain power within an organization prevail. (Slowly, stealthily, quietly ... then wham! a new silent majority takes the reins!)
51 - Dave Nalle
I'd certainly like to see some decent representation for the libertarian perspective come out of the Texas convention. I'll be there doing what I can - but for real Libertarian values, not for Ron Paul or for the twisted agenda of the JBS.
I do still think that a lot more would be accomplished with an honest and less confrontational approach.
Dave
52 - zingzing
marion barry?
53 - Dave Nalle
One of my political heroes. Surely you revere him too?
Dave
54 - zingzing
ahh, you switched it. i'm no big fan of marion barry, although i do respect his ability to smoke crack AND get reelected. shit, i can barely stand up when i smoke crack. he must have inspired some love.
but why... why the marion barry nickname?
55 - Dave Nalle
I wrote a flippant comment under that name a week or so ago suggesting that 'free crack and hos' was always a winning political platform, and it was on a computer I rarely use which remembered the name and kept putting it on comments the next time I used it, until I caught it and stopped it.
Dave
56 - zingzing
ahh, fair enough.
57 - Richard, CA
I was going to write a retort to your little jab but then I remembered …. You’re just a blogger! Have a nice day Dave.
58 - Prophit
Amazing article filled with unbelievable rhetoric and lies, but then I read he is a capital hill staffer. What did I expect from the administration and congress that lie continually along with all the so called candidates, the worst batch in history. Of course their staffers would be screened for their lack of integrity and truthfulness.
Ron Paul supporters faced a GOP that broke all their own rules regarding the conventions and thus were forced to fight back, well good for them. Its better than the whimps who sit around like the Congressional staffers do and don't have any principles to stand up for. I am glad Ron Paul supporters have the spunk and the gall and the courage to face down the power structure.
Does it need it??? JUST CHECK OUT THE CURRENT CONDITION OF THIS COUNTRY AND YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWER. ITS GOING DOWN HILL RAPIDLY, if you don't believe me just go to the currency trading desk, go to the gas station and to the food store and see if you can buy anything you want and at a price even resembling what it was 6 months ago.
GET AWAKE WILL YA???? Your ignorance is killing our country.
59 - Watchman2008
Ron Paul is still in the Presidential Race for 2008. We as registered voters, have the 'Right' to vote for Ron Paul if we wish to. The GOP must understand that they are NOT God! If we do not want to vote for McCain, we won't! Ron Paul is our man!
60 - Prophit
Dave, your comment above about "paranoid fantasies" are coming home to roost. We are seeing it live as we watch. Currency is devaluing, debt is out of site, land confiscation under eminent domain is at record levels, food prices and scarsity is growing, oil is at record levels, Fed reserve now admits manipulating the gold and stock markets...... COME ON, YOUR IN DENIAL.
ITS CALLED "COGNITIVE DISSONANCE" that is when your internal "perceptions" do match your external reality, so you either deny, rationalize, justify, excuse or otherwise go crazy. It appears you are chosing all of the above and using Ron paul and his supporters as scape goats for your inability to reconcile what is currently going down with what you WANT to be the reality of today. Too bad, your simply going to have to grow up and face it and find some damn courage will ya????
Or at least find some integrity.
61 - Prophit
Dave, here is your hero, McCain in full swing action........ now tell me again about RP supporters being paranoid????? hahahaha
You really must face reality of this man and his agenda for globalizing through population relocation activities. He is another puppet. He has a CFR advisor on his campaign staff. Wake up and smell the treason and I am not even a Ron Paul supporter...... I supported Romney. LOL
But, as a registered republican I WILL NOT SUPPORT THE TRAITOR MCCAIN WHO BLOCKED ALL EFFORTS TO RETREIVE OUR POW'S AND RELEGATED THEM TO A LIFE OF HELL FOR THESE PAST 30 YEARS. I WILL NEVER FORGIVE HIM FOR THAT, NOT EVER.
62 - Prophit
Dave, your comments about "personal attacks".... does that apply to you as well? Does it apply only to us and not you???? Let us know so we can judge what we are dealing with here.
If its like the neocons and GOP who violated their own bylaws, rules and roberts rules of order, then I don't belong here anyway. Neither does anyone of integrity.
63 - Dennis Grover
As a member of the "free" press, I personally videotaped the convention from start to abrupt end and then for the following hours with interviews of the frustrated delegates. The convention and stalling tactics of those running the show leads the viewer to obvious conclusions, the desires of all delegates were ignored, the will of the people was ignored and the only result of the convention at this time is to feed the frustrations of Nevada's citizens and label the Nevada GOP as unresponsive to their desires. After viewing the convention for a second time, first of all it is worse than the first time, and evident that time was ample to accomplish the business that should have been done but wasted with trivialities. The room was not just full of those pesky Ron Paul people, it was full of Americans volunteering their time and money to participate in a process for change, and the Nevada GOP denied them their opportunity. There is no "making a deal" because GOP leadership doesn't agree with their own rules. Sue Lowden (and everyone else in attendance) needs to watch her "Welcoming" speech at the convention and listen carefully to her own words.
64 - Jim Palmisano
"Some of us have been working for decades to return the GOP to its traditional libertarian values, and to take control away from the statists and the religious right."
Too bad Dave. We've accomplished in 8 months what you people have been working decades to attempt and you still haven't accomplished it. It's time people like you join in or step aside.
We're getting it done.
65 - Dave Nalle
Reality check time, Jim. What you're 'getting done' is creating a backlash which will make libertarianism a dirty word in the GOP for years to come.
And Dennis. I'd love to see that video, especially the opening speech. Is it online anywhere?
Dave
66 - Orat
"That's a bit disingenuous. Is it not true that you forced a vote to throw out all the recommendations of the nominating committee and take entirely new delegate nominations from the floor? That's what multiple media sources have reported happened. That's a takeover."
No, it's called an ELECTION! Maybe you've heard of them?
Oh, and when you hold an election, and 50%+1 of the people support one group of people, it's not surprising to see 100% of those elected at that convention to relfect the views of that 50%+1. That's how the process works. If we didn't want an actual election, then why hold a convention where delegates can vote? Why not just make everything automatic? We have conventions FOR A REASON. Figure it out.
67 - Kez
"And Dennis. I'd love to see that video, especially the opening speech. Is it online anywhere?"
Dave, follow the URL link next to Dennis Grover's name. You'll discover that you can buy the full video from the convention. It's a bit too long to publish on YouTube, so I guess that's why he's going the CD route.
68 - Kez
By the way, the solution to all this "chaos" is the big tent philosophy of the Republican Party. The Party leadership should embrace all this new-found energy, not try to clamp down and alient. Let some good ole rivalry heat up at this stage of that process - after all, that's what competition and campaigns are for. But, come November, we all know where folks will be voting - unless they feel disenfranchised by the Party itself.
69 - Simon9
The reality, as I see it, is that Ron Paul supporters (and by that it's really supporters of Ron Paul's overall agenda) are cut from a broad range of people: small business owners frustrated by taxes/regulations, John Birchers, White supremicists, middle class consumers who note their purchasing power shrinking, 9/11 truthers who still haven't gotten an explanation as to how two planes can take down three towers, Classical liberals who love small government, fans of Austrian economics who understand the value of sound money, old farts who can remember when there wasn't a federal rule for everything, prostitutes, civil libertarians who resent the unarguable erosion of our rights, potheads, etc, etc.
Point is, they vary, but all have an interest in freedom, economic and/or personal because they want to make their own choices and they recognize our federal govt is largely incompetent and many of its activities are Constitutionally improper. And they want change. And they know it's NOT going to happen with any of the anointed candidates the media has spoonfed the American public.
Some Ron Paul supporters might be rude, or even nuts. But I am tired of all being tarred with the same brush because any honest person can see it's simply not the case.
My perception is this country is getting ripe for a revolution. I prefer it being civil and lawful rather than the alternative, an option that may become more likely with time as our current system gets closer to imploding.
70 - Jeremy
Could this author "Dave" be any more full of crap? First of all, the whole point of the conventions is to nominate and elect delegates from the attending levels to attend the next convention. Ron Paul delegates are showing up because they were ELECTED at their precinct caucuses, they're not "infiltrating". Secondly, it was the GOP who tried to change the rules at the Nevada GOP convention, NOT THE RON PAUL people! The GOP tried to limit the nominees for RNC delegates to THEIR people, instead of leaving it open to the floor as according to the rules in almost every state. That's why we have conventions. Dave Navalle: YOU ARE A SHILL FOR THE ESTABLISHMENT, GROW SOME BALLS!
71 - Haze
Tell me again. Who's out of order? Is it the Republicans who support a man of the highest integrity this Country has seen in decades - or is it those who castigate these people; demeaning them for the courage and fortitude to stand up for what they believe in?
What kind of individuals are willing to back a candidate for the highest office of the United States who has a documented military history of negligence and recklessness?
What kind of fools are quick to blame others for the disruption and demise of a political party while they themselves mortally compromise it, and their Country, by supporting a man who collaborated with the enemy, who's known as "Songbird McCain" by those who were imprisoned with him; who as senator came to be considered the worst enemy of MIA/POWs for constantly belittling and stifling their concerns and inquiries; a man who dumped his sick wife for an heiress when he got back from Vietnam.
What kind of substance must one have, to pretend to stand for what's right and good for this Country yet spurn the support of a principled man who has for decades proven his honesty and unwavering commitment to serving the American people?
Dave, now is not the time to waste haggling over pretenses and calling names. This nation can't afford to do anything less than what is morally sound: Stand behind the best man.
72 - SillySally
The press has been very kind to the Nevada Republican Party. This was the first non-binding caucus in over 20 years, and the best thing that has happened to the NRP. Being non-Ron Paul, the facts are fairly simple:
*Only about 10% of Nevada's registered Republicans attended the Caucus.
*In the most populous county, Clark (or Las Vegas), most of the attendees were not interested in being a delegate.
*Out of more than 6,000 delegates who were nominated to be a delegate at County Convention, less than half chose to actually attend. Mitt Romney received 51% of our vote and promptly dropped out. All Alternates were moved up.
*Out of the 3,000 who attended the County Convention, less than 1/3 signed on to go the State Convention.
*Out of the 1,000 who signed up, maybe 600 actually attended from Clark County.
If Nevada goes to Ron Paul, it's because his supporters worked hard and deserve it. If Nevadan's are offended by this fact, they should have got off their butts and participated in the process through the end like I did.
For the party leadership to step in at the very end and blatently change the rules like they did, well, they deserve the 1st place award for poor sportsmanship. The fact that they are being praised by our press for putting an end to this "nonsense" (demanding a fair vote) is disgusting.
I believe congratulations are in order to the Ron Paul supporters for waking Nevada up. Maybe next election the campaigns may not take us former sheeple for granted. That is, of course, if we have a non-binding caucus again. The leadership is moving to become an early caucus state, but it will probably be binding. I never want to go back to a primary. I like the non-binding caucus.
73 - Dave Nalle
Caucuses are a lot more responsive to candidates with enthusiastic supporters and a lot less good for candidates with broad bases of less fanatical support. This has helped Obama enormously among the Democrats where he's done much better in caucuses than he has in primaries.
This is a good thing in some ways, but it also leaves a lot of voters who don't have time to be party activists left out in the cold. Plus it tends to push the parties towards more extreme and ideological candidates.
The GOP is lucky that it's Ron Paul supporters trying to use the process to skew things their way this time and not some far-right religiously fanatical faction or something even worse.
Dave
74 - Dave Nalle
I wonder how Ron Paul supporters are enjoying the Utah and Arizona GOP conventions today. Haven't seen much news out of them yet.
I bet they weren't too excited by Orrin Hatch's opening speech in Utah, where he described Bush as 'unappreciated' and 'a great president'.
Dave
75 - Pablo
Dave,
I thought you might be interested in this article in the La Times about Dr. Paul, as it is very much related to your article.
La Times article on Dr. Paul
I found this quote to be very interesting from one of the commentators very interesting.
"
Not sure if the author really understands pledged delegates, but thats all they are is pledged. By simply winning delegate slots to the National Convention Ron Paul supporters and Huckabee supporters only need to abstain in order for McCain not to get the required amount of votes.
These are the people showing up at the local caucuses and state conventions and are taking the national delegate spots. However it can go deeper - its estimated that Ron Paul has over 600 delegates to date that will either switch thier votes from McCain to Paul or just abstain. These are delegate votes that McCain will not get and put him back under the magic number. While Ron Paul may not have enough votes to win the Republican Nomination, he probably will have enough to broker the convention.
It really does not matter who wins the primaries, it matter's who shows up at the State Caucuses - because those are the people that end up going to the Republican National Convention and voting for the Republican nominee. So in your article when you say McCain locked it up long ago, you mean in theory, but the problem with McCain is that he has no ground support, he was a media made nominee that was basically voted in by people who have no idea how the system works and do whatever the media says like robots. They DO NOT show up at caucus because they think its all over, little do they know.
Abraham Lincoln went into his nominating convention with 32 delegates and came out the nominee.
Look out - its not over folks"