Those who favor unrealistic border security schemes are either ignorant of the facts or pursuing an agenda other than solving the immigration problem.
The fun thing about the immigration debate is that it never goes away. I started writing on the topic a year ago, firmly convinced that it was a vital issue to address because we might have a new immigration policy at any moment. Now I realize that I can keep writing on it forever, because the anti-immigration ideologues will never come to their senses. So we'll never get any kind of immigration policy passed, and bloggers and pundits can feel free to enjoy the topic forever.…
Article comments
676 - Cindy D
grrrrrrrrrrrr
677 - Cindy D
Glenn,
Sorry, maybe I was being unclear.
There should not be "illegal" immigrants. End of problem.
678 - Cindy D
Here Glenn,
If you are interested: Immigration Flood Unleashed by NAFTA's Disastrous Impact on Mexican Economy
679 - Clavos
The Border Patrol reports that the flood of border crossings has slowed noticeably since our economy began to contract.
Ironically, this is resulting in an even steeper decline in Mexico's economy, as the remesas (remittances) from the US have tapered down. Too, many of the former "illegals" are returning home, putting even more burden on the Mexican economy.
As long as there is a great disparity between wages in LatAm and wages in America, there will be illegal border crossings, even if we fence in the entire country (which would be astronomically expensive).
A fence won't stop the drug traffic, either. The LatAm druglords are some of the most astute and nimble business men in the world; they are already shipping far more drugs by sea and air than by land. If a fence were to be built, they'd be able to adjust with no significant loss of revenue.
In Mexico, we say the ONLY thing that will stop the drug traffic for certain is to eliminate the demand. Anything less will not work, as somebody will always be ready to fill the demand.
680 - Cindy D
Clav,
I've been reading about the immigrants leaving. That article is from 2006.
Thanks for that clarification.
681 - Glenn Contrarian
Clavos -
I know they ship a lot through air and sea, which was why I had said that a tight radar screen along all our coasts must be part of any solution. The way things are going now, we'd have to add passive sonar to that solution because of the subs and semi-submersibles they're using.
But your comment mirrored mine in that as long as our economy's better than theirs, the illegal immigrants will come. That's a fact between any two countries with strong disparities in their respective standard of living.
682 - Cindy D
And personally Glenn,
I'd rather live in a community with just about any immigrant population, than live in Jumping Fox Hollow or We Wish We Were British Royalty Acres.
Though, I don't think they'd use "acres", then they'd sound like farmers.
683 - Cindy D
I say, let them all come. Export all the people who don't like them.
684 - Dave Nalle
If you are interested: Immigration Flood Unleashed by NAFTA's Disastrous Impact on Mexican Economy
Cindy, if you link to Common Dreams you ought to know that anything you read there is likely to be utter bullshit. Worse, it's partisan bullshit promoting a specific political agenda.
The article you link to is a great example. It's pure supposition. The actual data suggests that NAFTA's influence has been primarily to increase wages and job opportunities in Mexico, which ought to have the effect of reducing illegal immigration, if anything. Plus, since the recent economic troubles in the US and the rise in unemployment here, there's been a measurable drop-off in illegal border crossings, again counter to what the article suggests, though it sort of predates that trend.
What's fascinating about NAFTA is that you will find people on the left writing articles like this saying that NAFTA is destroying Mexico and people on the right saying that NAFTA is destroying America, and both are equally wrong. The only way to stop illegal immigration is to improve the Mexican economy and make people want to stay there because there are jobs with decent pay. NAFTA has the potential to make that happen. Similarly, it's an unpleasant truth that the US economy needs to be realigned on a more realistic basis. Wages and prices both need to be brought down here in the US to strengthen the economy, but it needs to happen in tandem so that it doesn't negatively impact consumers. NAFTA is a step towards making that happen.
Dave
685 - Cindy D
Dave,
Your mailbox is full, I guess. I will be in Philadelphia all day tomorrow with no computer.
I wanted to change a word in my article but it told me not to edit it.
I was wondering if you need me to do anything else, I didn't see any secondary category box, for example.
686 - Dave Nalle
Pretty sure my mailbox isn't full. Did an email bounce back to you?
I'm working on the article now. If you emailed me a change I'll take care of it.
Dave
687 - Cindy D
Yes, it bounced.
I can't email the change.
1st para change "their government to "the government"
688 - Cindy D
that's it thx
689 - Cindy D
I guess the email went thru.
690 - Dustin
You have to be issued a social security card to fill out a w-2 or w-4. So how then would they pay income tax? Does the employer know exactly how much to take out of his cash wages and then delivers it directly to the IRS and state?
[personal attack deleted] Nice to think of yourself as leading the charge for debates on immigration policy huh [personal attack deleted].
691 - Dustin
Is this one of your so called benefits of illegal immigration?
Not to mention the Drug war that is spilling into Texas, Arizona, and I'm sure soon to be California.
But I'm sure your unrelenting pride will set aside real facts and let you proclaim new made up facts on your stupid little blog.
692 - Dr Dreadful
I dunno, Dustin.
Is this one of the benefits of the US invasion of Iraq?
693 - Dave Nalle
Dustin, they use false SS numbers and cards so the money taken out of their salary for SS and tax withholding goes to the government and is then never paid back out to them.
And if we end the war on drugs and open up a route for legal guest workers most of the problems you cite on the border would vanish very quickly.
Dave
694 - Nikki
I would just like to say that I am currently typing up a paper for a class, and I am very much enjoying all the different points of views from everyone.
One point that I would just like to say to stick up for Nancy in her regards, is that I was brought up on Long Island, in a pretty decent area. I remember in middle school and high school we were constantly having things taken away from us due to budget's not passing and all of the above. Now, why is it fair that after school programs and sports were being taken away from us when over in Brentwood they have one of the nicest High school building I have ever seen. Now, for the past year and a half I lived in Brentwood and I know that most of the kids that go to Brentwood HS are the children of illegals, and how is that fair that while I was growing up all these things were taken away from me, but the children of illegal immigrants are handed a beautiful high school along with all these great academic programs. I also don't agree with the fact that when I walk into a store mostly everything is Spanish, and now the English-speaking AMERICAN must learn how to speak a new language in order to purchase an item, or even to get a job.
695 - Denise
DAVE!!!!!! YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! FORGET WHAT ANYONE SAYS!!!!
696 - Cindy
a bug, if anyone sees this message. when you hit last page it goes to page 35. (course that's maybe 30 more pages than exist) :-)
697 - Cindy
LOL Help! I'm lost!!!!! Where the hell is the last page! ROFL!!~!!~!!!
698 - Cindy
Oh heck with it. I'll just go watch Benjamin Buttons instead.
699 - Dr Dreadful
@ #699:
You mean, put all the white folks on treadmills and hook 'em up to generators? Very green. Kudos.
@ #700:
Don't you be dissin' my Auntie Gay!
700 - unsatisfied
pritty pathetic!!!!
Get some better info girl!!!!!
701 - Bo Jangles
Those without citizenship are not entitled to the Bill of Rights.
702 - jennifer
I think you guys are definetely drinking the kool-aid on illegal immigration. It is not right to come here illegally, that is why we have immigration laws. Is the system flawed, surely it is, it is run by the government. Our schools and hospital system cannot keep offering services to those who do not pay into it, legal or illegal citizens. What the United States government should be asking is why so many illegal immigrants want to come to work here, rather than stay where they are. Of course, according to you...Dave, they are very happy. When one is exceedingly happy where they are at, a general rule follows..they do not leave. They come here because they feel there is an opportunity to live the American Dream, something they feel they cannot achieve where they come from, otherwise they would never leave their home country. I feel anyone from any country should be able to try to live the American Dream...legally.
703 - Laura
It would make sense if we deported the most illegal immigrants first. Keep the smaller numbers of illegal in our country. Lets start off with Mexico. Read this!
According to Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005 57% illegal immigrants were from Mexico,24% were from Latin America,9$ were from Asia,6% were from Europe and Canada, and 4% were from the rest of the world.
These Mexican illegal immigrants are runing our country. The large cases of idenity theft and no wage expenses are weaking our American dollar. The majority of illegal immigrants are being paid cash underneath the table. It saves the greedy corporations and politicans money by hiring them illegal immigrants.
While the illegal immigrants getting paid in cash the company doesn't have to pay for there visa,wages,benefits or income tax. The other 2% are picking crops. Therefore scamming the system out billions dollars while Amercian suffer for their greed.
In 2003, $12 billion dollars were sent to Mexico from Mexican workers in the United States to their families in Mexico. Not one penny was tax! That $12 billions dollars could gone back into our economy and created jobs.
It cost Americans tax payers $1700 for each rest of illegal immigrant. (www.freetrade.org/node/32)
The Mexican president Felipe Calderon won't take his people back because it is revenue for his country. He refuses to reform the immigration law in Mexico to work with our legal laws.
It is costing us Americans billions of dollars for idenity theft,jailing them for senless crimes,social services and health cost. While were taking care of illegal Mexicans were taking care of own people.
Just imagne how much it cost to train,educate,and put America back on its feet. The welfare of our own people is at rick of being a third world country.
Illegal immigrants are criminals,they broke the law knowingly and that shows no respect for America. (Edwin S. Rubenst editor for Forbes magazine 2006)
This is not a racial issue. It is an economic one. We don't have the space or the money, so get out of our country.
704 - Curtis
Illegal Immigration doe snot in fact increase taxes!
705 - Evan
well... im only 14, but i am doing a speach on this topic and i find that illegals only mess up the country, sure what Nacie is saying is wrong but people like dave really need to take into considoration the dromatic effect that they inflict on this country. For example my brother was un-imployed for a couple months and could not get a job because employers were bias towards him because if they did employ him they would need to pay taxes on him, but why do that when you can hire a mexican who will work and not need taxes to be paid on them, i understand were they are comming from on both side but my opinion is that the amarican employers will most likely take the easy way out and em[ploy the people that can make them the most money. i know im a kid and i dont know very much on this topic, but this is what i think after reading your guy's blog
706 - Elizabeth
I Think immigrants make up the whole United States. With out them noone would want to take any low-wage jobs. As we Know students who do not have a ssn do not ge t any grants.. so there is no free education!! Many people I know Have been struggling for money... because they are not able to apply for FAFSA. Also, regarding medical..it is not free because they still have to pay!!! even a co pay....
707 - Elizabeth
I would also like to add how people write that illegal immigrants are not entitled "bill of rights" or refer to them as "bastards" why would we refer to humanity like that? Then in any case all of us would be bastards because I am pretty sure some of your ancestors were illgal immigrants.. do we now own United States for us to be using derrogatory language?>Who in the world are we to judge anyone? What if you were in the same case and would have to go to another country that is doing better then your for the own good of your family? you would do it. so people stop being greedy and learn to share. Because trust me there is some American born citizens any race who are out in the stresst gangbanging, and doing anything that is positive to the country. why not kick them out? So instead of people talking go do some research on how people stuggle. Finally, If anyone who does not illegal immigrants should stop shopping and eating at places where you know they are working..if it bothers you so much stop consuming. lets see how you survive...eeesh...