Quotes from here:
In the presence of NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and other African-American leaders, comedian Bill Cosby took aim at blacks who don't take responsibility for their economic status, blame police for incarcerations and teach their kids poor speaking habits.
[...]
When Cosby finally concluded, Leiby said, Mfume, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking "stone-faced."
Shaw told the crowd most people on welfare are not African American. He insisted many of the problems his organization addresses among blacks are not self-inflicted.
Cosby said, according to Leiby: "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids – $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.'
He added: "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English. I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't,' 'Where you is' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"
The Post said Cosby also targeted imprisoned blacks.
"These are not political criminals," he said. "These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"
I wonder how black activist types will respond to this. Will they attack Mr. Cosby for being old, rich, and out-of-touch with the issues that "real" blacks have to deal with? Or will they embrace this bit of self-criticism?
What say you, Mac Diva?
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Steven Rubio
This one's too easy:
"Have a Coke and a smile, and shut the fuck up!"
2 - RJ Elliott
"Would YO-OO-OU like to have one of my JEL-LL-LO Pops?"
;-]
3 - boomcrashbaby
*dad of a toddler banging his head on the desktop*
oh jeez, oh jeez....hooked on phonics costs 200 dollars.....
4 - Sandra Smallson
I fully embrace Bill Cosby's comments. He is spot on. Nowhere in his speech does he imply that only African Americans are on welfare. This is the problem with African Americans. Every criticism is an attack and they have a quick excuse. That's not what Cosby said so we did/do not need clarification from Leib/Howard or whoever those people are. We know and I am sure America knows not only black people are on welfare. Not only black people are on social benefits here in the UK either. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Neither is it what Bill Cosby meant.
I could not embrace his comments more. If I did, I would be having sex with it. Hear, Hear! Bill. Hear, Hear!
5 - CitizenKane
Bill is right on, just look at MTV's making the band. This is what young african americans strive for, it is wrong and confusing. The problem is that they are being exploited from every direction with promises of fast money, big cars, ice and gold.
6 - Bob A. Booey
Cosby's always been a sellout who's been out of touch. It's disappointing to see him so bitter and jaded that he's now "blaming the victim" during a time where that's really common in the neo-conservative approach to education. Look, read "Savage Inequalities" by Jonathan Kozol if you want to understand WHY kids in poor, failing school systems give up and drop out. When we fail to support inner-city schools that lack basic textbooks and punish schools for their own poverty through "No Child Left Behind," there's no wonder both teachers and students lose their motivation to learn and achieve.
At least the old Cosby was consistently upbeat and tried hard to present his view of positive black, bougie nuclear family role models (the Huxtables were doctors and lawyers and even hip Theo went to NYU). Every episode's credits featured Dr. Alvin Poussaint from Harvard as a consultant -- Poussaint is probably the most famous person in the mental health field dealing with African American youth.
I think the bottom line is that the Cos is bitter about his career. He tried twice with shows that ultimately failed after the Cosby Show. He did this "you don't even speak English" bit with Wanda Sykes at that award show last year. He's now angry and old and reactionary when it comes to young blacks and their culture, which he obviously doesn't fit into the way he did in the early 1980s.
That is all.
7 - ClubhouseCancer
I think it ain't the career. Seems like Cos is just bitter, period.
His late '90's sitcom did respectably enough to reach syndication, making him a lot of money indeed.
Methinks he's just a conservative crank. Oh, and a prick, as his humorless attempt to embarass Wanda Sykes indicated.
8 - Eric Olsen
It's ALL true, including the comments. He's talking about personal responsibility and EVERYONE ultimately is responsible for him- or herself. This does not mean that there aren't systemic, historical reasons why blacks are disadvantaged, but looking forward, he is right that education and values are the only way out of the hole.
9 - ClubhouseCancer
To single out blacks, or even "lower economic people" as Cos has, for critcism in regard to diction is laughable. I defy anyone to separate the black kids from the white kids, or the rich kids from the poor kids, in some of the teen-oriented threads around here (the Eminem one, or the Madonna ones, or Tupac).
As a writer and grammar nerd, I abhor the way most kids speak today, and I agree that education is the only way, and that the responsibility for that education falls upon the kid, his family, and the community.
It's the singling-out part to which I object .
10 - Beth
Bill Cosby has good reason to come across as embittered. He has been so since his his bereavement. His SON was murdered, another young black man the victim of senseless gun violence. Bill Cosby knows of what he speaks--illiteracy leads to hopelessness which in turn leads to violence. I applaud Bill Cosby for using his hard-earned fame to speak out courageously and controversially, in his grief. Kudos.
11 - Bob A. Booey
I knew someone would say what Beth said. But it's a silly point.
Cosby's son was killed by a Russian immigrant, NOT an inner-city black kid. So his "blaming the victim" really doesn't make sense and his joining the minority-bashing of the right-wing doesn't make sense.
This is an old debate about "culture of personal responsibility" and assailing the "lack of moral values" of people for their problems. All of you should read the book "Blaming the Victim" by Boston College psychologist William Ryan before you make this argument ever again. It's funny how conservatives are so reluctant to talk about the morality of a persisting caste system in our nation that WILLFULLY keeps the poorest and most discriminated against (on the basis of all silly things, skin color) with the LEAST resources for education and employment. We dismantle social services and community development aid that would allow people to improve their communities and raise children in safer environments and then turn around and point the finger at minorities asking why THEY don't change their "faulty morals." Instead of asking "the other half" to look inward, perhaps people in privilege should start to do the same and confront their own racism and their role in an inequitable and unjust society. It's easy to call out "pull up your bootstraps" if you're someone who's never been oppressed and it's easy to fall back on old prejudices without even attempting empathy for other human beings. You can either grow old and cynical and give into fear and blame the way Cosby has or dedicate yourself to changing the structural and cultural conditions that support racism.
Wow, I wrote a serious post for once.
That is all.
12 - boomcrashbaby
There should be no doubt that African American youth are victimized by a lot of factors outside of their own control, from racism to societally ingrained poverty, etc. However, Bill Cosby is doing African American youth A FAVOR by suggesting that they look inside themselves to find improvement. It doesn't mean that all that they encounter stems from within though.
Doing a critical analysis of one's self is a good thing. As a member of the gay community, we have some of the most critical pundits of our community coming from within. They offer valid insight into how to better our lot in life. And we continue to fight against the external factors as well. No group, no person is completely infallible to their own lot in life.
One thing is for sure, he is correct in his assessment of the usage of the English language. It's my understanding that to become a full-fledged doctor, you have to take at least 16 years of medical training BEYOND college.
And while it's one thing to read reviews of music online, that say things like 'The Albums What Changed My Life', if we went to a doctor who said 'This prescription what helps you feel better', we would be out of that office faster than a cat with it's ass on fire.
And before someone accuses me of racism, we would leave that office just as fast, if the doctor said 'Whooo-Weee! I reckon that mole kin git cancerous real quick. Wheel take it off and purty you up'.
Believe me, there are a lot of things that fall into the category of 'gay culture' but that don't fit in, in everyday life. We're proud of our culture, as imperfect as it is, and we have our own sayings/slang. There's a leather culture in the gay community, but NOBODY in their right mind would expect to become a successful doctor if they went into their office in leather chaps with their droopy buttcheeks hangin out.
Culture or not, I would NOT do business with a person who makes a fashion statement by wearing jeans 12 sizes too big, with more boxers exposed than not. I wouldn't even buy fries from that person.
Whether Bill is bitter or not, doesn't matter. Being a member of a group, gives that person THE RIGHT to criticize that group. And I'll tell you this - there are plenty of young white kids who do this too - but ANY person who would pay 500 dollars for a pair of sneakers that were made in a third world country for 4 bucks is nothing more than proof that a fool and his money are soon parted.
13 - Eric Olsen
Bob, it's the culture of dependency that forced welfare reform. This isn't a racial matter at all. At this point in time ANYONE who chooses to can rise above WHATEVER background using systems that are firmly in place. A disadvantaged background is absolute gold when it comes to utilizing the educational system. The issue is a person has TO MAKE THE CHOICE. This isn't a racial matter either. Children have to decide that they value education and achievement ahead of being cool - this is the choice that must be made. This is what Cosby was addressing.
14 - Bob A. Booey
Olsen: I think you said something nice about one of my rants on one of these random blogs, but you're kind of off here.
First, you use a neo-con buzzword like "culture of dependency" like ending welfare was an inevitability due to the moral failings of those evil "welfare moms." The end of welfare was a willful political choice made by calculating politicians -- Clinton made the promise to get the votes of Southerners and had to go through with it. Smarter people than I have documented the human cost of this "reform" on the lives of the working poor.
Secondly, "it isn't racial at all, it's about choice" reflects your lack of awareness of racial exclusion and privilege. The life choices you are afforded and made privy to are VASTLY different than those of a kid who grows up in a failing public school system that doesn't offer basic math/reading skills, much less the AP courses and college prep curriculum most of us in "white flight" suburbs could choose from. Not to mention the luxury that many of us from the suburbs didn't enjoy: the opportunity to choose from private colleges where yearly tuition exceeds the average salary of an American parent. Students in poor schools don't have access to the college board exam prep classes and are particularly disadvantaged in math and science, which hurt their preparation to succeed in these career-track majors in college (not to mention in college admissions). Their teachers and school counselors (they may not have a "college counselor") suggest community colleges or trade schools, if they suggest any further schooling at all based on unfairly low expectations.
It's hard to succeed in college when your high school lacks the resources to prepare you for the rigor and advanced background assumed in college coursework. It's hard to catch up and it requires THAT much more work to even have a chance to compete. This isn't an excuse; it's a reality that's unfair to many bright students who don't receive the proper mentoring and support well-to-do students take for granted.
Affirmative action has been virtually dismantled in the majority of universities as well, so the angry white male backlash against this other neo-con buzzword is almost kicking a dead horse. The racists will soon have their dream meritocracy: entire law school classes and elite schools with 1-2 black faces, if any at all. Again, smarter people than I have documented the numbers. The point is: you neo-cons are winning this battle, court decisions about legality aside.
Absolute gold? Justify that statement. Please do, I beg of you. Empirical evidence would be great.
Until you have had experience in rising above "whatever," save the patronizing Pollyanna sentiments. The language of choice is an implicit moral condemnation -- there are lots of kids who CHOOSE to follow the right path who are continually underestimated, unrewarded, and eventually frustrated by the continual racism in this country that views African-Americans as intellectually and academically inferior.
Cosby's RIGHT to say a doctor shouldn't speak jive. He's wrong to blame the "lower economic people" who don't reside in his tax bracket and associate them with an inability to speak English or pursue education. That's how you know we have an underclass and have grown to accept the injustice of that fact in this society: when we have abandoned the old dream of helping minorities and the poor move up into the middle class and have deemed them morally culpable for their own struggles because of "wrong CHOICES." When we stop encouraging those kids to strive to be doctors and mock their choice in shoes and their speech without any positive model for them to emulate. Cosby used to present himself and his characters as one of those role models -- I'm disappointed that he's decided to forgo that obligation now.
"Color-blindness" and talk of individualism is fun and easy if you've grown up privileged and never really had to pull yourself up by the bootstraps. It also abdicates you of any responsibility for changing society and helping others improve their education and status. Our society isn't color-blind: it's racist in so many ways, in virtually all our encounters and actions. You can deny that reality or be moved by it. And I think that anyone who uses the language of ethics and morality should really think about THAT choice and how they in turn are defined by it.
If you are serious about this issue and not just talking to be clever without trying to learn about the issue (justifying your own pre-conceived notions), read that Kozol book, Savage Inequalities. I'd like to hear your reaction and have an intelligent conversation with any of you conservatives about the "structures" you claim people can use to "choose anything they want."
What structures would those be, by the way? I'd like to know.
Schools today are more segregated than they were before Brown v. Board -- we celebrate this symbolic decision for its legal precedent, but our dreams of integretation have remained just dreams. We have lacked the moral courage and empathy to engage across racial boundaries and fled to our own enclaves to operate within our own stereotypes, never to be confirmed or denied by getting to know "them."
I don't think any of you really get the psychology of oppression despite your use of phrases like "culture of depedency." Of course all young people should be encouraged to dream the biggest dreams they can, but so many of our young people are beaten down by the harsh realities they see around them in everyday life that their dreams don't ever see any encouragement. And I'm not sure it's the best gesture for adults who do have the freedom to make unfettered choices to lecture them about the failures of "their culture" and "their choices" when our society as a whole has made an awful lot of bad choices and has a lot of cultural prejudices we either deny or smugly refuse to deal with. Where's your talk of accountability then? Where's your "adult" notion of responsibility toward people who are oppressed by your ignorance or indifference?
Make your choice.
Oh, and Boomcrash: if you've read any queer theory, you should know that one of the central struggles for gays has been the ability to define ONESELF instead of having people constantly define you from the outside with stereotypes. I think gays have learned a lot from the civil rights and black power movements about the struggle African-Americans have had to be ABLE to have insight and self-examination without being pre-judged and excluded based on the color of one's skin and not one's ability or character. It's naive to think that struggle is over.
15 - boomcrashbaby
Oh, and Boomcrash: if you've read any queer theory, you should know that one of the central struggles for gays has been the ability to define ONESELF instead of having people constantly define you from the outside with stereotypes.
Yes, Bob, I agree with what you say. I agree with this too. It's my understanding/interpretation from Bill Cosby that there is a line where one can define one's self and then fall out of the acceptable mainstream.
Since we are focusing on clothing here....there are many gay people who CHOOSE to define themselves on the size of their package. As ridiculous as it sounds, they do so. This is why they wear skimpy hotpants in pride parades or at nightclubs. However, if one needs to define themselves that way in a job interview....*throwing my hands in the air** then go right ahead. Do what you gotta do. However if that person then comes to me and complains that they can't get a break because society limits them, well don't expect any sympathy from me. Call this liberal, gay, pro-Kerry person as a neo-conservative and put all the blame on me. That's just fine.
I think gays have learned a lot from the civil rights and black power movements about the struggle African-Americans have had to be ABLE to have insight and self-examination without being pre-judged and excluded based on the color of one's skin and not one's ability or character.
This is true. We have learned a lot from the civil rights struggles of the past. We have learned the insight of self-examination, but judging by external factors such as orientation or skin color is still there. It probably will always be there, definitely in our lifetime. My thought was that Cosby was not dismissing that fact, just looking inward, which I believe is a good thing.
It's naive to think that struggle is over.
When did I say that? Actually I said "It doesn't mean that all that they encounter stems from within though."
If you want to wear the top of your pants below your buttcheeks, and twist the English language so that you have a definition of your 'self' then go right ahead. Most of us, when we do our self-examination come to realize that our identity isn't contingent on such nebulous adaptations as removable clothing, hand mannerisms or vocal slang.
*glancing over at a large segment of the gay community* But then again many of us do....
16 - boomcrashbaby
been the ability to define ONESELF instead of having people constantly define you from the outside with stereotypes
And please tell me how a gay man wearing hot pants or an African American dressing like a rapper thug isn't FURTHERING a stereotype.
17 - boomcrashbaby
*last afterthought*
When I meet with a client, I wear a suit and tie. When I work from home, I'm often in shorts. When I go shopping I wear blue jeans.
AT NO TIME, is my sense of self-identity, or how I define myself as a person, tied to my clothing. It's my own personal opinion that anybody that does so, whether it is a teen who thinks that his cool factor goes up because he has a certain brand of footwear or a teen who wants to dress like her favorite singer, is clearly on the wrong path to discovering his/her true sense of self.
18 - Bob A. Booey
NB: I have a feeling I'll lose most readers of this discussion with this particular post, which is addressing BoomCrashBaby's specific questions. Feel free to ignore it if you want to focus on the larger discussion of race and class above. This is a little bit of a digression but may help some of you understand some of this stuff anyways.
********************************
You say: "When I meet with a client, I wear a suit and tie. When I work from home, I'm often in shorts. When I go shopping I wear blue jeans.
AT NO TIME, is my sense of self-identity, or how I define myself as a person, tied to my clothing. It's my own personal opinion that anybody that does so, whether it is a teen who thinks that his cool factor goes up because he has a certain brand of footwear or a teen who wants to dress like her favorite singer, is clearly on the wrong path to discovering his/her true sense of self."
***********************************
Ah, here's the rub, though ...
Cosby assumes that because a kid wears baggy jeans and talks in slang that he's uneducable and low-class. He doesn't seem to realize that the slang gays or blacks use is yet another role that minorities slip in and out of and doesn't define who they are, much as having sex with someone or having a certain skin color shouldn't define who you are from the outside. What makes you think those black kids' true selves are revealed in their clothes? DuBois talked about doubling in the experience of race and minorities are almost forced to have two selves in order to negotiate different worlds, as you point out from your own experience. Most blacks don't have the ability to "pass" the way you do, but Cosby seems to want to negate one aspect of black identity and culture in order to side with a black middle class that only recently has emerged from poverty and blue-collar work.
I'm not black, so I won't comment on the subversiveness of various clothing and language choices. I will say that a lot of gay theorists have talked about drag and dandies as subversive postures that turn stereotypes upon their head by exploiting them in the face of the disapproving "mainstream" so as to question the very idea of a "mainstream." The central question of gay identity has been, "Who are they to define what is normal and to say I'm abnormal and deviant?" There's a certain unsettling quality to something like drag, where gay men take very conventional "mainstream" images and behaviors associated with hetero women and femininity and adopt them to question the very idea of gender and sexuality. The flamboyant dandy may confirm stereotypes or offend the "mainstream," but might also represent the opportunity to use irony in order to challenge people's expectations of behavior. For example, if you were to go to work in hot pants and engage in your usual serious, business-like work, it might make them question their assumptions about what makes a good worker they can trust (a "straight" arrow) and might also expose the folly of associating clothing and sexuality with one's reliability and job performance. The same might be true for a black worker dressed in hip hop gear. Unfortunately, most of us can't afford that kind of gamble.
But you get the idea: if you're going to say that clothing and speech don't necessarily define the person and that they're used strategically in varying situations, then Cosby and others are wrong for judging people based on stereotypes. When the problem of the day is that we define people in a way that locks them into oppression (whether gay or black), then villifying certain forms of personal expression as being the "worst" of a culture can lead to real trouble with stereotypes.
The real issue here isn't image, it's assumptions about race. There are a lot of rich white kids spending a lot of money buying hip hop clothes but we don't condemn their morals the way some do when they see a young black man wearing the same sneakers. Morever, we don't have the same fears and emotional reactions to what we think those clothes and words symbolize or "signify." Black folks signify. It doesn't mean they're low-class or unworthy of an education or criminals.
I'm sure there's an equivalent analogy for gay expression that I'm not familiar with, like the idea of "butch" femininity or other seeming contradictions that expose the arbitrary nature of our stereotypes.
19 - boomcrashbaby
There are a lot of rich white kids spending a lot of money buying hip hop clothes but we don't condemn their morals the way some do when they see a young black man wearing the same sneakers.
I need time to absorb all that you wrote. But just wanted to comment on this before I go make dinner...
My reading of Cosby's statement was that the underpriviledged was spending money on sneakers instead of hooked on phonics. This could be addressed to black or white, but I got the idea he was speaking to a black audience about black people.
I wouldn't go condemn a rich white OR black kid for paying 500 dollars for sneakers because one would assume that they also have the money to further their education either by H.O.P. or by a tutor, etc.
It's not a fair world, Bob. Any poor kid, of ANY race, that tries to live like a rich kid isn't going to get far in this world, although CapitalOne would sure like to talk to them, I bet.
Let me absorb the rest of your post, and respond later.
20 - Jamaal
I believe that Bill Cosby picked the ideal place to voice his opinions, and I agree with everything that was said. However, I feel that it's one thing to complain about the issues and another to solve the problem. I know that Bill has given a great deal of money to Black colleges, but unfortunately that isn't enough. As a five-year veteran teacher of the elementary school setting in the South Bronx, I realize that the problems arise way before college. And Bill Cosby, as well as other "Black Leaders," need to take a long hard look at the lives of the young children in our community. Lastly, these parents need teaching and guidance, not ridicule.
21 - boomcrashbaby
Cosby assumes that because a kid wears baggy jeans and talks in slang that he's uneducable and low-class.
Wrong. I didn't hear the actual speech, I can just go by the initial post in this thread. But he says "the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."
That is NOT all black youth. YOU are the one putting them all together, not Cosby.
The post also says "He took aim at blacks who don't take responsibility for their economic status, blame police for incarcerations and teach their kids poor speaking habits."
I certainly hope you don't lay that statement as a blanket across ALL African Americans. I'm quite sure, Cosby didn't do that. He's talking about those in poverty, and I'm also sure that if asked, he would say it doesn't apply to ALL those in poverty. But there are those who do what he's talking about, and he's telling them to look inside themselves. I still think that is a good thing.
Most blacks don't have the ability to "pass" the way you do,
What does that mean? If they (those that Cosby is referring to) skipped the 500 dollar shoes, they could buy a suit at that price and 'pass' just the way I do. But they CHOOSE not to. How can you apply for a job as an intern at a law firm, when you don't have a suit but you have a 500 dollar pair of sneakers?
I will say that a lot of gay theorists have talked about drag and dandies as subversive postures that turn stereotypes upon their head by exploiting them in the face of the disapproving "mainstream" so as to question the very idea of a "mainstream."
Yes, that's true. But how successful do they become? Have you ever heard of a board meeting where one man will turn to another and call him Mary? No. If so, it's definitely the exception rather than the rule. The 'n' word, is sometimes co-opted by the African American community, to refer to themselves in much the same way, as a term of endearment. But will you ever attend a corporate board meeting where one black person turns to the other and calls him the 'n' word? No. You won't.
You can co-opt a negative to turn it around into a positive, but the rest of the world still views it as a negative, and thereby you limit yourself. His beef wasn't so much about the youth, it seems, but that the parents were perpetuating it! The parents never grew out of it.
There's a certain unsettling quality to something like drag, where gay men take very conventional "mainstream" images and behaviors associated with hetero women and femininity and adopt them to question the very idea of gender and sexuality.
Yes, Bob. They do that at pride parades, at gay clubs, within their own community, but not as a way of life! (If it's done as a way of life, then they are transexual, of which the majority are heterosexual, so that's different - they identify as something other than which they were born physically, which puts them in a different category).
For example, if you were to go to work in hot pants and engage in your usual serious, business-like work, it might make them question their assumptions about what makes a good worker they can trust (a "straight" arrow) and might also expose the folly of associating clothing and sexuality with one's reliability and job performance. The same might be true for a black worker dressed in hip hop gear. Unfortunately, most of us can't afford that kind of gamble.
It depends on the job, Bob. We are talking about successful 'mainstream' careers. Rappers can get away with that. Trust me, if a dentist or a gynecologist or a district supervisor at WalMart did that, they would be in for an eye-opener. The same would go for a gay contruction worker who went to work in hot pants, that's why they don't do it! Gay people know there's a time and a place for it (most gay people anyway). According to Cosby, for many impoverished African Americans, there isn't a time and a place, it's ALL the time.
villifying certain forms of personal expression as being the "worst" of a culture can lead to real trouble with stereotypes.
He lays blames on the parents, because he said that the parents talk/dress the same way.
There are a lot of rich white kids spending a lot of money buying hip hop clothes but we don't condemn their morals the way some do when they see a young black man wearing the same sneakers.
Read my earlier response. It's not the clothes that Cosby was ranting against, it was the COST of the clothes, and sacrificing more important things for those clothes. I'm the one that was griping against the type of clothing! (Cuz baggy pants make it look like you have no butt, and I just hate that in a man.)
Black folks signify. It doesn't mean they're low-class or unworthy of an education or criminals.
I'm sure there's an equivalent analogy for gay expression that I'm not familiar with, like the idea of "butch" femininity or other seeming contradictions that expose the arbitrary nature of our stereotypes.
Yes, well I did say that the gay community has it's own faults. All I can say is that any person who identifies their sense of self with their appearance is either an entertainer or never grew out of a high school mentality. That applies across the board to ALL people.
(For a lot of gay people, they would choose a certain appearance as an identifier, because as you put it, they would 'pass' otherwise, and never meet each other. That is also different, and in a world of stereotypes, limiting in and of itself.)
22 - Natalie Davis
Depends on how one defines "success," BCB. Most of those who shine in boardrooms are not what I would call successful.
23 - boomcrashbaby
True, Natalie. Since we are talking about Cosby's comments, in this case, I am referring to success as the ability to get one's self out of an impoverished economic state. If an African American is self sufficient, then of course, Cosby wasn't talking about him/her.
24 - RJ Elliott
"baggy pants make it look like you have no butt, and I just hate that in a man."
LOL!
I think in the RW, we'd be cool, BCB...
25 - Natalie Davis
Most trying to get out of an impoverished state aren't going to end up in boardrooms any time soon. Cosby doubtless considers "mainstream" jobs success; many people think otherwise. Some of us consider adultery the antithesis of success -- Cosby's wealth and mainstream success didn't stop him from going down the road to failure in that area.
I am all for speaking the language properly and for pushing personal responsibility. Education is of paramount importance -- he is correct about that. And a poor human of any hue opting to buy $500 shoes rather than HOP makes me cringe. Absolutely. I am not saying Cosby is wrong. But I do see him as a bitter man pushing meaningless conformity for the sake of a hollow type of "success" and, in the process, setting himself up as judge and jury.
Cosby and the unfortunate Dennis Miller are very much alike, sad to say. Both used to be hilarious -- now, they just dispense hot air.
And I hate baggy pants too. What is that fad about?