Much has been written and said by both conservatives and liberals about Vice President Joe Biden's laughing, disrespectful, rude performance at last Thursday's (October 11, 2012) vice presidential debate. The conservative/liberal political angle has been written about so much that I just could not resist offering these Biblical passages in yet another angle.
There is, in the Old Testament of the Holy Bible, the book of Proverbs, the parables of Solomon, the son of David, king of Israel. It "is so called, because it consists of wise and weighty sentences: regulating the morals of men: and directing them to wisdom and virtue." Let's see what the world's most published, read, and quoted book says:
- Proverbs, chapter 29, verse 9:
- "If a wise man hath a controversy with a foolish man, Whether he be angry or laugh, there will be no rest." And, here is John Wesley's comment: "addressing the word "Whether," Wesley says, Whether - Whether he, the wise man, deal sharply with him, or mildly, there is no rest, no end or fruit of the debate.And permit me to add these two verses as well, verses 11 and 12:
"A fool uttereth all his anger; But a wise man keepeth it back and stilleth it.""If a ruler hearkeneth to falsehood, All his servants are wicked."
- Proverbs, chapter 30, verse 32:
- "If thou hast done foolishly in lifting up thyself, Or if thou hast thought evil, [Lay] thy hand upon thy mouth." Verse 33 offers perspective and what is to come: "Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife."Wesley's comment:
- verse 32: Thought - Designed any injury against thy neighbour.
verse 33: The forcing - The stirring up of wrath, either in a man's self towards others, by giving way to passion; or in others by reproaches, or any other provocations."
- Proverbs, chapter 1, verse 22:
- "How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And scoffers delight them in scoffing, And fools hate knowledge?"Wesley's comment:
Scoffers - That scoff at religion and condemn the word and faithful ministers of God.
My comment: The operative part of this verse is, "And fools hate knowledge?"
- Proverbs, chapter 3, verse 35:
- "The wise shall inherit glory; But shame shall be the promotion of fools."Wesley's comment:
Shame - Instead of that glory which they seek.
- Proverbs, chapter 10, verse 14:
- "The wise store away knowledge. But the mouth of the foolish is a neighbor to confusion."Wesley's comment:
Knowledge - Whereby they may be enabled to speak both what, and when it is seasonable.
But - Fools are more forward to lay out than to lay up, and for want of knowledge speak much and foolishly, whereby they frequently bring destruction upon themselves.
Just so you readers don't get confused, it was Joe Biden who laughed, was condescending, rude, and acted the fool.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Glenn Contrarian
A wise man once said, "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
2 - Baronius
Roger - Therefore, quoting the Bible is fascistic? Either that's what you're implying or your comment was a non sequitur.
3 - Baronius
Sorry - Glenn, not Roger. Actually, it's more problematic that it's you, Glenn, saying that, as you're someone who espouses both flag and cross. That makes your comment seem less like a principled stand and more like a cheap shot.
4 - Not the liberal actor
Re: comment # 3, Baronius, well said! Please notice that Glenn, a self-described strong Christian, was unable, in comment # 1, to offer ANY Biblical passage(s).
5 - El Bicho
maybe he didn't find a website to copy them from
6 - Not the liberal actor
Re: comment # 5, EB, is that the best you can do? You really make me LOL! I gave my source. Now it's your turn. And where I got my sources in no way changes the message, or its applicability.
7 - Deano
Right... because a 2,000 year old, heavily abridged, multi-authored, oft-poorly translated, mostly mythical skewed biblical tome written for pre-medieval desert tribesmen is by far the best methodology for assessing or solving modern political decisions.
Perhaps next we should call upon the Mighty Zeus to smite the heathens...
8 - Glenn Contrarian
Um, Baronius -
Unlike some people - such as the Religious Right - I don't believe in forcing the tenets of my religion upon others. It's funny how the GOP believes so strongly in small government, but is all too eager to support whatever the Religious Right tells them to support.
For instance, before the rise of the Religious Right in the mid-1990's, could a Republican politician even dream of being one heartbeat away from the White House if he espoused outlawing abortion even in cases of rape or incest? Now that's part and parcel of the official GOP political platform! Oh, and let's not forget the two GOP governors that pushed mandatory ultrasounds for women wanting abortions - welcome to the Religious Right's brand of small government!
Could the GOP have really gotten away with assigning congressmen to the House Science Committee who believed that evolution and the big bang were "falsehoods from the pit of hell", and that women couldn't get pregnant by being raped?
Thanks to the rise of the Religious Right, there's schools that teach that the Loch Ness Monster disproves evolution. And then there's the "don't say 'gay' in sex ed" bills in Missouri, Utah, and Tennessee, and the fetal personhood bills that they have pushed in various states!
Baronius, in the parlance of the modern political world, the teachings of Jesus are quite socialistic...and here's perhaps a better explanation of the fact.
One last thing, Baronius - remember that the same party that is so...infested by the Religious Right is also the same party that is pushing corporate personhood. Now go look up fascism - not the Nazi brand, but the real by-the-book fascism that Mussolini pushed. That's not quite a complete fit for what the Right is advocating, but it's certainly too close for comfort.
9 - Igor
@1-Glenn: I think it was Sinclair Lewis, who wrote an excellent book called "It Can't Happen Here" (which I remember as the proud boast of my parents contemporaries, in an invidious comparison to the Europeans) about how an oafish small town politician named "Buzz Windrip" (one of the great names in American literature!) becomes the first American dictator. Think of Andy Griffin in "A Face In The Crowd". A pale imitation of Lewis' fine book.
Red Lewis was much despised in Middle America for "Main Street", which gave a not-pretty view of American small-town values (you know, the sort of thing radical right republicans are always weeping about), and "Elmer Gantry", which ripped the mask of hypocrisy from the tent-show evangelicals which preceded todays TVAngelists (thus dismaying the power-mad religionists) and "Babbit" which exposed the falsity and hopelessness of American small business.
Yes, Sinclair Lewis was much denounced by his childhhod familiars, and excoriated from coast to coast by Good Republican Americans, but today you can go to Sauke Centre ("The Original Gopher Prairie" proudly pronounces the road sign) and drive down "The Original Main Street" and even drive by his childhood home, where his father, the original for Dr. Kennecut in "Main Street" and "Arrowsmith" practiced medicine and raised his family.
Because, you see, Lewis transcended the American Hoi Polloi and became a celebrity! The Holy Of Holies! A celebrity! Truly a member of Americas Real Royalty. Only exceeded by primped-up movie stars.
How delicious success must have been for his pals and contemporaries: Thomas Wolfe, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Steinbeck, and even my own uncle Johnny who went to New York, became a famous illustrator and married The Most Beautiful Woman In New York City (the men in my family have always been skilled at finding and wooing the most fabulous women).
None of them returned. Tom Wolfe even wrote a book "You Can't Go Home Again". John Steinbeck had to sneak into Salinas as a middle-aged man to visit his sister. He was hated in the Salinas Valley and his books had been banned thru central California. A friend of mine had to take the Greyhound bus 200 miles from Hollister to San Francisco to buy "The Grapes Of Wrath". Now, Steinbeck is celebrated in Salinas because he brings Bu$ine$$ their way. Their way being somewhere East Of Eden, where Adam and Eve were driven in disgrace by an angry god.
10 - Not the liberal actor
Re: comment # 7, Deano, your opinion of the Bible is worth exactly what I paid for it: NOTHING! And, just how many books, fiction or non-fiction, have YOU authored lately?
Re: comment # 8, Glenn, you now blame the "Religious Right" for your inability to cite EVEN ONE Biblical passage. You say, "Unlike some people - such as the Religious Right - I don't believe in forcing the tenets of my religion upon others." Well, if you cite any Biblical passage, we can choose to read them or not, so don't worry about "forcing the tenets of my religion upon others." BTW, Dr. Dreadful, what Glenn is currently offering qualifies as a rant.
11 - Glenn Contrarian
Warren -
Re: comment # 3, Baronius, well said! Please notice that Glenn, a self-described strong Christian, was unable, in comment # 1, to offer ANY Biblical passage(s).
'Unable'? Hardly. Warren, I spent eight years in , made literally thousands of posts on, and for a couple of years moderated a religious forum. If you want to get into a religious debate, sir, I can certainly do that, and in spades.
My comment #1 concerned the fact that you - and those you referenced - are using religion to push a political agenda...something which Christ did NOT preach. In fact, Jesus told us to pay our taxes (Matthew 22:21) and insisted upon following the rule of the Roman government even though He knew it would result in His execution - remember, He even stopped Peter from defending Him when He was being arrested. At NO point does Jesus even hint that we are to reject the government even if the government is evil - for those who do not belong to Him will have their own problems later.
I am a strong Christian - I try to follow as best I can the teachings of Jesus and His apostles. BUT most 'churches' of the modern world have no clue. For instance, Jesus is not and never was God, and the 'trinity' is an invention that no Biblical figure ever preached.
Before you start trying to defend Jesus' alleged divinity, remember that Jesus DIED...which means that if trinitarian theory were true, then it had to have become a 'duality' for the period of time that Jesus was dead. Furthermore, if you were to do some research, you'd find that the Hebrews NEVER thought that God was part of a trinity...but every other nation and culture from the Indus to Iberia DID worship a trinity in one form or another, usually (but not always) as part of a pantheon of gods - Ba'al was part of one such trinity, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia.
Furthermore, just reading the Bible won't give you the answers you need, Warren, for as Romans 10:14-15 make clear, you must receive the Gospel from one that is sent to preach the Gospel...and as 1 Corinthians 1:10 makes clear, all those in the Body of Christ must believe the same thing, with no division - which completely nullifies the protestant belief that it doesn't matter which denomination one goes to, as long as one believes. For instance, the Baptists believe in baptism by immersion, whereas the Episcopalians believe in baptism by sprinkling; that is division of belief. BUT if you ask the preachers of either one, they'll say that the other will probably be saved, too - thereby falling afoul of Paul's admonition in Corinthians, and thus proving their ignorance of the commandments of God, Jesus, and the apostles.
Want more? I can do this all day long, Warren. The only reason I don't is that the Church of which I am a member is apolitical in America - in the 20 years I've attended twice a week (and sometimes every day of the week and twice on Sunday) (except for when I was at sea), I've never once heard a minister preach on political topics...
...which is directly following Jesus' example. Think about that the next time you hear your preacher say something about the political process.
12 - roger nowosielski
"Now go look up fascism - not the Nazi brand, but the real by-the-book fascism that Mussolini pushed." #8
As per Anarcissie, "Mussolini's formula was 'Everything within the state; nothing outside of the state; nothing against the state.'" (see comment #26) So it looks as though that it is the liberals, not the conservatives," who are closer to Mussolini's brand of fascism for being statists.
13 - Not the liberal actor
Re: comment # 11, Glenn, you say, "'Unable'? Hardly. Warren, I spent eight years in , made literally thousands of posts on, and for a couple of years moderated a religious forum. If you want to get into a religious debate, sir, I can certainly do that, and in spades." Well, with those qualifications, you should have no problem offering even one Biblical passage. Yet you conspicuously continue to offer none. Yes, I'm calling you out.
You say, "Want more? I can do this all day long, Warren. The only reason I don't is that the Church of which I am a member is apolitical in America - in the 20 years I've attended twice a week (and sometimes every day of the week and twice on Sunday) (except for when I was at sea), I've never once heard a minister preach on political topics..." And now you will cite specific examples of just how my article is, in any way, political. It, just in case you have been blinded by ideology, was a citation of Biblical passages that are quite apporpriate to Biden's disrespectful, rude, outlandish behavior.
You sound just like Obama did last week, during the debate, when asked to specifically answer questions. He could not. All he could do was look down, and we all got to see just an empty suit he is.
Damn, but this fun. Glenn, you are an easy target.
14 - Baronius
I'm always reluctant to go off on religious tangents in the Politics section, but I have to say that the idea that every religion has a trinity is driven by confirmation bias. If you're looking for a trinity, you'll find it even if it isn't there. In fact, if you look at the web page you linked to, you won't find the idea of a Babylonian trinity there either. You'll find the word "trinity" along with an explanation of why the trinitarian paradigm isn't applicable. Really, this might be the perfect example of confirmation bias, the linking to an article with one word in your defense and a thousand words against your case.
15 - Costello
What will commentors accomplish posting Bible passages? But I'll play along: thou shall not steal. Were you aware of that one when you were stealing credit for articles you didn't write?
16 - Not the liberal actor
Re: comment # 15, Costello, did you even bother to look at, much less read, the second page of the article?
17 - Glenn Contrarian
Warren -
Well, with those qualifications, you should have no problem offering even one Biblical passage. Yet you conspicuously continue to offer none. Yes, I'm calling you out.
Never mind that I pointed out specific verses in Matthew, Romans, and 1 Corinthians. I've got no problem quoting the verses in full - I just chose to not include the full quotes for brevity's sake and ASSUMED that you would have the wherewithal to go look those verses up. Shame on me for assuming you'd go to the effort of looking them up, I guess.
And now you will cite specific examples of just how my article is, in any way, political. It, just in case you have been blinded by ideology, was a citation of Biblical passages that are quite apporpriate to Biden's disrespectful, rude, outlandish behavior.
Wait - are you saying that you posted the above article in the Politics section without any political motivation behind it? Really, Warren? Really? Would you tell the same thing to God?
18 - Deano
Re: comment 10: Actually Warren, I've authored two books and the third one is in the works.
And if you don't want feedback on your non-sensical, poorly argued, derivative and shallow-minded meandering postings that continually set the high-water mark for inane stupidity and hypocritical posturing...then don't post them.
That advice is FREE by the way.
19 - Dr Dreadful
BTW, Dr. Dreadful, what Glenn is currently offering qualifies as a rant.
Only what Glenn is offering? It's so easy to take Biblical passages and apply them in either a positive or negative light to the doings of any politician, or indeed to anything whatsoever, that one is led to wonder what substance one is supposed to discern in your article.
None at all? Just a series of Bible quotes? Sounds like a rant to me.
20 - Not the liberal actor
Re: comment # 17, Glenn, you say, "... I pointed out specific verses in Matthew, Romans, and 1 Corinthians." And now you will explain how those verses justify Biden's behavior. More obfuscation? You, in your mind (only), talk a good game, but you never seem to get to the specific point at hand.
You say, "Wait - are you saying that you posted the above article in the Politics section without any political motivation behind it?" Is that the best you can do? Let's see: Biden-Politics. I, somehow, get the connection, but you seem to miss it. Now you can tell me where I should have posted my article.
Re: comment # 18, Deano, Book titles? Please don't be shy. I'm sure that your books have out-sold The Bible, and your books have been quoted more often, as well.
You say, "And if you don't want feedback on your non-sensical, poorly argued, derivative and shallow-minded meandering postings that continually set the high-water mark for inane stupidity and hypocritical posturing...then don't post them." Your opinion is showing. And I could not help but notice that you (1) offered no Biblical verses, and (2) offered no specific feedback, unless you consider your rant as specific feedback.
And I'm glad the advice you gave was free, because that's EXACTLY what it's worth.
Re: comment # 19, Doc, feel free to contribute ANY Biblical verses to further your position.
21 - Dr Dreadful
Really, this might be the perfect example of confirmation bias, the linking to an article with one word in your defense and a thousand words against your case.
...Or the perfect case of special pleading, in which Baronius explains to us just why the Christian Trinity is fundamentally different from the hundreds of other trinities to be found in world mythology.
22 - Dr Dreadful
Re: comment # 19, Doc, feel free to contribute ANY Biblical verses to further your position.
And what position would that be?
Pro-Biden?
"None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he shall surely live." (Ezekiel 33:16)
Anti-Biden?
"Behold, you are nothing, and your work is less than nothing; an abomination is he who chooses you." (Isaiah 41:24)
Anti-Warren?
"But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (Romans 14:10)
Come to that, why the Bible particularly? Other literature would do just as well. Let's try Mark Twain, for instance:
"When we badly want a thing, we go to hunting for good and righteous reasons for it; we give it that fine name to comfort our consciences, whereas we privately know we are only hunting for plausible ones." ("The Mysterious Stranger")
We could go at this all night.
23 - Deano
I could quote you my grocery list and it would have just as much relevance to the matter at hand as your scriptures, which is to say none. You've hoisted up a big straw man and when we don' t engage it, you claim victory.
As I noted before: inane, shallow posturing. Let me know when you can scrap together an original thought or idea.
24 - El Bicho
No, that's not the best I can do, but there's no reason to waste my best on you. Is this the best you can do, copying other people copying from the Bible? And you paid such little attention with your cut and paste job you don't introduce to readers who John Wesley is.
Like Deano and others, I have no idea what you think you are accomplishing with this ridiculous challenge of quoting the Bible. It's utter nonsense, but to throw you a bone, here's one that the editors of this section and the site appear to have taken to heart with the low bar they set on accepting your submissions:
"if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." (1 Cor. 14:37)
25 - Glenn Contrarian
Warren -
Re: comment # 17, Glenn, you say, "... I pointed out specific verses in Matthew, Romans, and 1 Corinthians." And now you will explain how those verses justify Biden's behavior. More obfuscation? You, in your mind (only), talk a good game, but you never seem to get to the specific point at hand.
I wasn't trying to justify Biden's behavior at all - I was questioning your behavior...and - assuming your beliefs are as I suspect - I was showing you a few of those errors in your beliefs...especially in your attempt to use Scripture to justify your personal judgment of a politician.
You say, "Wait - are you saying that you posted the above article in the Politics section without any political motivation behind it?" Is that the best you can do? Let's see: Biden-Politics. I, somehow, get the connection, but you seem to miss it. Now you can tell me where I should have posted my article.
I notice you left off the rest of the paragraph: Really, Warren? Really? Would you tell the same thing to God? I included that because God knows what is in your heart. Is that why you didn't include it in your quote?