Those who favor unrealistic border security schemes are either ignorant of the facts or pursuing an agenda other than solving the immigration problem.
The fun thing about the immigration debate is that it never goes away. I started writing on the topic a year ago, firmly convinced that it was a vital issue to address because we might have a new immigration policy at any moment. Now I realize that I can keep writing on it forever, because the anti-immigration ideologues will never come to their senses. So we'll never get any kind of immigration policy passed, and bloggers and pundits can feel free to enjoy the topic forever.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Tom
What about those who wait in line to get a visa to work here? now who else in Mexico still want to apply for a visa and wait to get it approved?
27 - lori
I can't believe an editor thought the article was too long.
In any case, I think the guest worker program makes a lot of sense. It would make what people are already doing a legal activity. It might not solve the illegal immigration problem, but it would surely put a dent in it.
28 - uncle sam
They are all criminals because they are ILLEGAL!
They come to our country and contribute to the spread of disease because they lack proper imunizations. They cost everyone more money in medical costs and auto insurance. They do not try to learn english and their hearts are with mexico not the united states!
29 - Phillip Winn
"The one negative tax impact is that they act to transfer money from the states who pay most of the services, especially education, to the federal government which gets most of the tax benefits."
That's a big negative tax impact, Dave! As you know, here in Texas, that's the biggest issue there is, budget-wise.
Regarding taxes, the assumption seems to be that small private employers aren't withholding taxes, but are instead committing tax fraud. While there is certainly some of that going on, the majority of small business, even very very small business, are withholding taxes from all employees. Most of them might try the tax fraud route to save a few bucks, but their biggest concerns are finding employees to do the work, and watching out for the IRS, by whose hand they will face severe consequences if caught not withholding.
Many very small employers handle payroll through a payroll service, which handles the withholding for them. The only people violating those laws tend to be household that hire a nanny, and some day-laborers. Even in those cases, however, the numbers Dave sourced above demonstrate that the vast majority of illegal workers are not escaping the clutches of the IRS.
The IRS: more effective than the border patrol! :-)
30 - Dave Nalle
1. like above said, Withholding taxes are for for large companies, very few for private employers - the bulk of those hiring illegals,
You have a funny idea of what a 'large' company is. If you hire people as regular employees, not just day workers you're required to pay withholding regardless of the size of the business. No exceptions. I think you're confusing day laborers who make up maybe at most 20% of the illegal population and the vast majority who work in regular jobs and get a paycheck and pay taxes.
2. Even they do withhold, you would expect they would only withhold the very minimum, then consider the majority of the illegal immigrants were hired by small private employers that do NOT withhold, you would get an idea of how much on average they would pay in tax.
They withhold what the IRS tells them to withhold, which is about 20%.
3. It is another crime to commit fraud to IRS by using fraudulent id.
Then let's stop that crime by making them legal guest workers and issuing IDs so that we can reliably tax them and keep track of them so they don't overstay their guest worker visas. End of problem.
31 - Phillip Winn
#28, and the evidence for your assertions is...?
32 - Thomas
The immigration system needs to be reformed to expedite the naturalization process so that the temptation to bypass it is not as strong. The current job market needs incentives and reforms to not continue a cycle of employing persons who crossed into the country illegally, especially when said companies do not respect the proper tax and benefits systems that supposedly make life easier for the working class now and in the future. Government needs to stop creating sounds bytes for incumbents, whereas they know nothing will come of their words because of filibustering actions by the system in place. People need to realize that fears exists on both sides. Citizens fear population explosion collapsing the pillars of their known existence: jobs, community, hospitalization and benefits, fears of an unsecured border with terror implications, and some wrongfully so in parts. Undocumented immigrants or illegal immigrants fear deportation and harassment and physical harm, as well as the purgatory of the current naturalization process. I say we all need to look at the reason(s) that their homelands are not as desirable as crossing over and incurring these turmoils, and what can be done about the source, not just the symptoms.
And whether people are from over there or here, there are good, bad, lazy, hardworking, scheming, dreaming, and wonderful people to be found. But no sides should throw blinders over there eyes to uncontrolled population growth. It fosters an atmosphere of xenophobic fear, misunderstanding, unrest, retaliation, and a disrespect of our shared human qualities.
33 - Dave Nalle
That's a big negative tax impact, Dave! As you know, here in Texas, that's the biggest issue there is, budget-wise.
Ah, but here in Texas we also depend largely on our state sales tax for funding, and all illegals pay that and there's no way around it.
Regarding taxes, the assumption seems to be that small private employers aren't withholding taxes, but are instead committing tax fraud. While there is certainly some of that going on, the majority of small business, even very very small business, are withholding taxes from all employees. Most of them might try the tax fraud route to save a few bucks, but their biggest concerns are finding employees to do the work, and watching out for the IRS, by whose hand they will face severe consequences if caught not withholding.
Yom in #25 seems not to get this. The IRS actually doesn't give a rat's ass if you hire illegals so long as you take their withholding and send it on to the IRS. There was a problem at one time with small employers taking withholding from illegals and keeping it and never turning it in, but they got hammered so badly when they got caught that practices like that are pretty rare now.
BTW Phillip, I know you also live in Texas. Do you know any illegals who own property and pay property tax? That's an interesting side issue. We've got neighbors who are illegals and own homes and pay taxes to the state on them. The state doesn't ask for any citizenship info for homeowners. Not sure how they handle mortgages - i suspect they work through surrogates. Of course I've also run into illegals who have credit cards, so clearly there's a way around all of this.
Dave
34 - pedro
31 if you dont see the evidence for 28 u must not live in california
35 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks Dave, after reading this I learned something today.
Solus mei sententia
Jet
36 - Deone
United States is a sovern country with laws that are meant to protect the American people from all forms of invasion.
Mexicans are not American citizens by declaration.
There is a process called immigration.
If that is not followed they are illegal alliens just like any other invader.
People hiring them should lose their business not just pay a fine. They have put us at high risk as has been proven again and again.
Americans are hard working as well and many that could be doing construction work are not working.
Tax paying Americans should have a job. Sorry world but it is their right.
We as Americans are very sympathatic to the plight of other people and have always been so. We would love to help anyone that has a need. That does not translate to ignore our laws and our soverenty or our security.
Go through the process or face the consequences we have an obligation and a right to inforce.
You are not an immigrant or a migrant if you are here otherwise
37 - Michael J. West
Excellent article, Dave. But I found myself thinking that there was a point missing. What about that other myth that the "anti-immigrant ideologues" perpetuate--that there's a Reconquista movement that has real influence and poses a real threat to the infrastructure of the United States?
38 - Jet in Columbus
Puullllllllease Deone, that sounds like one of Bush's worst speeches, or a right-wing republican planform plank.
39 - Xotchil
Nancy,
YOu say,
"So now we've not only got to educate their bastards, we've got to entertain them, too, by building all kinds of youth programs, etc. to keep the little turds out of trouble"
what gives you the right to call their kids bastards? Seems someone else needs educating here.
40 - Dave Nalle
Excellent article, Dave. But I found myself thinking that there was a point missing. What about that other myth that the "anti-immigrant ideologues" perpetuate--that there's a Reconquista movement that has real influence and poses a real threat to the infrastructure of the United States?
That actually passed through my thoughts briefly, but I passed it by to keep the article tight and on point.
Of course the whole 'reconquista' thing is a fraud. It's an idea promoted by tiny political groups here in the US like Mecha, and most immigrants have never heard of those groups or of the idea of 'reconquista'.
I'm not entirely clear on the political goals of the Reconquista movement, but it's a movement of native-born Americans of the far left, not immigrants. It seems like what they want to do is radicalize the mexican-american population to reduce the chance that they will continue to be seduced into the Republican party which has been so supportive of them.
Dave
41 - mschannon
O.k., so I was wrong about the length, sue me, LOL.
There's enough heat generated on this thread to warm the country through winter and tell the Arabs to keep all their oil.
To those who want to send all those miserable, scum-sucking, America-destroying, etc. illegals back, I'd sure love to hear your suggestions about how we're going to round up and deport 10 million people. Now that would be something to see.
In Jameson Veritas
42 - Jet in Columbus
Well, first you get the DEA to donate about half a ton of realllllly good pot.
The you lease the Rosebowl for a really big party which will feature the world's greatest low-rider show...
43 - Dave Nalle
I'm thinking deathcamps, Mark. Line 'em up and march 'em towards the showers. There, problem solved. No more disease ridden mudpeople in our clean, white republic.
Dave
44 - Clavos
Good idea, Dave. We could put a sign above the door saying "Free Welfare benefits and Medical care inside" (in Spanish, of course), and we wouldn't even have to line 'em up.
45 - Dave Nalle
At least, assuming the various nativist commentors here are correct, of course.
That actually reminds me of the warrant roundups they do from time to time where they send people with outstanding warrants notices that they've won a raffle and then arrest them when they show up to collect the prize.
Dave
46 - Clavos
I've lived with and worked with Mexicans of all economic levels more than half my life. The nativists are wrong; the experiences you describe are true.
Reconquista is the brainchild of a very small faction of the La Raza movement, which as you know is a Mexican pride and union promoting organization, among other things. La Reconquista is disavowed by the leadership of La Raza, and I'm not sure if they're even part of it anymore.
Reconquista is dangerous in its ideas, but not in its strength or influence. Mostly, they just make a lot of noise, and are not supported by the vast majority of Mexicans in this country.
47 - fuzzy trig
Mexicans are the lowest of all low life, who ever wrote this couldn't be more wrong. They cost americans money and jobs.
48 - Clavos
A clarification of my #46:
"La Raza" refers to La Raza De Bronze, which is an offshoot of MeCha; I was not referring to the La Raza Unida party, which is defunct, according to all sources I checked.
49 - JustOneMan
Please rename this article "Fake Facts on Illegal Immigration" Here are just a small amount of the cost of ILLEGALs
1. A study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform estimated that in 2004 the annual uncompensated cost of medical care for illegal immigrants in California was $1.4 billion. Total uncompensated educational, health care and incarceration costs were estimated to be 10.5 billion.
2. Research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers.
3. 80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals.
4. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers."
5. $60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S.
6. The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually"enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.9
7. Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.
The list goes on and on....
Legal Immigration is great needed to grow our economy...Illegal immigration is an drain on todays and tomorrows LEGAL Americans,,,
PS In the future please check your facts. Based on that you may have a career with the NY Times or CBS!
50 - Chuck
Well Dave, one only needs to read a couple of your bullet points to realize that you have no idea what you're talking about.
First of all you fail to include any independent research to backup your claim that illegals (not undocumented immigrants) contribute more than they take. Just as a point of information, in California alone over ten billion dollars is spent every year feeding, clothing, housing, schooling, medicating and imprisoning illegals. And I'll tell you what Dave, we're sick of it. We're sick of their arrogance and whining and complaining about being cheated out of their land. And Dave it really pisses us off when they go marching in our streets waving the flag of a country that they apparently couldn’t wait to get out of.
The fact is they lost "their" land long ago to the Spanish hmmm maybe that's why they speak Spanish. If the southwest had remained in their hands most of it would still be an uninhabitable desert. The only reason most of the Latinos come here is because they have allowed their own land to become uninhabitable by choosing leaders who are corrupt and who could care less about them or their families. They don't come here, for the most part, to become Americans
I won't bother to make an extended rebuttal to you're arguments about how much the illegals help America. Let me just say that no one I know is against immigration, that is to say "legal" and controlled immigration for people who want to come to this country to become Americans. Or even people who come here and don't want to become Americans as long as they leave when they’re supposed to. Immigrants should have sponsors. Sponsors should be liable for the immigrants well being. If the sponsor wants to include the immigrants family as part of the sponsorship then the sponsor should provide for the families welfare including schooling health insurance and accommodations.
As a final note Dave can you tell me how an illegal working as a bus boy for six dollars an hour who has a wife and three kids can afford to provide for them without help from the American government? And since, in California at least, it costs upwards of eight thousand dollars a year just to educate one child does it seem to you that this worker is paying his fair share?
51 - JustOneMan
More....
8. Los Angeles, alone, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens. “A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal.”
9.Washington Post
A report that found that illegal immigrants in the United States cost the federal government more than $10 billion a year -- a sum it estimated would almost triple if they were given amnesty -- has drawn criticism from immigration advocacy groups
10. Illegal aliens account for less than 5% of the U.S. adult population, but were 17% of the federal prison population in 2004, imposing a net cost of $1.8 billion in court and incarceration expenses.
Need I say more...
52 - Peter J
Dave, as I read the article I found myself agreeing on most points. The 1 point in particular I question was "84% pay income tax and none of them file a return". Whenever I hired anyone there was an 'I9' form which had to be filled out and filed with the employees application.The 'I9" is required by the IRS but it was strictly enforced by corp.headquarters. The form required a social security # and copy of the SS card with a copy of a state picture ID card or driver lisc. with photo.
or a Green Card with SS card and # plus picture ID
It's been several years and I'm not quite sure of other options but a SS# and card and a picture ID were required no matter what so I would question an illegal being hired by a midsize or large business and paying income taxes or SSI. You're correct when you say that they paid state sales tax. You're also correct when you say that they do not take jobs away from Americans. My company paid above minimum wage and it was difficult to fill jobs with American workers and when I did it was difficult to keep them as they would not show up for work, were constantly late and many times inebriated. When I hired an alien (usually Mexican or Haitian) with a green card they were generally hard workers, always prompt and grateful to have a job. I'm not trying to dis American workers, I'm simply stating my experience. To ship them all out would leave an abundance of jobs that would never be filled.There aren't too many Americans who will work for minimum wage and not everyone is a Lawyer or Bank Pres. This goes into a whole other subject on minimum wage.
People have a tendency to lump all Hispanics as the same.(Mexican, South American, Puerto Rican)
I rarely had problems with Mexicans, didn't encounter too many South Americans and didn't have quality encounters with Puerto Ricans (as employees or customers)These are simply my experiences. As far as legalities I find myself leaning toward Nancy. They broke the law so how can you not punish them. What kind of message does that send? But then, I don't favor laws which create criminals (drugs, prostitution,alcohol) I would rather see the laws re-arranged a bit to accommodate 'customers' at the same time regulated and taxed. Eliminate crime (as with alcohol) and provides state taxes.How bad can that be?
53 - bossing
#47 I hope u don't know any mexicans. this thread is a mix of everything. I know of a family with 2 kids both husband & wife are paying taxes but can't even file for a tax refund because the two children they were raising doesn't hve a ssn#. they don't complain because they know their status but like what was written, Illegals generally come over here to have a better life, not to destroy the US.
just give this a little thought: suppose those who are against the illegals, wake up the next morning in a country, say like Nicaragua or Mexico, stripped of being an American citizen & just happen to be a citizen of that country w/o a job & living in a rural area with 3 kids eating what u just planted last summer, would you be dreaming of a better life too? Would you be thinking of being an ILLEGAL first before feeding the mouths of your family?
please let our humanity prevail over our discrimination. God bless
54 - Tom
As soon as Dave uses the new pro illegal immigration term "Undocumented" or "Immigrant" when referring to illegal immigrants I don't have to read any further to realize he is so far left he over their with the tree huggers and the open borders fanatics. Illegal Alien or Illegal Immigrant has been the legal term for decades. All of a sudden to humanize the issue and sway public opinion pro-illegal immigration advocates decide we need a new term to make the law breakers seem more warm and fuzzy.
The majority of Americans want less immigration, NOT more. Check out any poll on that. The illegal immigration invasion will obviously increase immigration by tens of millions of mostly poor, uneducated, non-English speaking, baby making machine foeigners. They come to this country not because they love our country, it's culture, and it's people. They come for a job, so they can turn around and send half of it back to there own country. They really don't want to be American, although they will take it cause it will help them to eventually bring in all their poor uneducated relatives.
Americans against illegal immigration take offense to changing the terms to suit an agenda that will destroy this country. Use the legal terms Dave or chance losing credibility before you attempt to state your weak, lame, one-sided case.
55 - Clavos
The illegal immigration invasion will obviously increase immigration by tens of millions of mostly poor, uneducated, non-English speaking, baby making machine foeigners. They come to this country not because they love our country, it's culture, and it's people. They come for a job...
That's a literal description of the great immigrant wave of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, from which most of the commentors who are opposed to the ideas set forth in this article are descended. The immigrants in that era also faced the same kinds of hate and discrimination being written here by their descendants.
It's an axiom that the last people in always want to close the door to those coming after them.
56 - Dave Nalle
1. A study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform estimated that in 2004 the annual uncompensated cost of medical care for illegal immigrants in California was $1.4 billion. Total uncompensated educational, health care and incarceration costs were estimated to be 10.5 billion.
Which is a fraction of the estimated $65 billion illegals pay into the Social Security and Medicare system and are not reimbursed for. That money should ultimately be refunded to states to cover this sort of cost, but that's something for the states to take up with the Feds.
2. Research suggests that "between 40 and 50 percent of wage-loss among low-skilled Americans is due to the immigration of low-skilled workers.
What 'research' would that be? Share your source with us, because I've seen actual research and it says nothing like that.
3. 80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals.
A separate issue, but easily solved by legalizing those drugs.
4. The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers."
The report you reference is from 10 years ago, and it's not a fullfledged original study, it's the report of a panel. It also doesn't even reach the conclusions which you represent. The source you're getting this stuff from has a political agenda and is grossly misrepresenting their sources and 'data'.
Let me quote their conclusions on the impact of immigration:
That hardly marches the spin your programmers are putting on the report, does it? It goes on into a lot of detail explaining the benefits of legal and illegal immigration to the tax base and the population and economy in general. Maybe you should go read the study or at least the executive summary.
5. $60 billion dollars are earned by illegal aliens in the U.S. each year. One of Mexico's largest revenue streams (after exports and oil sales) consists of money sent home by legal immigrants and illegal aliens working in the U.S.
Again, your figures are incorrect. Illlegals earn at least 5 times that much every year. That $60 billion figure is just a common figure for how much of their earnings they send back to Mexico.
6. The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually--enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.9
A pretty cheap computer at less than $800, but ok. It's still a fraction of what they're paying in federal taxes. Let the feds reimburse the states for it.
7. Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002.
Ridiculous. Let's see your source for that one. The math doesn't even work right. If they were actually sucking that much out of the economy it would be more like $35 billion a year. But since they aren't, the point is moot.
The list goes on and on....
The list of unsubstantiated and incorrect pseudofact...
Legal Immigration is great needed to grow our economy...Illegal immigration is an drain on todays and tomorrows LEGAL Americans,,,
8. Los Angeles, alone, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens. "A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal."
If it's a 'confidential' report, howcome you have access to it? Perhaps you could give us all access to it? In point of fact this is an urban legend. All of these facts are untrue. They come fro one of several emails circulated on the internet in which the 'facts' are either completely made up, or misrepresented. To make it worse, some of these spurious bits of misinformation were 'legitimized' by being quoted in some testimony infront of a congressional committee. But if you do the work you won't find a valid original source for any of them. For an analysis of this set of urban legends see snopes.com
9.Washington Post
A report that found that illegal immigrants in the United States cost the federal government more than $10 billion a year -- a sum it estimated would almost triple if they were given amnesty -- has drawn criticism from immigration advocacy groups
No, the Washington Post article to which you refer doesn't support that theory, to the contrary it disputes a politically biased report from the Center for Immigration Studies and basically debunks the report and shows how it is incorrect.
10. Illegal aliens account for less than 5% of the U.S. adult population, but were 17% of the federal prison population in 2004, imposing a net cost of $1.8 billion in court and incarceration expenses.
Again, incorrect. That figure is for ALL immigrants, not illegal aliens. In fact, most of those immigrants in prison are legal and the majority of them are not Mexican.
You, my friend, have been fed a whole bunch of bull by the anti-immigration disinformation machine.
Dave
57 - Dave Nalle
As soon as Dave uses the new pro illegal immigration term "Undocumented" or "Immigrant" when referring to illegal immigrants I don't have to read any further to realize he is so far left he over their with the tree huggers and the open borders fanatics.
I need to keep this quote on file to trot out against the endless accusations that I'm a right-wing troglodyte.
BTW, in the article I tried to balance the language. I referred to them as 'undocumented' 6 times and as 'illegal' 10 times. Just so you know.
The majority of Americans want less immigration, NOT more. Check out any poll on that.
Sure, and as I point out in the article, if we had a guest worker program about 80% of the current and future illegals would use that. Are you against cutting illegal immigration by 80%? That seems like progress to me.
The illegal immigration invasion will obviously increase immigration by tens of millions of mostly poor, uneducated, non-English speaking, baby making machine foeigners.
You didn't even READ the article, did you?
Dave
58 - Dave Nalle
As a final note Dave can you tell me how an illegal working as a bus boy for six dollars an hour who has a wife and three kids can afford to provide for them without help from the American government?
Absolutely. Even assuming he gets no tips to increase his salary, $6 an hour is enough to live on if you live like a person from the third world, which most illegals do. You'll live in an apartment or other housing shared with relatives, including multiple workers. All the men will work and about half the women will. The remaining women will take care of the kids. Plus there will be substantially more men than women, since about 2/3 of the illegals from Mexico are unmarried men. So you have a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 couples and likely 2 additional unmarried men living in it. That's 5 workers sharing $1000 in rent and utilities. With the type of food they eat, combined with buying as a group and in bulk food runs about $500 a month to feed 6 adults and 4 kids. They share one vehicle - the classic beat up old pickup - which costs them $500 a month in gas and maintenance. So we're talking $2000 a month in expenses for 10 of them. They've got 5 workers earning $6 an hour (realisitically they'll actually be averaging $10 an hour, but you wanted $6), so that's $5200 a month. $1000 of that goes to federal taxes. On average $300 of it goes to local taxes per month. So after expenses they still have $2900 in spending money per month as a group. Some of that goes back to Mexico, some is spent on clothing and entertainment, some goes to medical expenses.
The point being that if you live frugally and communally you can get by on a LOT less than we pampered Americans are used to. I lived for 4 years on the equivalent of $6 an hour and didn't suffer, and I wasn't nearly as frugal as Mexican immigrants can be.
And since, in California at least, it costs upwards of eight thousand dollars a year just to educate one child does it seem to you that this worker is paying his fair share?
Let's see, communally the group I mentioned would pay $16,000 a year in state, local and federal taxes. That's enough to cover 2 kids, anyway.
Dave
59 - wendy
July 14th " July 16th 2006 I traveled to Biloxi Mississippi to visit my Aunt & Uncle who have lived there for over 30 years. Devastation, disaster still everywhere almost a year later. Everything is gone. Yes some things survived but over all from Mississippi to Louisiana, WIPED OUT!
But, it is amazing to see the people come together and rebuild.
As I drove along the coast I realized a staggering majority of the people rebuilding the destroyed properties were Mexican. I spoke to many people about this and I found out the Mexican workers only get paid 5.00 dollars an hour. Most construction companies get a crew of Mexican workers to work for 5.00 dollars an hour and then at the end of the month pay nothing for their hard work. Get rid of them and get a new crew.
I also witnessed a Mexican worker having a heat stroke he wouldn’t go to the hospital; I assumed he was an illegal alien and didn’t want to be recognized. Whatever the situation was the working conditions are unbearable, life threatening because of the heat. The conditions these Mexican people have to work under to rebuild America are unfair.
I personally thank each and every Mexican worker that is rebuilding my state Louisiana and my neighboring state Mississippi. I can only pray the Mexican Workers of the U.S.A. will be paid very well for their work and that they receive health care should they get hurt on the job.
Wendy DuBose
New Iberia, LA
60 - lori
The illegal immigration invasion will obviously increase immigration by tens of millions of mostly poor, uneducated, non-English speaking, baby making machine foeigners.
Boy, take out the 'non-English speaking' and you'd be talking about the Irish.
A big thank you to great-grandma and great-grandpa for being poor enough to want to come here and make some babies and give them a better life.
61 - Maurice
Dave
great writing as usual (huge sigh). I hate this topic because typically there are so many anecdotal examples of how great/evil our Mexican neighbors are.
I will relay my own examples briefly. First the Pro. I have a very close friend that is Hispanic. His parents are legal but his grandparents are not. All of the family work hard and are outstanding people. I couldn't ask for a better friend and I am glad his grandparents came here.
Now the Con. My parents lived in Caldwell ID for 6 years and finally decided to leave because of the gang activity. My Dad (70 year old) was going on his daily walk when a car pulled up and a hispanic kid took a shot at him. Might have been some sort of initiation. Whatever. Caldwell is a Hispanic run town with a Hispanic mayor and lots of shootings.
I don't know what the answer is but I don't believe it is as rosey as you postulate.
62 - Dave Nalle
It's shameful when the unscrupulous use their status to take advantage of vulnerable illegals. Yet another reason why we need to do something about this situation.
I echo your observations about the Mexican workforce and their honestty and dedication to a work ethic.
Dave
63 - Dave Nalle
Amazing to hear about hispanic gangs in Idaho of all places. Key question - are the immigrants there Mexican or of a different national origin?
Dave
64 - Maurice
Believe it or not Idaho is a great place to live. We have a huge Hispanic population in Caldwell and Nampa because of the farming industry and cheap land (used to be cheap).
The older people are great. A lot of the kids are not so nice.
65 - Dave Nalle
I'm sure Idaho has much to recommend it, but I'd always heard it was the last outpost of white America. It surprised me to hear there was a hispanically dominated town.
Dave
66 - Victor Plenty
Get with the times, Dave. Haven't you seen Napoleon Dynamite yet?
67 - Dave Nalle
Is ND set in Idaho? I had no idea despite having seen it.
Dave
68 - Apotheosis
why do you put cubans in your list of criminals?
cubans are less involved in crime than mexicans
and this despite the marielito influx of the 80's
widen your research scope a little - you're too far from cubans in austin to be sloppy here
69 - Apotheosis
Nalle is Finnish for Teddy Bear
LOL
70 - Maurice
Dave,
There used to be an Aryan Nations compound in northern Idaho. This was closed down some years ago but I think it made the national news a couple of times and that may be what you are thinking of.
Since Idaho is so rural many Hispanics were drawn here by the abundance of work. Now they are several generations deep and are a firm part of of our community. Most construction laborers and repairmen are Hispanic.
I don't really know why we have such a problem in Caldwell but there are very few non-Hispanics living there.
Here is a link to the latest shooting from:idahopress.com
71 - JustOneMan
Dave,
Again you are beefing up your resume for the NYT or CBS. Amazing how much fact checking you did on the sources that I have quoted...but in your own article you name only one source...which is a left wing pro illegal immigration group...
Here one fact that you cannot argue with...I live in the Socialist state of New Jersey I pay over $900 month for family health insurance for some crapy HMO...the ILLEGAL immigrants in town get free healthcare - no copays of deductible with free dental care ----
Again legal is OK illegal is wrong...
72 - Nancy
Idaho ... that's a gorgeous corner of the country, Maurice, but I hear it's brutal in winter.
I can speak with considerable authority about illegals & payroll taxes because I recently finished up 8 years with the IRS, mainly shutting down businesses that were cheating on their payroll taxes.
Almost THREE-QUARTERS of small businesses (& by that I mean those with gross incomes under $1 mill a year) are beset with cash flow problems, which they offset by using employment taxes (if they bother to withhold at all), or by hiring illegals, in which case they don't bother. They certainly are not filing & sending in either the tax returns or the withholdings, IF there are any, which most of the time there are not. This rate of non-filing/withholding/paying rises to OVER 90% when you are dealing with farm and/or household workers. So no, the bulk of illegals are NOT paying any kind of state or federal income, social security, or unemployment tax. Texas uses the sales tax to net everyone right at the cash register, which may be about the only way to ensure everyone pays their fair share, but that's a state tax & I'm not sure how they pay into the federal share, if at all.
Another comment above also raises this: with the influx of illegals has come a rapid & marked increase in diseases we haven't seen much in the US such as typhoid, TB, polio, and several others. Illegals, in addition to creating their good lives by stealing from legitimate, legal immigrants & citizens, literally endangering the lives & health of the US population.
As for how to get rid of them, that's easy: start actually rounding them up & deporting them. Start in places like Dalton, GA where hordes of them are employed by the big carpet mfgrs. Empower local & state police to hold & refer individuals arrested for other reasons to federal facilities for deportation. Start one by one, but at least START, goddamn it. And then enforce it. And if they come sneaking back in, if we have to, mark them & make the penalties too harsh to make it worthwhile to come back. We have the technical capabilities of IDing individuals thru iris- & brainwave traits; if we don't want to use it for a national ID system (& I personally think we should; it's going to happen anyway) then use it to 'mark' illegals & keep tabs on those coming in thru our borders. Maybe a good penalty would be automatic sterilization of anyone caught here illegally a 2nd or 3rd time. That should deter them, especially as they're from a machismo culture. Build the damned wall along the Mexican border; if the Mexican government is going to keep encouraging the exportation of its lowest & most ignorant level of population to the US, then get harsh w/the Mexican government; and yes, get harsh with those who aid & abet illegals, as well as those who employ them. In tandem with a good guestworker program - an ENFORCED guestworker program - we just might be able to get a grip on this, IF we start, and IF we stop wringing our hands & whining about 'how are we going to get rid of 12 million illegals?'. We start with whatever we can, and we start now. At least it's a start.
73 - Maurice
Thomas Sowell echoes my thoughts pretty closely here:creators.com
I am probably more open than him. I just think we need to keep track of who is coming in.
74 - Diz
I'd like to see some of you who staunchly oppose any plan that doesn't involve lining illegals up and shooting them come up with something better.
As the old saying goes, put up or shut up.
Not one of you manage to address the point that deporting all of the illegals, aside from the fact that it is impossible, will destroy businesses from the jobs that are left empty. What, you expect your cousin billy who was fired from his last job for being a worthless piece of shit to take over?
So what do you guys propose?
75 - Carol
Great article. I agree with Clavos in #55 that this is another example of history repeating itself. It's sad that we have to keep repeating the ugly racist parts of American history. I guess that's human nature.
The Hispanic community in Indianapolis is very hardworking and do not contribute to crime. I love our hispanic friends and they should be treated them like human beings, not "vermin."
In fact I married a Mexican, (who entered legally and now has a green card). I love him and his culture so much, I feel incredibly blessed to now be a part of it.
Thanks again for posting Dave!