The unraveling of the Empire would have the same inevitability of a Greek tragedy.
One of the enduring myths sedulously cultivated by apologists of American foreign policy is that America, the land of the free and the brave, is besieged by malevolent foreign powers. In the realm of pure thought unsullied by empiric evidence the lone superpower bravely battles rogue states to prevent free societies from nuclear extinction. As Michael Howard, Regius Professor of Modern History at Oxford says, “For 200 years the United States has preserved almost unsullied the original ideals of the enlightenment: the belief in the God-given rights of the individual, the inherent rights of free assembly and free speech, the blessings of free enterprise, the perfectibility of man, and, above all, the universality of these values”.
But is the record of the ‘defender of freedom’ in contemporary history unblemished? “Two hundred years (of US history) is illustrated by a century of literal human slavery,” writes Chomsky in Deterring Democracy, “and effective disenfranchisement of Blacks for another century, genocidal assaults on native population, the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Filipinos at the turn of the century, of millions of Indochinese, of some 200,000 Central Americans in the past decade.”…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Aaman
To take the discussion a bit further afield, consider the case of indirect, almost 'remote control' rule in Africa, specifically in places like the DRC (Congo), the assassination of Lumumba because he threatened to go over to the Russians, and the subsequent threat of loss of control over the natural resources, and the British control of other African nations.
The sad part is that for the most part, the American empire is being built on the ashes of other empires - the Belgian, the French, and the British, and most of these ended in an undefined political state - furthermore, they brought in social and economic progress during their imperial rule, but not correlated with political growth and maturity, and so we have all the not-quite-nations that the United States is struggling to keep at peace, or variously, at war.
Pax Romana != Pax Americana, although the Roman corollary is an apt one.
27 - Anand Menon
would love to watch Nalle eat crow.....watch this space
28 - Clavos
During the time Bush and co. have been in power the dollar has depreciated by 40%....and it is sliding further ...towards the shit creek....watch the trillion dollar housing bubble burst...deflating consumer spending.....watch the subsequent effect on the stock market balloon ...which is otherwise enjoying the last wisps of Greenspan's low interest helium swirling into the largest credit bubble in history.....watch the consequences of Empire....watch it Mr.Nalle .....and weep.
When I first read this, I thought the tone sounded gloating, as if this commenter hoped for all these things to happen, then I saw this:
would love to watch Nalle eat crow.....watch this space
And I realized that's exactly what he wants.
Don't hold your breath.
Oh, and BTW, expect more interest rate cuts later this year...
29 - Anand Menon
The Housing collapse has been documented by people in the know... Prof michael Hudson anticipated this a long time ago ...nobody listened then they will be forced to listen now...
Prof Hudson also anticipated the present state of affairs vis a vis the dollar
Mr.Nalle...."dollars starts to rebound.."....rebound did you say??..REBOUND???....why is Dick Cheney then betting AGAINST the dollar?....He should be betting FOR the dollar.....what do you think we are?.... a bunch of idiots? here's the link
30 - Anand Menon
As for the rest of you who read unsubstantiated Nallish nonsense..... here is some real news for a change Bankers Fear World Economic Meltdown Declining Superpower Act A Stock Market Post-Mortem
31 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Anand,
Normally, I woulds laugh at the stuff Counterpunch.org, particularly when it writes about Israel. Most of their stuff about Israel is knee-jerk pro-Arab bullshit.
But when I read analyses of the economy, I sit up and listen, and pay attention. The bankers and oilmen have been lying to us through their teeth and sniggering at us as we try to figure out ways to do energy conservation and to hold on to a standard of living they are determined to destroy.
Some of our colleagues like to look at things through rose colored glasses.
32 - Clavos
Ruvy,
I find it interesting that you don't believe counterpunch's opinions on Israel, because you know more than they do, and find them to be wrong on those issues, yet you believe them on US economic issues. Why do you think they're so wrong on one topic and so right on the other? It doesn't make sense.
One more point: why would the bankers and oilmen want to screw things up for the little guys? We are their customers; we are where they get their money from; if they render us incapable of buying their oil or renting their money, how will they continue to buid their wealth?
That, too, doesn't make sense, my friend.
In the USA the middle class IS the economy. Henry Ford understood this perfectly, so does any modern captain of industry. WE ARE THE CONSUMERS, Ruvy, without us there is no economy.
33 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Clavos,
One more point: why would the bankers and oilmen want to screw things up for the little guys? We are their customers; we are where they get their money from; if they render us incapable of buying their oil or renting their money, how will they continue to build their wealth?
Clavos,
I realize that you sell boats to rich people. I also realize from the tenor of your comments that a weak dollar has some very good effects on certain parts of your economy.
But I know, from personal acquaintances telling me this, that the World Bank wanted a report in the spring of 1973 telling everybody how a tripling of oil prices would benefit the world's economy. The analyst asked to write the report couldn't and quit, but not before letting friends at the Wall Street Journal know what was up.
Some people get rich by watching out for the best interests of the society around them. The owner of a clothing mill in New England comes to mind. But many get rich by practicing sheer unadulterated greed. There was a tripling of oil prices in 1973, done under the cover of war and an "oil boycott" by OPEC.
The price of oil today is at least three times what it was in 1973. In the seventies, it became a necessity for both parents to work to support a family in the United States, something that had not been true in the generation or two previous. The drying up of credit in the 1970's made the movement of labor to cheaper countries in the American industrial Midwest, something that was likely to happen, a much more painful adjustment than it needed to have been.
It used to was that banks made money off of investments. Today they make money off of fees charged their customers. You can't fart in a bank anymore without getting hit up with a fee. Why is this, Clavos? Could it be that there are no more decent investments to be had? Is it a necessity that oil should cost $60/bbl when it costs $5/bbl or less at the wellhead? Why has every alternative technology to the gasoline engine been bought up and made virtually unavailable to the consumer? Who has been buying up these alternative technologies? Why?
I didn't need Counterpunch.org to ask those questions. But in the piece on why the market is likely to fall, a lot of interesting points are made. And the article made sense. Which is why I sent it out to my "A" list on the internet, along with the following comments.
"You won't normally find me reading Counterpunch.org. - particularly when they report on Israel. A greater pack of fools there has never been.
But this piece on the stock market is a lot more persuasive - particularly because the author is not aiming his fire at Jews at all, but warning of what may happen on the market, and analyzing why the Fed no longer releases M3 data, which would give an accurate picture of the U.S economy. I have started to pay closer attention to the U.S. economy because a joke of a currency, the
New Israeli Shekel, has been rising against the dollar and has recovered all the value it had lost in seven years, since March 2000. This is unprecedented in the history of this country's currencies since the independence of the State, when the Palestine Pound became the Israeli Lira at $4.00 par value in 1948.
I will make my own observations. If the dollar gets flushed down the toilet, do not assume that the euro will not follow.
This Sukkot will be a decisive period of time. Look for a terrible Fall and a miserable Christmas. If you can, buy gold and a troy scale. and if you are Jewish, either come to Israel, or if you are here, do not leave."
34 - David G.
I've also recently read Johnson's book. Socrates did an excellent job summarizing it.
One point that he might have emphasized more is that the CIA term "blowback" refers not just to the unintended consequences of policies, but to consequences of policies of which the American people were kept uninformed. It is this denial of any context by which to understand what is happening that makes finding remedies so difficult.
This is what makes Johnson's analysis, written a year before 9-11, so chilling to read today. It's why today today we still have Americans told to believe that the highjackers did it because "they hate our freedoms," and any real discussion of the attack's origins is forbidden because it would shine light on Israel and U.S. policies in the region.
35 - Dave Nalle
I don't have time for any lengthy responses even to those who deserve one - got to go exploit some workers and pay them in devalued dollars.
But a couple of quickies.
Ruvy said:
The price of oil today is at least three times what it was in 1973
Incorrect. If you adjust for inflation oil today, even at $3 a gallon is slightly less expensive than it was in 1973. But I agree with those who say the price of oil needs to be higher. It needs to hit $5 a gallon in the US to force necessary changes.
It's why today today we still have Americans told to believe that the highjackers did it because "they hate our freedoms,"
A comment you only see coming from the left as part of a strawman argument designed to paint those on the right or in the administration as simpleminded. But like any canard there IS a nugget of truth, as the relative freedom to behave imorally is certainly something that many Muslims hate. It's not their primary motivation, but it makes it easier to portray westerners as evil and corrupt.
Dave
36 - MBD
"I don't have time for any lengthy responses..."
Looks like David G. stopped Nalle in his tracks...
37 - bliffle
Dave Nalle:
"The dollar has been deliberately deflated as part of an economic strategy which thus far seems to have been pretty successful."
That's funny, since Dave vigorously maintained there was NO devaluation until I pointed out the facts and figures. That was when I thought it useful to pursue refutation of his claims, but soon it was apparent that Dave just invents 'facts' to support his unerringly partisan assertions.
"...deliberatively..."? When did we deliberate that policy, Dave? When did we hear arguments pro and con in the congress? In the newspapers? On TV? In the Blogosphere? When did YOU vote on that issue?
"...successful..."? So who can point to some way that devaluation has helped them?
Well, my friend O can! Back in 2000, flush with Clinton dollars from being booked up at $150/hr. during the 90s, he bought a little villa for 70k Euros in the Loire valley, but only paid $50k US because of the favorable exchange rate. If you wanted to buy a 70k Euro villa today you'd have to pay $100k US Bush dollars. Anyhow, you couldn't buy O's villa because it's gone up a lot in Euro value, too, which is a rather new phenomena in French real estate, abetted in his area by the huge influx of Brits who've discovered that everyone loves workers who show up on time everyday, keep their promises, and assimilate enthusiastically. Loire Valley is quickly becoming known as The Garden Of Britain.
But that opportunity is foreclosed for most people. Even O says he couldn't do it now as consulting fees have dropped to $70/hr with the influx of cheap and submissive engineers living 3 to an apartment.
Anyone else have experience of dollar devaluation helping them?
38 - joe
Hey Dave
Do we wage war on terrorism or on bloated military expenditure?
If a toilet seat is procured for$2500 and hammer for$600 for the military the answer is quite obvious.
39 - joe
Aaman,
Good points made by you in your comment #26.Pax Americana? i would think Pox Americana would be more apt!
40 - joe
biffle,
one of the ugly side of globalization is low wages for white collar workers. The corporations would out source the work to low wage countries and kill jobs at home.And force the workers in Wealthy economies to accept low wages. Good old Marx got it right when he said the capitalist uses the reserve surplus labor to drive wages south.
your story of O is heart rending.
41 - Clavos
@#39:
"...deliberatively..."? When did we deliberate that policy, Dave?
You've misquoted Nalle, Bliffthuselah. Look at your own top line, where you quoted him accurately: "The dollar has been deliberately deflated as part of an economic strategy which thus far seems to have been pretty successful." (emphasis added)
"...successful..."? So who can point to some way that devaluation has helped them?
Any exporter. As the dollar weakens, American exports sell better abroad; this in turn helps the balance of payments.
Workers. As the dollar weakens foreign labor becomes less competitive; job outsourcing decreases.
One area I have direct, personal knowledge in:
American built boats (Hatteras, Sea Ray, e.g., there are dozens of others as well) are selling like hot cakes in Europe and elsewhere; they're built in North Carolina (Hatteras) and Florida and Tennessee (Sea Ray). Sea Ray, incidentally, is the world's (not just the USA's) largest boat builder; when its export sales go up, they are more than just a blip on the radar.
42 - joe
US military intervention is not based on benevolence but protecting US corporate interests.
Have we forgotten the words of Major General Smedley Butler who said,“War is just a racket. A racket best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the very few at the expense of the masses”. When General Butler retired from the army he went on record saying that while a serviceman should defend his country honorably he should never become a 'rackeeter for capitalism.'
And Major General Smedley Butler was not a 'commie nutter'as Clovos and Nalle would put down but a respected member of the US Marine Core.
43 - MBD
Who do you expect me to believe -- a Major General in the US Marine Corps or Clavos and Nalle?
44 - STM
Clavos: if you're around, according to the tracker, delvery of your item has been attempted. Cheers bro
45 - STM
Despite Dave's view that the US isn't an empire, I beg to disagree. It's an empire all right. As another commentator says, it looks, walks and quiacks like a duck. It's undoubtedly about corporate imperialism. Because the US doesn't go planting the Stars and Stripes everywhere it goes is irrelevent. It builds corporate HQs instead, and the profits largely go back to US shareholders.
The flip side of the coin is that in my view, the US empire is stage II of the anglo-empire, and that means the US is largely a benevolent corporate coloniser.
US companies in Australia, for instance, provide millions of jobs. The good they do around the world outweighs the bad.
As usual, we have immediately fallen back to the default position of the loony left here: the US and its allies are bad, and everyone else - including mass murderers - must be right.
I prefer to see it the way it really is: without the US, the world would be in real crisis.
Yes, we know it's not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than some of the alternatives that have been thrown up over the past half century or so.
46 - Zedd
Dave
sed: "They came into the union willingly."
You forget that this land was occupied by Native American nations. They did not come into the union willingly.
Why do you forget this very significant aspect of our very short history.
47 - Zedd
STM
I prefer to see it the way it really is: without the US, the world would be in real crisis.
Without the US someone else would be in its place.
48 - STM
Yes, Zedd, and I'd really hate to think about who that might be ... better the devil you know, especially when, for all its faults, it's not as bad as many others could be.
49 - Dave Nalle
You forget that this land was occupied by Native American nations. They did not come into the union willingly.
Actually, in the areas under discussion the native population had already been previously suppressed by colonists from Spain, so their presence was irrelevant. And as a general rule, unfair though it may seem to some, conquered peoples are not given a fair shake by conquerors. That's the way it goes. I'm still waiting for my reparations from the Sassenach for the suffering of my ancestors back in bonny Scotland.
Why do you forget this very significant aspect of our very short history.
Because it's irrelevant to anyone but those who want to make a bogus issue of it.
I prefer to see it the way it really is: without the US, the world would be in real crisis.
Without the US someone else would be in its place.
And the crisis would be that whoever was in place of the US would likely be a hundred times worse.
Dave
50 - Aaman
And the crisis would be that whoever was in place of the US would likely be a hundred times worse.
Strangely, similar arguments have been used by every totalitarian regime and dictator in history.
51 - Clavos
Stan, me 'at's 'ere; check yer email.
52 - MCH
"Who do you expect me to believe -- a Major General in the US Marine Corps or Clavos and Nalle?"
But MBD...surely Nalle's hundreds-of-thousands of typewritten words should count for something...?
53 - Clavos
Strangely, similar arguments have been used by every totalitarian regime and dictator in history.
That's US alright: "totalitarian and dictatorial."
Life here is so horrible, I can't understand why Americans aren't jumping onto rafts and wending their way to cuba or haiti.
54 - Dave Nalle
I'm going to Cuba for the free healthcare right after I stop in to Haiti for the free burning tire 'necklace'.
It's always good to bring up the good things the US has done in the world, because the outraged response immediately identifies the rabid, irrational America-haters whose minds are completely closed off from reality.
Dave
55 - MBD
Dave’s mantra: If you haven’t got a reasonable or rational response, diddle with the issue, twist it until it changes shape, call it by a different name, throw in some pejoratives and epithets and try to make an attempt at being humorous.
___
Dave says he “identifies the rabid, irrational America-haters whose minds are completely closed off from reality.”
Perhaps many of those Nalle calls the “rabid, irrational America-haters whose minds are completely closed off from reality” are really normal rational folk totally connected with reality who see the US government (i.e., the Washington pols on the take and feathering their own nests) as the problem that keeps the country from being all that it could be.
There’s nothing wrong with the country. The problem lies with the bastards in government who keep the country from being what it should and could be.
“Be all that you can be“… not bad advice. If it was good enough for the Army, why not the pols?
So who is rabid and irrational with a closed mind?
56 - joe
Clavos #53
'Life here is so horrible, I can't understand why Americans aren't jumping onto rafts and wending their way to cuba or haiti.'
I heard the US corporations are destroying jobs in the land of milk and honey and endless opportunities.Cuba may not be a bad idea. May be you could try your hand at ousting Castro.
57 - joe
stm #45
'The flip side of the coin is that in my view, the US empire is stage II of the anglo-empire, and that means the US is largely a benevolent corporate coloniser.It builds corporate HQs instead, and the profits largely go back to US shareholders.'
With profits going to US shareholders and the colonised exploited gee it is business as usual for you guys.
58 - joe
dear Dave,#54
I'm going to Cuba for the free healthcare right after I stop in to Haiti for the free burning tire 'necklace'.
Going to Cuba may not be a bad idea. Health care is quite good there.How is health care in US? Are you truly screwed if you don't have health insurance? What about drug prices are they expensive? I understand that many elderly people cannot afford to take drugs.
will your govt allow elderly Americans to visit Cuba for health chec ups?
59 - Clavos
Going to Cuba may not be a bad idea. Health care is quite good there
Not good enough to keep the people there. On a daily basis, they choose to risk their lives to come HERE.
Wonder why, if it's so bad here?
Could it be.......................it's not???
60 - Dr Dreadful
I'd like to backtrack a bit, to Dave's comment #25:
Since we reduced our interest the place has gone to hell in a handbasket. And our presence there was always a moderating and protecting one.
That's exactly the kind of thing we British kept saying to ourselves about India and Africa... right up until we slunk back into Southampton with our tails between our legs.
And what was that entity called again? Ah, yes - the British Empire.
Quack. Quack.
61 - Lumpy
Joe what you miss in your little marxgasm about corporate exploiters is that where US businesses go they inevitably bring prosperity, typically paying double the prevailing wage and creating opportunities to create lots of new local businesses.
62 - STM
"Be all that you can be"...
Ah yes, Quantum Potes Tantum Aude.
63 - STM
Lumpy wrote: "Joe what you miss in your little marxgasm".
Yes, Joe, consider yourself smacked on the wrist for being a naughty boy. Marxist-style socialism has been consigned to the dustbin of history.
Better to fight for the rights of workers and the lower paid within a capitalist system reined in by legislation that takes these things away from the whims of employers and works at accord. I'm all for that, particularly if it means raising living standards all round. In fact, that's ALL I'm for.
And you miss the point of my argument: I'm arguing that the US is an empire, albeit a reasonably benevolent one compared to what you could have (Nazism, Stalinism, Sharia law and Castro's Cuba are great examples).
64 - Dave Nalle
I'm actually open to the idea that the US is a sort of empire - though not like those which have gone before. Our expanded economic sphere of influence, where we colonize by sending businesses to other countries and growing capitalism there, has many characteristics of an empire, but mostly it's much more positive and has few of the negatives. The Iraq War, of course, does not fit in at all with this model of economic empire.
Dave
65 - MBD
#47... "Without the US someone else would be in its place."
Trade, yes. Aggression, no. Subjugation, no.
When has any people accepted subjugation?
66 - STM
Dave, there's really no difference at all. It's a bit more than just expanding a sphere of influence. It's the new imperialism, is all. But living in a country that was once under the British sphere of influence and is now under the American, I don't have a problem with it at all.
I could think of worse things, seriously, and you know my politics on most things is way to the left of yours and even of most "liberals" in the US. But prosperity seems a better alternative to me than some of the other alternatives.
Just the like they are in the US, people are also knocking down the door to get in here, so there must be something in it. I don't hold with the views ofthe unthinking, loony left who just take the default position that it's all bad.
It ain't, even though it could be better.
67 - Clavos
Well said, Surfer Dude.
Except I don't buy your proclamations of how lefty you are, mate. Your comments and posts on BC don't read all that extreme.
Sorry!
68 - STM
Ah, because I support systems of government that stand up to bullies and murderers and allow people freedom of choice - even when they're quite to the right, like the US - doesn't mean I ain't left.
I am old-style left though: a believer in unions and workers' rights, and a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. And there's a big difference between that and idiots mouthing socialist platitudes they've read about in books.
69 - Dave Nalle
What's left in Australia may not seem so left here in the US.
I know I believe in unions and workers rights and a fair day's pay for a fair day's work (as determined by the open labor marketplace) and even collectives and coops and all that good socialist stuff.
I just don't believe unions should be able to operate autonomously against the best interests of their members without any member oversight, and I don't believe unions ought to be able to shut non-unionized workers out of jobs.
I've got a feeling that in Australia the unions have not been allowed to become the abusive and power-grabbing monsters they are here in the US.
Dave
70 - STM
"I've got a feeling that in Australia the unions have not been allowed to become the abusive and power-grabbing monsters they are here in the US."
I think they have more power in some ways, but governments have set up mandatory abritration processes so that due process must be followed.
What's resulted has been a set of workplace laws thrashed out in the courts over a period of 100 years or so that have given workers the best set of workplace rights and conditions in the world, and the overall highest standard of living among blue-collar workers anywhere - across the board.
However, it has been offset with increased productivity guarntees in many industries, which is really where it should.
I know many American workers who come here are quite shocked at the rights they have in the workplace because of all the above, so I would say the two systems are very, very different.
Howard is doing his best to dismantle them in one fell swoop, but now faces the wrath of the people for doing so. Bad misjudgement on his part, most of us think.
71 - Dave Nalle
Stan, are you familiar with how unions work in America?
The idea of unions is a great one, but the way they are implemented here is a disgrace - worse than any failing from our government.
They take enormous dues from members and then give the members virtually no say in how the union is run, leaving that in the hands of a small elite group which is essentially hereditary.
They'll sell out their members at every opportunity and don't give a damn about forcing employers out of business if it helps consolidate their power. They even discourage government from regulating industry because they want the opportunity to use issues like workplace safety as a bargaining tool.
Dave
72 - Lumpy
Not to mention gouging the hell out of consumers by inflating labor prices unreasonably.
73 - bliffle
I think there are only about 10 million union members in the US, and it's been a long time since they did anything that demonstrated power. Back in the 40s, 50s and 60s there used to be regular strikes and demands. Remember John L. Lewis? All over the news demanding more pay for miners.
When is the last time anyone had a big strike?
I think the unions exert very little influence in the US economy.
74 - bliffle
#45 " May 7, 2007 @ 22:03PM " STM
...
"The flip side of the coin is that in my view, the US empire is stage II of the anglo-empire, and that means the US is largely a benevolent corporate coloniser."
"... without the US, the world would be in real crisis."
True. Which makes it all the sadder that Bush is throwing away longterm USA world leadership over these stupid projects of his, which will fail anyhow.
75 - joe
Dear Lumpy,#61
Ah yes...the old refrain making the world safe for Standard oil..Have you heard of sweat shops in Mexico where workers are exploited by bloated US Corporations? or Bangaladesh, Vietnam?
If you guys are not careful your empire may be consigned the dustbin of irrevelence.
Your corpogasm was most amusing...And guess why Marx is still popular in Wall Street? He understood the shitheads perfectly