Overnight, Bolivia has taken center stage in the struggle between Capitalism and Socialism in Latin America.
In a forceful move against the socialist centrist policies of Bolivia’s president, Evo Morales, residents of Santa Cruz province, the country’s wealthiest, heeded the call of their Governor, Rubén Costas and last night seized control of Viru Viru airport, Bolivia’s busiest.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Lapdog
Take everything Nalle says with heaps of salt.
Paleoamericans were bloodthirsty savages who preyed upon the peaceful inhabitants of Turtle Island until they were defeated in numerous battles. Some where eventually civilized and became useful members of society.
They may have been 'native' to China which means they came from somewhere other than China. Technically they're referred to as 'Them Guys' but they have a habit of calling themselves Chinese.
27 - RJ
Evo Morales is a joke. Seriously.
He wears funny shirts and pisses off his neighbors (like Brazil, which is quasi-socialist) with his idiotic economic policies that nationalize everything. He's backed and funded by Hugo Chavez Frias, so he's little more than a commie puppet of a foreign nation. A large portion of his constituents hate him. He used to have a website (since deleted) that denounced "gringos" (that would be White people from the United States) for not understanding the "spiritual essence" of the coca plant, like the "indigenous peoples" of his country do.
Or, put another way, he's a racist, pro-drug communist who hates America. So, naturally, he's an ally of Hugo Chavez Frias.
Of course moonraven likes him. Was there ever any doubt? ;-)
28 - moonraven
Moonraven is the only poster on this site who KNOWS Evo Morales.
The rest of you are just blowing out your ass.
Especially the phoney folks born in Mexico and Bolivia--who cannot even write Spanish.
Ringers galore here on BC.
The beat goes on--of buttinsky rednecks who can't even clean the toilet but want to tell other countries and other cultures how to do the deal.
Fatuousity and stupidity--the twin poles of INternet exchange.
29 - Cindy D
"After the Spaniards defeated the Incas in the 16th century, Bolivia's predominantly Indian population was reduced to slavery. The remoteness of the Andes helped protect the Bolivian Indians from the European diseases that decimated other South American Indians. But the existence of a large indigenous group forced to live under the thumb of their colonizers created a stratified society of haves and have-nots that continues to this day. Income inequality between the largely impoverished Indians who make up two-thirds of the country and the light-skinned, European elite remains vast."
Morales has the legitimate backing of his people--not hard to understand considering history. It's simply not convenient to some ways of thinking that the majority would want something other than capitalism.
30 - Dave Nalle
I find Morales much more genuine and appealing than I find Chavez. I think Morales really does have the best intentions, and in interviews he seems quite genuine. The problem is that he has an inherently much poorer and more underdeveloped country than Chavez, and as Tuca pointed out, it looks like he's turning into a Chavez puppet, which ultimately won't be good for the region or for Bolivia.
dave
31 - Zedd
Clavos,
While I understand that this is simply a news report, I would like to find out what your perspective is on Morales and his goals to Nationalize this country.
It would seem that you are conflicted and are not jumping to your typical Capitalism is good always stance, in this situation.
VIVA Springboks!!!
Boks rule the world!!!!!
32 - moonraven
Nalle [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] is pathologically searching for puppets under every presidential chair in Latin America.
A country's executive doesn't have to be a puppet to be affiliated with an ideology or another leader.
There are, for example, two rightwing presidents in Latin America who are affiliated with the Bush Gang: Uribe in Colombia and Calderon in Mexico.
One of Calderon's priorities has been re-establishing a good relationship with Venezuela, as Chavez withdrew his ambassador to Mexico a couple of years back (Fox the longest tongue in the world retaliated by withdrawing his) and said Mexico could cool its heels until it elected a government that knew how to behave itself in the international sector.
That priority has been partially met, as Venezuela sent a new ambassador--former Foreign Minister Ray Chaderton--a couple of weeks ago and accepted a new one from Mexico.
Colombia's president Uribe made a formal request 10 days ago to join Bank of the South--which Chavez organized and which other left-leaning countries have jumped on the bandwagon of and which will officially start operations NOv. 3rd.
Uribe also asked Chavez to mediate the hostage and prisoner exchange with the FARC.
What does this mean?
In simple terms, it means that Chavez has consolidated a critical mass of power in Latin America (and the planet), and that folks who have been affiliated with the Washington Consensus are hedging their bets, trying to make sure that their bread is going to have butter on it.
That Chavez has given more help and more money to Latin America than the US obviously has something to do with the shift.
But to say that presidents of Latin American countries are not capable of thinking and deciding independently smacks of colonialism and racism at its most rancid.
Not to mention that it is condescending as hell.
Bush is a puppet of Dick Cheney.
Evo Morales in not a puppet of Chavez. Evo has a long history of playing hardball in the union movement. He won the presidential election the second time he ran.
If you comic strip "historians" knew anything about Latin America--past OR present, you would not be quite so quick to make fools out of yourself posting drivel on this site.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
33 - STM
"I didn't make those guys ugly and bald and fat and charmless."
That's absolutely wrong, MR. Only one of 'em's charmless :)
34 - STM
Zedd writes: "VIVA Springboks!!!
Boks rule the world!!!!!"
Hmm. I never thought I'd be celebrating the Boks winning anything.
But when it came down to a choice between the Japies and the Poms, I just couldn't for the life of me go for England and have them join Australia as the only team to win the rugby world cup twice and then have to put up with another four years of pom gloating. The Boks I can live with - they deserved it, and they only gloat for six months.
So there I was, cheering on the other arch-enemy over the main arch-enemy.
Just this once, and in scenes unlikely to be repeated ... I say, good on you, South Africa.
But it was telling that neither team was able to score a try in the final and the whole thing was decided on kicks. If you were watching the game for the first time, it would have been a poor advertisement for "the running game".
I blame the Poms for that, of course.
35 - alessandro
Well, at least Moonraven is explaining some of her, his (its? whatever) positions behind all the nonsensical swearing and insidious inflammatory insults.
I'm serious. Au moins cette fois ci on recoit quelque idees aulieu de la merde. I don't have a French keyboard so no accents/accents circonflex here. Apologies to the French.
Tuca, maybe you're Bolivian and maybe you're not. Maybe you're a white dude from Miami and a huge Dolphins fan (though at 0-7 that's tough I suppose.) Or maybe you're on the Haliburton payroll. Who knows? But I liked your post in #10.
Dave, I live in Quebec. A socialist sometimes quasi-communist state built on a series of nationalist pyramid schemes and corrupt kickbacks - because socialists steal and keep the money. I live under and seen first hand too (though nowhere near the murderous communists) the over rated "ism" of our times that is "socialism."
Hey, it seems to work in Scandinavia...go figure.
It's funny. Many of our politicians have Marxist-Leninist backgrounds or leanings yet many of them own businesses or collect rent from the proletariat.
In theory it's all compassionate niceties, in reality it's just another way of consolidating power into the hands of a few and sweeping problems under the rug. And lord knows dealing with bureaucrats who haven't a clue how business workd is worthy of a film.
It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
36 - Dr Dreadful
What this situation boils down to, it seems to me, is that the inhabitants of Santa Cruz have decided they would rather not be part of Bolivia because they don't like the policies of the country's legitimately elected government.
Whatever your outsider's opinion of Morales is, I don't think this is the kind of attitude to be encouraged.
37 - alessandro
The problem with Latin America - and this is where we can sympathize why socialism resonates there - is that right-wing capitalists and military never considered the well-being of the populace. It went from, for example, Battista to Castro in Cuba. Nice split, eh?
So when the chance came, it was easy to choose socialism in place like Chile where it seems to thrive. I could be wrong of course.
Moonraven, you speak of "genocide" by the Americans to explain the unfortunate fate of Native Americans but is not a fact of history that the Portuguese and Spanish legacy have been far more destructive in South America?
38 - Clavos
Alessandro;
You don't need the keyboard; if you have MSWord, the necessary aigu, circonflex, etc. are on the installation disc and can be uploaded from it;
Voilá: § ù ¨^ à ç è é etc.
39 - moonraven
Doc,
In English it is called sedition. And it is a criminal offense.
The US is channeling a lot of money through the embassy there to the seditious separatist groups in Santa Cruz. They are going after Morales because Chavez is just too tough for them to handle.
Meddling in other's houses, as usual, while their own resembles the Augean stables, with no Hercules in sight to clean the place out.
Aside to alessandro: You will get no sympathy from me. As a member of the Mohawk Nation,
with half of my family being from Quebec, I consider your ilk to be interlopers. Period.
40 - Zedd
Stan, Doc,
I can only put it like this...
We are the champions - my friends
And we kept on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions (pause for affect... shhhhhh, now) - OF THE WORLD!!!
And the crowd roars!!
he he he he
Boks RULE!!
41 - moonraven
Now the pinche canadian wants to minimize genocide by splitting hairs over the number.
The Zionists in Israel have screamed their heads off because 6 million of their folks went up in smoke. And collective guilt and self-interest on the part of the US and Europe has allowed those people to wreak mayhem and murder all over the Middle East.
The Armenian holocaust was 1.5 million. The TUrks refuse to copo to it and the US Congress tries to pass a condemnation of them.
Yet 90 million Native Amercans murdered is what--chopped liver?
Are you fucking nuts?
42 - Zedd
Is that how to spell aigu? I've always wondered. Its an awkward sounding word. Its almost embarrassing to say. Its like a distasteful bodily function has just occured or Like something that Mr. Tudball on the "Carol Burnett Show" would say.
43 - Zedd
MR
I thought that the resolution was ridiculous too. Especially since we are over in Iraq RIGHT NOW for no good reason other than we cant tell those darn Arabs apart, causing the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people.
What an insult to the Native Americans more-so and the African Americans. As we all sing about purple mountains and their majesty and the fruited plains where we murdered them by the millions. As 20 million Africans lay dead in the ocean from the middle passage, we dare condemn Turkey. That is just beyond nervy! Simply no idea that such a resolution is COMPLETELY inappropriate for THIS nation of all nations to make. We wiped out an entire continent for goodness sake!
44 - moonraven
Not for goodness sake, Zedd.
What they did was absolutely evil.
And they are still doing it.
45 - STM
Zedd: "Boks RULE!!"
Yes, Zedd, it's good to see South Africa join Australia as the only countries to have won the world cup twice.
Australia have played in more finals though, and beat South Africa by a couple of points (a Steve Larkham field goal the decider) in the 1999 extra-time semi-final epic where they went on to beat France in the final :)
With England having knocked us out in the quarters this time, I just couldn't have lived had England won it again. So thanks, you Bokke.
46 - Clavos
"What this situation boils down to, it seems to me, is that the inhabitants of Santa Cruz have decided they would rather not be part of Bolivia because they don't like the policies of the country's legitimately elected government."
Some of that may well underlie the present incident, Doc, but it goes beyond the scope of the article.
Insofar as the seizure of the airport by the citizens of the province is concerned, their protest of the usurpation of control and revenues of the airport by the central government is a legitimate grievance, since control of airports (and receipt of revenues therefrom) is normally a local responsibility and prerogative (Miami's is not controlled by the Feds, Heathrow is operated by BAA, not the DfT, etc.)
Governor Costas and his constituents' immediate concern is, of course, control of the airport and its revenue stream, but their larger objection is to what they contend is the unlawful seizure of much of their property and local income by the central government.
I'm trying to shed some light on that (as I tried to in my previous article about Bolivia), in the hope that the world will better note (and heed) what is going on.
47 - moonraven
Utter bullshit.
The government of Bolivia does not have to base their regulation of revenue laws on what is done in other countries.
The governor of the province is an active seditionist and should be slapped in jail.
His operating money from the US government--US TAXPAYERS' money--should be cut off.
And meddling ignorant gringos should find something better to do with their time than writing semiliterate articles about things they know nothing, and care less, about.
Look at the oppressive US government.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
48 - Dr Dreadful
control of airports (and receipt of revenues therefrom) is normally a local responsibility and prerogative (Miami's is not controlled by the Feds, Heathrow is operated by BAA, not the DfT, etc.)
That may be the American model (most airports are operated by the city government in whose jurisdiction they're located), but not necessarily the general one (although having worked in the air industry, I guess you'd know). BAA is a privatized former arm of the Department of Transport. It's independent from central government in name only.
This seems to be a bit more than a civil protest - as MR notes, it bears a lot of the hallmarks of an insurrection. But unless Morales did something illegal or unconstitutional in putting the airport under central government control, there's no justification for that kind of thing just because some better-off Bolivians don't want to share the cake with their fellow citizens.
49 - Clavos
Doc,
You are correct about BAA, of course. Its distance from the central government is not great, but nonetheless the revenues are at least shared (if not their entirety) with the city of London, while Luton gets revenue from TBI for that facility, and Emcor turns over Gatwick revenue to local authorities as well.
One of my responsibilities while working in the industry was negotiation of landing rights in various countries, so yes, I do have some idea of how it works, which is part of the reason I chose to write about this particular dispute.
All of the foregoing is merely illustrative of how most airports worldwide are operated, including those in Bolivia prior to Morales' accession to power (there are, of course, exceptions, especially in totalitarian societies).
I think the citizens of Santa Cruz have a legitimate beef.
50 - Dave Nalle
In English it is called sedition. And it is a criminal offense.
In a free society it's not a criminal offense. Freedom should include the right to criticize the government.
That you think sedition should be a crime says volumes about you and the culture you're part of and the values you hold.
You're a statist, plain and simple, with socialism as your preferred mechanism of oppression.
Dave
51 - Zedd
Stan,
Yeah, to bad for the WANNABIES.
With a team called the Blacks, I would have had to go for them :o) if there was a contest between the two of you.... But there wasn't.
Boks Rule!!
52 - troll
"If two or more persons in any state or territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down or to destroy by force the government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder or delay the execution of any law of the United States or by force to seize, take or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."
53 - Silver Surfer
Zedd, do you think the TMO was correct when he ruled the ball was in touch when Cueto went over after Tait's breakout, and should the ref have given the penalty for South Africa cynically slowing down the ball at the breakdown.
Tait was hauled down on the line, but on the next phase Cueto took the ball at first receiver and dived over.
He could just as easily have ruled a penalty try in that case, and yellow carded one of the South African defenders, which would have changed the nature of the game completely.
What's that you say? What the f.ck am I talking about? No? Didn't think so.
Tee hee
54 - moonraven
Nalle:
Wrong again.
My reference to sedition being a criminal offense was to HERE IN THE US of Assholes. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
55 - moonraven
For those folks here NOT trying to pass themselves off as historians when their idea of hsitory is reading an old newpaper from the 1950s with Terry and the Pirates in it, please be advised that SEDITION came into the US legal lexicon big time with John Adams, was officially disappeared under Jefferson--and came back again with--guess what: THE PATRIOT ACTS.
If you tried to overthrow the US government the way the US-backed oligarchs in Bolivia are trying to overthrow Evo Morales, this is what would happen to you:
YOU WOULD BE DECLARED AN ENEMY COMBATANT, SHIPPED TO GUATANAMO AND HELD WITHOUT HEABEAS CORPUS INDEFINITELY.
JUST THE FACTS, FREEDOM-LOVIN' REDNECKS.
56 - Dave Nalle
MR, you seem not to understand the difference between sedition, which is criticizing the government and conspiracy to overthrow the government, which has been illegal since the Constitution was ratified.
Show me what part of the PATRIOT Act specifically criminalizes sedition. I'm no fan of the act, but will still admit that it doesn't go that far.
Dave
57 - moonraven
Nale: conspiracy to overthrow the government--which is what is happening in Bolivia and which is the same shit the US tried and keeps trying to do in Venezuela is PART of sedition.
I don't have to show you shit. You are the ersatz historian: YOU look it up.
58 - moonraven
Clue to the clueless: Start with the Alien and Sedition Act of John Adams and compare it to the current Patriot Acts.
After that, just keep your mouth shut for awhile.
59 - Dave Nalle
I don''t know why, but I actually went and looked sedition up, and of course, MR is wrong as usual. As a legal definition there is a strict dividing line between seditious speech as addressed in the Sedition Act and the kind of active anti-government conspiracy addressed in the PATRIOT Act. The key dividing line is between disruptive or inflammatory speech and direct anti-government action, which would be considered treason.
Dave
60 - moonraven
Nalle, is there a point you are trying to make?
Nobody is talking about legal definitions, but about BEHAVIOR.
Legal definitions are only applied when someone is CHARGED--and those vary depending on the convenience of the chargER and the set of laws involved (which will differ from country to country).
The behavior in question in Bolivia is the SAME: You can call it treasoon, conspiracy to overthrow the government, treason, instigating magnicide--it's the same behavior no matter what you call it.
And, as my original point indicated--which Nalle tried by his labyrinthine anality to deflect--is that it is CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR and should be treated as such.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
61 - troll
the law that I quoted is US CODE: Title 18,2384. Seditious Conspiracy enacted in the Civil War
62 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
The arguments over sedition are very interesting and all, but I'm just curious. What has transpired in Bolivia since Clavos penned this article?
63 - Lapdog
The last I heard some of the mob that took over the airport were demanding large amounts of cash from international airlines. Some companies complied and some left without picking up passengers.
64 - Clavos
Good question, Ruvy.
Although i've been monitoring international news sources closely since writing the article, there has been nothing for two days now.
The last report I saw was datelined 10/20.
65 - Clavos
Ruvy,
Here's a BBC report dated 10/21, but it doesn't add anything new, just re-hashes the same old info.
Strange there's nothing new in nearly 48 hours....
66 - Clavos
Ruvy,
Correction. The BBC report showed a date of 10/21 on the cover screen, but i see the actual report is dated 10/19. No wonder it read like a re-hash....
67 - STM
Mate, the local residents taking over the airport. That's one of the most bizarre stories I've ever seen. We really are worlds away.
I'm going to get a few mates and take over the local pub (which would be about the only thing you could get anyone motivated enough to take over down here). I want some of the money people are spending in there. All the alcohol tax profits are currently going to the state and federal governments. If I'm going to put up with people walking past my place at 2am singing out of tune and speaking Swahili at the top of their lungs, I want some compo.
Plus, if no bastard comes in, we can drink all the beer ourselves. You can't do that with a plane.
68 - Dave Nalle
I could see this kind of thing happening in the US the way it did in the 60s, especially if local governments go overboard with things like eminent domain seizures. Hell, there are people in Austin who just need a little push to form a human chain to block toll road construction. It might be time for some of the people to shake off their conditioned obedience to the government.
Dave
69 - STM
Actually Dave, blocking toll road construction would be a good thing to do here, and you wouldn't have any problem getting volunteers.
Everytime they build a new bit of freeway here, we have to pay for it through tolls. On a single road I use to get to work, I now have to pay at three different locations (the freeway, the Lane Cove tunnel and the harbour bridge/or harbour tunnel). This is one piece of continuous road, mind you.
If I drop my son home after work, once over the bridge (no toll going north) I have to pay $1.60 to use a 50m off/on ramp (that's right, 50m - if that) that is considered by the NSW Roads and Traffic Authority to be a part of the aforementioned Lane Cove Tunnel - the two things being separated by a stretch of freeway that is actually free depending on where you enter and exit, and has been there since the 1970s.
What a joke. Why do I pay my bloody taxes? And don't get me started on parking cops, red-light cameras and speed cameras. It's nothing but revenue raising. Sydney City Council has now started doing "covert" parking operations, ie wearing plainclothes and booking people (read mums in 4WDs) in school zones, etc.
Since safety is the key issue in school zones, wouldn't they be better off having a parking ranger in uniform as a deterrent? The answer is yes, they would.
The problem, though, is it doesn't raise any money. And in the case of Sydney City Council, and the dozens of other city and suburban councils in the metropolitain area, we are talking revenue raising through parking of hundreds of millions of dollars.
I even got booked recently having a surf at Bondi Beach. I put in enough coin for two hours, but the surf was really good and I forgot about the time. I was three minutes over and got a ticket. I think they just watch and wait.
I remember when the federal government was trying to chop down the Tasmanian wilderness to dam the untouched rivers down there and people chained themselves to trees and bulldozers.
That's what we need all over the western world. A bit of that 60s-70s wild spirit. What's happened to us. We just go along like sheep now. In America and Australia, protesters stopped an insane and unpopular war.
However, that's probably easier than getting the parking cops off our backs.
70 - moonraven
The reason nothing has happened since the events slapped together in clavos' "article" is because--
1) yesterday The Bolivian government accepted the US ambassador's apology:
"The Bolivian government accepted Monday apologies from U.S. ambassador to Bolivia for his remarks on Bolivian President Evo Morales.
"The government accepts the ambassador's apologies. We will continue working in the two countries' relations," Bolivian Foreign Minister David Choquehuanca said, according to news reaching here.
President Morales told the U.N. General Assembly last month that the U.N. headquarters should be moved elsewhere after members of his delegation had problems entering the United States.
In response, U.S. ambassador to Bolivia, Philip Goldberg, said he would not be surprised "if Bolivia would also want to change Disney(land's) headquarters too," triggering a diplomatic spat between the two countries.
Goldberg confirmed to the press that he had sent apologies to the Bolivian government through diplomatic channels.
Choquehuanca described Goldberg's remarks as "racist" and said the U.S. diplomat would not be a "valid interlocutor" for his government until he apologized."
and 2) Chavez has said that he will sit stand around with his arms cross if this US cheerled seditious activity continues.
I doubt very seriously that the US is prepared to see if he is bluffing or not at this point.
71 - moonraven
Sorry--that he will NOT stand around with his arms crossed.
Of course the rubes on this site who do not even know where Venezuela and Bolivia are located on the planet will probably try to tell us that THEY know better, and that the governor of Santa Cruz province is not engaging in seditious activity and extorsion via a vis the airline companies--that some big bird that said he was a condor told them that THEY know everything about Latin America despite their never having visited the region and that they should SEGUIR CHINGANDO.
Right.
72 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I'm sorry, Marthe. A lot of what you are saying does not appear to have a relationship with the events reported by Clavos.
I realize that there may have been a foo-fo-raw over stupid remarks made by an American ambassador (something common where the Americans think they can walk all over a country), and also that American money may be backing the seizure of the airport by provincial leaders in Bolivia. That would come as no surprise at all, seeing the shit they pull in my neck of the woods.
But what you report above appears to have nothing to do with a provincial airport or who controls it.
Do you have a link that could tie the events you cite to the seizure of the airport? Even one in Spanish. I can still comprehend a fair amount of written Spanish in a newspaper, though Ladino is frankly easier....
73 - moonraven
Sorry--that he will NOT stand around with his arms crossed.
Of course the rubes on this site who do not even know where Venezuela and Bolivia are located on the planet will probably try to tell us that THEY know better, and that the governor of Santa Cruz province is not engaging in seditious activity and extorsion via a vis the airline companies--that some big bird that said he was a condor told them that THEY know everything about Latin America despite their never having visited the region and that they should SEGUIR CHINGANDO.
HOWEVER, the seditionists DID create two TERRORIST BOMB ATTACK incidents on Monday AWAY from the airport:
1) At the Venezuelan Consulate
2) At the house of one of the volunteer Cuban doctors
The choise of targets makes it clear that it is the US behind the seditious activity in Santa Cruz (besides the US has given millions to those guys through USAID and the NED). YOUR tax dollars at work sponsoring TERRORISM.
Foreign Minister Nicolas Madura made a statement reinforcing the position of Venezuela in regard to supporting Bolivia's government.
Video for Spanish speakers only here.
74 - moonraven
And from the telesur site
75 - Dave Nalle
That's what we need all over the western world. A bit of that 60s-70s wild spirit. What's happened to us. We just go along like sheep now. In America and Australia, protesters stopped an insane and unpopular war.
Stan, I think it's that the people who used to protest turned into me and you and had kids and got responsibilities, and when we got old enough to have enough time to protest again, we discovered that the only people still doing it were protesting for causes we found repugnant or were lunatic cranks.
Dave