Ron Paul supporters continue to push their candidate and their issues, but hostility and frustration within the GOP is growing.
Beneath the still surface of the apparently secure nomination of John McCain as the Republican candidate, supporters of Ron Paul are still fighting the system and doing what they can to influence the process. It appears to be an uphill battle, with many of their efforts devolving into little more than delaying tactics and spreading chaos, and in many cases generating a hostile backlash from the party establishment which is harming efforts to move the party in a more pro-liberty direction.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments226 - Pablo
Tom,
Oh and dont forget TIN FOIL HAT, oh yeah and PARANOID, they just love that one! They love to dish it out, but run for cover or comments editor when someone gives it back to em. Typical hypocrites.
Let me illustrate a classic example with Davey boy, he calls those of us that question what happened on 9/11 conspiracy theorists in a negative context, however he subscribes to another conspiracy, you know the one where they removed all the evidence contravening federal law on 9/11 that some guys in a cave in Afghanistan planned and carried out the most successful attack on our soil in history.
The hypocrisy of these guys knows no bounds.
I pull up a chair and wait for the fireworks.
227 - Tom deSabla
Can we not dispense with the issue of Dave Nalle's veracity with this one quote?
"Last I checked, my federal reserve notes were exchangeable for things like televisions and food and my electric bill - all of which have been relatively stable in value for decades."
***
Again, the master obfuscator ducks the argument that he is supposedly responding to - this quote of mine:
"Only if the note is guaranteed exchangeable for something real, at some stable rate of exchange, over time, can it justly escape the label of being a "fiat currency."
Ok, let's be clear - Nalle isn't really quibbling with this definition of mine. Yet. What he is doing for now is trying to imply, without actually saying it outright, that our present currency meets the definition.
But, again, notice the subtle changes when he spits it back out...
I said a non-fiat note must be GUARANTEED to be exchangeable for something real, at some stable rate of exchange, over time.
He says that, last time he checked, his "federal reserve notes were exchangeable for things like televisions and food and my electric bill - all of which have been relatively stable in value for decades"
So they were exchangeable - we'll give him that, but they were not and are not guaranteed to be exchangeable at a stable rate.
That is what a gold and silver standard was - the money itself was redeemable for actual gold and silver at a guaranteed rate of exchange.
That, of course, is not what Nalle is describing; he's merely saying that people have always accepted his FR notes, and that food, tv's and energy have been "relatively" stable in "value"
"last time he checked."
How many "outs" does he give himself here?
Why does he say "value" and not price when discussing his electric bill and his food? It's weird, and I think it's part of his defenses that he's developed over the years.
That's why whenever someone tries to call him on what he says, he always says, "I didn't say that" because he didn't - well, not exactly.
He's such a weasel-worder.
In any case, can't we all agree that TV prices are not really the issue here? Food and energy are how we live - and their prices HAVE NOT "remained relatively stable for decades," as Nalle claims,
unless he means "relative" to a rocket ship powering into space.
He must know about the inflation in food and energy prices, because he can't be rich enough that he never buys his own food or gas, or pays his own bills.
These rising food and energy prices are not a matter of opinion - they are chart-popping, wallet-busting reality - everywhere.
Dave Nalle, stripped of his weasel-worded deniability clauses, says that food and energy prices have been stable for decades when they haven't, and that our money isn't really fiat money when it so obviously is.
It is clear that he MUST know better.
Isn't that lying?
228 - Pablo
Well at the very least weasling something he is an expert at. :)
229 - troll
(Tom - I called Paul a whore...just for the record
and I meant it in the best possible way)
230 - Pablo
Troll,
Yep and your just a nameless troll hiding under the "bushes" where u belong fella.
231 - Tom deSabla
Whatever, troll, we can fill the gap with plenty of other pejoratives if we need to prove that point again. I'm not really in the mood right now to apologize to the Nalle crew for accidently attributing your word to them,
but I'm sorry I didn't give you proper credit, ok?
If you're one of that crew, then please, talk to me, not down to me. Prove me wrong if you can; but if you can't, be decent and admit it. Learn something. Don't try to belittle me using lies and abuse like Dave and especially Clavos have done.
You already know what will happen if you do.
232 - troll
Tom - I refer you to #170
233 - Tom deSabla
troll, you said:
"take a look at trends in coal and nuclear reactor exports for examples - not to mention 'expertise' and 'personal services' at something like $47 billion/year"
Listen, I think it's wonderful if we export more, if we are, but there aren't a whole lot of American jobs being produced by exporting coal and nuclear reactors. I'm not saying our companies shouldn't be exporting; I'm saying that there are only a few industries doing it, and it's mostly things like planes, and military stuff.
And some things we don't even really make here, but that are made by U.S. companies, so it gets counted as an export.
As for coal, and nuclear, we're going to need our coal ourselves soon if we don't get busy building our own nuclear reactors right here at home.
I don't really see exporting coal as a long-term export growth sector that will benefit the average American worker, do you?
I don't know how beneficial this growth in personal services and "expertise" is either, because, unless our personal services are better and cheaper than the other guy's, I don't see some great rebound coming from that sector either.
The thing about expertise, is that once other people get to see it enough, they can do it too. The Chinese proved that when they stalked our carrier group in the Pacific recently. Also, our computer expertise - now most of the customer service and programming work is done by non-Americans or offshore.
The point is, troll, our problems come from too much government, in every area of life.
If you don't realize that, then we may not have common ground to start from. Exports notwithstanding, we cannot rebuild a dynamic economy with federal state and local governments sitting on our fucking chests like they are and increasing the money supply like they have - we'll never get up off the ground.
You have to realize this to credibly discuss anything political, really. The size and scope of government that we have now is simply unsustainable, and increasing exports, (to the extent they are actually increasing in real terms) while nice and all, is simply irrelevant to that overarching fact and all the dire implications that flow from it.
Go to Daily Reckoning. Read some of their stuff, and you'll get a taste of where I'm coming from. They put out several books, including "Empire of Debt."
Exports? A red herring.
The issue of "rising exports" is nothing but a distraction from the very crucial monetary issues that Ron Paul was trying to explain and clarify, and Dave Nalle is trying to obfuscate.
By the way, what do you think of Clavos lying about his precious export fact sheet numbers being adjusted for inflation?
Don't you condemn that?
234 - Dr Dreadful
Tom, I hope you don't use that kind of language in the Washington Times, or wherever it was you said you write for.
Since you seemed to be wondering, there's nothing in our comments policy that says you can't lie. It is a commonly-used, albeit unethical, debate strategy, as our 'betters' in Washington know. Someone caught lying in Congress will usually be spanked on the wrist (and tacitly applauded), whereas a Congressperson who was to call one of his fellow elected representatives a witless &^$#ing bozo with a brain the size of a gnat's @#$% would likely be thrown out of the Capitol for a few days or weeks to think about what he did.
Similarly, we encourage - but do not, except in extreme circumstances, enforce - a certain level of civility in the comments space. This doesn't penetrate to some people, as witness this particular thread, although Pablo is usually savvy enough to know just how close to the line he can step. You, Tom, do not appear to be quite that smart, and so I warn you again to watch your step, or you will start to see your comments being rather heavily edited.
Cheers,
Assistant Comments Editor
235 - Pablo
Dread,
I took my lessons from Dave.
236 - Tom deSabla
Really?
(yawn)
Well...I guess I could stop cursing...
We'll see.
It does look a bit like you're taking sides.
Insulting me, aren't you? Well, then...
Frankly, I don't care much for what you say, Mr./Ms. Assistant comments editor, and pray don't concern yourself with how I write for the Washington Times. Unlike you, their editors have always treated me with dignity and respect.
I just know this - if you start censoring me for speaking the truth and denouncing the proven liars lurking on your board with your obvious approval, you can take your little blog and stuff it right down the toilet.
Ya got me?
I don't need you.
237 - Pablo
Tom,
I hope you stick around, as I like your comments, and your engaging writing style.
238 - Dave Nalle
As to why I called Dave a liar - I called him a liar because he essentially denied any MSM persecution of Ron Paul.
Tom, you throw the world 'liar' around without apparently understanding the meaning of the word. For someone to be a liar they need to knowingly make a statement which is untrue. I have yet to see any evidence which doesn't support my assertion that Paul got about the right amount of coverage for a candidate polling at 2-3% nationwide - maybe more than was proportional, even. In fact, he got more coverage than other candidates polling at the same level like Kucinich or Gravel. Show me a statistical analysis which shows Paul getting less coverage than a third tier candidate deserved and I'll admit to being mistaken.
Your problem here is that you have a romanticized view of the Paul candidacy and it leads you to a fanciful view of how he should have been treated by the media. The problem is that if you put aside the romance and wishful thinking, the facts don't support your viewpoint.
Please. For someone so knowledgeable, and a libertarian to boot, to NOT ADMIT that Ron Paul got screwed? The evidence is everywhere. I myself provided the source "the Project for Excellence in Journalism." Nalle said he found the evidence to be "pretty sketchy" and I called him a liar.
I've looked at the data at the Project for Excellence in Journalism - at least what I could find since you didn't provide a link. Almost none of their analysis includes Paul, and those assessments which do include information on him as an afterthought. The only story I can find that even mentions Paul covers a single week in February and barely mentions him. They really are guilty of neglecting Paul, even if the rest of the MSM isn't.
The truth is that if you do a search for any candidate you'll find that his advocates are whining about not enough media coverage or negative media coverage. Paul's hardly alone. And some of them have some pretty good statistics to back up their claims.
Plus everyone who's tried to do an analysis has done it slightly differently, and the results vary greatly based on when the analysis was done and what media sources were included. When Paul had his big fundraising events he got a hell of a lot of MSM coverage. At other times he didn't. But what's consistently true is that he didn't get LESS coverage than other candidates polling at about the same level.
Or do some research yourself. Do a search on google news - not the web, just the news section which is mostly sources in the MSM. Do a search for the entire year of 2007. Here are the results:
Barack Obama 65,900
Hillary Clinton 65.000
John McCain 41,000
John Edwards 37,600
Mitt Romney 36,100
Rudy Giuliani 31,600
Joe Biden 22,300
Fred Thompson 16,100
Bill Richardson 15,900
Mike Huckabee 15,300
Ron Paul 10,200
Kucinich 8090
Mike Gravel 6370
Based on this, the guy who ought to be complaining is Mike Huckabee, who did pretty
well in the Republican primary, yet had less
press coverage than people who dropped out without winning a delegate. As for Paul, his coverage seems about right. Or maybe a bit generous. McCain outpolled him 10 to 1 or more yet only got 4 times the media coverage.
And then take a quick look at the months of December and January when Paul really hit his stride as far as fundraising and advertising. McCain has 27,300 mentions, Paul has 7,700. Huckabee had 23,400 mentions. Romney had 27,200. As a percentage that breaks down like this:
Paul: 9%
Huckabee: 27%
Romney: 31%
McCain: 31%
Paul had a higher percentage of the media coverage than he got in any of the polls in that period and comparable with the best showings he had in the popular vote in any state.
And don't even try to argue that the media coverage was negative. Check some of the articles if you want to duplicate my searches. They were generally very positive.
Dave
239 - Guy Fawks
Nalle,
Get it right. McCain got four times the "zionist controled media coverage!" Paul's campaign was intended to benefit Americans whereas McCains campaign is about an endless middle-eastern war. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor. Please leave out the petty insults, Guy, it demeans the debate and yourself]
240 - Kyle
Hahahaha... I see Pablo is not only a truther, but a racist one at that, who is still parroting the "some guys in a cave" talking point from years ago. Are you not going to disavow such disgusting rhetoric from your most vocal supporter here, Mr. deSabla? After all, you're smart enough not to believe in that nonsense... right?
241 - Kyle
Re: Fawks' latest post:
It seems deSabla has an anti-Semitic tin-foil-hatter on his side as well as a 9/11 Truther. No wonder he identifies with Ron Paul.
242 - Dr Dreadful
@ #236:
Just for the record, Tom, I was not insulting you. In saying that you were not as smart as Pablo on this thread, I was not denigrating your intelligence but merely making an observation that you are not as adept as he is at gauging and testing the limits of what is acceptable on BC.
In choosing to have a hissy fit in response to my friendly warning, you've pretty much confirmed my assessment of you.
243 - Dr Dreadful
@ #240:
Kyle, in all fairness, I believe Pablo was referring to the incident in 2003 wherein the combined might of the US armed forces spent a few days pounding the shit out of a cave system in Tora Bora in the belief that bin Laden was holed up there.
Don't really see what's racist about that.
244 - Kyle
"...that some guys in a cave in Afghanistan planned and carried out the most successful attack on our soil in history"
That was the statement made. That those who planned and executed the attacks were just "some guys in a cave", rather than college educated, highly trained terrorists. That mischaracterization is thrown around willy nilly by the Troof movement in an attempt to paint the hijackers as incompetent, primitive patsies who could not possibly have been the brains behind the operation. I call that racist.
245 - Pablo
Kyle,
Call it what you will, I never made reference to skin color which is what constitutes racism bubba.
I call it extremely naive of those of you that think that the pentagon's airspace could ever be penetrated like that.
By the way if ANYONE trained them it was our own intelligence agencies. How come no demotions? How come no responsibility, other than to create another agency with the label "homeland" security.
For the record Kylie, do you recall anyone in your immediate family, or friends or acquaintances EVER hear the US called das Homeland before 9/11? I sure didnt.
IF and I say IF Bin Laden was responsible, my opinion is that he did it in conjunction with not only his family, but in the employ of his families business partners here in the good ole USA.
You call me paranoid, I call you naive. You have your opnion and I have mine, since neither of us were the perpetrators, it is all just conjecture anyways, unfortunately I do not think that you have the humility to admit the obvious.
246 - Dr Dreadful
I call it extremely naive of those of you that think that the pentagon's airspace could ever be penetrated like that.
Pablo, the aircraft couldn't have taken more than a few seconds to make it all the way across the Pentagon's airspace and into the side of the building.
Compare that to the minutes it would have taken to realize that there was a threat, get the message to the airfield, get crews into planes, get the planes taxied and airborne and flown to the Pentagon.
Simple math.
247 - Clavos
But it doesn't fit the conspiracy scenario, Doc...
248 - Kyle
Pablo,
If you think I haven't heard every single one of your arguments a million times, then YOU are the naive one. Needless to say they are all completely ludicrous and baseless, and rely on paranoia in place of knowledge and rational thought.
But maybe you expected Flight 77 to have been shot down by the secret underground SAM launchers scattered around the Pentagon's front lawn. Lol.
249 - Pablo
big YAWN for ya Kyle, try using more than one or two sentences, as your like a broken record. I do know however that it makes you sleep better at night denigrating me. Sweet dreams baby. Uncle Sam is keepin ya all safe and cozy, no worries, slumber time.
250 - Kyle
Just to point out more of the sheer unimaginable idiocy of Pablo's remark about "Pentagon airspace": there is a fucking AIRPORT like a quarter of a mile from the Pentagon.
251 - Pablo
Kyle,
Almost two sentences this time! and with a fuckin too dude! You go boy.
252 - Pablo
Oh and on the subject of 9/11 did any of you out there catch the unhonorable Senator Hatch talk about guys like me today? It truly made my day. He even used the tin foil hat term too, and compared those that are criticizing the big brother FISA bill with "tin foil hat" guys that think 9/11 was an inside job. I tell ya comin straight from the horses mouth, put a big ole smile on this boys face.
Somethin tells me also, (I know I like to conjecture alot) that Kylie boy just adores someone like that fascist Hatch. Talk about taking innocuousness as the face of evil, Hatch take the cake.
I am still smiling :) :) :)
253 - Kyle
Since we have derailed Dave's comments board quite a bit now, I'd like to invite Pablo to do his best job of convincing me that 9/11 was indeed an "inside job" in private. Feel free to email me [personal contact info deleted] and show me the shocking evidence you've amassed. I can't wait to be shocked - SHOCKED! - and amazed.
[Kyle, I'm afraid we don't allow the posting of personal contact details in the comments space. It's for your own protection as you never know who might be reading...
If you have a personal blog or, as Pablo suggests, a forum you frequent (we have one here at Blogcritics, BTW), feel free to post a link to that and lock horns with him that way.
ASSISTANT COMMENTS EDITOR]
254 - Pablo
RE Pentagon on 9/11
Here is a link to a physics forum where just these sort of things are being discussed. Have a look if you are interested, an interesting read if nothing else.
physics forum on 9/11 pentagon attack
255 - Pablo
Kyle,
Well that is quite an admirable invitation ole boy.
First you denigrate me for weeks, calling me every name in the book, full of contempt, arrogance and spite. Now you want me to take PERSONAL time just for you Kylie boy, as if I could give a fuck, what you think about anything. I dont. Do your own damned homework, I not only do not owe you the time of day for an explanation considering your demeaning comments, your obvious closed mind to boot; take a hike.
256 - Clavos
Until I just dropped in, I think you two are the only ones reading this thread this evening.
Kyle, I admire your tenacity, but wonder about your sanity; after all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Put another way, Kyle: there's no point in wrestling with a pig; you both get all muddy, and the pig likes it.
257 - Kyle
"If you have a personal blog or, as Pablo suggests, a forum you frequent (we have one here at Blogcritics, BTW), feel free to post a link to that and lock horns with him that way."
Fair enough. I'd recommend JREF (forums.randi.org), but Pablo will be chewed up and spit out there. That place is the bane of Troofers' existence.
258 - Pablo
Clavy baby,
That was the most clever personal attack yet, I admire you for your cleverness, thats about it however.
cheers
Pablo
259 - Pablo
I do find it amusing however, I have never said that 9/11 WAS and inside job. What I have said and continue to believe is that it is MY opinion that it was. I find it amazing that as everyone has opinions about everything, that those that disagree with my OPINION take such offense at it. I do not KNOW what happened on that fateful day anymore than anyone of you do, and thats a fact! Yet the berating continues unabated. Kind of reminds me of guys that attack gays, that are latent homosexuals.
It is obvious to me that Kyle is having doubts about his own beliefs, so at first he attacks my OPINION, then he suckers up to me as if we are buddies and wants me to take my time out for him personally. I write on here for one reason fellas, its a world wide forum, and as such is seen by many people. I could care less what Clavy thinks about the price of peas in China, or that he thinks he is an elite, or that Kyle is having his own doubts about his government, thats his problem not mine.
So you go on attacking Clavy. I would maybe agree with your style, if I said I KNOW what happened on 9/11 and understand your contempt. However since it is only my opinion, the way that you constantly attack me only shows me that you enjoy belittlement. I could care less.
260 - Kyle
And 9/11 was an inside job at the highest levels of our government."
Backpedaling, are we?
261 - Pablo
No dear Kyle,
I more than almost anyone here making posts, use the term IM MY OPINION, unlike Davey boy. And it is my opinion that 9/11 was an inside job. I know you have a hard time comprehending, so I am taking the time out just for you, cuz I know your sensitive, and I most certainly don't want to disturb your delicate self esteem.
As to your charge of racism, which I have already responded to, I hopped over to dictionary.com so that I could give you a clear and concise definition of what this word means, just for YOU Kylie.
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Race has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of these cave dwellers. They have only in the last several decades come out of the stone age, that is not due to their skin color, but has more to do with their culture, and lack of sophisticated technology. If they were whiter than you, I would still be of the same opinion Kylie boy.
I wonder why I detect such rancor from you, I just happen to have a different opinion than you on probably just about everything! However you seem a little bent out of shape by my opinions and politics. I can't say I am sorry, cuz I am not.
I suggest you take a deep breath of fresh air, and fondly remember the last time you had a main squeeze in your arm brother.
cheers
Pablo
262 - Cindy D
Pablo, Pablo, Pablo!!!!!
You seem like a nice person! A person I might like. So stop already! Enough with the conspiracy stuff!
Sure there are conspiracies and sure your government is run by a bunch of horse's asses. And with the utmost certainty I despise W. as much or even more than you do and I think he's insane (though not in a literal sense).
It seems like the government is against you for a lot of better reasons than a conspiracy warrants.
So, become active in something that does some good, for Pete's sake! But the conspiracy thing just comes from a place where there is not any limits based on reason or critical thinking.
You people wind each other up into a fare-thee-well over details that could be explained any number of ways. The people you are listening to are not physicists or physics scholars (in that blog there). Look for some actual physicists or physics scholars is what I advise, instead of a "physics blog" where anyone can post.
That is all for now.
263 - Dan Miller
Cindy D
I must take issue with the following:
Sure there are conspiracies and sure your government is run by a bunch of horse's asses. What do you have against horses? We have nine of them, and they are intelligent, gentle and sweet creatures; every one of them. Please don't refer to them as "bitches" either. We have three of them, and they too are wonderful.
I would suggest alternative terminology. Otherwise, I will be compelled to send PETA after you and, if that doesn't work, then the Intergalactic World Order.
Dan
264 - Cindy D
Damn you Dan!
That's likely because you are aligned with The Conspiracy! You people can't tell the difference between a horse and a horse's ass! If you call those things horses. Whoever heard of a horse that walks upright?
And stop calling me Cindy D dammit! Do I address you as Dan Miller? Not that there is anything wrong with calling me Cindy D. I mean it is my name and all. I mean it's perfectly justified especially if you are a New Universe Order conspiracy person (as I hear that is how they talk).
265 - Cindy D
And apparently hearing things and reading things serves as proof.
Pablo? What do you think?
266 - Pablo
Cindy, Cindy, Cindy,
You seem like the kind of person I might like in person too! I will make a deal with you about me not posting stuff about conspiracies dear.
If you will read either in electronic or printed media, either one of these books in their entirety, I will stop writing about conspiracies for one month!
Fair enough? The books are The "Bilderberg Group", by Daniel Estulin, OR "Tragedy and Hope, a History of the World in Our Time by Prez Clinton's self professed political mentor, and Professor of History at Georgetown University, the late Carrol Quigley. I would recommend the Bilderberg Group however, as it is not 1600 some odd pages like Quigley's is, but only a few hundred. Also I happen to like Mr. Estulin very much personally and correspond with him on occasion, and its much more contemporary.
Theres my offer on the table Cindy. I am not asking you to agree with these authors, only to take the time out to read one of them. I know, I know your are quite sure in your own mind, that such a devious plan bye the ruling elite to take over the world is only in the mind's of delusional and paranoid people. Indulge me dear, and I will stop talking about conspiracies on this site for a month! Imagine, if you will a whole month of not having to see ole Pablo and his ranting about the CFR!!!
btw I have a torrent of Tragedy and Hope I would be happy to post on a site, so that you can download it.
There you have it my offer.
267 - Pablo
Cindy,
Oh yeah one other book I would do it for too. "Synthetic Terrorism" by Webster Tarpley, who also imho wrote the best book ever on the Bush dynasty.
268 - Dave Nalle
Oh yeah one other book I would do it for too. "Synthetic Terrorism" by Webster Tarpley, who also imho wrote the best book ever on the Bush dynasty.
Both published on a mimeograph machine in his mother's basement.
Dave
269 - Dave Nalle
Look for some actual physicists or physics scholars is what I advise, instead of a "physics blog" where anyone can post.
That seems unlikely, since real physicists and engineers just laugh at what Pablo calls 'truth'. It's in the pathology of conspiracy dementia to avoid environments where their assumptions are challenged and to instead just seek reinforcement from other like minded types.
Dave
270 - Cindy D
Okay Pablo, if you say so. But, don't then ask reasonable people why they consider your ideas ridiculous.
271 - Pablo
Cindy,
Oh you mean people such as Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga? Or maybe former Defense Minister of Germany Andreas von Bulow? Or perhaps Arizona State Senator Karen Johnson, who publicly before the Arizona State Senate only last week called for a new investigation on 9/11.
Did you mean those kind of reasonable people dear?
Perhaps you were referring to former CIA employee Ray McGovern, or perhaps you meant member of the Japanese Diet Yukihisa Fujita who has publicly come out in Japan questioning who was behind 9/11.
Or maybe you were referring to the father of Reaganomics former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Paul Craig Roberts?
Reasonable, yes Cindy quite reasonable.
272 - Pablo
Sigh, I guess that means you won't read one of the books. Oh well, can't win em all Cindy dear. :)
273 - Pablo
Dave,
Actually Synthetic Terrorism was published by Progressive Press and was on the best selling list at Amazon.com for well over 6 months bubba.
Oh Dave? How is the shill business going? How is the pay for your line of work anyways? I heard Armstrong Williams made well over a quarter mil for his shilling. I suspect however you get paid considerably less.
Oh and Davey? As far as engineers I put in a lil link for ya with just such people who happen to agree with my analysis, for your criticism. Enjoy Davey. I make money the old fashioned way bubba, I work for it.
Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth.
274 - Pablo
Oh and Dave? If your not getting paid for what you do, you not quite the brightest kid on the block that you present yourself to be bubba. I am sure if you cant find the right url for the boys that pay for that sort of work I can find it for ya :). I want 10% though, I think thats only fair.
275 - Clavos
"Actually Synthetic Terrorism was published by Progressive Press and was on the best selling list at Amazon.com for well over 6 months bubba."
Hmm...
"Amazon.com Sales Rank: #67,538 in Books"