Taking out Iraq has been on the neoconservative agenda since at least the early-to-mid-1990s. When they got into W's administration they got their chance. But there may be consequences.
Now denials are coming thicker and faster. Strong ties to and support of Al Qaeda? What "ties" - we just don't know. Nuclear materials from Niger? "They" said that. Ties to 9/11? Who said ties to 9/11? WMDs? Who said WMDs? He had programs that would lead to WMDs. And, of course: "for bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue - weapons of mass destruction..."
In Friday's Wall Street Journal [requires a subscription for access] a neoconservative luminary is quoted as saying: "...some of us may have been too glib about an 'easy liberation'." [Joshua Muravchik, author of "The Imperative of American Leadership" 1996.] Glib about life and death?
Then on Saturday, I watched Andrew Sullivan on "The Chris Matthews Show" [the show transcript hasn't been posted yet but should be up in the next few days] saying that Bush never claimed that the threat was imminent - he said it could become imminent. Unless my memory is totally shot, somebody said it.
You can find out why the invasion actually happened, in Bob Woodward's "Bush At War." The book is clearly a love note, not a hatchet job. In spite of that, it reveals some of the Bush Administration thinking and actions that led to the Invasion of Iraq. I haven't heard of anyone in the Administration disputing statements like:
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - mike
William Lind has suggested that all neoconservatives be rounded up and sent to Baghdad to clean up the mess they made, with instructions not to come back until we send the last plane. And then we should forget to send that last plane.
SEND A NEOCONSERVATIVE TO BAGHDAD. It'll make a nice bumper sticker. Order yours today.
2 - Chris Arabia
Hmm. Your unsupported assertion: neocons were hoping for a chance to remove a brutal tyrant from power. Those bastards.
"somebody said it"
Relatively self-impeaching, I'm afraid.
The passages you cite also support inferences that long term planning was at work. For example, a tough go in Afghanistan might have required another action elsewhere because withdrawing at the first sign of adversity would project the kind of weakness that provoked 9/11 (as would have a non-response in Afghanistan as well).
Also, Islamo-fascism is not going to disappear overnight, and failing to plan beyond Afghanistan would have criminally irresponsible. the lackadaisacal approach is not an option.
If you pay my way and my hydration, incidentally, I'll happily go to Iraq and lend what help I can.
Send a neoconservative to Baghdad? So Mike must have supported the love it or leave it crowd.
3 - Brian Flemming
It is surprising how many pro-warriors claimed to be motivated by humanitarian concern for Iraqis (and, retroactively, many have decided this was in fact their primary concern), yet so few are jumping on a plane for Baghdad to pitch in, or selling their houses to donate the money to relief organizations, or advocating for a tax hike to pay for the rebuilding. Or anything.
They sure were excited about that kick-ass military operation in March, though. I'm sure many pro-warriors bought new widescreen TVs so they could watch the war in all its glory, so I suppose we should give them credit for that sacrifice. Those things cost a lot of money.
A war led by chickenhawks, cheered by chickenhawks.
Max Cleland is right.
4 - Brian Flemming
Chris,
I didn't see your comment (2) when I posted mine (3).
You say...
Do you have a proposed budget? Because I think it might be possible to raise the cash if you're really serious. I'll start spreading the word.
How much are you willing to spend yourself?
5 - Chris Arabia
Brian, true or false: anyone who disagrees with Brian Flemming on certain issues to be named by Brian Flemming is by definition a bad person and/or a stupid person and is deserving of personal attacks and name-calling.
True or false: failure to address an argument is indicative of a strong position if Brian Flemming is the one failing to address the argument.
True or false: opinion pieces can be cited as fact if Brian Flemming is doing the citing.
Stop the hate, Brian. And I don't mean by posting a shrill denial of hate or posting more personal and/or bigoted attacks. Such hostility to strangers is decidedly unbecoming.
6 - Brian Flemming
Chris,
False.
False.
False.
There's 3 questions of yours directly answered. Now, how about the ones I asked? In case you missed it, here is my comment #4 in its entirety:
Chris,
I didn't see your comment (2) when I posted mine (3).
You say...
Do you have a proposed budget? Because I think it might be possible to raise the cash if you're really serious. I'll start spreading the word.
How much are you willing to spend yourself?
Or did you not really mean what you said?
Waiting...
7 - jp
Chris Arabia,
I'll chip in $500 to send you to Baghdad. Anyone else want to contribute to this noble cause ?
8 - Chris Arabia
1) I'll have to do some research. It's not like going to Kalamazoo.
2) I will not spend my own $. The opportunity cost is a sufficient loss.
3) It would be quite a story--ANTIWAR PEOPLE EXPORT PROWAR PERSON TO HELP IN IRAQ.
more later...
9 - John Isbell
I'm delighted to hear that Chris Arabia has volunteered to go to Iraq and help out if we pay for him. He can join my cousin Mark in Special Forces, though I'm not sure he has a 10-month-old son. Atrios at Eschaton has got to work raising the money, he has about 15,000 readers daily. I expect you'll want to start a funding drive too. Best of luck!
10 - daniel
I'll chip in.
11 - daniel
By the way: how long does it take to be shipped to Iraq after signing up at www.goarmy.com ? I'd rather Chris look like a soldier than a tourist.
I'll still chip in though.
12 - Eric Olsen
This whole "you can't comment on something unless you are willing to do it yourself" is disingenuous, changing the subject, attention diverting, and among the least appealing of the anti-war ploys: you can't formulate policy for the good of the country, the people as a whole, the entire freaking world, unless you have either engaged in the activity required to carry out this policy yourself, or are willing to drop everything and carry out the duty yourself.
This has nothing to do with the merits of the policy, nothing to do with the integrity of the ppolicy formulator or advocate, and is petulant nonsense.
If everyone who supports the war were to go to Iraq, say about 200 million Americans, the Iraqis would have to come here.
13 - Chris Arabia
Lest confusion reign:
"If you pay my way and my hydration, incidentally, I'll happily go to Iraq and lend what help I can."
That's what I wrote.
No substitutions, Daniel. By the way, is
no@spam.com
your real e-mail address?
14 - Chris Arabia
By the way, your implication that anyone who is not a solider is a tourist is pretty insulting to humanitarian workers, etc.
15 - Chris Arabia
Same question to jp--is
jp@jp.com
your real e-mail address?
16 - Hal Pawluk
Sorry, Chris, but I asserted what I asserted, not what you asserted I asserted.
As for Afghanistan, there's no need for inferences when the facts are plain. The Administration clearly stated they did not want to get bogged down there and looked for an out. Conveniently, some in the group had been trying to get the US to attack Iraq for at least a decade.
They took the out and abandoned Afghanistan, although few in this country seem to have noticed. The 8-10,000 troops and the "Afghan government" are almost exclusively restricted to Kabul, while Afghanistan itself now produces 75% of the world's opium.
> Also, Islamo-fascism is not going to disappear overnight...
The same could be said about neos, but that's called a "non-sequitur" argument and I'm not playing.
> Send a neoconservative to Baghdad?
Let me edit the bumper sticker:
SEND A NEO TO NAJAF!
Doesn't that sing?
17 - daniel
Chris,
That's fine; I wasn't wondering if we could have the government pay instead. I'll check prices at Orbitz later.
As for the address, no, it is not my real e-mail address. I get enough spam as it is. Remove the '-removethis-' parts: dsilva-removethis-@ccs.-removethis-.neu.edu
18 - daniel
Chris,
I didn't say they _are_ tourists. I said they _look_ more like tourists than like soldiers.
19 - Chris Arabia
Thank you for the publicity, Brian.
Don't forget to tell people to visit my blog, mcfrank.blogspot.com
And thanks for the relentless personal insults. I know it's your best substitution for actual argument.
Why don't you worry about holding up your end of the bargain, or can't you refrain from spewing hatred long enough to do so?
Hal: Send a Neo to Najaf? It's not bad. But you did assert without support that the "neos" were bursting to hit Iraq for years. Reread your first sentence.
20 - mike
The issue here is that prowars gloat about how patriotic they are, how we must all come together, how antiwars are undermining the country, blah blah blah, but over and over again, THEY DON'T WALK THEIR TALK.
Several neoconservatives said before the war they were going to Baghdad to help out after the war and no doubt gloat again over their great victory. But now that the situation has become dire, and their help is really needed, they are nowhere to be seen. IF THINGS ARE SLOWLY GETTING BETTER LIKE THEY SAY, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, WHY AREN'T THEY OVER THERE LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD BE?!!!
21 - Monkey
I'm in for $25 bucks if you actually do it.
Monkey
22 - Chris Arabia
Well, I'm at the Red Cross site as we speak on another screen.
I am discouraged by some of the phony e-mailers (not Dan) and by Brian's uncontrolled viciousness, but I am going to find out what it will cost, and then see if, um, people cough up.
(one of Brian's pals calls me an "um, person." Perish the thought that an actual human disagree with them)
I, for one, never said anything about going to Iraq, until now...
CA
23 - Hal Pawluk
> But you did assert without support that the
> "neos" were bursting to hit Iraq for years.
I had mentioned that I'd be posting supporting citations on my site but deleted the parenthetical comment for Blogcritics.
So while I haven't put that piece together yet, here's one background link for you to start with
http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm
That's a link to a 1996 paper that Richard Perle was the lead writer on (others included James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Douglas Feith, Robert Loewenberg and David Wurmser, well known in the neo community) for The Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies in Jerusalem.
The link takes you to a page with the speech and speaker's notes where you'll find "... This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq ... ".
The paper was a briefing for Netanyahu, who presented it as a speech to the US Congress a few days later.
They turned him down.
24 - Chris Arabia
Fair enough.
I would only add to that that neos were not the only ones thinking of regime change in Iraq.
Regardless, thank you for answering my question.
25 - johnx
> "If you pay my way and my hydration, incidentally,
> I'll happily go to Iraq and lend what help I can." - Chris Arabia.
Is this "Chris Arabia" guy honest or lying?
I think is is lying.
Can he live by his word, or is his word worthless?
I think his word is worthless.
I don't think he is able to live up to his own words.
I will donate $ to sending him to Iraq.
I dont think Chris should get a drop more water than a ground soldier.