Unless the U.S. acts, and acts quickly, to strengthen our allies in Latin America economically, Chávez will engulf them all.
On March 1, Colombian armed forces carried out an attack on a FARC (Colombian Revolutionary Armed Forces) camp just over the Colombian border, inside Ecuador.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Dave Nalle
So, come on Dave, give it a shot. Show us how Greg Palast is a "bought and sold communist propagandist with no legitimacy whatsoever."
Cindy, I refer you back to your own comments about "propaganda promoted by known liars". That would describe Palast's body of work. With people like Palast and Juan Cole who have a large body of published work to refer to, all you have to do is go through it and read the articles to know what agenda they are promoting and whose interests it serves.
Palast is more a propagandist than a liar, but he has been caught in a few lies, including a series of interesting exposes on DailyKos of all places.
I'll give Palast this, thought, despite his desire to blame everything in the world on Rovian conspiracies, he has been outspoken in his opposition to the 9/11 Truthers.
But the main point on Palast is his legitimacy as an 'investigative reporter', and given his constant bias and clear politically motivated subjectivity, he cannot be taken seriously as a journalist. Like other propagandists he fails the basic test of objectivity, because he gathers facts to support his opinions rather than letting his opinions be formed based on fact.
Dave
27 - Cindy D
Dave,
That article has an interesting blog attached to it. Here are the words of an apparently right-wing blogger in regard to the article:
StevenInBrooklynNY said...
I am a little skeptical of the authenticity of this. It would also be in the Colombian government's interest to fabricate such a paragraph. Any chance of some followup in this regard?
In a later post he says:
StevenInBrooklynNY said...
Just saying that there are lots of paths of disinformation that could call this "find" into question, and better to be cognizant of that now than later.
He continues on to deride both Chavez and Obama.
But, I have to admire him. He is saying basically the same thing I am.
So, we have it from the mouth of a non-shill.
There is intelligent life on the right.
28 - Clavos
Especially damning of Palast's credibility, IMO, is the exposé presented at the DailyKos, which is everything such journalism should be (and Palast is not):
Thorough.
Impartial.
Documented.
Authoritative.
Unimpeachable.
29 - Clavos
Cindy,
As I said previously, the Interpol report of its investigation into the authenticity of the documents is due out shortly (next week, in fact).
Whether or not the "gringos" mentioned in the various stories about the alleged meeting were actually associated with the Obama campaign is actually immaterial; Obama himself has said publicly he will not approve the Colombian Trade Agreement, nor will he support other trade agreements, including those, like NAFTA, which are already in force.
Unfortunately, both he and Hillary are too much in thrall to US trade unions, who typically, are looking at the trade issue only from their own limited (and short term) perspective; ignoring the fact that such trade pacts can and do result in increased trade (and therefore jobs) for all signatories.
30 - Dave Nalle
Note that the CIA already spend substantial time going over the Colombian documents and found them to be legitimate, and the CIA is known for not being terribly sympathetic to the Bush administration, so they wouldn't be just following the party line here.
As for Palast, further reading on his caging lists story brings up all sorts of evidence which suggests that he took a basically unsubstantiated accusation with virtually no evidence and attempted to blow it up into a scandal and then got defensive and accusatorial when called on it.
Dave
31 - Cindy D
Dave,
Palast discredited that drational DailyKos diary two days after it was written:
Excerpt:
There’s two kinds of illiterates in this world: those who can’t read, for whom I’m entirely sympathetic " and those who CAN read but WON’T, for whom I have no sympathy whatsoever.
Drat is of the latter. He (she/them/it?) has mounted a full-scale assault on the seven-year-long effort of my BBC and Guardian team investigating systematic suppression of the minority vote by the Republican Party and our latest revelation: ‘caging voters.’ His “evidence” is 100% limited to snippets of my conversations on talk radio or phone interviews, second-hand reports on websites and some musings of one of my good researchers, Zach Roberts, posted to this site.
Nowhere does he suggest he’s bothered reading the one hundred-page description of the attack on voters, including caging, in the new edition of Armed Madhouse. Shame that. Law professor Robert F. Kennedy Jr., using the book as a source, verified by his own corroborative work, found the matter therein convincing enough to call for putting Rove’s right hand man, Tim Griffin, “in prison, not in office.”
Picking up a book won’t hurt you, Mr. Drat, at least until Patriot Act IV goes into effect...
As far as the claim that Palast lied about the McKinney quote. The quotes in the article you cited, themselves, support Greg Palast's contention that McKinney never made the statement she was said to have made.
There is a vast difference in the quotes cited and the quote that Palast said was nonexistant. There is no quote in which McKinney said this:
"...Ms. McKinney’s suggestion this year that President Bush might have known about the Sept. 11 attacks but did nothing so his supporters could make money in a war." (Printed by the NYT, Lynette Clemetson)
Are you suggesting that because McKinney had the audacity to suggest that we deserve an investigation, that such a comment is tantamount to saying what the New York Times reporter printed?
Ms. McKinney's position was clear in her news brief--where she never makes any such suggestion that George Bush knew anything. But, she does clearly call for an investigation. And as citizens, we don't have the right to such an investigation? We don't have the right to question our leaders?
A country that desires to crush people for responsibly questioning their leaders, now that sounds more like the type of communism you associate Palast with.
32 - Cindy D
Dave,
"As for Palast, further reading on his caging lists story..."
What further reading? "Further reading..." How does that document anything?
"...all sorts of evidence...?" Who presented this evidence, where did they get it from?
Rush Limbaugh says, "all sorts of things" are true, so does George W. In fact, I know a lot of people who are dumb as posts who say a lot of things.
"...he took a basically unsubstantiated accusation with virtually no evidence and attempted to blow it up into a scandal and then got defensive and accusatorial when called on it."
Called on it by whom?
Or is this an adequate reply:
Well, after tons and tons of reading I came up with a thorough, impartial, documented, authoritative, and unimpeachable amount of evidence, that Greg Palast is great and all the stuff you are saying is absolutely, unequivicably, and very very wrong.
So there!
33 - Cindy D
Well, you see, I have a different view of Pallast, and it goes like this:
He is an excellent investigative journalist, in light of the fact that he actually investigates stories. Unlike the vast majority of the bought and paid for propagandizing media, where the main qualification for becoming a reporter seems to be having the ability to rip a page from the AP wire and put it into your own words.
"...he gathers facts to support his opinions rather than letting his opinions be formed based on fact."
Um Dave, if the facts supported my opinion, um, wouldn't that make me perhaps, smart?
34 - Lumpy
Cindy selective presentation of cherrypicked facts is a basic tool of the propagandist.
35 - Ruvy
Cindy,
The bottom line here is that there is a shitload of evidence that Chavez is out to ditch Colombia, possibly Panama, and possibly weaken your country in other ways. Given that he wants to be a real pal of Ahmadinejad, and given that Ahmadinejad is a cat's paw for Putin, there is a real threat from Central Asia and Eastern Europe aimed directly at your country, whether you like it or not.
And that is the point, my dear lady. The threats exist whether you like them or not. It makes no difference what George W. Bush thinks or says - this has to do with Hugo (yo soy el nuevo Hitler) Chavez and his actions.
36 - Pablo
I am still waiting for Davey's references to Palast being a communist. I recall about 6 weeks ago in another post of mine in reference to Mr Palast's excellent writing, Davey at that time called him a socialist! I guess Dave has a bit of problem understanding the difference.
So how about it Davey? As you did not (as you NEVER do preface your remarks about Mr. Palast by saying it was your OPINION, how about some references buddy?
Or do you just prefer your standard sort of character assassination to those that you do not agree with?
Mr. Palast not only showed conclusively how Choice Point Inc. in collaboration with Jebbie and that stalwart patriot, the lovely Katherine Harris disenfranchised over 40,000 voters mostly of african hertiage, hence democrats, but he also has shown how the war in Iraq was staged to cut off the supply of oil for the purposes of price gouging.
There is a reason I call you a shill Davey, and it is because although you pretend to side on the cause of liberty, you are almost invariably on the side of oppression. I loved your citation of the Daily Kos, that is the biggest CIA front going currently on the left. But hey Dave we all know how much you just adore the CIA and all there attendant dirty work don't we?
37 - Cindy D
Lumpy,
That one has an opinion which one uses facts to support, in no way implies that one engages in selective presentation of cherry-picked facts. Otherwise, no one would be able to make any kind of argument that supports his or her opinion without being a propagandist. In fact, our criminal system is based on having suspicions (opinions) about people that are investigated by other people to determine what the facts are.
I'll make a few comments to clarify. Because I think it's just a difference in semantics that we are talking about.
I live in a country, where I the vast print, radio and television media has to bow to corporate and government approval. Where station after station and article after article spews the same information over and over ad infinitum. Where there is a side of the story that is often or always excluded. Where important questions aren't asked by mainstream media. Where "certain" stories aren't pursued.
How would unearthing factual evidence in a legitimate investigation make someone a cherry-picking propagandist, simply because the facts bear out an opinion that there is more to the story than what we are being told in the mainstream media?
So, basically, in the sense Dave means it, I don't really think that Palast intentionally supports what he believes with some facts while ignoring other facts. I do, however, think he presents many facts the rest of our media ignore.
I am just a mischievous person, who likes to explore semantic meaning.
38 - Lu.mpy
LOL. This kind of stuff is why those few who even read Pablo's coments only do it for the humor value:
How can u not enjoy that special kind of pinheaded raving? It's like chimpanzees strying to paint like Reubens. Delicious.
39 - Pablo
Lumpy!
Your back! Oh how I have missed your wisdom.
Here is a lil hint for ya Lumpy my man. Try this new search engine technology. It is called GOOGLE!
Go to http://www.google.com, another hint for ya Lumpy, you can even leave out the http and shit.
The type in these words Lumpy. "The daily kos and Cia".
Go ahead, I know its a new technology and your nervous, but go ahead and try it Lump. God forbid that you just might learn somethin, instead of your usual un-informed smug self.
Ignorance is bliss aint it Lump?
40 - Pablo
Dave?
References to Mr. Palast? Or are you going to at the very least say that YOUR opinion of him is that he is a commy socialist, hehehe.
I thought you were big on references Davey. What happened?
41 - Pablo
Oh and Davey just cuz someone like Palast investigates republican cronyism, doesnt make them a commie, or a socialist. Even the fact that I disagree with him on 9/11 issues, I can still respect the man and his very good journalism.
You on the other hand, throw out labels like there is no tomorrow, because if you did not you would be left with actually having to debate, which quite frankly is not your forte. Snobby? Oh yes. Self-righteous? You bet! Informed, sure if your main source of reading material is "Foreign Affairs" magazine!
Liberty? Hardly. Opinionated? Not Dave, cuz he is the end all and be all of current affairs, after all his mom was in the agency!
If you ever bother to actually do your homework Davey you will find that both Communism and Socialism were Wall Street creations, as to keep the poor huddled massed even more ignorant than they were to start with.
You are about as libertarian as Orin Hatch, who wonder of wonders is also in your favorite group the CFR.
42 - Zedd
Clavos,
My response is SO.
This man has indigenous blood. This is the land and region of his people. Why should he not want to play a major role in it. Why should he want the US to have a more significant role? Why is his desire a bad thing? It's his part of the world.
What is the fear? Is it that he will take over the entire hemisphere and bring or enemies to our borders. Or is it that he isn't impressed with Europeans and European culture? Is it that he is proud of his efforts and isn't apologetic about his success? Is it because he dares view himself as equal to Europeans? What is it?
What exactly is it that you have a problem with?
Bush and crew were jerk-some, you knew it and the world knew it. However when Chavez pointed it out, people acted as if he had spat on the Bible. Bush called several nations evil but when Chavez said (eloquently if I may add), that he could still smell the sulphur in the halls of the United Nations, people like yourself were aghast. Why? Do you REALLY believe in equality? Do you really believe in each soul on this planet having the same say? Then where is the problem?
43 - Clavos
What exactly is it that you have a problem with?
It might be better if you read the article before commenting; as I clearly state therein, Chávez is meddling in another sovereign nation's affairs, and the government of that nation doesn't want him to. When Bush does that (as in Iraq), I don't see you defending him as you do Chávez; could that have something to do with the fact that Bush is a white man?
Do you REALLY believe in equality? Do you really believe in each soul on this planet having the same say?
No and no. I am an elitist, like Obama.
44 - Cindy D
Random musing.
Sorry Clav, this has nothing to do with your article. But I need an answer to a long-pondered question.
M.A.S.H. the TV show is IMO the best sitcom ever created. I am 100% on track with its political statement. So, what I am wondering is, how is that M.A.S.H. is one of the all-time most successful and best sitcoms of all time AND one that corresponds to my own views, yet at the same time my views are amongst the most unpopular of all time?
How can it be that a show that espouses an ideology that I believe in can be popular with the average person?
45 - Cindy D
On a more Clavosian note: My interest has been piqued, for some time, on what your definition of elitist is Clav.
46 - Dan Miller
Zedd,
I spent quite a lot of time in Venezuela, just after Chavez took over and a couple of years later. At first, I thought he was an OK guy who just might do some good for the country.
Boy, was I wrong. The economy has gone down the tubes, along with civil liberties and just about everything else of importance. So has Chavez's popularity with just about everybody. Corruption is even more rampant than previously. The various industries which Chavez nationalized no longer have people with the technical expertise to run them, and the diminishing oil money which had been pouring in has gone to promoting Chavez's place on the international stage rather than to helping the poor -- whom he claims to love. With the dramatic increases in the price of oil, that is a major feat, even for Chavez. Here is a blog maintained by a Venezuelan in a relatively remote area and, unlike most of the press and other news media, Chavez has not got around to nationalizing, closing or censoring it.
Please do spend an hour or so reading recent articles there. I think it is just possible that you might change your opinion.
Dan
47 - Clavos
Cindy,
So, what I am wondering is, how is that M.A.S.H. is one of the all-time most successful and best sitcoms of all time AND one that corresponds to my own views, yet at the same time my views are amongst the most unpopular of all time?
IMO: Humor, and a hell of a good script.
Start presenting your views in clever, snappy repartee, with some human interest thrown in and see what happens. A lot of TV is like that: The West Wing appealed to me, even though I rarely agreed with their political viewpoints, but the show was exceptionally well written, with interesting characters, crisp dialogue and intriguing plotlines.
I'm a BIG fan of Aaron Sorkin's shows; West Wing was preceded by Sports Night and followed by Studio 60 on Sunset Strip, all of which I loved, as I did A Few Good Men, (play AND movie). I haven't seen Charlie Wilson's War yet.
The point is, I loved all of these because they were good theatre, even though I disagree with almost all of Sorkin's views.
48 - Cindy D
So, basically, what you are saying is, people might disagree with the politics espoused in M.A.S.H. yet love it because it was well done?
Okay. That would explain it.
And all this time I am giving all this credit to people to understand not only M.A.S.H. but scores of films that are popular with people yet seem to correspond with a very left ideology, and here they are just thinking...wow good actor and well done cinemetography and things like that?
49 - Clavos
Cindy,
Elitist
I thought about this for a while, wrote and deleted at least three definitions; finally went to good ol' Wikipedia, wherein I found the following:
Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite " a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes " are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.
And this:
Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society - elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.
Which, taken together, pretty much sum it up for me.
In today's vernacular:
Smart people rule!
Or should...
50 - Cindy D
I will have to address the elitist definition another day. But, at least we agree on the idea that smart people should rule or the wish that smart people did.
51 - Clavos
and here they are just thinking...wow good actor and well done cinemetography and things like that?
...while disagreeing with the viewpoints expressed? Yes, some are, while some are diggin' the whole package,
...and some just like the jokes...
See "Elitist."
52 - Dave Nalle
The West Wing appealed to me, even though I rarely agreed with their political viewpoints, but the show was exceptionally well written, with interesting characters, crisp dialogue and intriguing plotlines.
One of the key things about WW was that when they presented conservatives they treated them like human beings, not like abstracts of evil with a label slapped on them. In the real world the left is usually not that empathetic and just stereotypes instead of making any attempt to see things from the other point of view.
Dave
53 - Pablo
I am still patiently waiting for those references to Palast Davey. Won't you indulge me?
54 - Pablo
Clavos,
Nothing about wisdom compassion or humanity in all those virtues buddy? How bout them apples, surprise surprise.
As to your definition:
"with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience"
How does that apply to YOU Clavy?
Now I will give you my definition of elites.
Since the dawn of time, man (humans) has been eating man. Whether we call the predator the strong man, the will of the people, the benign dictator, the royals, the church, the state, or the elites, it has always been the same. Man exploiting man. However its not even dog eat dog, its the other way around.
You may call them elites Clavy, but the truth is and the inference is that they are the "ruling elite". I am afraid under that truer definiton Clavy you dont rate any semblance of being an elite, as you are just another peon like the rest of us schmucks. The only difference is that you view your owners as your benevlolent friends, and dare I say comrades.
The elites have made sure that they have the leverage particularly economically, through their various agents, such as the FED, the CFR, Chatham House, Wackenhut, and many others to not only dominate the rest of humanity, but for all intents and purposes subjugate them.
Whether it is the black nobility of Europe, the Pilgrim's society, dare I say the Rothschilds and their agents, the Harriman family, or even old Jacob Schiff, (whos grandson married Al Gore's daughter recently), the game has always been the same. More for them (more meaning more money power license and freedom)and less for the rest of us.
The elites have no compunction about murder, torture, maiming, extorting or blackmail, in fact my own research suggests that they revel in it. They remain in power for one reason, and one reason only. Most people particularly in this country have no idea about their own enslavement. They think that to be a slave means tied up, or whipped into work. Not only do most people in this country have absolutely no idea what slavery means they have even less idea what freedom means. This is the true coinspiracy of the elites.
It does not surprise me however Clavos that you wish to identify with them. I should tell you though the club starts at around the 5 billion dollar mark. You just might be a bit short buddy.
But hey theres no reason not to be inspired now is there?
Oh and in case you don't know where they congregate, I will give you a few clues. Try Sonoma County California 2nd week in july. It is a good ole boys party, with the emphasis on (boys)and who knows they just might give you a pass. If not there try the world economic forum at Davos, same guys different show! I would suggest the Bilderbergs, however their location each year is a very closely held secret, and as I am only a peon not privy to it. I would have recommended the CFR to ya Clavy, but your world history comes up a bit short.
So there you have it, Pablo's definition of elites. I dont hate em, I pity em, that does not mean however that I am not engaged in a struggle with them, as I dont care for murder, torture, maiming or blackmail. Just my two sense worth Clavy.
55 - Franco
Clavos, good article, and nice to see you up there again.
I was catching some news quotes of Chavez right after the release of this info………
On Columbia
"I issue an alert to the continent, the Venezuelan people, the armed forces over the Colombian government's intention to provoke a war against us."
On Bolivia
“Venezuela will not tolerate a movement for secession in Bolivia's eastern lowland states."
On Germany
Chavez almost told German Chancellor Angela Merkel to go to hell, but stopped short of insulting the woman leader on Mother's Day. Instead he called her “a political descendant of Adolf Hitler and German fascism.
"She is from the German right, the same that supported Hitler, that supported fascism, that's the Chancellor of Germany today."
Well, uncle Hugo has had a hell of a couple of days. I could not quite get his real reason for hammering on Angele Merkel until I read this.
Aljazeera Net Report: Farc set up cells abroad
The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia has established undercover cells abroad in 17 countries, a Spanish newspaper says, quoting from documents found on the computer of Raul Reyes. The report said that Farc was the central force behind a leftist group called the Bolivian Continental Co-ordinator, which had branches in 17 countries including Germany.
As Dan pointed out about Chavez's waning popularity and economic problems as such, that he is less of a threat then what he was. I can understand the logic, but there is also another side to it.
Chavez could actually be more dangerous now then before because of his waning popularity. I mean, dose Chavez strike you as the kind of guy who would step aside for anyone, even if the people wanted it? President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe is going to be easier to unseat by the people then Chavez.
If Chavez feels his time is running out with the people, he could start a war, declare a state of emergency and who is going to stop or replace him then?
Now this last thing about FARC and Obama bugs me because it is too hard to nail down. It is not going to go away if it has any resonalbe suspistions at all.
I ran a google news search (FARC+Obama) and it kicked out Results 1 - 10 of about 1,880,000 for FARC+Obama. (0.27 seconds).
56 - Ruvy
Pablo,
You gotta learn how to spell, boychick. It's "two cents" worth (as in not a whole lot) - not two sense worth. That's nonsense.
The elites have no compunction about murder, torture, maiming, extorting or blackmail, in fact my own research suggests that they revel in it. They remain in power for one reason, and one reason only. Most people particularly in this country have no idea about their own enslavement. They think that to be a slave means tied up, or whipped into work. Not only do most people in this country have absolutely no idea what slavery means they have even less idea what freedom means. This is the true coinspiracy of the elites.
I tend to agree.
That is the precise reason I support Obama; I don't like the scumbag. But from my point of view here in Jewboyland, the only time Israelis will turn against the American and European puppets who rule them is if they can see that the assholes are actually enemies; then like the Satmar Hassidim used to do in Williamsburg, they'll scream "goyim!!!" at top of their voices and run the bastards (along with the American and European soldiers supporting them) out of the country.
But the CFR hasn't gotten the whole planet sewn up yet. They don't own China and they don't own Russia - which is the point of paying attention to this article. Both China and Russia support Chavez to some degree or another.
And Putin is not some namby pamby politician who counts votes. He studies The Way and counts dead bodies. And he is now behind the Shia mahdi master, Ahmadinejad, a good friend of Hugo (yo soy Hitler) Chavez.
57 - Franco
#54 "Pablo
Nothing about wisdom compassion or humanity in all those virtues buddy? How bout them apples Clavos, surprise surprise.
Mouth
Open
Foot
Um....Pablo, do you even read the stuff you criticize.
Here is what Clavos said: whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.
Constructive to a society as a whole includes compassion or humanity, as the absents of these would be destructive. I can understand that your deductive reasoning my be a bit challenged, but how did you miss the word “wisdom”?.
58 - Zedd
Clavos,
Governments support the regimes that they so choose. They always have. We have done it since our conception.
Again I say SO.
Giving money to governments and groups that you support is not criminal. Trumping up charges and attacking a nation yourself, overthrowing the government and manipulating who is in power and how they rule, all with the plan of changing their culture to become like yours is wrong. Let's hope that you can appreciate the difference.
We are giving money to Israel today.
Again SO on the article?
59 - Clavos
Zedd,
Once more:
READ THE FREAKIN' ARTICLE!!
And if you HAVE read it, learn to comprehend what you read!!
Sheesh!!
Chávez is not giving money to a GOVERNMENT; he's giving it to TERRORIST GUERILLAS, who are trying to overthrow ANOTHER COUNTRY'S government.
He's also giving them arms and allowing them to hide in his territory to avoid retaliation by their own government.
Your comparison of the US giving Israel money is ludicrous and a complete non sequitur.
60 - Zedd
Clavos,
There is a difference between being a member of the elite and elitism.
Elitism suggests that one believes that they should be given power because they believe they are elite.
Being an elite means that you excel above most in a number of areas.
These are two very different things.
Also, the notion of the elite is becoming out dated in that we now know more about intellect, privilege, class, and such things.
In a time when radio and television were not present, our President would be considered a member of the elite. We now see him to be in the privileged class and not an elite.
We also live at a time when spin plays such a role to where reality is distorted. Is Romney an elite or a guy who had he been born under normal circumstances been a good looking mid level manager? Also, because we have humanized those in power, the notion of elites has faded. There are few renaissance men. Even Jefferson is now flawed.
Comming from a generation where nerds rule, the notion of elitism is rather murky. Practical thinkers are more valued.
61 - Clavos
Oh, and BTW, Zedd,
overthrowing the government and manipulating who is in power and how they rule, all with the plan of changing their culture to become like yours is wrong.
That is EXACTLY what Chávez is doing in Colombia.
62 - Zedd
Clavos
I read the article, hence:
"Giving money to governments and groups...."
Now why is Israel a bad example. I would think that the Palestinians would beg to differ with you.
Also, you know full well that we support "liberation armies" all over the globe. Also do people even use the word 'guerrilla" to describe fighters. I think that was 70's spin. It only works on people like Arch.
I will end by saying SO regarding Venezuela's actions. Looks like they are behaving like all powerful nations do to me. You being a Latino or Hispanic or whichever terms you chose to use, should be proud.
63 - Ruvy
Ridiculous non-sequiturs is about all you can expect from Zedd, Clavos. Truly a shame, because she is not a stupid woman.
64 - Clavos
Coulda fooled me, Ruve...
65 - Zedd
Clavos,
"That is EXACTLY what Chávez is doing in Colombia."
That is not what Venezuela is doing.
If North Korea had invaded Columbia and tried to make that South American country into an Asian nation, THEN it would be the same thing.
As things stand, the Iraq debacle and giving money to fighters at the border of Columbia is not the same. Oh and lets just settle this by saying, you know that.
66 - Ruvy
Zedd,
You still haven't figured out imperial control from real aid, have you, Zedd. American credit chits to Israel are designed to keep Israel dependent on American arms - AND WEAK!!! Venezuelan aid to the FARC is designed to strengthen it AND WEAKEN COLOMBIA!!
Boy, you're slow.
I would think that the Palestinians would beg to differ with you.
Are you talking about all the resident Arabs the CIA is training as sharpshooters? Are you talking about all the money the Americans keep giving to Abbas? Which resident rebel Arabs would complain about American "aid"? Especially aid that they are getting?
Explain this in more detail, while you're busy kissing Arab ass.
67 - Zedd
Snickers....
Both of you think you are qualified to judge who is intelligent and who isn't.
Funny stuff... men.
68 - Clavos
Oh and lets just settle this by saying, you know that.
Only thing I know for sure in this exchange, Zedd, is that you have no idea what you're talking about.
And you're not even a Swede; where on Earth did you get such a thick head?
Let me try once more:
Colombia (NOT Columbia) is a sovereign nation.
Venezuela is a sovereign nation, and is one of Colombia's neighbors.
They have both been nations for centuries.
Colombia has INTERNAL (Colombian) terrorist guerrillas who have been trying to overthrow the LEGAL government of Colombia for decades. The situation is an INTERNAL one, involving ONLY Colombians fighting each other; nobody else's business for any reason.
Chavez (a Venezuelan) is aiding the COLOMBIAN terrorist guerrillas (not a "70s construct", BTW. They are so named [by experts-not me] for the type of fighters they are and the warfare they practice), in their attempt to overthrow THE COLOMBIAN (not his Venezuelan) government. In other words, he is INTERFERING in Colombia's INTERNAL affairs; an action prohibited by all international law, and universally sanctioned worldwide.
Here's an analogy even my 9 year old niece understands: She is not allowed to go into her brother's room without his permission and start messing with his stuff. Likewise, Chavez is not allowed to mess with Uribe's stuff.
Capisce?
69 - Pablo
Ruvy,
I know perfectly well how to spell sir. The two sense is a pun, particularly for Clavy.
Franco,
Yeah I missed the wisdom comment by Clavy, so go ahead and throw the baby out with the bathwater, that the modus operandi around here anyways.
I still stick to the thrust of my arguments about elites, either it went over your head, or you dont care to comment on who rules the planet. Either way, thanks for the constructive criticism Franco.
70 - Pablo
Ruvy,
Boychick? Huh?
71 - Pablo
Oh and Franco?
That last sentence in the above comment directed at you is called sarcasm.
72 - Ruvy
Boychick is Yiddish and is NOT a combination of boy+chick. It comes from putting Russian endings on words so common in my father's native tongue, and is a term of affection.
Not a booty call....
73 - Pablo
Ruvy,
Thanks for the explanation :)
74 - Zedd
Clavos,
I finally understand your nickname. You have to drill a nail into that thick mush on top of your head in order to get anything through. Well let me get my hammer....
To start, I got "it" the first time around hence the SO.
Now... Let me see if I can help you.
Bottom line, it happens all of the time. Adjust.
All bush fighters are funded by someone. CAPISCE? I know shocking, right? Sometimes it's Russia, sometimes is America and other times it's..... drum role, Venezuela. I know huge isn't it. Try to take it in. Let it sink in and allow the revelation to change your life. It's a big mean and nasty world. I know, there, there.
Oh and please don't advise the children.
75 - Zedd
Ruvy,
It is you that is slow. The purpose of funding any country is to reach your own personal goals. Whether it is Israel or Colombia.
That is a given. Nothing to iluminate. That should have been assumed from the start.