Tonight - the gloves are off!!!
In the first of a series of debates between now and the election, Blogcritics will host the kickoff debate tonight, Tuesday, September 28th between our very own Blogcritic and A-list blogger, Michele Catalano, and writer/satirist Neal Pollack (to be posted shortly after debate concludes this evening)
The 2004 presidential election is less than six weeks away. The issues and challenges that face the next president and the American people are stark and daunting. According to most pundits, the number one issue of the 2004 election is the war in Iraq. This debate will focus heavily on that, the overall war on terror and a few broader issues that are of concern to Americans on either side of the aisle.
The following is a brief bio on tonight's featured debaters:
Representing the right is self-described "security mom" Michele Catalano, the brainchild behind asmallvictory.net and command-post.org. As an A-list blogger, Michele is in the advantageous position of expressing not just her personal opinion, but also influencing a rather healthy number of other's opinions. She wields her power with laser-like precision, putting heat on media figures whom she feels represent a viewpoint that undermines the values and morals of the average American, or at the very least her own.
Michele has no reservation promoting her pet causes, while simultaneously skewering those for which she has contempt. Depending upon where you sit, Michele is either your staunchest ally or your most reviled enemy. As a Long Island mother of two, she is not easy to pigeonhole. Standing up for gay rights and pro-choice, Michele is also firmly and unwaveringly behind Bush and his strategy to fight the war on terror.
Representing a country somewhere to the left is writer Neal Pollack. Neal is an accomplished writer/satirist whose sharp and biting wit sears the soft underbelly of political and cultural figures who dare to raise his ire. With a bombastic tone and a mordant bravado, Neal charges into any and all territory shaking up the foundation of what you think you know, but clearly don't (as he is so kind to point out).
Satire this concise can leave the reader confused as to where Neal stands, but be sure of this: Neal has a stance and he doesn't suffer fools gladly. Like most creative types, Neal has branched out from the book bindings and does his "show" both on the web and on the road. We caught him just in time, as he heads out next week on a book tour to promote his latest book, Never Mind The Pollacks.
In spite of extreme technical difficulties and battling with mother nature a brief, but interesting and insightful discussion.
THE DEBATE.
Moderator: Why did we go to war with Iraq?
Michele Catalano: Saddam had WMDs. Short answer. Longer answer... WMDs were just part of the reason. In order to fight a war on terrorism, you need to obviously go to where the terrorism has its roots. To bring the dream of democracy to the middle east, and hence a sense of peace to the world, you have to start somewhere. Bringing freedom to the Iraqis would be a stepping stone to peace in the middle east. Taking Saddam out of power was a necessity.
Neal Pollack: Let me address your points one at a time. 1 Saddam did NOT have WMDs, nor did he have any substantial capacity to make them. A decade plus of sanctions had taken their toll. If you're looking at terrorism as defined by Al-Queda and related groups, then it's absurd to say Iraq was where terrorism was rooted. How many times does this have to be repeated? The hijackers were mostly Saudi. Osama bin Laden was based in Afghanistan. He and Al Queda had no substantial ties to Saddam Hussein. I will let the "dream of democracy" line stand, because I believe people sincerely believe in that dream of democracy.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Eric Olsen
you rock Dawn, really looking forward to this, thanks!
And thanks to Michele and Neal
2 - Jim Carruthers
Neal Pollack? _That_ Neal Pollack, America's Greatest Living Writer, a man who I've seen take the stage backed by a bunch of high school kids using the punk vernacular, and just blew the roof off the club, a fella who sweats torrents of both rock and roll?
No contest, was this debate organized by Don King?
3 - Zappatista
So, where's the debate at?
Did someone maybe chicken out?
4 - Dawn Olsen
No one chickened out, it was in a chat format, it needs to be edited for blogformat and it will go up some time tomorrow (since I have to edit it and all.)
Also, please don't disparage participants - both are equally matched in their ability to discuss the topics.
Not to mention, this is a bipartisan project, let's be nice. Okay? GOOD!
5 - Jim Carruthers
By the way, what I posted which was [edited] was so unbelievably filthy and subversive, you couldn't see it. You have to wait for the pay-for-view with the naked drunk college chicks, at which Mr. Pollack will be signing breasts.
6 - Jim Carruthers
bipartisan project
Oh, man, that's my favourite section at the porno store! I love that bipartisan on bipartisan action.
7 - Zappatista
Edited?
Is that like a time delay? C'mon, post the raw chat log. It'll save you hours of editing and avoid people like me checking the kerning and fonts.
8 - Lono
I am really looking forward to the debate being posted. Might I suggest allowing the posting of two formats... one of them unedited. We're all adults here, and the good Duke taught us all how to swear. So, I say sock it to us! Trust me, they wouldn't let just anyone register the name 'I am correct'!
Thanks,
Lono
Parker, CO
9 - Eric Olsen
Fear not free-speechers: "editing" means correcting typos and formatting for print. That's all. In addition, Michele had some technical difficulties and some of hers got garbled. That's all there is to it.
10 - catherine
where's the debate?! i'm dying to read it.
11 - Dawn
It will be up as soon as I have time to put it up. Until then, shut yer pieholes.
12 - Tom Johnson
Maybe for future examples it'd be better to not say "The debate is tonight!!!!" for something no one can see until it's been edited. Since outsiders can't actually witness the debate, as the big headline suggests, all that's going to result until the debate transcript shows up is a bunch of people whining "Where is it?!"
13 - Dawn
Here is the situation, we were half way through the debate and Michele's basement started flooding (she lives in NY and Jeanne hit) and she, Neal nor myself wished to see her get shocked or have her computer fried. We were forced to cut it short and since that time Michele has been extremely busy with life commitments and Neal is leaving for a book tour on Friday.
I am doing my best to piece things together, but everyone is busy. I am sorry it's not up yet, but shit happens.
Also, I'd appreciate - well actually not just appreciate but expect anyone who participates in comments to keep their comments on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Unless of course, they want me to become very agitated and act like a total bitch. Which I am very close to doing.
Thanks.
14 - Jim Carruthers
So I guess this means we can't behave like we do at most political debates and yell: "Show Us Your Tits!"
Or is that at Mardi Gras in NOLA?
15 - Eric Olsen
The debate is up - many were the impediments, but they were not to be denied!!
Thanks Michele, Neal, Dawn!
16 - Jim Carruthers
Question for Michele: how in any way is the relationship between the USA and its neighbours in any way different from the Soviet Union and Finland in the 70s?
As somebody outside the USA, I only see our government as trying to calm a violent more-heavily armed than anybody in the world psychopath to keep them from going on a thrill-kill spree. And generally being ignored, even like their bestest friend Spike.
How do you intend to fix this?
Or if you don't, why shouldn't your country be given the Old Yeller solution?
17 - Jim Carruthers
I forgot to ask a question of Neal:
Will you show us your tits?
And how will they solve the increasing decline in living standards?
18 - Bob A. Booey
I don't doubt Michele's story at all, but she was getting her ass kicked.
I will concede that Neal was much more verbose and said about 3 sentences to every one of Michele's, but go Neal Pollack. It was obviously very hard for Michele, a blogger, to debate a real writer. But I was surprised at how good a debater Pollack was, given that you all described him as a satirist.
Even you right-wingers have to admit that, as the debate went, the winner of this debate was the anti-war position. The pro-war arguments were all vague generalities without evidence or facts -- Michele could only offer philosophical statements about democracy and vague statements about terror.
I call it a TKO, long before the basement flooding.
That is all.
19 - Bob A. Booey
I think debates like this are a good idea and very entertaining. Good job, Dawn.
P.S. -- Bash them fruits.
That is all.
20 - Zappatista
Thanks for doing this Dawn, it seems like a great idea and hopefully your next attempt won't be marred by a hurricane.
I tend to agree with Bob though, M. tended to fall back on generalities (Saddam bad. Freedom good.) though this could have been at least in part due to being distracted. Still, I'm not convinced these folks were matched very well -- I enjoy both their work but they have very different styles. Ms. Catalano writes with her heart while Pollack writes with a detached cynicism honed by years of practice. Pollack is also a performer and accustomed to public speaking, something I assume Catalano is not.
I understand how the contrast may have been appealing, but these two aren't even from the same planet.
21 - Dawn
I think the onus was on Neal from the beginning. Let's face it, Kerry and crew haven't done a very good job convincing anyone that they can defend this country or even that they have clear agenda to do so - and I am a Kerry supporter.
Whoever made the strongest points (and that depends on your perspective)this was a great opening to some real discussion that needs to be had prior to the actual election.
22 - Zappatista
Dawn, I disagree and see it just the other way. Considering this administrations performance in Iraq to date if I was a Bush supporter I'd be feeling pretty defensive. Because Bush is in power the onus is him/them/they to defend what by all appearances is a failed plan. I'm a Kerry supporter who happens to dislike the man intensely, however the Dems could run a kumquat against Bush with identical results -- this is a referendum on the current administrations performance and the burden is on them to convince me why they should get another four years.
The rote recitation of talking points: "We're bringing democracy to Iran," and "Things are better," aren't enough for me. How are they better? Replacing institutional torture with a more media friendly series of 'aberrations' doesn't cut it. Since when do we judge ourselves by the standards of a tyrant? Sure, we're better than Saddam, that's a given, but are we as good as we should be and can someone else do a better job?
23 - rhodeymark
Pollack was kicking ass? I don't think so, except when he throws out fever swamp talking points like "The fact of the matter is that we went to war in Iraq because we needed a permanent military stronghold in the Middle East so we didn't have to be totally dependent on Saudi oil." Mike Moore must be his debate coach. Didja hear that Terry McAuliffe was implicated in the Nigeria violence, driving up the price of oil pre-election? You did now. If Saddam didn't have WMD then what did he use in Halabja? Didn't we have to assume that his verified stockpile was not destroyed when he refused to account for it? Has everyone forgotten the idiotic shell game he was running? Syria is now making acceptable noises imo only because they are uncomfortable with the deal they made previously with the (captured) devil.
24 - Shark
Thanks for the work, Dawn.
It was almost interesting -- sorta like watching a debate between a thoughtful intellectual and a Bush commercial.
re: Basement flooding --- Maybe God really is on our side!
Neal = smart and grounded in reality
Michele = parrot of Bush buzzwords, vague generalities, and deluded B.S.
Oh, and did I mention that we've lost Iraq?
25 - Dawn
You know what I think? NO, well fucking shut up and listen because I am going to tell you.
It doesn't matter a good goddamn who won, what person made good points or if we all get blown up tomorrow. The liberals here and everywhere are a bunch of fucking shitheads, and that includes me (YES, THAT'S RIGHT I AM "DISGUSTING" "CONTEMPABLE" LIBERAL - THERE I SAID IT). We have DONE NOT A THING to win this election. Fucking Atrios that jerkoff won't even participate in a debate even though he has the traffic and audience to make a difference.
IN FACT I CAN'T GET ONE FUCKING LIBERAL TO AGREE TO A DEBATE, so don't sit there and take pot shots at those who did while you are skulking in the background saying stupid shit.
You have something positive to add and you want to share it with the world.
HERE IS MY EMAIL: DMDO1016@AOL.COM
I have list of conservatives just waiting to make their point.