Ron Paul supporters continue to push their candidate and their issues, but hostility and frustration within the GOP is growing.
Beneath the still surface of the apparently secure nomination of John McCain as the Republican candidate, supporters of Ron Paul are still fighting the system and doing what they can to influence the process. It appears to be an uphill battle, with many of their efforts devolving into little more than delaying tactics and spreading chaos, and in many cases generating a hostile backlash from the party establishment which is harming efforts to move the party in a more pro-liberty direction.…
Article comments
276 - Dave Nalle
Pablo, I do what I do out of a desire to make this country better and more free stop the spread of destructive disinformation. You choose to side with those whose ideology of lies and hate can only lead to authoritarianism despite their false lipservice to liberty.
Dave
277 - Kyle
Bahahaha... he's pulling the A&E911 crap. That site lists any random freshman physics student, wingnut tenured professor, or flat out FICTIONAL CHARACTER that someone submits. There's a hilarious video on YouTube where someone shows how they signed up "Mike Rotch" by making up a bunch of credentials and sending in a pic of a Holocaust denier.
Rest assures for every architect or engineer who thinks 9/11 was an inside job, there are 100 who know it's not.
278 - Kyle
Oh you mean people such as Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga? Or maybe former Defense Minister of Germany Andreas von Bulow? Or perhaps Arizona State Senator Karen Johnson, who publicly before the Arizona State Senate only last week called for a new investigation on 9/11.
Did you mean those kind of reasonable people dear?
Perhaps you were referring to former CIA employee Ray McGovern, or perhaps you meant member of the Japanese Diet Yukihisa Fujita who has publicly come out in Japan questioning who was behind 9/11.
Or maybe you were referring to the father of Reaganomics former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts?
LOL
First of all, when a Troofer lists a high profile person who "agrees" with them, often they focus on a specific segment of a quote which seems to indicate agreement, when in fact the person in question completely rejects the 9/11 nuttery. In the rare case that the person does think something is up, they really have no factual basis to go on.
Now, second, and most importantly: What relevant expertise do any of these people have to make their opinion more valid than those who have actually studied the 9/11 attacks and/or spent time at ground zero?!
279 - Dave Nalle
Or you could just read this book and avoid critical brain damage.
Dave
280 - Pablo
Dave,
That was almost funny! And ummm tell me Davey who is it that I hate?
As far as authoritarianism, take a good hard look around ya bubba. From puttin motion and face recognition cameras everywhere, drones that fly over cities, to locking citizens up without due process, to torturing human beings, to attempting to get rid of habeas corpus, to havin to pee in a bottle to get a job washin dishes to prove to the state your blood is pure enough, to warrentless wiretaps, and granting immunity to companies that break the law. Yeah bubba, tell me all about it.
Freedom my ass davey, and your one of the main disinformation guys on this site. You have never fooled me for one second brother. Its a family affair aint it bucko? Sure it is.
If you dont like what I say, dont respond, oh but you cant help yourself can ya? No you can't. False lip service to liberty, you bet you are.
281 - Dave Nalle
For what it's worth, Kyle, Paul Craig Roberts actually does seem to support the truthers. He apparently went off his nut in the late 90s and seems to have basically become a Bircher. He's got a variety of loony ideas. 9/11 conspiracies are just the beginning of his craziness.
Dave
282 - Pablo
Davey,
I see your throwin out Popular Yellow Journalism again. Publisher: Hearst (August 15, 2006)
Nooooooooo they dont work for the CIA........hehehehe, just like you dont bubba or your mom.
Gimme a break, and with Chertoff's cousin too! One big happy totalitarian family....sure davey, im waitin for you to quote Daniel Pipes again hahaha.
Your amazing, but I will tell you this bubba, I am smarter than you, more well read than you, and infinitely more of a caring, decent, honest man than you will ever be. Have a nice day mr Cia man.
283 - Pablo
Oh by the way regarding Mr. Daniel Pipes. I sent him an email recently because he called Jeff Rense a neo nazi. Now being the nazi HATER That I am, and an avid fan of his, I challenged Mr. Pipes to show me anywhere where Mr. Rense in any way endorsed national socialism (nazi). Sure he has some guys on there that question whether or not 6 million jews were killed. I have no opinion one way or another on that, however I am very well read on the subject of Nazis, and find them particularly evil. He smeared the man plain and simple. I also challenge YOU davey boy or your side kick clavy to show me ONE instance on rense.com's site where in any way whatsoever he EVER condoned, respected, admired, or liked Adolph Hitler. He is constantly against fascism, and totalitarisanism in ANY of its forms whether on the left (communism) or on the right (fascism). I left the message on his blog, of course it is moderated, and I told him, that if he did not publish my comment, which I knew he would not, that it was enough proof for me as to what kind of a man he is. SMEAR. Your very similar bubba, you smear every chance you get. I will NEVER stop speaking my mind, and I could give a good god damned what you think about anything. I hope I make myself clear Davey. Oh and by the way, one small caveat.
I recently exposed the fact on here publicly that my daughter was brutally murdered, and left in a shallow grave for 12 long years. Yes I did notice who offered condolences, and you and Clavy boy showed me just how much you care about others. YES YOU DID. Thank you for showing me your stuff davey boy, and that goes for you too Clavy.
284 - Matthew T. Sussman
"Sure he has some guys on there that question whether or not 6 million jews were killed. I have no opinion one way or another on that..."
Interesting.
285 - STM
I reckon in the course of my work I saw a total of about 5000 pictures taken on 9/11 and during the weeks following that documented quite explicitly the nature of what had happened.
Anyone who actually saw all that (or in reality even just saw what happened on the day and in the aftermath, beamed into our lounge rooms/offices in all its gory detail) will be in no doubt that the information released by government and law enforcement agencies in relation to 9/11 is accurate down to the minutest detail.
Apart from the fact that al-Qaeda claimed credit for the attack and any cover-up on this scale would be almost impossible to keep secret, the key issue for me as a piece of evidence here is both compelling and a no-brainer.
If it was a stooge-up (and seriously, the US government is not going to kill thousands of its own citizens and knock down iconic skyscrapers and the world's biggest defence building - its own - just to stage an excuse to go to war), why is virtually every government around the world now spending billions of dollars they'd rather not be spending on huge airport/airline security operations??
Any travellers among you would know exactly what I mean. Including you Pablo - Bangkok is pretty heavy going these days. But the security checks I saw at Frankfurt and Lisbon and the extremely heavy presence of state police and very heavily armed Gurkha police at Singapore airport last year was pretty convincing stuff, let me tell you.
That's the trouble with the troofers' mad claims.
When you look at this in its entirety, those claims simply don't make sense on any kind of rational level.
Was the US administration culpable though?
Yes, but only to the extent that a) they didn't think it could happen and b) US foreign policy and the administration's unwillingness to talk with (or be more sensitive to some of the claims of) arab states and terrorist organisations might have led to a lot of anger towards the US in certain parts of the world.
(It's worth noting here that many Americans are sub-consciously very isolationist and Amero-centric in their world view, including even many well-informed Americans, and the bulk therefore don't really understand why this is so.)
Talking can achieve plenty, no matter how you feel about those you're talking to, especially if you want to break the impasse: witness the IRA disarmament and Britain's decision to negotiate directly with "terrorists".
Truth is, it's really important that we don't look at these things only from our own perspective - as one man's terrorist really is another's freedom fighter, even when we don't believe that to be the case.
So does that excuse what they did then?
No, but it does go some way to explaining why they did it.
286 - Kyle
Pablo: Michael and Ben Chertoff are not cousins, and even if they were... so what?
As for that book, I find it to be a rather parochial look at the issue anyway. The best material is the compiled work of Mark Roberts, who has absolutely encyclopedic knowledge of the 9/11 attacks. His material is archived here.
Ryan Mackey is another really good source as well, and is also very knowledgeable about the events. They used to frequent the JREF forums - not sure if they are still around. Those forums are probably the best source of information about the attacks that I have come across.
287 - Pablo
Does that make him a nazi Matthew? It may make him in your mind wrong, but that is not an endorsement of national socialism. I make the same challenge to you. Perhaps you like the laws that they have in Canada and parts of Europe, where it is against the law to question official history. I call that totalitarian and wrong. If a guy wants to write that girls with bobby sox on rule the world, or were responsible for torture in another decade, more power to em. I call that freedom of speech, and there is NO official history, if there is we are all in deeper trouble than I thought.
What makes a person a nazi, or a racist, is saying so. I stand by rense. He has never endorsed totalitarianism in any of its virulent forms, I cannot say the same of DAVE NALLE. Just my two sense worth guy.
Daniel Pipes is a phony, and a guy who smears a good man's name, and he is not man enough to admit it. Kind of like a guy in the KKK saying there are no racists in the organization, Daniel Pipes saying there is no conspiracies, and being a lifetime member of the CFR. Sure.
It does not surprise me that Dave likes him, not one bit, and it should not surprise you that I can't stand Pipes.
288 - Pablo
"Because the manager of public relations for Popular Mechanics didn't respond to repeated calls from American Free Press, I called Benjamin Chertoff, the magazine's "senior researcher," directly.
Chertoff said he was the "senior researcher" of the piece. When asked if he was related to Michael Chertoff, he said, "I don't know." Clearly uncomfortable about discussing the matter further, he told me that all questions about the article should be put to the publicist - the one who never answers the phone.
Benjamin's mother in Pelham, New York, however, was more willing to talk. Asked if Benjamin was related to the new Secretary of Homeland Security, Judy said, "Yes, of course, he is a cousin."
Christopher Bollyn
[Edited]
I never did get your opinon or comment on Orin Hatch Kylie, I sure am interested in what you think of him. Also nobody commented on his excellent rant about 9/11 truthers on the floor of the US Senate yesterday. That was rich!
Also no one commented on Michael Reagan openly calling for the murder of a 9/11 truther on his radio show recently. Do you guys support that? If not why not condemn it? Openly calling for killing someone on national radio, that has a different OPINION than he does. Any of the mainstream media report on it? HMMMM I wonder why not? Not a story? Oh yeah but Imus was. Sureeeeeeee
Someone is gettin scared out there, and guess what? It aint me!
289 - Pablo
STM
"If it was a stooge-up (and seriously, the US government is not going to kill thousands of its own citizens and knock down iconic skyscrapers and the world's biggest defence building - its own - just to stage an excuse to go to war)"
No FDR didnt know about Pearl Harbor before did he? He didnt sacrifice over 2000 innocent american boys to go to war did he. No The Gulf of Tonkin wasnt staged was it? NOOOOOOOOOO the US government would never sacrifice its blood now would it? Just ask the 3,000 some odd souls and hundreds of thousands of boys that have been maimed for NOTHING. Sure STM. The FACT is that MANY wars and instances of provocation have been induced and staged, domestically as well as internationally. Do I believe there is a Moslem radical terrorist movement? YOU bet I do, I just happen to BELIEVE that it has been cultivated by US and British Intelligence agencies. That is MY opinion, I dont know it to be a fact, I am not an intelligent agent. Ask Dave, maybe he knows. smirk
My opinion is that FEAR is the best way to motivate people politically particularly against their own interests, being freedom. I think people such as Cheney, and Rumsfeldt, and the drug runner Armitage, their currency is fear. You get people scared they give up their rights. What is so hard to understand about that???? Tell me STM I am all ears
290 - Pablo
Oh and for the record fellas. I dont care if a plane or a missle or a cherry bomb hit the pentagon. I dont care if the planes with Osamas boys inside caused those towers to fall, I still BELIEVE regardless of those particulars that it was an inside job. If they come out tomorrow and show a 60 second clip of a plane flying directly into the pentagon, (as opposed to the 1/4 second clip we were shown on national tv, that showed zilch, and they said here this proves it now!) I still think that the neo-cons planned it and carried it out, particularly with their reference to a new pearl harbor in the PNAC document.
Thats my opinion thats all. You dont have to agree with me or respond, but you keep on responding, so I will keep on writing in response to your comments. Just ignore me, I am harmless. Davey cant help himself, either because he is on the payroll, or trying to be. I will stand and defend my beliefs as long as I have air to breathe. I do not say they are the truth, it is simply what I believe.
291 - steve
hello dave ive responded to this game numerous times. THIS IS ALL THAT MATTERS SIR NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RATINGS ARE ETC===you need to be consumed by this if your interested in holding on to your wealth as dr. paul has spoken the god honest truth for years and he has just squeazzed the noose a little more dave i dont give a rats ass about any of your feeble comebacks about spelling etc as what a lame excuse as that is the usual comeback to deflect from the facts the situation is facts and more facts as dr. paul keeps hammering the same message home day after day week after week year after year your lame excuses are not an issue as your a non issue sir here is whats matters most endless devalued dollar situations sir vaporizzzzed stock market i mean he called it years ago what more does it take??? as i shorted the nyse and made a wadddddddddd due to the no brainer actions of george w. bush===i know ya know its no brainer i hope ya have that much logic [personal attack deleted] as you are a logical thinking katttt i hope my question is very simple to you, do ya like where your country has taken ya???????????? do ya enjoy your civil libertys being raped from ya is there anybody else that has a clue running for the prez??? dave its beyond beating ron paul into the ground as the situation is starting to crumble for the neo con punks as the good dr has exposed their game as just check your next food bill [personal attack deleted]!!!! game over sir ron has em by the balls and speaks the truth===spin it anyway ya want to on this man as he is no doubt the 2nd coming no matter how ya want to dismiss it i mean dave how can ya even go to the other side of festering i mean are ya not concerned for the future of your children as i have 2 and this god forsaken situation we are in IS SOMETHING YOU LIKE?????????????? [personal attack deleted] anyhow enjoy filling up your fuel tank and get to liking your food prices like having less money at the end of the week enjoy catch ya on the rebound dude as you have no logic!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as ya refuse to see the logic of the good dr. paul as how could this honest man hurt us as at least he could get the rudder in the right direction sir im not saying all would be right but hope ya enjoy the choices left as what a bought and paid for bunch of spewwage puppets later red
292 - Pablo
Might I be wrong? Sure I might be wrong. However the Bush Junta has only itself to blame. The put Bill Clinton under oath to testify about a sperm stain, yet when this nation is under attack, even in Executive Session the prez and his side kick wont take an oath, not only that they HAVE to testify together. Sure, and I was born yesterday. Try that with the cops. From originally not wanting a commission, then naming Dr. Strangelove, to a CFR packed commission. To Condi Rice coming on national tv days after the attack saying "ohhhhh we never imagined that terrorists would EVER fly airplanes into buildings" Sure condi.
To carting off against federal law evidence of a crime scene, to not ever indicting Osama for the crime, to Osamas family being in business with the bush's for YEARS, and the benevolent Carlyle Group. Whos the fool? ME??? I dont think so. I got a secret for ya. "THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES"!!
So you go on thinkin what you think, I think your extremely naive, and I will go on thinkin what I do, and you can call me paranoid all you want.
293 - Dr Dreadful
Thats my opinion thats all.
You keep saying that, Pablo, as if adding that caveat somehow sets you apart from everyone else. Of course what you write here is your opinion: on a blog like this, what else would it be?
We take it as a given that what Dave, Clavos and the rest write is their own opinion too. They don't need to advertise the fact.
A politician doesn't stand up to make a speech and preface it with "In my opinion..." either, and nor does a debating captain. Style-wise, it's actually very amateurish and clumsy to qualify an argument that way.
294 - STM
I don't believe the US needed any excuse to go to war against Iraq, particularly. I don't necessarily agree with it all, but what excuse did they need?
I lived in Iraq as a kid, and Iraqis I remain in contact with have told me that they wanted to greet the coalition as liberators.
Remember, with Iraq, despite alliances of convenience made by the US with people like Saddam, you are talking about a murderous regime that had a few really nasty party tricks - like feeding people feet-first into industrial paper shrdders. Most Iraqis lived in absolute fear of the Baathists. The real resistance to coalition occupation came in the aftermath, when secular nationalists appaled by incidents like Abu Ghraib and the US conduct of the "peace" took up arms for very different reasons than did the islamic fudamentalists.
There was another incident early in the piece that caused some problems. Despite the fact the US troops were ordered not to wave the flag - literally - in Baghdad, an American soldier climbed a statue of Saddam near the Palestine Hotel and covered Saddams's head with the Stars and Stripes. Iraqis were crestfallen by that and one handed the troops and Iraqi flag to put up with it.
This is the kind of stuff many Americans still don't understand. Whether intended or not, and I'm sure it wasn't, an action like that gives the signal: "We're conquerors - here to rule over you". However, had they put the old pre-baathist Iraqi flag up, it would have signalled: "We're liberators - here to free you". Too late, damage done ...
So it's what happened afterwards that really caused problems - and at Abu Ghraib in particular. Probably the greatest piece of US military incompetence in American history was to put a bunch of reservists from Small Town, Doodad County, USA in charge of one of the most politically sensitive missions in history (many of those people hadn't been outside their own state prior to going to Iraq).
Yes, I do know about the Gulf of Tonkin, and I do know also that FDR, while conscious that an attack on the US might be imminent, also wasn't 100 per cent sure of when or how it might launched, nor where despite the warnings.
The other piece of historic US military incompetence was that despite knowing that a Japanese attack on the US might be imminent, the Pearl Harbour garrison decided to ignore "them new-fangled radar" warnings about the approaching Japanese air attack.
I'm also aware that Winston Churchill sacrificed Coventry to a devastating German air raid during the blitz on Britain, because not to have done so would have tipped off the Germans that the Poms had broken their ULTRA codes.
However, all of those things have since come out in the wash.
Nothing's been revealed about 9/11 except for what we've known all along - that a pack of dangerous, fanatical idiots launched an attack on the US and used hijacked jets to achieve their aims.
The rest of it is just so-called "truth" and conspiracy theory - which, sadly, no matter how much some people want to believe it, just doesn't make it fact.
You'll never convince me Pablo ... I've seen what I've seen, which is more than most who weren't actually working on the ground on that day, and I believe what has been presented about 9/11 is the truth.
That doesn't mean you should trust the US government though on everything. There's plenty of history that suggests you should be sceptical.
I apply that to all governments, including my own.
But sceptical doesn't necessarily translate to conspiracy.
295 - Pablo
STM,
In my opinion Al qaeda is a myth, I suggest humbly that you take a look at "The Power of Nightmares" a BBC documentary, made by the guy who also filmed a movie on Edward Bernaise, the biggest propagandist in history. Also it wasnt Al qaeda who made the claim it was Osama, AFTER he denied it. If it was him (I have my doubts) he is a liar either way. I do not take the words of liars about anything of substance, thats what LYING is about, no credibility, in fact in a court of law if you can establish someone is a liar, their testimony dont count.
I submit this url audio link to you STM pertaining in particular to the Moslem Brotherhood, by Mr. Dave Emory who has been exposing and combatting fascism for over 35 years. He is extremely articulate, and well versed in his subject matters. Just listen, you dont even have to read, sit back and listen to something new, that you might now have known about before. I DISLIKE genocide, and murder as much as you do STM, I want the culprits punished, I want to live in a world where people that do such terrible things are held to account. Here is the link it is in realaudio format.
Dave Emory compendium on the Moslem Brotherhood
Dave Emory's main site
By the way I have been listening to this man for over 25 years, oh and by the way he does not believe that the towers collapsed due to a controlled demolition, or a fan or Alex Jones, as I am.
296 - Pablo
Dread,
Your criticism is noted and I agree with it. I will say this however, that Davey frequently represents his opinion as FACT, at least that is how I interpret it, thus I have made a point of referencing my comments as opinions, obviously they are, as are Dave's. Thanks for the advice.
297 - troll
for the experts on the subject -
assume for a moment that conspiracists are correct and the world's political economy is manipulated by a ruling elite 'skull and bones' style...assume that 9/11 was a black op sanctioned by that elite to justify restrictions on liberty...assume that the CFR is tasked with intellectually justifying and selling the program of the ruling elite...assume that some information system is watching your every move monitoring your keypad extrapolating your thoughts...assume that the 'quarantine camps' have already been built along abandoned stretches of old route 66:
are there practical plans of action that conspiracists recommend - ?
Paul - on another issue - while your rants are usually pretty clear your statement: "Sure he has some guys on there that question whether or not 6 million jews were killed. I have no opinion one way or another on that..." is ambiguous
care to clarify what you're talking about - ?
298 - Cindy D
Dan,
A couple of your so called "horses" showed up at my house last night. Now I have this picture as proof of what you are up to. You aren't fooling anyone Dan.
299 - Kyle
Oh and for the record fellas. I dont care if a plane or a missle or a cherry bomb hit the pentagon. I dont care if the planes with Osamas boys inside caused those towers to fall, I still BELIEVE regardless of those particulars that it was an inside job. If they come out tomorrow and show a 60 second clip of a plane flying directly into the pentagon, (as opposed to the 1/4 second clip we were shown on national tv, that showed zilch, and they said here this proves it now!) I still think that the neo-cons planned it and carried it out, particularly with their reference to a new pearl harbor in the PNAC document.
So in other words, you are completely immune to evidence to the contrary, and will believe that it is an inside job no matter what, despite the lack of any real, hard evidence.
And regarding the PNAC document: that's a brilliant point. Because if I was going to stage the mass murder of 3,000 American citizens as part of an attempt to justify a military buildup, the first thing I would do would be to explain the plot in a public document.
See, stuff like that is why Truthers are beyond rehabilitation. How do you cure such a blatant lack of logic and critical thinking?
300 - Clavos
I'm glad to see you're on board with that, Cindy.
I've had some serious misgivings about Dan from the git-go.
I mean, Panama?? Who in their right mind picks the remote reaches of Panama to live unless they're up to no good and hiding something?
Horses.
Yeah, right.
301 - Dave Nalle
I recently exposed the fact on here publicly that my daughter was brutally murdered, and left in a shallow grave for 12 long years. Yes I did notice who offered condolences, and you and Clavy boy showed me just how much you care about others. YES YOU DID. Thank you for showing me your stuff davey boy, and that goes for you too Clavy.
Pablo, I don't like to discuss personal business in this forum. I read the article and as the father of a teenage girl I was touched the tragedy which you and your family must have experienced. However, dropping that bit of information and then following it up here seems to me like a manipulative and exploitative use of the event to gain sympathy. I did not respond in order to avoid saying this, but since you brought it up again, I think it reflects very poorly on your character. Sort of like accusing people of being CIA agents and paid shills. Personal attacks with no basis in fact, generated solely to irritate.
Dave
302 - Dave Nalle
Oh and for the record fellas. I dont care if a plane or a missle or a cherry bomb hit the pentagon. I dont care if the planes with Osamas boys inside caused those towers to fall, I still BELIEVE regardless of those particulars that it was an inside job.
So what you are admitting here is that what I've said all along is correct. That for you, as with most truthers, this is a matter of faith not of reason, and no amount of facts or data or exposures to reality or reasoned arguments will sway you because you're just as irrationally fanatical about your beliefs as any muslim fundamentalist or crazed gay-bashing Phelpser.
Dave
303 - Clavos
Dave,
Is it "Phelpser," or "Phelpsist"?
304 - Cindy D
There is a reason the Cult of Scientology has targeted Ron Paul's followers on You Tube with messages like "find out for yourself" and "get the facts". Whenever you search you tube for "Ron Paul" you will get the scientology ads at what I find to be a significant rate.
What better place to market a cult than among those who don't use critical thinking skills to discern facts from fantasy.
305 - Pablo
No Davey,
The reasons I believe what I do have nothing to do with how the buildings came down, that is what most truthers concentrate on, it has never been my forte.
I think what I do, because of the connections between the bin laden family and the bushes, the difference between the timeline that Cheney was in the bunker, as per Norman Minettas sworn testimony, the PNAC document, the fact that the culprits had top secret codes as was evidenced by Angel is next, the glaring ommissions, and lies of the commmission, what I know about the Moslem Brotherhood, NORAD standing down, the obvious false testimony of NORAD officials, the lies of Condi Rice, the unfolding of a police state apparati, the connections between the CFR and the Rockyfellers with the actual building themselves, Larry Silversteins obvious slip up on PBS, and his reaping of several billion dollars with very little in relationship up front money, hell I could go on all fuckin day.
That is why I do not care how or why the buildings came down. If Osamas boys were in the cockpit, they were in the employ of of their corporate masters.
So the answer to your last post is NO Dave my beliefs have nothing to do with emotions or irrationality, but are based on reason. Nice try though, as you always do try your best to cast doubt on either the mental state or emotional state of those that you argue with, instead of using reason.
As to my personal tragedy, I wan not looking for sympathy, I was relating it in context in one of my comments when it naturally came out. However the fact that you made no mention of it along with your sidekick, showed me something very clear about you guys, which is why I referenced it above.
Are you 100% sure of your position Davey? If you are your a fool with a closed mind. If you are not, have you ever listened to Dave Emory as I have suggested about the Moslem Brotherhood? Have you ever picked up and read a book such as Tarpleys's? You are the one with the closed mind bucko, not me. You certainty only shows me your complete ignorance, and/or shilling in this matter. If your mind was any more closed, you would be completely ignorant.
Just my two sense worth bucko
Pablo
306 - Pablo
Troll,
Not particularly, the point of that particular post, was to show the lack of character of Mr. Daniel Pipes, and how he had no compunction to smearing a good man's name. Now if Davey boy is going to come along and say that I smeared him, it is not in the same ball park. This is a forum for opinions and oftentimes heated debate. As he frequently talks down, and misrepresents others, I respond in kind.
I again make the same challenge however, anyone out there that is interested, show me ONE instance of Mr. Rense condoning, approving, liking, or in any way supportng Nazis, I would like to see it. However I know no such information exists, because he is as anti nazi as I am.
Do I believe there was a holocaust? You bet I do. Do I believe that Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, and others were rounded up, held worse than caged animals, and gassed? You bet I do. Some people question (I am not particularly interested) it, that by definition does not make them nazi lovers. It means they question official history, which I will always support, and additionally will defend those that would even say that (for instance) the american indians were never given smallpox. I do not believe that, but I will defend their right to express their opinion of history no matter how much I might disagree with it, unlike those fascists in Canada and parts of Europe, that put someone in jail for stating their opinion, that should send chills down the spines of all of us freedom lovers.
I wanted to add a few more reasons about 9/11. The fact that the Pakistani intelligence agency had been thouroughly infiltrated and controlled by the CIA for years, and that there were credible reports of the head of that agency personally wiring Mohammed Atta money prior to the attack, coupled with the fact that on the morning of 9/11 Senator Phill Graham, and former head of the CIA were having breakfast with this same man, also leads me to believe that this was an inside job.
Anyone who knows anything about politics knows that the Pakistanis CREATED the Taliban. These are a small part of why I do not care about how the buildings came down as a criteria for my beliefs.
Almost all of the wars that have been started in the last 100 years were started with provocations, indeed false flag operations, to generate fear and support among the populous. As I have stated categorically, I may be wrong, will Davey make the same claim? Methinks not, and I am the one with a closed mind, and irrational. Methinks not.
Dave if your not a paid shill, you ought to be, as 9/11 is only one issue of the day that I have seen you use character assassination, berating, and leading people astray on a constant basis. Whether it is with Dr. Paul, or the FED, or the CFR, or the Constitution, you are always there putting your dirty little two cents in, and NEVER admitting as I have on numerous occasions that you are wrong. As I have said I have never been fooled by YOU bubba, you have no compunction over a million innocent people being slaughtered in your name. You have no problem with tin pot dictators in other countries, as you yourself have said. This is why I have said that I think you are a shill, and if your not you should be. Although I never heard back from Badnarik, about the CFR, I would bet that he more agrees with me than you, about the FED too, and more than likely about 9/11.
You try to present me as a lunatic fringe, when in point of fact millions and millions of americans do not believe that the government is telling the truth about 9/11, but DAVEY does!! Oh yes he does, lock, stock, and barrel. You go boy.
307 - Cindy D
Pablo,
Any chance you would be interested in answering the question troll posed @#297?
Assuming everything you are saying is true:
are there practical plans of action that conspiracists recommend - ?
308 - Kyle
So what it comes down to, is that Pablo, in the absence of ANY hard, physical evidence, clings to a laundry list of truther talking points that were all debunked YEARS ago (some, like the PNAC document and Silverstein's "slip up" are particularly hilarious, because they rely on a belief that the evil conspirators are so incompetent that they routinely announce their real intentions in public, either on television or in a publicly available policy document). Thus is the mind of a truther. Just like flat-earthers, moon hoax believers, or Holocaust deniers, they rely on faith and preconceived notions of the nature of government and power to justify their accusations and beliefs, rather than hard physical evidence.
309 - Pablo
Cindy,
Practical plans hmmm. I do not know about other coinspiracy people particularly. What I recommend? Well since I obviously think that the voting boxes are rigged, and have said so on numerous occasions, that is not an option. Calling a spade a spade (no kylie i wasnt referring to black people) is a start.
Demanding through whatever means you can muster, accountability for our public officials is another. I particularly like the folks over at loosechange.org, who go out in the street and contront various public officials and globalists with cameras, then post them on youtube. I also like how they demonstrated outside of the Bilderberg conference in Chantilly VA a few weeks ago.
I dont have the answers quite frankly, and I am doing everything on a personal level of ex-patriating soon, as quite frankly I am tired of swimming upstream, and fighting what seems to be a losing battle. I want to live out the rest of my life in another place, enjoy some sunsets, have some romance if I am lucky. So no Cindy I do not have the answers, and never implied or said that I did. I believe the vast majority of people particularly in this country are sheeple, and make the mistake of thinking the government is there to either help them or protect them, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Supposing Cindy, that you subscribed to some or most of what I have been saying, hypothetically that is, what would you suggest doing?
Kyle,
Your debunkers have all been debunked numerous times by people far more articulate and knowledgeable than me. Silverstein's gaffe, was blatantly obvious, "pull it" does not refer to firefighters, these were human beings, not ITS, he reaped billions of dollars for a hundred million dollar investment. There are visual recorded countdowns available online of them counting down to building 7 collapsing.
PNAC and the neo-cons behind it with reference toT a Pearl Harbor like attack needed for their agenda to proceed speaks for itself. They got what they needed. As to Saddam's quest for weapons of mass destruction, there is not a country on the face of the planet that does not seek them, either overtly or covertly. How ironic it is that my county is the only one to ever use them, and particularly against civilians. The particular strain of anthrax came directly out of the Army's biological warfare institute at Ft Detrick Maryland, that also is a fact, but they just cant quite catch the culprits. Sure. This was not only a terrorist attack, but one of the highest order, sent directly to legislators, Daschle, and Leahy.
Just yesterday, Gore Vidal came out publicly and said that Bush had ended the USA as a Republic, I concur. You apparently dont. Each to his own bubba.
310 - Pablo
Oh and Kyle, if you would like direct evidence that "pull it" is a demolition term, I can provide that too, but first do your own homework on it, as I have, and I am talking about demolition sites, that deal specifically with that industry, not conspiracy sites.
311 - Kyle
"Demanding through whatever means you can muster, accountability for our public officials is another. I particularly like the folks over at loosechange.org, who go out in the street and contront various public officials and globalists with cameras, then post them on youtube. I also like how they demonstrated outside of the Bilderberg conference in Chantilly VA a few weeks ago."
LOOOOL
So, public harassment and posting videos on YouTube is your plan. The revolution is nigh!
Bahahahahahahahahaha
312 - Kyle
"Your debunkers have all been debunked numerous times by people far more articulate and knowledgeable than me. Silverstein's gaffe, was blatantly obvious, "pull it" does not refer to firefighters, these were human beings, not ITS, he reaped billions of dollars for a hundred million dollar investment. There are visual recorded countdowns available online of them counting down to building 7 collapsing."
- Silverstein did NOT reap billions of dollars. He is required to REBUILD on the sites, which will cost him far more than the insurance payout he received (he has also had to pay the lease on the land in the meantime). He has lost a substantial amount of money overall due to the attacks.
- "Pull it" referred to the firefighting operation. The collapse was anticipated and the firefighters pulled back from the building, which is why not one single person died when the building collapsed.
- You are contending that not only did Silverstein somehow have the authority to give a demolition order to a fire department, but that he admitted this on television.
- Several other WTC building were pulled (which, btw, means "pulled down with cables", not "blown up") to prevent an eventual collapse, and that fact is widely known and not hidden at all.
In short, your talking points are all completely ridiculous, which is why only a small fringe group of people believe them. But whatever, have fun in your fantasy world where everything is under the control of evil forces beyond our power to stop.
I wonder whatever happened to that Tom deSabla guy. I wonder what he thinks of all this...
313 - Kyle
"Kyle,
Your debunkers have all been debunked numerous times by people far more articulate and knowledgeable than me."
Let me guess: people like David Ray Griffin, Steven Jones, Judy Woo[d], and Jim Fetzer? Are those the kinds of people you look to for rational and critical analysis of events?
314 - Dave Nalle
Just to clear a couple of curious things up. I notice that Pablo has taken to having what appear to be conversations with himself.
On the 9/11 issue he suddenly started declaring that he didn't use the collapse of the towers as evidence of conspiracy or controlled demolition, despite the fact that no one here attempted to challenge his beliefs on that basis.
And then he strangely told us we had to defend rense.com despite the fact that no one but him on this thread had ever brought the site up.
It's like he lives in a different reality.
Dave
315 - Pablo
Yes I do Dave, thank you. The actual reference howerver had to do with one of your favorite debunkers Daniel Pipes, who has no compunction about smearing a good man's name.
316 - Clavos
The wheels are starting to come off...
317 - Dave Nalle
Um, Pablo. I've mentioned Daniel Pipes, or at least his book, a sum total of one time several months ago. How does that establish this profound relationship between us which you seem so obsessed with?
Dave
318 - Al Barger
Look Nalle- Pablo is on to your game. Refresh my memory. He's a Ron Paul supporter? A Bircher perhaps? Or just an independent nutjob, which is of course a position with which I personally could readily identify.
319 - Upset
I'm upset, Ron Paul did not even appear on the ballot in california and there was no place to write his name in. WHAT A SCAM!!!