4. Open Up a Path to Citizenship. For those already in the country we need to provide a way for those who would be desirable additions to the population to apply for citizenship. This program would offer opportunities without offering amnesty. As he said:
It is neither wise, nor realistic to round up millions of people, many with deep roots in the United States, and send them across the border. There is a rational middle ground between granting an automatic path to citizenship for every illegal immigrant, and a program of mass deportation. That middle ground recognizes there are differences between an illegal immigrant who crossed the border recently, and someone who has worked here for many years, and has a home, a family, and an otherwise clean record.
In other words, keep the good, hard-working and honest illegals and send the bad ones back. Charge them a "meaningful penalty for breaking the law" - something like the $2000 fine proposed in the McCain bill. Make them learn English and make sure they have long-term employment. Then let them apply for citizenship with slightly less priority than those applying through the regular process. In this section he stressed clearly the idea that appropriate punishment will satisfy the law and should open the path to rehabilitation, a fundamental principle of our legal system.
There was a fifth point, but it was basically a generalized restatement of the fourth point, followed by some patriotic babble about the contributions of immigrants to the country. A valid issue for consideration, but not really part of the plan for immigration.
As to the plan itself, it's almost exactly what they voted on in the Senate and couldn't quite pass. It is very much what Bush calls the "Rational Middle" approach to immigration (btw, guess who owns the domain name rationalmiddle.com?). It includes both enforcement to address the nation's safety and the issues of illegality, but also the opportunity for Mexican workers to come here on either a permanent or temporary basis to better themselves and provide the labor we need.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - troll
did I miss the part about enforcing existing laws that prohibit hiring illegal immigrants - ?
troll
2 - Michael J. West
It is a plan which is comprehensive, fair and practical.
Moreover, it was damn near the only plan he could possibly endorse without either skirting the issue entirely, or going militaristic and severely damaging relations with Mexico.
I found Bush's plan reasonable. And as you well know, I ain't no fan.
Of course, as I said on that other thread, it's his usual fan club members that are foaming-at-the-mouth mad at him after that speech...
3 - JP
Troll, I think he attempted to address that by trying to make it easier for employers to verify status. I'm with you, without that, the rest of this is just talk.
Dave, I have to go with you on this one--I don't agree that Bush is "at heart" (or usually) a rational moderate, but I am comfortable with his position on this. That said, I want to see more than lip service paid to the employer side. It's going to take some regulation, which of course goes counter to Republican tendencies.
4 - Dave Nalle
Ironically, the employer side of this is the one part I don't agree with in the Bush plan. The problem with it is that the mechanism for this improved enforcement and tracking of workers is an ID system which will inevitably apply to all Americans, not just immigrants, and I don't see any benefit in high-tech tracking of the activities and identities and monetary transactions of day to day citizens. It's an undesirable intrusion on our lives and a REAL violation of every one of our rights far more serious than the silly NSA data gathering everyone is up in arms about.
But JP, Bush is and has always been a moderate. You've mistaken his manipulation of the far right for actually sharing their beliefs.
Dave
5 - Michael J. West
The problem with it is that the mechanism for this improved enforcement and tracking of workers is an ID system which will inevitably apply to all Americans, not just immigrants
Suppose they made it such that these IDs would only be available at U.S. embassies on foreign soil?
6 - Dave Nalle
Michael, they're already planning to make them required for all citizens. This plan pre-exists the immigration bill.
The first step is the National ID standardization, but immigration is going to be used as a justification for moving from that into the RealID/Smartcard system which keeps electronic track of the use of the ID and monitors your activities for a central database.
Dave
7 - Michael J. West
I knew there was something alarming about the "biometric ID" thing. Problems with immigration do not a police state justify.
8 - JP
I see your point--but I'm at least happy he's willing to acknowledge the employer side of the equation. The solution could be a better one--maybe I should've said I'm comfortable with his "approach" since he's trying to address all aspects of the issue.
9 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"I knew there was something alarming about the "biometric ID" thing. Problems with immigration do not a police state justify."
Mike, the biometric ID is on its way along with the police state. It will come with or without congressional approval. It is already under active consideration in Europe and a simple version of it is alrady used on pets.
10 - Dave Nalle
If we follow the patten currently being tried out with pets it will go beyond even my fears, as they are having tracking chips implanted in them which are part of a technology which allows monitoring of all sorts of information about movements and activities in great detail.
The day the government plans to put microchips in its citizens is the day I resort to force of arms for political change.
Dave
11 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"The day the government plans to put microchips in its citizens is the day I resort to force of arms for political change."
Then start storing food and water, Dave, lots of it, and start oiling your guns.
12 - Dave Nalle
Already on it, Ruvy. As a matter of principle.
Dave
13 - Michael J. West
You know what this conversation needs? Randy Weaver.
14 - Ben Marbury
We have to be realistic about identification. The issue now is that it is too easy to fake identification. In spite of all of our concerns, we have national ID anyway. You can't do anything in this country without 2 or 3 forms of ID: Driver's license or picture ID, Social Security # and/or credit card. Other than religious belief, there is no real reason to oppose an ID card. If you want to oppose something important, oppose a database that has private information in it related to the ID card.
15 - Dave Nalle
You're right, Michael. Any conversation is improved by the introduction of key words that get out on the search engines like Randy Weaver, Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Dave
16 - Nicholas Stix
President Bush didn't come right out and say it, but what he's offering -- and you're supporting -- is A-M-N-E-S-T-Y.
In other words, he's still selling the same damned snake oil he's been peddling since his first inauguration. He's still dedicated to the abolition of America.
17 - Joey
Why a $2000 fine? Why not a fine commenserate with the administrative costs associated with that particular process. It would release tax dollars.
I wouldn't go so far as making it tax deductable however, I have seen stranger things in government.
18 - Lumpy
Nickysicky, if u got fined $2000 for your dog pooping in a neighbor's yard would u feel like you got amnesty or got punished?
A lot of genuine crimes are punished by fines and it's the right kind of punishment for a nonviolent crime.
Anyone who calls a hefty fine on a poor working person amnesty likely has other issues with mexicans. And yes, based on your other posts I am calling u a racist nicky.
19 - Shark
Shark flips thru the TV channels looking for the NBA playoffs, lands on a shifty-looking, beady-eyed snake oil salesman/Apolcalyptic Right-Wing --Possibly Pederast-- Preacher yakkin' some major bullshit and tryin' to sell a pretty placebo to a nation of paranoid xenophobic illiterate morons:
"...Ma fellow 'mericuns. I don't wanna talk about Bin Laden or Iraq or the Gazillion dollar deficit or gas prices or the polluted, diabetic, asthmatic $8 an hour futures of your kids. Nope. Look, over there! Buncha tough guys in camo lined up every 520 yards across the Mexican desert! Yee-haw!"
Then...
...Shark peeks into his old hangout, (Blogcritics, aka "Dave's Delusional Dungeon") --- and notes Davey Nalle still sporting a short little literary mini-skirt and waving red-white-and-blue digital pom-poms (courtesy of Halliburton, $666 per pom, thankyouverymuch...) while paying delusional, half-assed, half-hearted homage to our retarded, facist, brain-dead motard of a President via his standard bloated blather -- which, in almost every case -- can be thought of as continuous figurative, garrulous blow-job given to Prez Bush in the name of Patriotism and Libertarian Ideals.
Nalle has the unenviable task of supporting the most insane, facist, law-breaking, civil-liberties ignoring President in American history -- while at the same time, trying to maintain the posture of an entreprenurial Libertarian with a capital L.
6000 national guard on the border.
Mission Accomplished.
heh.
PS: Dave, I'd like to point out that SHARK AND THE DIXIE CHICKS WERE RIGHT ON IRAQ. hehehehehe.
PPS: How many Americans killed today over there?
xxoo
S
20 - Richard Brodie
Lumpdumpy: the fine is not amnesty, stupid. Amnesty is getting rewarded with citizenship for bypassing all the very costly and time-cosuming bureaucratic hassles that people trying to do it legally are willing to submit themselves to.
Among other qualifications which these illegal border jumpers get to have waived, are those considerations of skill level by which legal immigrants from every other country are required to be screened - as well as considerations having to do with the sheer NUMBER of people who can be accomodated from any one country.
Giving them legal status as guest workers is perfectly fine. But they don't have to be rewarded with a citizenship for which they would not even qualify if they were to try and come in through the legal immigration channels.
They should be given the oppportunity to work here for a specified period of time, after which they must return to their home countries. And if they are found trying to come back in, prior to the expiriation of some specified waiting period that must elapse between successive visits, then they will be banned for life.
21 - DrPat
NicStix is right, this plan includes a modified amnesty. It has lots of enticing gingerbread attached, but I fear it is the same kind of witch's cottage that Reagan okayed in the 80s: promises of enforcement and a plan to forgive lawbreaking as a path to citizenship.
Only if we actually GET the enforcement (and not the watered-down, largely-ignored nod in its direction as happened with the Reagan-era program) will the "substantial fines" and other requirements for amnesty make any sense at all.
22 - Bliffle
Nothing will work in the short run until we deport thousands and even millions of illegals. Nothing will work in the long run until the corrupt government in Mexico City is overthrown.
23 - Dave Nalle
Nice to see you back, Shark. Your verbal frothing is, as always, inimitable.
But if Herr Nickstix and Comrade Bliffle agree that we need to purge the country of the illegals then I'm pretty confident I'm on the right side in pursuing a moderate solution along with Pres. Bush.
Dave
24 - Heloise
50,000,000 illegals living in the border states alone? I live in Texas and I can tell you that the public schools here are not only expanded with two and three new wings, but also with portables.
If you just took the numbers from the schools alone in the border states you will find that we could have up to 50 million illegals in this country. THey are lying about the numbers people. We have tens of millions of Latinos in this country. Remember they are uncounted except in the schools...but counting or asking about status in this country will get you a coup de grace on any job.
In San Antonio alone there are entire school districts that are nothing but Mexicans. Here in North Texas the whites have fled the schools and even many blacks are moving to better schools. That leaves entire schools here that are all Mexican and most of them are from Illegal alien families. We've got a million plus school age children alone that have illegal status here in Texas.
They are bringing in drugs with their huge families. If they were coming here just for jobs why the drug trafficing?
Bush's approval drops as the true number of illegal aliens and its impact become clearer. I've been saying what Biffle said from day one. We don't need biometrics we need to send some millions of those fuckers back to where they came from. Including those from Asian countries that are here illegally.
Heloise
25 - Bliffle
"...belief that President Bush is at heart a rational moderate..."
Well, that's what I thought pre-2000, but subsequent policies proved me wrong: budget busting, egregious invasions, etc. And overall a generally lackadaisical approach towards his job, which DOES deserve ones full attention.
Hey, at least I recognize when I made a bad decision: I'm not going to defend it to the death.