The unraveling of the Empire would have the same inevitability of a Greek tragedy.
One of the enduring myths sedulously cultivated by apologists of American foreign policy is that America, the land of the free and the brave, is besieged by malevolent foreign powers. In the realm of pure thought unsullied by empiric evidence the lone superpower bravely battles rogue states to prevent free societies from nuclear extinction. As Michael Howard, Regius Professor of Modern History at Oxford says, “For 200 years the United States has preserved almost unsullied the original ideals of the enlightenment: the belief in the God-given rights of the individual, the inherent rights of free assembly and free speech, the blessings of free enterprise, the perfectibility of man, and, above all, the universality of these values”.
But is the record of the ‘defender of freedom’ in contemporary history unblemished? “Two hundred years (of US history) is illustrated by a century of literal human slavery,” writes Chomsky in Deterring Democracy, “and effective disenfranchisement of Blacks for another century, genocidal assaults on native population, the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Filipinos at the turn of the century, of millions of Indochinese, of some 200,000 Central Americans in the past decade.”…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Dave Nalle
Bliffle, you're just dead wrong about unions. They may look weak from where you are, but try building anything in Chicago and see how far you get without hiring a bunch of union layabouts just to be able to sign a contract.
For that matter, the NEA is the most powerful union in America and it's insanely powerful and influences national policy constantly and in very negative ways.
Dave
77 - joe
#75
And guess why Marx is still popular in understanding Wall Street? He understood the shitheads perfectly.
78 - joe
Dave#76
Have you tried your hand at fiction writing?
79 - joe
#63-Stm
'I'm arguing that the US is an empire, albeit a reasonably benevolent one compared to what you could have (Nazism, Stalinism, Sharia law and Castro's Cuba are great examples).'
'Throughout the world, on any given day,a man, woman or child is likely to be displaced,tortured, killed, or disappeared,at the hands of governments or armed political groups. More often than not, the United States shares the blame.'Guess who said that? Not a 'commie' but Amnesty International in its 1996 report.
one can't help recalling the immortal lines of Vice President Agnew " The United States,for all its faults, is still the greatest nation in the country.'
80 - joe
Clavos#59
In public health Cuba offers interesting statistics:
Infant mortality-cuba-19 per 1000 births, Great Britain-11,Mexico-47,Guatemala-51, Argentina-32, El Salvador-60, Chile-36 (source WHO).For a population of almost 10 million there are 260 hospitals. malaria ,polio,diphtheria.This in spite of the illegal sanctions imposed against Cuba.
Say clavos how was cuba during your pal Batista?
81 - joe
#80
malaria ,polio,diphtheria eradicated from Cuba.
82 - joe
#68 stm
'idiots mouthing socialist platitudes they've read about in books.'
still a shade better than sticking big mac in our mouths, roll our eyes and watch CNN spin yarns aboutWMD.
83 - Dave Nalle
Have you tried your hand at fiction writing?
Why yes, Joe. Take a look at this snippet.
Dave
84 - Clavos
Joe,
In public health Cuba offers interesting statistics:
Infant mortality-cuba-19 per 1000 births, Great Britain-11,Mexico-47,Guatemala-51, Argentina-32, El Salvador-60, Chile-36 (source WHO).For a population of almost 10 million there are 260 hospitals. malaria ,polio,diphtheria.This in spite of the illegal sanctions imposed against Cuba.
Medically, it's paradise, probably every other way, too, but don't take my word for it, ask Ricardo Alarcón.
And yet, all the traffic between the US and Cuba is one way; they're coming here.
So why is everyone leaving every chance they get?
You can bray 24/7 about how wonderful Fidel's socialist paradise is, but the rest of the world notes the fact that the Cuban people are taking enormous risks to leave, on a daily basis.
85 - STM
Joe wrote: "still a shade better than sticking big mac in our mouths, roll our eyes and watch CNN spin yarns aboutWMD."
Forget about the Big Macs mate, I'm an Aussie. I prefer a meat pie with sauce (ketchup) and a cold beer.
I never bought the line about WMD either, but having lived in Iraq as a kid and being forced to leave the place as the Baathists were coming to power probably gives me a skewed view to a certain extent, but I am glad that Saddam and his stalinist cronies were removed from power. And mate, I almost never watch CNN. It's the BBC or ABC (the Aussie one) or nothing.
I'm quite capable of forming my own opinions uninfluenced by American propaganda. I'd ask you too Joe, have you ever been to a communist country for any length of time? I was in the Soviet Union in the early 80s, and it wasn't that much fun, even from the leftie point of view of my 20s. Shortages of everything, and people really struggling on a daily basis.
Just finding toilet paper was a drama, although Pravda did come in handy. I'd rather have been struggling in America than struggling in the Soviet Union. There's no comparison.
86 - Dave Nalle
I am glad that Saddam and his stalinist cronies were removed from power.
I'd ask you too Joe, have you ever been to a communist country for any length of time?
Let me second that one. And I've got a guess at the answer.
I was in the Soviet Union in the early 80s, and it wasn't that much fun, even from the leftie point of view of my 20s. Shortages of everything, and people really struggling on a daily basis.
I was there in the mid-70s. It wasn't much fun then either. I was never gladder not to be a native than when I walked by the lines of 100 people waiting with their ration cards at a bakery which would likely produce only 20 loaves of bread. At least by the 80s things were falling apart so the bakery was probably actually baking 100 loaves and selling them out the back door. If that's an improvement.
I've got a Russian joke for you from the 70s.
Nixon has just arrived in hell and runs into Brezhnev during a brief break on his first day of endless roasting.
Nixon says, "Damn, Leonid. It's unbearable over in the American hell. The furnaces run full blast all day long."
Brezhnev laughs and says "Well, come on over to the Russian hell. The furnaces are broken and the spare parts factory retooled to make freezer coils to meet the 5 year plan."
Dave
87 - STM
Yeah, Dave .. and how about how every bastard used to carry one of those brown, polished cardboard schoolcases or a big shopping bag just in case there was a queue at GUM a bakery or butcher's. The funniest: the queue outside the big whitegoods/electric lights/appliances shop near the space park just off Prospekt Mira that almost never had any whitegoods/electric lights/appliances except the display ones in the window. You had to be quick, or know someone.
Sometimes people told me they just joined a queue when they saw one, and didn't know what they were queuing for. But they did it just in case it was something good. Even the Russian smokes were shockers. Nice beer, though ... and dirt cheap at the railway station bar.
88 - Dave Nalle
You ever try the fermented bread drink, Stan? Nasty, nasty stuff.
Because we were diplos we got to shop at the special stores reserved for party members. They were amusing in their own way. For example, you couldn't buy a rib-eye or a t-bone or any other steak or cut of beef for roasting. You could only buy filet mignon. I think it says a great deal that the embassy brought in certain staple goods from Finland by diplomatic pouch. That's when I learned that eggs and milk could be frozen.
Dave
89 - STM
Nah, drank plenty of vodka but never tried the bread drink but someone did try to foist something like it on me and I resisted whilst continuing to drink vast quantities of beer at the Leningrad railway station (in Moscow!). Only people who've been there know why you do this - because if you're just Joe average (99.99 per cent of the population), it's the only accessible 24-hour bar in Moscow.
On the meat thing, I did accidentally order the horse one time at a restaurant because I saw it going past and it looked like a steak.
I said: "I'll have what he's having". Waitress: "Are you sure, Sir?"
Me: "Course I'm bloody sure. Medium rare thanks".
When I complained about the gamey taste, the waitress said: "I thought you liked to eat horse".
90 - joe
Dave,
'Poverty in America? One of the richest countries in the world?
Yes, poverty is a reality in America, just as it is for millions of other human beings on the planet. According to the US Census Bureau, 35.9 million people live below the poverty line in America, including 12.9 million children.'
gee dave you must be one of the well heeled ones.
91 - joe
stm,
you are lucky chum to live in Australia. With job losses in USA there may be slow boat from US to China.
92 - Dave Nalle
Wow, STM. You were in a restaurant which was both open and had an actual waitress who then actually spoke to you? Did the moon turn blue while you were there?
dave
93 - Dave Nalle
[Edited]
The artificially set 'poverty level' in the US is higher than the median income of 90% of the other countries in the world, and jobs earning above that level go begging every day throughout most of the country.
As for 'job loss', I guess you mean jobs that lose their workers to higher paying jobs, right? Because even with the illegals we're hovering on the brink of a critical labor shortage.
Dave
94 - Dr Dreadful
Dave #86: LOL. One of my favorites is that other classic Russian joke:
Two Muscovites are waiting in the bread line. After several hours, one of them says, "I'm sick of this. I'm going to the Kremlin to shoot Brezhnev."
So he stomps off, but an hour or so later he reappears and sullenly takes his place at the back of the line. His friend turns to him and says, "So what happened? Did you shoot Brezhnev?"
The first guy shakes his head and says, "No. The line was longer there."
95 - bliffle
"#40 " May 7, 2007 @ 21:11PM " joe
biffle,
...
your story of O is heart rending."
Yes, poor fellow. He may be forced to live in a province with mild weather, a lazy wide river wandering thru it, in a village of vignerons surrounded by the most glamorous chateaux in the world just a bike ride away. *Sigh*.
96 - bliffle
"#76 " May 11, 2007 @ 00:48AM " Dave Nalle [URL]
Bliffle, you're just dead wrong about unions. They may look weak from where you are, but try building anything in Chicago and see how far you get without hiring a bunch of union layabouts just to be able to sign a contract."
Chicago? Why would I do that? I'm nowhere near Chicago, never hire anyone, and don't sign contracts, except buy or sell.
97 - STM
Dave wrote: "Wow, STM. You were in a restaurant which was both open and had an actual waitress who then actually spoke to you? Did the moon turn blue while you were there?"
Lol. I was a good-lookin' fella when I was young, and even got a date with an Aeroflot hostie who gave me all the Heiniken on the flight, then wine when it ran out, and took my suit to be dry cleaned after she'd spilled a pot of coffee over it. It was a given she was telling the KGB, but who cares?
It was a hotel where I was staying - as a (recalcitrant) guest of the Soviet government.
They had a disco too, where a really nasty young drunken Arab bloke speaking perfect English and obviously studying the nefarious activities for which the USSR was famous got really stuck into me one night because he thought I was British.
I just let him rant for 10 minutes, then told him I was Australian and I didn't understand anything he was talking about.
Ah yes. The Hotel Cosmos (probably a bit after your time?), what a wonderful place. Lots of nice beetroot soup (actually, apart from the aforementioned horse, the food wasn't too bad and believe it or not, the service was (just) OK) - a shortage of bog rolls though ...
Those were the days.
98 - STM
Bliff asked: "Anyone else have experience of dollar devaluation helping them?"
Yes, with our dollar now regularly getting towards 85 cents of your dollar (that 10 cents makes all the difference), American car companies are once again starting to export US-made vehicles into Australia, and at really affordable prices. While we have GM (Holden) and Ford Australia here, their products, although quality, are locally designed and built and just staple fare.
So it's nice to see a few quality American cars (notable from Chrysler) added to the mix from around the world after a very long hiatus. That's one benefit of a falling US dollar - it's good for American exports, and as we all know, value-adding is the way to go. I don't see the US economy going west just yet.
I don't plan to get one just yet as I've just bought a Froggie turbo-diesel that's saving me a zillion in fuel costs, but my wife has been eyeing off a few and my mate has just bought a V8 Chrysler 300C wagon, which is a pretty nice car and for a big mutha, not too bad on the juice.
99 - Dave Nalle
Lol. I was a good-lookin' fella when I was young, and even got a date with an Aeroflot hostie who gave me all the Heiniken on the flight, then wine when it ran out, and took my suit to be dry cleaned after she'd spilled a pot of coffee over it. It was a given she was telling the KGB, but who cares?
She was probably just happy to see someone who didn't drink themselves into unconsciousness during the course of the flight.
It was a hotel where I was staying - as a (recalcitrant) guest of the Soviet government.
I hate to even imagine how you ended up in that unenviable position.
Ah yes. The Hotel Cosmos (probably a bit after your time?),
When I was there the top hotel in Moscow was the Ukraina, though I believe they had just finished a new hotel. It might have been the Cosmos. The Ukraina was built under Stalin. It had a great lobby, but the rooms were small and a lot of them were unusable.
Dave
100 - Dave Nalle
Speaking of US cars in Australia, I don't suppose Dodge/Chrysler is selling their Deisel/Electric Hybrid pickup truck over there?
Dave
101 - STM
No, not at this stage. However, the imports are Dodge and Chrysler at this stage. Hybrids aren't that popular here. They sell a few of the Prius and the cheaper Honda hybrid, but most people who are interested in that stuff have just jerried to the fact that turbo-diesels with good emission and particulate controls are a) really clean, and b) really cheap to run (my Peugeot costs me about $25 a week in fuel, and I drive every day but Sunday from the outer suburbs to the city). Amazing - 5L/100km. I don't know the US conversion, but it's the equivalent of a hybrid, perhaps better.
102 - Clavos
STM sez:
Amazing - 5L/100km. I don't know the US conversion, but it's the equivalent of a hybrid, perhaps better.
It is indeed: a hair over 48 mpg...
103 - sc
The military budget of US is mind boggling.
For fiscal year 2006, Robert Higgs of the Independent Institute calculated national security outlays at almost a trillion dollars -- $934.9 billion to be exact -- broken down as follows (in billions of dollars):
Department of Defense: $499.4
Department of Energy (atomic weapons): $16.6
Department of State (foreign military aid): $25.3
Department of Veterans Affairs (treatment of wounded soldiers): $69.8
Department of Homeland Security (actual defense): $69.1
Department of Justice (1/3rd for the FBI): $1.9
Department of the Treasury (military retirements): $38.5
NASA (satellite launches): $7.6
Interest on war debts, 1916-present: $206.7
Totaled, the sum is larger than the combined sum spent by all other nations on military security.(Evil Empire: Is Imperial Liquidation Possible for America? By Chalmers Johnson)
104 - Anand Menon
Dave Nalle..you said "Finally, one comment for Anand. The dollar has been deliberately deflated as part of an economic strategy which thus far seems to have been pretty successful. As for the 'housing bubble', it's not bursting. Every expert seems to agree that the adjustments are short-term, and the impact of artifically low interest rates wore off quite a while ago. You can bleat about economic doom and gloom all you want, but the evidence just isn't there to support it, so long as the deficits continue to go down at an accelerated rate and the value of the dollar starts to rebound correspondingly as we ought to see in the next few months..."
this was posted in in May Nalle..well we've all waited....a few months...NO SIGN OF A REBOUND ...YET...in fact the dollar has only plumbed new depths....now we are approaching August....and see what lies in store for the dollar..
US Dollar Threatens to Break Key Support Level
As for Clavos #11...you said something about selling boats didn't you?
hers's some news for you if you didn't know about it already... More Evidence of Spillover from US Housing Market to Consumer Sector
GUYS.... PLEASE TELL ALL OF US WHAT WERE THE GROUNDS FOR YOUR OPTIMISM??
105 - Dave Nalle
Anand, have you looked at the stock market, unemployment, household income, consumer spending, or anything except for the two of dozens of economic indicators which happen to be negative while all the rest are positive?
Dave
106 - Anand Menon
they are all going one way Nalle baby.....DOWN;)
107 - gonzo marx
we will see today...yer gonzo predicts bigtime drop ion all markets due to HUGE losses in housing market being reported today
how bad? dunno...but time fer one of those "corrections" it appears...i'm no market expert, so i won't even venture a guess, but i would advise putting yer $$ in canned goods and shotguns
Excelsior?
108 - Clavos
Or, take the opportunity to BUY.
It has been dropping most of the past two weeks, and I'm picking up some real bargains.
109 - gonzo marx
hey Clavos, if you can pick up real estate in this market (especially foreclosures) then you will be ahead of the game
wait for the bottom and pick up some lender stocks really cheap (Countrywide, GM financing(read ditech), some others)
Apple will run strong with their numbers coming out on the iPhone, but i bought shares in the 90's at $12, so i'm pretty happy there (only stock i own)
but the foreclosure numbers, downslide in new home sales...other factors...i don't think folks will be jumping out of windows, but is too early to tell
it has long been a theory for some economists that we have been driven by the housing market for the last 6-8 years...low interest rates doing most of the work...but now it appears to be catching up, the pricing bubble bursting and those cheap money adjustable rates slamming down on folks who bought too much house for their budget
i'm hoping things sort themselves out well, but i ain't counting on it
Excelsior?
110 - Clavos
"it has long been a theory for some economists that we have been driven by the housing market for the last 6-8 years...low interest rates doing most of the work...but now it appears to be catching up, the pricing bubble bursting and those cheap money adjustable rates slamming down on folks who bought too much house for their budget"
Quoted for Truth, gonzo, quoted for Truth.
BTW, when I spoke of bargains, I was talking about stocks, not real estate.
Oddly enough, sellers in real estate haven't panicked yet (at least not in this market) and prices are holding fairly well still (though sales ARE way down), so there aren't that many bargains out there yet.
The stock market is another matter.
111 - gonzo marx
well Clavos, the bursting of Housing added to weak dollar market value and the upcoming crises for those mortgage lenders should send housing prices WAY down soon...and stay there until interest rates get cheap again, and all those foreclosed folks get their credit right again
add all this to gasoline prices and the ripple effect of that (check yer grocery bill lately?)
not sure how bad it's going to get, other Indicators look good...but a DOW over 10,000 and a NASDAQ over 2000 (mebbe 2500 cap) tells me there's gonna be hell to pay in the next few months as things ripple out into the larger economy
hope i'm wrong, and everything gets stable with little Pain
but i wouldn't bet that way
Excelsior?
112 - bliffle
Dave: "The dollar has been deliberately deflated ..."
Is that the same dollar deflation you insisted was non-existent a couple months ago?
113 - Clavos
As I said, gonzo, lots of opportunity out there...
114 - gonzo marx
well Clavos, only if you are sitting on some liquidity
wish i could take advantage of it, but medical bills and the last year on disability left me rolling pennies for a pack of smokes to help me make it through this current bout of standing in pain for the next day or so
but i digress...
Excelsior?
115 - Clavos
As you know, gonzo, plenty of medical bills and pain, etc. here, too, so much empathy goes out to you.
That said, QUIT SMOKING, my friend.
I smoked for 26 years; quit in 1985, after my father and father-in-law both died within a year of each other (both too young), from smoking related problems.
Nobody preaches more than a reformed --------, I know. But it's literally life and death, gonzo.
116 - gonzo marx
much Appreciation for the kind thoughts there Clavos
but compared to some of my old habits (long since quit)...my friend Smoke is all i got left, and about the only thing that helps sometimes when 1500 milligrams of Vicodin doesn't dent the pain...the Zen of a Smoke can help get through difficult moments
have quite before, sometimes for years at a clip, and didn't start until i was in the service
we will see, if this gut problem ever gets resolved, i'll quit again..but right now moderation and thoughtful care about dosage appears to work for me so far
well, as best as can be expected
Excelsior?
117 - Anand Menon
The bloodbath that is to be unleashed on the stock markets and financial world is a result of the consequences of empire.The present situation is anticipated brilliantly in Frank Partnoys book "Infectious Greed".I for one am not a great fan of gloom and doom books,but this one had me hooked.If any reads it and then surveys the present situation in the global stock/ financial markets he/she would quickly understand what is meant when references are euphemistically made as to the present "credit crunch".....which is another way of saying Greed has taken its toll.
This really is the beginning of the end of the American Empire...the way things are going pretty soon you can take those dollars and make paper boats to float in your bathtub...thats what they are going to be worth.
118 - Nancy
Gonzo, ol' buddy, I 2nd Clavos about the smokes - unless it's some good Acupulco Gold you've got. But tobacco isn't worth squat. I'd send you some of my oxyc. but I don't think BushCo allows it thru the mail. Failing that, best thoughts for your relief. I'll pray to Juju ... or whomever.
Anand, I think you're right. Alas.
119 - El Bicho
"unless it's some good Acupulco Gold"
HA HA. Let me guess, you are still buying lids and listening to Cheech & Chong records. Please keep up with the lingo.
120 - Anand Menon
America as the land of opportunity has passed into history.
121 - Anand Menon
This is a strong economy?
122 - Anand Menon
Heyy... where's Nalle?... where's the dollar?... where's the quick rebound?... where's the effing stock market?
123 - Anand Menon
MR.NALLE..STILL BELEIVE THE DOLLAR IS REBOUNDING??
China has got the U.S by the short hair
124 - Dave Nalle
Anand, do you seriously think a dollar turnaround and rebound is going to happen in a matter of 3 months?
And please don't waste peoples time linking to Paul Craig Roberts or any of the other Dobbsians with thier ridiculous theory about China dumping US dollar investments. A 6th grader could think that theory through and see how illogical it is.
I posted this on another thread recently, but let me post it for you too. I tried to keep the words simple.
When I edited this last night I was going to have some fun responding, but I was too tired, and now Clavos has beat me to it. This is a classic, Joel - the perfect mix of paranoia, hyperbole and sheer craziness. It's like you're channeling Lou Dobbs or something.
Oh, what the hell, I'll hit a couple of the highpoints.
Ok, how does China 'dump' US investments? Does it discount the price and then sell them to other people? Ok, that sounds believable. Plenty of people out there to buy them. Now, whose economy does this destroy? Well, the Chinese would take a huge hit if the sold them at a discount, so they'd be damaged economically. Then other countries or banks would buy them and expect them to be redeemed at face value. They make a nice profit. Sounds good for them. But what's the impact for the US. How does this 'nuclear' economic bomb impact us. The debts still have the same face value, the same interest rate and the same term of the maturity. When the new owners redeem them we get exactly the same amount for them the Chinese would have. So how, exactly, does this make the deal any worse for the US? All I see is the Chinese losing money and the buyers making money. At worst it might result in market saturation of US debt instruments making it harder for us to get credit, a temporary and likely very limited problem.
Dave
125 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Faling Stocks Characterized as "Mini-Panic"
While Dave Nalle is busy dispensing the Prozac, little problems with the American sub-prime market appear to be causing some distress among investors.
Then there is the threat of China unloading its dollars. While some will choose to inbibe Kool-ade with the Prozac Mr. Nalle dispenses, others are viewing the American dollar with a bit of alarm. Given that I have merely a few rolls of wheat pennies and about $3.50 in other American tokens (money changers in Israel will not exchange tokens of other currencies, only banknotes), I don't really have a problem. But you Yanks might find you have one soon, depending on whether China actually decides to dump its dollars or not.
You know, Dave, you may be technically correct in that the value of the American debt will not shrink merely because it changes hands. But in finance, as in politics and so many other things, it is perception that counts, not reality.
There are occasionally certain advantages to being poor...
shavua tov - have a good week,
Reuven
PS - By the way, the shekel seems to have dropped back in value - but the euro has risen to nearly six shekels in value - so a can of Coke costing 9½ euros in Europe, the equivalent of nearly sixty shekels - costs ten times what it does in a shwarma shop in Jerusalem. Ahh! The joys of international finance...