From Bush's news conference:
I'm aware of the Amnesty International report, and it's absurd. It's an absurd allegation.
The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world. When there's accusations made about certain actions by our people, they're fully investigated in a transparent way.
It's just an absurd allegation.
In terms of, you know, the detainees, we've had thousands of people detained. We've investigated every single complaint against the detainees.
It seemed like to me they based some of their decisions on the word of and the allegations by people that were held in detention, people who hate America, people that have been trained in some instances to disassemble, that means not tell the truth.
BUSH: And so it was an absurd report. It just is.
Disassemble means 'to take apart'. I suppose the word he meant was 'dissemble,' but for crying out loud, can't he get some speechwriters that can write things that he can read?
Just saying that they've had 'thousands of people' detained doesn't answer the Amnesty International charges. In fact it's part of what Amnesty International is using in their charges - that the US has had thousands of people detained without giving them any formal status! And we're happy to know that they've examined all the complaints against the detainees, but what the report is about is complaints by the detainees.
And we wouldn't have to go on the word of these 'people who hate America' if there had been independent observers in Gitmo who did not presumably hate America. There's normally a presence of lawyers there now, but that was not the case for some time.
It's obvious that this is just an absurd charge, of course, just absurd! Why? It just is.
A lovely example of an intelligent dialogue with the American people.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - John Bambenek
They do have official status, they are being held according to the laws of war which every country would do the same. In fact, holding prisoners of war until hostilities are over was a major advancement in warfare... it provides for the incentive to not kill everyone on the battlefield. Once Al Qaeda surrenders, those people can go home. But as long as the fighting goes on, they stay put. That's the laws of war and no nation on this planet would do anything different.
2 - gonzo marx
John sez...
*they are being held according to the laws of war which every country would do the same. In fact, holding prisoners of war until hostilities are over was a major advancement in warfare*
fascinating take on it, if you are correct and the "detainees" are indeed prisoners of War then they should be held as such, and under the Geneva Conventions we would have every right to do so...in accordance with the Conventions.
unfortunately, they are NOT being held and treated in accordance with the Conventions, and the Administration's reasoning behind this (written in large part by the current Attorney General)is that they are "civilian combatants" an das such fall outside the rules of the Conventions...this allows for them to be treated in a much more cavalier fashion.
just last month a Military Tribunal sent over 200 of these "detainees" home after their approximately 2 years of captivity...time held without a lawyer , or the ability for outside Agencies to observe the conditions...
and those 200 plus were told they had no cause to be held, and were sent back to Afghanistan.
a bit different view than what you were stating...and i think you will find it closer to factual accuracy
objects in mirror may be closer than they appear
Excelsior!
3 - Thad Anderson
I guess Amnesty International is "old human rights" the way Western Europe is "old Europe."
Since neocons started caring about human rights internationally . . . which happened some time after the Iraq-Al Qaeda link evidence and WMD evidence failed to materialize . . . they're they experts, and not groups that have put decades of work into the issue.
4 - Dave Nalle
Amnesty international are a pack of idiots. They rate the US low on human rights in general because we have the death penalty. Take a look at their rankings sometime and how they derive them. They're slanted against western developed countries in some truly bizarre ways.
Not that they don't do some good work, but they are very poor at figuring out what's a real human rights violation and what isn't when dealing with some countries.
Dave
5 - Bob
I find it interesting that there is such great concern for the suffering of the Gitmo prisoners, when at its worst their suffering isn't even a fraction of the horrors inflicted on people in our regular prison system. I think it is that because they are the enemies of America, in some peoples eyes this elevates them to some kind of noble status as freedom fighters.
6 - Bob
To Gonzo Marx:
1 necissary requirement for any person to be considered a legitimate combatant & therefore covered by the Geneva Convention, is that you have to wear a clearly distinguishable uniform identifying you as a soldier. Fight in civilian clothes you have no rights, period.
During the Battle of the Bulge , German commando's dressed in American uniforms to commit sabatoge behind our lines. When they were caught many were summarily executed (no trial, no lawer), & no one ever challenged the legality of this.
7 - Nancy
Anyone who thinks the US is a free land, or a true democracy, has their head in the sand. We have been neither free, nor a democracy, for many years. We THINK we are, but we're not: our elections are as subject to fraud & corruption by big business and various special interests as anywhere else in the world, and our administration(s) can certainly hold their own for manipulation, corruption, lying, and perverting the constitution and bill of rights with just about any other on the face of this earth - they just try to hide it more than the rest by wrapping it all in spin, patriotism, and religion, and spoon-feeding their pap to a gullible and unthinking public which (in general) deserves no better due to intellectual laziness, willful stupidity, and lassez-faire apathy, which is what our government counts on instead of active militaristic repression. Why bother with bullets when advertising and publicity can accomplish the same ends with less obviousness? And when caught indulging in this gross manipulation, the only defence required is scorn, denial, and ignoring the issues.
I find it troubling and deeply depressing that on the revelation of the identity of "Deep Throat", 30 years after Watergate, we are still saddled with an administration and a president even more powercrazed, arrogant, secretive, and corrupt than ever. Would that some new patriotic Deepthroat would arise to expose and depose this monstrous regime as well.
8 - Eric Olsen
I would like to see a detainee disassemble - that would be impressive
9 - Nancy
Yah, it would, indeed. Actually, seeing anybody disassemble would be interesting.
10 - Eric Olsen
if they disassembled then reassembled elsewhere, it would be like the Star Trek "teleporter," or was that "transporter"?
11 - Nancy
'Transporter'. Now, having disassembled, would the subject then still exist in order to be able to reassemble, or would disassembling render existance moot?
12 - Eric Olsen
thanks, I'm a bit Trek-rusty - I believe it's a temporary state of discombobulation which presupposes the arrow of time, resulting in recombobulation barring technical snafu
13 - Nancy
Well, even Dr. 'Bones' didn't like those things. But they did the disassembling; I thought we were talking about individuals who self-disassembled?
14 - Eric Olsen
good point
15 - Dave Nalle
>>I find it troubling and deeply depressing that on the revelation of the identity of "Deep Throat", 30 years after Watergate, we are still saddled with an administration and a president even more powercrazed, arrogant, secretive, and corrupt than ever. Would that some new patriotic Deepthroat would arise to expose and depose this monstrous regime as well.<<
Nancy, you must not be old enough to remember Watergate, because if you think things this administration has done are even in the same league with the Nixon administration then you're abyssmally ignorant of that era.
Dave
16 - MDE
When you talk nonsense then you can be misunderestimated and keep your defiability about what you meant that was quoted out of context.
17 - JR
Nancy, you must not be old enough to remember Watergate, because if you think things this administration has done are even in the same league with the Nixon administration then you're abyssmally ignorant of that era.
Is John Dean likewise abyssmally ignorant of that era?
In the three decades since Watergate, this is the first potential scandal I have seen that could make Watergate pale by comparison.
18 - Dave Nalle
John Dean is a despicable political opportunist, and I might note that he was one of the point men for the public deception campaign associated with Watergate.
JR, do you remember any of the crimes associated with Watergate? Not questionable policy decisions, actual felonies committed by special operatives assigned the job of criminally disrupting the US political process?
Does Bush have a 'black bag' team? Are his agents breaking into offices, planting bugs, blackmailing people, stealing records, threatening reprisals against members of congress and the like?
Give me a break.
Dave
19 - gonzo marx
Bob..
i am well Aware of the definitions, and if you read what i commented closely you will find that i made the same point, and quoted the legal counsel as Source for the decision.
my cooment was to factually correct John B. mis-statement essentially laying out the same Facts as you did.
of course, i then added some more Facts to it in order to enlighten and to try and give a larger View of the circumstances.
hope that helps explain...
a sfor the comparison of this present Administration to Nixon's...i tend to agree with John Dean on this one..Nixon was an amateur by comparison.
Excelsior!
20 - Eric Olsen
it is time for the ass-kissing of terrorists to end: the motto of Gitmo should be, "We will disassemble your ass"
21 - Eric Olsen
okay, I was kidding
22 - JR
Does Bush have a 'black bag' team? Are his agents breaking into offices, planting bugs, blackmailing people, stealing records, threatening reprisals against members of congress and the like?
I don't know.
23 - MDE
re: "Does Bush have a 'black bag' team? Are his agents breaking into offices, planting bugs, blackmailing people, stealing records, threatening reprisals against members of congress and the like?"
Good questions.
He is surrounded by folks willing to orchestrate public deception campaigns - 'for our own good and protection', we understand.
Mark
24 - Dave Nalle
MDE, every president has people around him whose job is to spin the truth and present things the way the administration wants them. That's not criminal. Nixon had people he ordered to go out and commit felonies for him. That's a whole different world.
Dave
25 - Mark Saleski
and in the case of this administration, the presentation of the 'gilded facts' was known as stovepiping.